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***OFFICIAL*** FIRE JOE DOUGLAS THREAD


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7 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Joe Douglas put himself in this corner.  You’re making this out to be more about one move (Rodgers), when it is more about the accumulation of moves that got us here in the first place.  This situation is more akin to getting absolutely hammered every single day, for a week straight, and drunkenly maxing out your credit card.  It’s time to pay for the bill, or in this case, the consequences of mismanaging something very important.  Like I said above: no more free passes.  The Jets are going absolutely nowhere of significance with Zach Wilson, Mike White, Ryan Tannehill, Jimmy Garoppolo, etc., under center.  I’m not going to sit here and pretend that I will be satisfied with “improvement” or “progress” anymore.  Neither should anyone else.

Win.  F*cking.  Games.

Don’t.  Collapse.

Make.  The.  F*cking.  Playoffs. (& make noise.  None of that 1 & done BS)

If Joe Douglas didn’t want to have to trade resources or spend money on a QB, he probably should have traded the 2nd overall pick for a King’s Ransom, not drafted Zach Wilson or, at the very least, let the kid sit, get coached up, and come along slowly, like a lot of people here, myself included, wanted if he was dead set on drafting a rookie QB, which he was.

I'm satisfied with 1 & done in the playoffs next year as long as they make a big play for a QB in next year's draft. 

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Just now, maury77 said:

Agree on 99% here, but I wouldn't be shocked if the Jets made the playoffs with Jimmy or Tannehill. 

Jimmy would stun me because that would require him to stay healthy.  Tannehill wouldn’t shock me, but this team has the potential to actually make noise if they get a significant upgrade.  

I’ve always had this mentality, but I don’t even want to make the playoffs if we’re going to, very obviously, get ass-blasted by the Chiefs, Bills, Bengals, or teams of that nature, in the 1st round.

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5 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I'm satisfied with 1 & done in the playoffs next year as long as they make a big play for a QB in next year's draft. 

Replied too quickly, lol.

Adding on to my last post, I’d rather just suck, clean house, and get a better shot at Caleb Williams, or Drake Maye.  I don’t want a repeat of 2021, where we win a few games and are left picking from the guys who are a decent step down.

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Just now, Mogglez said:

Replied too quickly, lol.

Adding on to my last post, I’d rather just suck, clean house, and get a better shot at Caleb Williams, or Drake Maye.  I don’t want a repeat of 2021, where we win a few games and are left picking from the guys who are step down.

Oh, that's what I want too. In that case, just start Zach all season, Jets would be perfectly lined up for Caleb or Drake. 

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29 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Jimmy would stun me because that would require him to stay healthy.  Tannehill wouldn’t shock me, but this team has the potential to actually make noise if they get a significant upgrade.  

I’ve always had this mentality, but I don’t even want to make the playoffs if we’re going to, very obviously, get ass-blasted by the Chiefs, Bills, Bengals, or teams of that nature, in the 1st round.

I feel similarly to an extent, but I think the OL really has to be fixed this year. With all the attention given to the QB discussion, that Douglas (an alleged OL expert) has only 1 above average (AVT) starter on the OL is a stinging indictment of him IMO. 

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7 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Joe Douglas put himself in this corner.  You’re making this out to be more about one move (Rodgers), when it is more about the accumulation of moves that got us here in the first place.  This situation is more akin to getting absolutely hammered every single day, for a week straight, and drunkenly maxing out your credit card.  It’s time to pay for the bill, or in this case, the consequences of mismanaging something very important.  Like I said above: no more free passes.  The Jets are going absolutely nowhere of significance with Zach Wilson, Mike White, Ryan Tannehill, Jimmy Garoppolo, etc., under center.  I’m not going to sit here and pretend that I will be satisfied with “improvement” or “progress” anymore.  Neither should anyone else.

Win.  F*cking.  Games.

Don’t.  Collapse.

Make.  The.  F*cking.  Playoffs. (& make noise.  None of that 1 & done BS)

If Joe Douglas didn’t want to have to trade resources or spend money on a QB, he probably should have traded the 2nd overall pick for a King’s Ransom, not drafted Zach Wilson or, at the very least, let the kid sit, get coached up, and come along slowly, like a lot of people here, myself included, wanted if he was dead set on drafting a rookie QB, which he was.

It was so obvious at the time that a) they should’ve just traded down from 2 and b) if they took Wilson he needed to sit. That 2021 class was loaded too.

Coming out of that with the second pick being a goose egg versus one of those other guys - let alone the additional draft capital they’d get from moving down - sets the franchise back so much. Chase, Waddle, Smith, Sewell, Parsons…

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4 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I can give Moore a pass, but would you consider Carter and Wilson good starters? 

They’re starters.  They’ve started and contributed.  Do they play still, contribute?

As for the QB, most were for Wilson or Fields.  Repeating that Wilson was a whiff, well Fields would have been a whiff too.  Either way you still need a QB.  Just because Fields can run you don’t have one and you’re not winning anything with him, add in he’s injured more than Zach.  Sometimes it works out that way.  

Was it a great draft, no, especially compared to last years draft.  But some have said it sucked. 

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3 minutes ago, derp said:

It was so obvious at the time that a) they should’ve just traded down from 2 and b) if they took Wilson he needed to sit. That 2021 class was loaded too.

Coming out of that with the second pick being a goose egg versus one of those other guys - let alone the additional draft capital they’d get from moving down - sets the franchise back so much. Chase, Waddle, Smith, Sewell, Parsons…

Let's pretend the Jets took the 49ers package. What does the team potentially look like now?

The 49ers dealt the No. 29 pick in 2022 and the No. 28 pick in 2023 to move up from No. 12 to No. 3 in the 2021 draft. They also included a 2022 compensatory third-round choice

2021 pick 12 - Parsons or Slater or AVT

Jets no longer have to trade up for AVT, so they keep picks 23, 66 and 86

2021 pick 23 - Darrisaw, Newsome or Rousseau

Even if they rolled with Darnold, the team could have been loaded going into this offseason and would have been in a prime position to roll the dice on 1 of the QBs available this year. 

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14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

They’re starters.  They’ve started and contributed.  Do they play still, contribute?

As for the QB, most were for Wilson or Fields.  Repeating that Wilson was a whiff, well Fields would have been a whiff too.  Either way you still need a QB.  Just because Fields can run you don’t have one and you’re not winning anything with him, add in he’s injured more than Zach.  Sometimes it works out that way.  

Was it a great draft, no, especially compared to last years draft.  But some have said it sucked. 

Yes, but they aren't good. The Jets need good starters to win games, I'm not saying anything earth shattering here am I?

I'm not rehashing my Fields argument with you anymore. We have a difference of opinion and I'm just going to agree to disagree. 

Also, I'm not arguing that Douglas should be fired. I'm actually trying to be optimistic that the light went off last year in his head and the future will hold more 2022 drafts than what we saw the prior 2 years; however, I'm not willing to overlook what I deem to be glaringly obvious mistakes on his part just because he killed it last year. 

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41 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Yes, but they aren't good. The Jets need good starters to win games, I'm not saying anything earth shattering here am I?

I'm not rehashing my Fields argument with you anymore. We have a difference of opinion and I'm just going to agree to disagree. 

Also, I'm not arguing that Douglas should be fired. I'm actually trying to be optimistic that the light went off last year in his head and the future will hold more 2022 drafts than what we saw the prior 2 years; however, I'm not willing to overlook what I deem to be glaringly obvious mistakes on his part just because he killed it last year. 

They’re starters.  4 starters doesn’t make for a sucky draft.  
As for the QB there is no argument, I was all for either Fields or ZW.  Difference is I’m not going to call Fields a FQB just because he’s not Zach.   So far he’s a running QB who throws for under 150 yards per game and misses a lot of time with injuries.      
If Douglas’ drafts are consistent, the somewhere around the last two he’s a long termGM.  I hope so, continuity would go a long way towards being a successful franchise.  

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1 hour ago, maury77 said:

Let's pretend the Jets took the 49ers package. What does the team potentially look like now?

The 49ers dealt the No. 29 pick in 2022 and the No. 28 pick in 2023 to move up from No. 12 to No. 3 in the 2021 draft. They also included a 2022 compensatory third-round choice

2021 pick 12 - Parsons or Slater or AVT

Jets no longer have to trade up for AVT, so they keep picks 23, 66 and 86

2021 pick 23 - Darrisaw, Newsome or Rousseau

Even if they rolled with Darnold, the team could have been loaded going into this offseason and would have been in a prime position to roll the dice on 1 of the QBs available this year. 

Yeah, plus pick 29 last year. Smaller trade up for JJ, no trade up for Hall, extra second round pick, more mid round picks to build depth.

Philly reportedly wanted to move up too, so maybe Waddle and at least their first round pick last year (which I guess would’ve been Johnson, then no trade up for Hall and another second round pick).

Better team to put a QB onto and more ammo to find the guy.

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2 hours ago, freestater said:

Then Douglas failed. Yet again. 

It's his job to be able to convince FAs etc to come here. 

Nah. He can do a lot but he can’t force the guys to come. 

Pretty sure we had the better deal for Tyreek Hill and he just chose Miami. That’s not anyone on the Jets fault. 

It wasn’t Douglas but we went all in on Cousins and he just chose not to come here. It happens. And will continue to happen. 
 

 

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7 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Except Michael Carter (the RB) regressed heavily, can’t seem to stay healthy, and isn’t a starter anymore (that would be Breece Hall).  You don’t judge a draft until 3 years in, but so far, 2021 is looking mediocre or “meh” at best, compounded by an absolutely crippling pick at the #2 spot.  As for the rest?

AVT is great.

Elijah Moore is talented, but a total enigma right now.  I’d like to see him with a MVP caliber QB before labeling him a bust.

Michael Carter (RB), was explained above.

MCII?  I’m not jumping for joy over drafting a good Nickel corner with a 5th round pick.

I wouldn’t disagree with you about Joe Douglas having to walk the green mile potentially, because ultimately his job description and salary necessitates that he wins the war, not a handful of battles. It wasn’t like Zach Wilson was Trevor Lawrence and 32 GM’s can look at each other and say “who knew?”…you have to be able to avoid those disasters, and he blew The most important measurement of competence  in his job

all that said, he scored reasonably well in other dimensions of his job. We’ve done well with the trade market, the free agent signings recently have been improving, and he’s learning to draft better. Each draft has been better than the last

I hope that he figures out something this off-season at quarterback to buy himself an opportunity for a Zach-redo

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6 hours ago, Paradis said:

I wouldn’t disagree with you about Joe Douglas having to walk the green mile potentially, because ultimately his job description and salary necessitates that he wins the war, not a handful of battles. It wasn’t like Zach Wilson was Trevor Lawrence and 32 GM’s can look at each other and say “who knew?”…you have to be able to avoid those disasters, and he blew The most important measurement of competence  in his job

all that said, he scored reasonably well in other dimensions of his job. We’ve done well with the trade market, the free agent signings recently have been improving, and he’s learning to draft better. Each draft has been better than the last

I hope that he figures out something this off-season at quarterback to buy himself an opportunity for a Zach-redo.

I agree with most of this, but without a QB to stir the drink, none of it matters.  Even Mike Maccagnan had the foresight to say “Yes, we drafted a QB high in the top 5 of the first round, but having Teddy Bridgewater and Josh McCown is not a bad idea.”  The 2018 TC roster is probably the best QB room we’ve had since the Pennington days.

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15 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I agree with most of this, but without a QB to stir the drink, none of it matters.  Even Mike Maccagnan had the foresight to say “Yes, we drafted a QB high in the top 5 of the first round, but having Teddy Bridgewater and Josh McCown is not a bad idea.”  The 2018 TC roster is probably the best QB room we’ve had since the Pennington days.

Meh. And where’d that lead us to exactly? 
Nowhere because Mac had no idea how to build a team properly. 

I know he swung and missed badly but I still think he has a good feel for how to build a team the right way and to focus on premium positions. Sounds simple but it’s something this team has been lacking for a while  

I’d have no problem giving him a second chance at drafting another QB. 

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2 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Meh. And where’d that lead us to exactly? 
Nowhere because Mac had no idea how to build a team properly. 

I know he swung and missed badly but I still think he has a good feel for how to build a team the right way and to focus on premium positions. Sounds simple but it’s something this team has been lacking for a while  

I’d have no problem giving him a second chance at drafting another QB. 

10-6 for starters, the best season we’ve had since 2010.  Yes, everything that followed was because Maccagnan didn’t know how build the rest of the team but, for all of his flaws (and, boy, there were a lot) I definitely can’t fault the guy for not being aggressive when it came to the QB position.

Having a feel is fine.  Executing it properly is where you make or break your career.  The o-line is in shambles, the QB position is as bad as it has ever been, the best pass rusher on this team is an interior guy he didn’t even bring in, but yes, he got us a CB (2 if you count FA) and a WR.

I’m at the point where I wouldn’t be ok with him drafting another one high.  That means we failed to land Rodgers, or someone near that caliber, underperformed (AGAIN), Saleh is probably axed, meaning we’ll need another coaching staff too, and that we probably threw next season down the drain, for the sake of the future, when his initial plan didn’t materialize (AGAIN).  

Like I said, sh*t or get off the pot.  Do everything physically possible to get a franchise QB here THIS offseason, or get ready to deal with the consequences of your own actions (or lack thereof).

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9 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I agree with most of this, but without a QB to stir the drink, none of it matters.  Even Mike Maccagnan had the foresight to say “Yes, we drafted a QB high in the top 5 of the first round, but having Teddy Bridgewater and Josh McCown is not a bad idea.”  The 2018 TC roster is probably the best QB room we’ve had since the Pennington days.

Can't argue with that.

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13 hours ago, freestater said:

You're unfamiliar with the abbreviation etc, I take it?

Your answer about FA was specifically directed at Jetnut's post of:

"How about if Rodgers decides to stay in GB? Retires? Prefers LV over NY"

There is no "etc" involved in that question that you inferred to "Douglas needing to convince FA's".  

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