***OFFICIAL*** FIRE JOE DOUGLAS THREAD

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

8 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Why?

Three years into the JD regime do outsiders not see the Jets as an ascending franchise?

Who cares about Jarvis Landry????  Unbelievable what gets people upset around here (everything). 

[TuscanyTile2]

6 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

This is the most clown shoes post ever, if not definitely top 5. 

[oatmeal]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Yeah let’s show a poor pass by our small school rookie QB because?????

The TE’s on the Jets we’re not NFL level players, why is this even a debate?

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Yeah let’s show a poor pass by our small school rookie QB because?????

The TE’s on the Jets we’re not NFL level players, why is this even a debate?

ZW threw many bad passes last year.  Admittedly he looked a lot better the final few games of last year.  No way to know what we have with him just yet.  But the guy you were replying to was referring to that pass.

[oatmeal]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

ZW threw many bad passes last year.  Admittedly he looked a lot better the final few games of last year.  No way to know what we have with him just yet.  But the guy you were replying to was referring to that pass.

No, he was trying to sell me the same bag of turds JD tried to sell us last year, and that’s the fact that these skill position players he brought in were “high upside”  or even good players. 
 

This organization is a joke and when we have 4 wins again next season, I come back in here and see all you flip flops calling for his head.
 

Late to the party like it always is with the green glasses wearing jet fans

[freestater]

36 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I like it when people agree with me. It means that they are also smart.

 

[TuscanyTile2]

5 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

No, he was trying to sell me the same bag of turds JD tried to sell us last year, and that’s the fact that these skill position players he brought in were “high upside”  or even good players. 
 

This organization is a joke and when we have 4 wins again next season, I come back in here and see all you flip flops calling for his head.
 

Late to the party like it always is with the green glasses wearing jet fans

I think we're just trying to find some level of optimism on the team.  I've kind of learned to hope for the best while expecting the worst.

[Fantasy Island]

31 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

We find out a lot about Joe Douglas tomorrow when the FA period begins.

We have space, and a bunch of front loaded contracts that were purposely designed by him to expire next year. There isn’t a player who’ll be available we can’t afford.

Let’s see what he does.

(I’m not expecting much)

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

9 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I think the jury is still out on JD but I think a reasonable defense of him can be made for the past 2 years.  The team was a disaster when he got here.  Last year he got us a brand new QB and drafted offense with his first 4 picks. The year prior he drafted an OL and WR in the 1st 2 rounds.  In other words, he is trying to build the offense.  However, there are only so many draft picks and you don't want to go down the wrong road in FA and get tied up with a bad contract for years. 

This is absolutely the year that the talent level should go up though.  This will be the year we'll see what JD is made of.  I think it's reasonable to say that this offseason is going to be "make-or-break" for JD.  I mean, I do agree that it's pathetic that this franchise never takes a big step forward (like the Bengals did last year after having the #1 OA pick 2 years prior).  After all of our bad years and top draft picks we still have holes all over the place and are a 4 win team.  No Jet fan is happy about that.  But in theory, we've got a GM in here now who is planning on building the team according to his vision.  We've suffered through 2 years of house cleaning.  Now it's time to see progress.  Not saying we're going to be a contender this year but we need to take real strides.  If we don't then we might very well be on to the next GM in short order.  A lot of this is going to fall on ZW of course.  I'm on the fence on the guy but I'm glad he gave us some reason to have hope at the end of the year.  He definitely looked more confident the last few games.  

The moment Chris Johnson handed a six year contract to JD, we should have known that this was coming. The message was LOUD and CLEAR. This was going to take some time. For the first time in the Johnson regime, we have a GM who is trusted with football operations. The fact that JD convinced the Johnson's to hand over the keys is a testament to JD and the confidence that they have in him. Woody has been mostly invisible and silent. He went from meddling owner to goofy Twitter fan boy. 

Whether or not JD succeeds is up for debate, but you cannot deny that he has positioned his team for the chance to succeed with just a few key moves. Another 2021 type of draft, and several wins in the free agent market can propel this team into playoff contention. Another 2020 type draft, and JD is looking for a job as Director of Chad Trades for a different team. 

This part is going to make some eye rolls like a slot machine. Without a playoff mandate from the Johnson's, we might be looking at one more season of careful spending in free agency. I do not expect any big splashes this year, but I do expect three to four signings in the Corey Davis and Carl Lawson range. With a clean cap, we can expect more free agent signings than last year. The 2022 off season is the first that actually belongs to him. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

20 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

The TE’s on the Jets we’re not NFL level players, why is this even a debate?

You are correct. It is not a debate. Tyler Kroft and Ryan Griffin are NFL caliber players. If you said that Yeboah isn't an NFL TE, I would agree with you. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

31 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

This is the most clown shoes post ever, if not definitely top 5. 

You are EXCELLENT at projection. You should be a politician. Your take that Tyler Kroft and Ryan Griffin are not NFL TEs is top 2 in all time bad takes on this board.

[oatmeal]

5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I think we're just trying to find some level of optimism on the team.  I've kind of learned to hope for the best while expecting the worst.

A team that hasn’t won anything meaningful in 50 + years deserves no optimism 

A losing GM who cant draft impact players only jags, can’t identify free agents and can only trade talent away does not deserve the benefit of the doubt period.

At the end of the day everything else is fluff, you are what you’re record is 

Excuse me if I don’t expect wins from complete losers ?‍♂️

[jetstream23]

 

[oatmeal]

1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Love everything here but the last part, clearly JD knows that and he’s spent money (Lawson, JFM) but it’s always the wrong guys.

As far as skill position players there is not much and there will be heavy competition for the few decent ones, so tbh what we really looking at is a skill room full of JAgS and rookies. Much like last year 

[freestater]

7 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

I appreciate the sentiment, but I feel like I've got no reason to believe the last four words. 

[Hex]

I don't get why the same people calling Douglas an idiot and terrible GM for not signing players are also saying that no FA players want to come here because the Jets have sucked for decades

[playtowinthegame]

Joe Douglas needs to trade for players....because the blue chip free agents aren't voluntarily coming to the Jets.

[Joe W. Namath]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

 

One of the best young GMs in the league will be gone from the Jets 10 months from now?  HAHAAHAHAHAAHAHA.  Thats the funniest thing Ive heard in awhile.

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

We FINALLY have a guy who is doing it completely different than any other failure of a GM, and you want him gone because he isn't acting like the guy we just fired.

Makes complete sense. 

At some point you have to try.  

Yes, JD did a nice job of cleaning sh*t up...And accepting losses.  Frankly it's what the team needed to do.  But as some point you have to actually build a roster that can compete.  This is the off-season to truly begin that process - and he seems to still be in tear down mode.

The only thing hard about the tear down is the where-with-all to see it through.  Doesn't take any particular skill-set.  

Question is can he build or more important - does he have the courage to go for it?

[doitny]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

*locked

i tell you it will be quite fun to watch some peoples head explode over the next couple of days every time JD doesnt sign someone that somebody here wants. LOL

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

At some point you have to try.  

Yes, JD did a nice job of cleaning sh*t up...And accepting losses.  Frankly it's what the team needed to do.  But as some point you have to actually build a roster that can compete.  This is the off-season to truly begin that process - and he seems to still be in tear down mode.

The only thing hard about the tear down is the where-with-all to see it through.  Doesn't take any particular skill-set.  

Question is can he build or more important - does he have the courage to go for it?

I hate missing out on Cooper but I get it. 

Most important thing is to hit on draft picks. That’s TBD. 

Free agency will always be about picking and choosing the right ones not just the big names out the gate. 
 

[doitny]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

 

true but we have to take into consideration that he has improved the roster but is just unlucky.

we had 72 mil in cap space on the IR. I think thats most in the NFL. the Rams as a comparison had 11 mil.

we just dont have the depp to cover loses of Lawson, Becton, Joyner and Maye who were expected to be major contributors to this team. so that has to be considered too. plus loses from other major guys like Moore, MC1 and Davis. 

 i believe we would have won 8 games last year if we didnt get so many injuries to so many key players.

[The Crusher]

42 minutes ago, doitny said:

i tell you it will be quite fun to watch some peoples head explode over the next couple of days every time JD doesnt sign someone that somebody here wants. LOL

No WR with a choice will come here. Any other position will just require overpaying. Douglas will likely splash on O line because he thinks it’s safe.

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

true but we have to take into consideration that he has improved the roster but is just unlucky.

we had 72 mil in cap space on the IR. I think thats most in the NFL. the Rams as a comparison had 11 mil.

we just dont have the depp to cover loses of Lawson, Becton, Joyner and Maye who were expected to be major contributors to this team. so that has to be considered too. plus loses from other major guys like Moore, MC1 and Davis. 

 i believe we would have won 8 games last year if we didnt get so many injuries to so many key players.

How many years of being "unlucky" start to make us think that luck might not be involved?

I seriously want to challenge our collective thinking here.  This isn't to be argumentative, but simply to help us open our eyes to the realistic situation the Jets are in with the team and the GM.

1.  This is Joe Douglas' organization now.  From top to bottom.  It's true that he's had only two Drafts and two FA periods, but more than 95% of the roster is his when you consider trades, UDFA signings, July/August FA signings of cut players, etc.  This is his roster from top to bottom including the Practice Squad with only a few notable legacy guys like Mosley and Quinnen Williams.  The Jets are saying goodbye to two more legacy guys right now in Jamison Crowder and Marcus Maye (who is also technically a "JD guy" because Douglas chose to keep him on a franchise tag last year).  Bottom line, this roster his completely his.

2. The QB of the Jets was handpicked by the GM.

3. The HC of the Jets was handpicked by the GM.

4. The health and performance department, team doctor and training staff was built by the GM and underwent a significant restructuring PRIOR to the 2021 season.

5. The team has undergone significant change at most positions including the key ones of HC, QB and others.  It's only been one season under the new regime.

 

The above are facts.  Now, some opinions...

1. The Jets are in a much, much better position with regard to salary cap, Draft picks and team resources right now than they possibly have ever been.  They have the ammo to do almost anything they want.  Not since the "4 Aces" draft with Pennington, Abraham, Ellis and Becht have the Jets been so loaded so early in a Draft.

2. IF the QB turns out to be a long-term starter then the Jets are in good shape and the trajectory is upward.  Even if Zach turns out to be simply an above average but not Top 10 guy (think a Kirk Cousins or Ryan Tannehill type) the Jets have positioned themselves with enough resources to plug holes, make significant talent additions at more than one spot, and fix problems such as a guy busting at a critical positions (ex. IF Becton heads south the Jets can absolutely buy or draft their way out of that issue given the fiscally responsible position they find themselves in).  This means they'll be in position to consistently compete year-in and year-out.

3. The injury problems have become more than a coincidence.  I don't know why.  JD and the Jets don't seem to know why.  I read a story a few months ago about the Jets diving into some serious analysis and trying to figure out why they have had an inordinate amount of injuries of a certain type (ex. achilles ruptures).  I've heard the argument that guys on bad teams will prolong their injuries, possibly fake an injury or at least make it seem worst or last longer than it should simply because they're on a team going nowhere that's won 3 games by November.  There's probably some truth to that.  But it doesn't account for all of these issues.  The Jets have been one of, if not the most injured team on a regular basis for several years.  And, it's clear there was some kind of failure to monitor, plan or hold accountable both Becton and the trainers regarding his rehab, diet, etc.

4.  You can't hold JD on a mantle and call him an elite GM while at the same time blaming a continuous losing record on the QB, injuries or an inexperienced HC as if JD has nothing to do with any of those things. As I said above, this his is 100% his baby.  From the just below the owner down to the guys cutting the grass at the Atlantic Health Center, JD either directly controls it or has the most influential input on the who, what, why and how all those things are they way they are.

5.  Simply because some other teams (including the Jets with Rex and Sanchez) have occasionally achieved immediate, first-year success does not mean that should be the expectation.  In most circumstances it takes some time for things to marinate, especially when you have new a QB, a new HC, new systems on both sides of the ball, etc.  But this will be the second season with Saleh and Wilson, and it is absolutely fair to expect this team to start winning with the systems now in place.  Wilson needs to take a big step otherwise this will look like JD's biggest whiff.  Saleh needs to jumpstart this D regardless of its personnel or he will start to look like a whiff as well.  There's no more Tom Brady excuse, the Jets should absolutely be expected to hit .500 this year, especially in the division.

[Hex]

6 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

One of the best young GMs in the league will be gone from the Jets 10 months from now?  HAHAAHAHAHAAHAHA.  Thats the funniest thing Ive heard in awhile.

Is that because you can't hear your own voice?

[doitny]

4 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

How many years of being "unlucky" start to make us think that luck might not be involved?

I seriously want to challenge our collective thinking here.  This isn't to be argumentative, but simply to help us open our eyes to the realistic situation the Jets are in with the team and the GM.

1.  This is Joe Douglas' organization now.  From top to bottom.  It's true that he's had only two Drafts and two FA periods, but more than 95% of the roster is his when you consider trades, UDFA signings, July/August FA signings of cut players, etc.  This is his roster from top to bottom including the Practice Squad with only a few notable legacy guys like Mosley and Quinnen Williams.  The Jets are saying goodbye to two more legacy guys right now in Jamison Crowder and Marcus Maye (who is also technically a "JD guy" because Douglas chose to keep him on a franchise tag last year).  Bottom line, this roster his completely his.

2. The QB of the Jets was handpicked by the GM.

3. The HC of the Jets was handpicked by the GM.

4. The health and performance department, team doctor and training staff was built by the GM and underwent a significant restructuring PRIOR to the 2021 season.

5. The team has undergone significant change at most positions including the key ones of HC, QB and others.  It's only been one season under the new regime.

 

The above are facts.  Now, some opinions...

1. The Jets are in a much, much better position with regard to salary cap, Draft picks and team resources right now than they possibly have ever been.  They have the ammo to do almost anything they want.  Not since the "4 Aces" draft with Pennington, Abraham, Ellis and Becht have the Jets been so loaded so early in a Draft.

2. IF the QB turns out to be a long-term starter then the Jets are in good shape and the trajectory is upward.  Even if Zach turns out to be simply an above average but not Top 10 guy (think a Kirk Cousins or Ryan Tannehill type) the Jets have positioned themselves with enough resources to plug holes, make significant talent additions at more than one spot, and fix problems such as a guy busting at a critical positions (ex. IF Becton heads south the Jets can absolutely buy or draft their way out of that issue given the fiscally responsible position they find themselves in).  This means they'll be in position to consistently compete year-in and year-out.

3. The injury problems have become more than a coincidence.  I don't know why.  JD and the Jets don't seem to know why.  I read a story a few months ago about the Jets diving into some serious analysis and trying to figure out why they have had an inordinate amount of injuries of a certain type (ex. achilles ruptures).  I've heard the argument that guys on bad teams will prolong their injuries, possibly fake an injury or at least make it seem worst or last longer than it should simply because they're on a team going nowhere that's won 3 games by November.  There's probably some truth to that.  But it doesn't account for all of these issues.  The Jets have been one of, if not the most injured team on a regular basis for several years.  And, it's clear there was some kind of failure to monitor, plan or hold accountable both Becton and the trainers regarding his rehab, diet, etc.

4.  You can't hold JD on a mantle and call him an elite GM while at the same time blaming a continuous losing record on the QB, injuries or an inexperienced HC as if JD has nothing to do with any of those things. As I said above, this his is 100% his baby.  From the just below the owner down to the guys cutting the grass at the Atlantic Health Center, JD either directly controls it or has the most influential input on the who, what, why and how all those things are they way they are.

5.  Simply because some other teams (including the Jets with Rex and Sanchez) have occasionally achieved immediate, first-year success does not mean that should be the expectation.  In most circumstances it takes some time for things to marinate, especially when you have new a QB, a new HC, new systems on both sides of the ball, etc.  But this will be the second season with Saleh and Wilson, and it is absolutely fair to expect this team to start winning with the systems now in place.  Wilson needs to take a big step otherwise this will look like JD's biggest whiff.  Saleh needs to jumpstart this D regardless of its personnel or he will start to look like a whiff as well.  There's no more Tom Brady excuse, the Jets should absolutely be expected to hit .500 this year, especially in the division.

i agree what most of what you said. but you cant blame the guy for all the injuries. yes he changed up the way we do that stuff but hes not a doctor right?

listen he just had the best draft since the 4 aces draft. if he puts up another one and we still win 4-5 games then its not him. its either Saleh or most likely Wilson. and i know he drafted Wilson but we as Jet fans should know how hard it is to put 2 good drafts together much less 2 in a row. if the rest of his draft is good and Wilson is not he has to survive that. but we need to know that by this year so if not then next year he gets a new QB. hopefully from a trade or FA. we need to give drafting a QB a break for a while if Wilson doesn't work.

and we got to see how good this offense could be when 3 QBs not named Wilson threw for over 300 yds. well Flacco had 291. if Wilson gets his sh*t together i think JD built a decent offense it was just our defense couldn't handle the injuries

if you dont take into account the injuries which he has no control of and was a problem long before he got here then you risk getting a new GM who could be like Idzik or Mac and think DT and CB are the keys to winning and keep drafting them in the 1st rd. 

i think we all like his philosophy on how to build a team. strong trenches, drafting offense early. i just dont think we can fire him over the injuries. i dont think any team can survive 72 mil on the IR.

then again if he drafts OL for the 3rd year in a row i will be on here kicking his @ss to the curb. LOL

 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

7 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

At some point you have to try.  

Yes, JD did a nice job of cleaning sh*t up...And accepting losses.  Frankly it's what the team needed to do.  But as some point you have to actually build a roster that can compete.  This is the off-season to truly begin that process - and he seems to still be in tear down mode.

The only thing hard about the tear down is the where-with-all to see it through.  Doesn't take any particular skill-set.  

Question is can he build or more important - does he have the courage to go for it?

How did you come to the conclusion that JD is still in tear down mode before free agency began?

[FidelioJet]

39 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

How did you come to the conclusion that JD is still in tear down mode before free agency began?

I didn’t. I’m just concerned he might be. Hoping he’s not.  I’ve been pretty clear about that.  Not coming down on him, still plenty of time. Abd still have faith.  But I am concerned. 
Not making an effort for Cooper worries me. 

[Hex]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I didn’t. I’m just concerned he might be. Hoping he’s not.  I’ve been pretty clear about that.  Not coming down on him, still plenty of time. Abd still have faith.  But I am concerned. 
Not making an effort for Cooper worries me. 

He probably didn't try because he's looking for players that can help long term, and Cooper's contract might be an issue in the long run, even if it isn't right now.

[Hex]

Man I find it funny that despite not doing anything on this forum for multiple months, SAR still doubles the post count of 2nd place in this thread

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

10 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I didn’t. I’m just concerned he might be. Hoping he’s not.  I’ve been pretty clear about that.  Not coming down on him, still plenty of time. Abd still have faith.  But I am concerned. 
Not making an effort for Cooper worries me. 

We don't know if he did or didn't make an effort for Cooper, unless you have inside information. 

JD not acquiring Cooper encourages me. That kind of move is what Mike Maccagnan would have made. 

[Joe W. Namath]

1 minute ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

We don't know if he did or didn't make an effort for Cooper, unless you have inside information. 

JD not acquiring Cooper encourages me. That kind of move is what Mike Maccagnan would have made. 

This is the smartest thing Ive read on this board is some time.  Jet fans hate Mike McCagnan but want nothing more then for Joe Douglas to act just like him.

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

We don't know if he did or didn't make an effort for Cooper, unless you have inside information. 

JD not acquiring Cooper encourages me. That kind of move is what Mike Maccagnan would have made

As for the effort, we do know he didn't think he was worth a 5th round pick - I think it's reasonable to assume he didn't make much of an effort If a 5th round pick is all it would have taken.  Maybe you don't see it that way...but that was my reasoning.

You don't like Cooper as a player, that's fine and fair.  I think you can acknowledge that many people do.  

You share JD's sentiment on him as a player - I don't.  That is all.

 

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

This is the smartest thing Ive read on this board is some time.  Jet fans hate Mike McCagnan but want nothing more then for Joe Douglas to act just like him.

Why is bringing in a 28 year old WR with multiple 1,000 yard seasons a Mike McCagnan move?  

What FA wouldn't be?  What makes something a MM move vs. a JD move?

 

[Joe W. Namath]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

Why is bringing in a 28 year old WR with multiple 1,000 yard seasons a Mike McCagnan move?  

What FA wouldn't be?  What makes something a MM move vs. a JD move?

 

Overpaying other teams problems is a Mike McCagnan move.  There is a reason this guy is on his 3rd team already.