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After whiffing on OL, the argument for keeping Sam strengthens


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Just now, FidelioJet said:

That's the part of it I think so many are missing.  

No, Thuney is not the missing piece is a championship run, the Jets are highly unlikely to win a championship while Thuney is under contract.  But that's not the only reason to spend big.  

Right now - EVERYTHING the Jets do should be about developing a franchise QB - having a piece like him would be invaluable to a young QB.

And of great value to Beckton and a Creed Humphrey if we're lucky enough to draft him. A future pro bowler 

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I’m also disappointed that there were only two players that would’ve fortified the Jets OL, and they failed to hand out the $146M to acquire them. 

Exactly, why destroy another young QB? Lets just finish Sam off. 

Before you jump all over me, I've moved on from Sam mentally also.  I don't WANT to bring him back. But with this o-line?  They'll just ruin Zach Wilson too.  Why bother? After whiffing toda

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10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Just out of curiosity.  What should the Jets spend all this money on?

one year deals of other teams' back-ups? 

This is a league of playmakers, you don't win with a team of JAGS.  If you don't draft them, which we haven't.  You have to spend to acquire them.

I don't understand the fascination with not spending Woody Johnson's money - or care how much money Joe Thuney makes.  We're nowhere near tapping out the cap and have no good players to pay.  What are we saving it for?

I liked both players, but they got love money. There was no chance of the 2-14 Jets getting Thuney without paying $20M/year once the Chiefs were involved, and I don't even know if that would've done it. Linsley, with one pro bowl under his belt at 30, is now the highest paid center in the league. These were the types of crazy contracts that happen this early. I don't mind missing out on them. Neither constitutes a "playmaker." 

Last I looked, the Jets still have that money and a couple draft picks, too. I've been the offseason champions before. Let the Patriots enjoy that honor today. 

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1 minute ago, slats said:

I liked both players, but they got love money. There was no chance of the 2-14 Jets getting Thuney without paying $20M/year once the Chiefs were involved, and I don't even know if that would've done it. Linsley, with one pro bowl under his belt at 30, is now the highest paid center in the league. These were the types of crazy contracts that happen this early. I don't mind missing out on them. Neither constitutes a "playmaker." 

Last I looked, the Jets still have that money and a couple draft picks, too. I've been the offseason champions before. Let the Patriots enjoy that honor today. 

Fair enough.

I'm just so frustrated with the way Sam was handled and I'm pretty sure we'll be bringing in another rookie QB this off-season.  Was really hoping to have a strong online around him to get started.  

It's early, I get that.  I'm trying not to overreact but I honestly thought one of those two was a lock.

 

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5 minutes ago, slats said:

I liked both players, but they got love money. There was no chance of the 2-14 Jets getting Thuney without paying $20M/year once the Chiefs were involved, and I don't even know if that would've done it. Linsley, with one pro bowl under his belt at 30, is now the highest paid center in the league. These were the types of crazy contracts that happen this early. I don't mind missing out on them. Neither constitutes a "playmaker." 

Last I looked, the Jets still have that money and a couple draft picks, too. I've been the offseason champions before. Let the Patriots enjoy that honor today. 

That's one less playmaker that could have been available to us in the draft. What could have been a Rondel Moore now probably has to be an offensive lineman. What could have been Najee Harris or a Terrance Marshall, now could be a Trey Smith.

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2 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

Before you jump all over me, I've moved on from Sam mentally also.  I don't WANT to bring him back.

But with this o-line?  They'll just ruin Zach Wilson too.  Why bother?

After whiffing today, there are so many damn holes to fill that they might be best off trading down from #2 to get as many picks as possible.

Still not the most likely outcome in my opinion, and I want Wilson personally, but this argument does look better than it did yesterday.

Seriously?  The future of the QB position was dependent on signing 1 of 2 of the top free agent OL?  I would've liked to see the OL strengthened as well, but if KC was after Thuney and willing to pay top dollar, why would he sign with the Jets?  That means 10-15 were competing for Linsley.  The Jets should determine the future of the QB position based on their evaluation of the QBs and Darnold, not based on a free agent miss.  

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I have to agree with this.

Let sam take the beating until JD is ready to solidify the OL

Looks, it's only been a few hours - let's see what we end up with if the OL isn't heavily upgraded, I have to agree.  You can't put a rookie behind that line and expect him to make progress.

It took 1 day of free agency to get to where I was in January. Welcome, brother. Have you heard the gospel of penei Sewell? 

It's not that Zach wilson is bad. He's just not special enough to survive the 3 win beating this year is going to be 

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The Jets should have figured out the QB situation prior to FA. 
 

Players could probably look past a team coming off a poor record but won’t overlook the fact that said team seemingly has no solutions for the bad record. 

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12 hours ago, genot said:

I don't have a clue anymore. Last thing i read is Saleh and LaFluer want Sam back. Douglas is the one who thinks we should move on. 

I think if we change Qbs it’s via trade for Jimmy G

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10 hours ago, bitonti said:

It took 1 day of free agency to get to where I was in January. Welcome, brother. Have you heard the gospel of penei Sewell? 

It's not that Zach wilson is bad. He's just not special enough to survive the 3 win beating this year is going to be 

Sewell and Becton will make our running game look ridiculously good

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13 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

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Look, given how often Phil predicted that Mayfield would be a miserable failure in the NFL, I don't see how you have the guts to argue with his qb takes

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13 hours ago, Philc1 said:

We’re trading him for a late 2nd and drafting a 21 year old Qb who already has had 2 torn shoulder labrums this will work out really well

Tommy John surgeries have proven to actually strengthen a pitcher's arm.... maybe the same applies to QB and labrum tears?? And Pennington was 2 decades ago. Medical science has come a long way.

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12 hours ago, Jetty said:

This makes no sense. You can get an good OL with the pick we get for Darnold.

This 

THIS IS A O-LINE DEEP DRAFT, WHICH IS WHY JD DIDN'T:

 

1. try to outbid the Chief’s 

2. give Lindsey a call 

 

We can still draft a QB , sign a vet QB. Relaxxxxxxxxx 🙄

 

The only thing that was shown today was the talking heads and “sources” were 100% wrong on their takes of what the jets will do this offseason.

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It was day 1 of FA.  There are many moves to be made.  They basically only missed out on Thuney which hurts but doesn't change the direction of the offseason

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11 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Look, given how often Phil predicted that Mayfield would be a miserable failure in the NFL, I don't see how you have the guts to argue with his qb takes

Mayfield is a “miserable failure”?????

So wtf is Sam 1000 excuses Darnold?

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1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Sewell and Becton will make our running game look ridiculously good

And if you had Darnold, he’d be throwing to wide open receivers off the play action... 

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Argument weakens. How the hell is management going to sell another year of Sam running for his life behind a porous oline on our way to a 3 win season? At least with Wilson you can sell the hope of a new QB. Nobody wants to watch the Jets average 13 ppg all season again.

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The problem is that if we keep the second pick we should only want to use it on a qb we don't want to waste the pick on a left tackle when we already have a left tackle....it is either qb or trade for some teams entire draft there are no other options with that pick imo

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

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16 hours ago, genot said:

If i was Sam, i'd say trade me. To anyone. I'll be the backup somewhere. Just get me out of here. If the philosophy is get our QB killed until we hit on draft picks. I'd want out, considering the last two years of o-line play, and whats been done to upgrade. Close to nothing 

It's funny that if you were Sam, you would think you would have any leverage whatsoever

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14 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Seriously?  The future of the QB position was dependent on signing 1 of 2 of the top free agent OL?  I would've liked to see the OL strengthened as well, but if KC was after Thuney and willing to pay top dollar, why would he sign with the Jets?  That means 10-15 were competing for Linsley.  The Jets should determine the future of the QB position based on their evaluation of the QBs and Darnold, not based on a free agent miss.  

Linsley would have changed the entire look of this line and the whole offense. Major, major upgrade at center and an improvement at guard with McGovern moving over. With $80 million in cap space, he would be the one guy I splurge on. Nothing to lose but unused cap space. I would have gladly overpaid.

Now, the interior of the line is still a mess. No one to mentor a young QB on line calls. Pressure will be coming up the middle all day everyday. Darnold is used to backpeddaling already. Play to his strength there for this year and hopefully by 2022, we can fix things inside for the next guy to take the snaps.

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16 hours ago, genot said:

If i was Sam, i'd say trade me. To anyone. I'll be the backup somewhere. Just get me out of here. If the philosophy is get our QB killed until we hit on draft picks. I'd want out, considering the last two years of o-line play, and whats been done to upgrade. Close to nothing 

I agree.  Right now there is so much dislike for him by the fans that he would have to be almost perfect in order for them to accept him.  We all know  Sam is not the perfect type so it could get really ugly and unbearable for him this season.  Joe has got to recognize this and get him out of here for Sam's own well being. 

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3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Sewell and Becton will make our running game look ridiculously good

If you can't block in the middle of the line you can't get to the edge.  

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15 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Fair enough.

I'm just so frustrated with the way Sam was handled and I'm pretty sure we'll be bringing in another rookie QB this off-season.  Was really hoping to have a strong online around him to get started.  

It's early, I get that.  I'm trying not to overreact but I honestly thought one of those two was a lock.

 

That totally fair and understandable. I reacted to it early as well. But as things go on I think they are using FA to get the positions  they won’t be drafting too high and get the players they take later at those positions  time to acclimate and hopefully become future starters. I think we can expect them to take at least two O lineman early that have the potential to be plug in starters. Let me post this to save @Philc1 the trouble. 
 

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16 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Such a silly argument.

You need to support your QB - you need to develop that QB.  You don't just stick him out there and say good luck.

What recent trend of young QB's became good in bad situations?

It's not really. Do you think great players play bottom of the league level just because their support isn't as good? It Never happens (capital N). If you are looking for a serviceable QB, yes, it happens. The real franchise QBs lift players around them. I know you are ready to move on, but Sam had decent line play at the end of last year (they beat the #1 D) and Mims, Perriman and Crowder were running wide open often and Sam wasn't finding them. Flacco found them more often.

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Flacco - a less mobile has-been - got sacked far less often behind that 2020 line, and half his 4 games were without Becton. 

At some point the common denominator has to be Darnold.

Nobody thinks he was in an ideal situation at all. But he made it even worse. That's not some automatic that there'd be the same results with a totally different QB in a different system with more talent to throw to. Also there's still the rest of FA and the draft beyond a RT at #2.

You'd think the Chiefs had studs 5 across all year long. Most of the year they started 4 jags and Fisher.

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4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Flacco - a less mobile has-been - got sacked far less often behind that 2020 line, and half his 4 games were without Becton. 

At some point the common denominator has to be Darnold.

Nobody thinks he was in an ideal situation at all. But he made it even worse. That's not some automatic that there'd be the same results with a totally different QB in a different system with more talent to throw to. Also there's still the rest of FA and the draft beyond a RT at #2.

You'd think the Chiefs had studs 5 across all year long. Most of the year they started 4 jags and Fisher.

Flacco’s stats are inflated because he played very well against the Pats and he has always had Belichick’s number - he had 3 tds and 1 INT in that game

 

He only threw 3 tds in the other 4 combined games he played or started in

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25 minutes ago, Biggs said:

If you can't block in the middle of the line you can't get to the edge.  

Yes you can and Lewis and Van Roten aren’t that bad.  They’re just mediocre

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Just now, Philc1 said:

Flacco’s stats are inflated because he played very well against the Pats and he has always had Belichick’s number - he had 3 tds and 1 INT in that game

 

He only threw 3 tds in the other 4 combined games he played or started in

Right, and Darnold went 5 straight weeks without throwing a TD pass. You are basically saying that Darnold and Flacco were interchangeable last year. See the problem? 

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1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Right, and Darnold went 5 straight weeks without throwing a TD pass. You are basically saying that Darnold and Flacco were interchangeable last year. See the problem? 

As bad as Sam was last year he’s better than any QB in this draft not named Trevor Lawrence 

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