Roll w Sam get two 1st's, a 2nd, a 3rd and a 4th

[BornJetsFan1983]

Just a reminder - browns got two 1s, 2nd, 3rd and 4th for the second pick. 

Our second pick in the draft is valuable and should be traded for at least 2 1sts...roll with SAM

 

 

[Icer]

I want to listen to Mike Greenberg talk about the Jets as much as I want to read articles by Manish

[BroadwayRay]

10 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Just a reminder - browns got two 1s, 2nd, 3rd and 4th for the second pick. 

So what? They got crap from that "haul" in terms of starting players. It worked out in the end, but only because of blind luck. Wentz's career was derailed by injuries and they continued to suck mightily, so they got Mayfield. Maybe you think the Jets should make another try at 0-16 in 2021 to secure the top pick?

[GreekJet]

Doesn’t make sense. Draft a new QB and build around him properly. 

[Guilhermezmc]

How many draft picks do you need to build a team? 

I guess if you're building a team around the 32 ranked QB in the league you will need a whole bunch of them.

[FidelioJet]

10 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

Doesn’t make sense. Draft a new QB and build around him properly. 

You are correct!

They'll trade Sam and draft a QB at 2. 

[TokyoJetsFan]

I was in the trading down crowd, but this video convinced me we should take Wilson at #2. Pretty safe bet doing the opposite of what Grenny says you should do. 

[Matt39]

16 minutes ago, Icer said:

I want to listen to Mike Greenberg talk about the Jets as much as I want to read articles by Manish

Any of these media Jets fans man lol...Greenie, Eisen...stick with Sammy brigade. No one ever learns.

[joewilly12]

Whatever. 

If he stays if he goes this team and this organization seems they can't get anything right. 

He was the lowest ranked QB in the NFL in 2020 

The NY Jets won 2 games. 

Year 4 2021 Sam Darnold hoping for a miracle.

[pointman]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Whatever. 

If he stays if he goes this team and this organization seems they can't get anything right. 

He was the lowest ranked QB in the NFL in 2020 

The NY Jets won 2 games. 

Year 4 2021 Sam Darnold hoping for a miracle.

 

Don't lose faith, JW12! DON'T LOSE FAITH! This is our year!

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, pointman said:

 

Don't lose faith, JW12! DON'T LOSE FAITH! This is our year!

Never 

 

[Grandy]

This path leads us to becoming the New York Bears with a great roster, but being stuck in QB purgatory with non premium 8-8 draft picks and being held back from ascension by a middling QB.

Extra draft picks isn't going to make a guy with the same career numbers as Brock Osweiler into a Superbowl winning QB. 

[CanadaSteve]

21 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

So what? They got crap from that "haul" in terms of starting players. 

So, because one team can't draft very well, we shouldn't trade down and get a haul for our pick?

Seems logical.

[CanadaSteve]

11 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

How many draft picks do you need to build a team? 

Um, lots when the last two GM's basically got nothing for this team for 7 years. 

[Morrissey]

no

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, Grandy said:

This path leads us to becoming the New York Bears with a great roster, but being stuck in QB purgatory with non premium 8-8 draft picks and being held back from ascension by a middling QB.

Extra draft picks isn't going to make a guy with the same career numbers as Brock Osweiler into a Superbowl winning QB. 

And then there's the fun fact that Josh Allen had a 56% completion percentage after two seasons which was 4 points worse than Darnold's.  In fact the stats mostly told the tale that Sam was better than Josh until 2020, when Josh had a great coaching staff, great system, and great players around him.  Maybe lightning struck in BUF and it's not repeatable, but the argument that it can't happen does tend to weaken a bit with such a recent and glaring example to the contrary.

[BornJetsFan1983]

25 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

So what? They got crap from that "haul" in terms of starting players. It worked out in the end, but only because of blind luck. Wentz's career was derailed by injuries and they continued to suck mightily, so they got Mayfield. Maybe you think the Jets should make another try at 0-16 in 2021 to secure the top pick?

@CanadaSteve already pointed out the obvious , but its important because this shows you how valuable the pick is and how many draft picks you can get for it. Our team need alot of new talent and drafting them is the easiest and cheapest method. So having alot of picks is helpful. I didn't realize that needed explaining lol

[BornJetsFan1983]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

And then there's the fun fact that Josh Allen had a 56% completion percentage after two seasons which was 4 points worse than Darnold's.  In fact the stats mostly told the tale that Sam was better than Josh until 2020, when Josh had a great coaching staff, great system, and great players around him.  Maybe lightning struck in BUF and it's not repeatable, but the argument that it can't happen does tend to weaken a bit with such a recent and glaring example to the contrary.

so youre saying a qb plays better with a talented team? really? wow lol this is news to some people

 

simple truth is talent helps

[Grandy]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

And then there's the fun fact that Josh Allen had a 56% completion percentage after two seasons which was 4 points worse than Darnold's.  In fact the stats mostly told the tale that Sam was better than Josh until 2020, when Josh had a great coaching staff, great system, and great players around him.  Maybe lightning struck in BUF and it's not repeatable, but the argument that it can't happen does tend to weaken a bit with such a recent and glaring example to the contrary.

It could very well happen, but as mentioned before Allen is the anomaly of anomalies. Plus people are just different, and typically the head is what differentiates busts from stars. You can see it on the field. Allen plays hard and gutsy football and clutches up when he needs to, Darnold gets easily scared and rattled and folds like a lawnchair under pressure. I mean they spend months at a time with the same QB coach guru, and one has completely improved and the other has worse QB fundamentals than I do in pickup games. Allen also had superior raw talent compared to him to start with. 

It's entirely possible that Darnold simply never gets there, and with historical trends in mind the odds are not in his favor. 

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

so youre saying a qb plays better with a talented team? really? wow lol this is news to some people

 

simple truth is talent helps

Does seem obvious but it interferes with the common narrative here so it gets ignored.

[RedBeardedSavage]

Funny. I've always been in the 'trade down' and give Darnold another shot crowd. A full-on Darnold-anon viking. 

But idk, between recent Chris Simms and JT O'Sullivan QB School content (new vid dropped today) about the Book of Mormon... I've become more open to changing my mind. 

 

[kdels62]

9 minutes ago, nycdan said:

And then there's the fun fact that Josh Allen had a 56% completion percentage after two seasons which was 4 points worse than Darnold's.  In fact the stats mostly told the tale that Sam was better than Josh until 2020, when Josh had a great coaching staff, great system, and great players around him.  Maybe lightning struck in BUF and it's not repeatable, but the argument that it can't happen does tend to weaken a bit with such a recent and glaring example to the contrary.

3 years is more of a sample than 2 years. Comparing Sam Darnold to a huge outlier isn’t substantial but it is blind hope. 

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, Grandy said:

It could very well happen, but as mentioned before Allen is the anomaly of anomalies. Plus people are just different, and typically the head is what differentiates busts from stars. You can see it on the field. Allen plays hard and gutsy football and clutches up when he needs to, Darnold gets easily scared and rattled and folds like a lawnchair under pressure. I mean they spend months at a time with the same QB coach guru, and one has completely improved and the other has worse QB fundamentals than I do in pickup games. Allen also had superior raw talent compared to him to start with. 

It's entirely possible that Darnold simply never gets there, and with historical trends in mind the odds are not in his favor. 

Allen and Darnold definitely wired differently. 

[nycdan]

6 minutes ago, Grandy said:

It could very well happen, but as mentioned before Allen is the anomaly of anomalies. Plus people are just different, and typically the head is what differentiates busts from stars. You can see it on the field. Allen plays hard and gutsy football and clutches up when he needs to, Darnold gets easily scared and rattled and folds like a lawnchair under pressure. I mean they spend months at a time with the same QB coach guru, and one has completely improved and the other has worse QB fundamentals than I do in pickup games. Allen also had superior raw talent compared to him to start with. 

It's entirely possible that Darnold simply never gets there, and with historical trends in mind the odds are not in his favor. 

No argument with that last statement.  But Allen was worse in almost every aspect of the game than Darnold until last year.  He got sacked more often and threw less TDs and had a worse rating.  He was a bust.  Until Diggs showed up and he turned it around.  I can't explain it.  Never would have guessed it.  And I recognize how unusual it was.  But I also think we could put nearly that type of roster around Sam with the draft capital we have.  Or we could bring another rookie into a slightly better situation than Sam had but not as good as what Allen had.  

Tough decision (to me...not to some others here).

[jetstream23]

33 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

How many draft picks do you need to build a team? 

I guess if you're building a team around the 32 ranked QB in the league you will need a whole bunch of them.

And if you don't upgrade too many spots in FA you need even more.

Jets could/should find at least 3-4 new starters on offense this free agency period.  A WR (✅), TE (❓), OG/C (❓), and a RB (❓).

Those are low hanging fruit.  Shouldn't require a Herculean effort to replace below average players we currently have in those positions.

[nycdan]

6 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

3 years is more of a sample than 2 years. Comparing Sam Darnold to a huge outlier isn’t substantial but it is blind hope. 

How about five years of suck followed by a turnaround.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitAl03.htm

It's rare.  It happens.  new coaches and new players are a factor.  Not saying it will happen.  Saying that if you believe it 100% can't you are running a bias you may not even realize you have. 

[Suffering since 77]

Keep Darnold ( do or die more season)
Sign Mullens ( knows system)
Trade out of pick #2 ( extra picks for much needed talent)
Let's just see if Darnold can get better with real coaching and more talent.
No QB in this rookie class is a guarantee!!! ( Neither is Darnold, but he at least deserves 1 more year after the hell this organization put him thru.)
Or
Trade #2 in a reasonable package for Watson.

Sent from my SM-G930V using JetNation.com mobile app

[Irish Jet]

All irrelevant. They are drafting Wilson. That’s happening.

[Grandy]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

No argument with that last statement.  But Allen was worse in almost every aspect of the game than Darnold until last year.  He got sacked more often and threw less TDs and had a worse rating.  He was a bust.  Until Diggs showed up and he turned it around.  I can't explain it.  Never would have guessed it.  And I recognize how unusual it was.  But I also think we could put nearly that type of roster around Sam with the draft capital we have.  Or we could bring another rookie into a slightly better situation than Sam had but not as good as what Allen had.  

Tough decision (to me...not to some others here).

These are all fair points, but Allen was definitely not a bust until Diggs. Wasn't as good as this year, but far from being bad. He had 29 Total TDs to 9 picks, improved 18 rating points from year 1 to 2, and his play was a crescendo as the season went on leading them to the playoffs. He also led the league in 4th quarter comebacks as well. The only number he was worse than Darnold in last year was CMP %.

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, Grandy said:

These are all fair points, but Allen was definitely not a bust until Diggs. Wasn't as good as this year, but far from being bad. He had 29 Total TDs to 9 picks, improved 18 rating points from year 1 to 2, and his play was a crescendo as the season went on leading them to the playoffs. He also led the league in 4th quarter comebacks as well. The only number he was worse than Darnold in last year was CMP %.

In his 1st two seasons he had 30 TDs to 21 INTs.  Not sure where you were looking?  

Year 2 his rating did go up to 85.3  Sam's was 84.3.  I'm not a huge fan of that stat but not much of a difference.  He also did have better talent at almost every position including HC and OC even then.  I'd say they were close but nobody was talking about Allen being better after 2019.  2020 a switch went on for him.  I'm very curious to see if it stays on this season.

[kdels62]

5 minutes ago, nycdan said:

How about five years of suck followed by a turnaround.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitAl03.htm

It's rare.  It happens.  new coaches and new players are a factor.  Not saying it will happen.  Saying that if you believe it 100% can't you are running a bias you may not even realize you have. 

Another more drastic outlier is still an outlier. 

Sam can turn it around. It's incredibly unlikely. It's also highly unlikely we pick at 2 overall and get to have our choice of QB in a draft where most evaluators have 4-5 top 10 guys.

It's not worth the risk to bank on Sam Darnold being the second QB in the last 20 years to become something after 3 years of terrible performance. Even then the upside you're touting is league average starter who can't win playoff games. It is simply not worth it. 

[BroadwayRay]

27 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

@CanadaSteve already pointed out the obvious , but its important because this shows you how valuable the pick is and how many draft picks you can get for it. Our team need alot of new talent and drafting them is the easiest and cheapest method. So having alot of picks is helpful. I didn't realize that needed explaining lol

Sure, everyone would love to have lots of picks. But did you stop to think why you'd be getting a bundle of picks for the #2? It's because Wilson is viewed as a possible franchise QB. The Jets can't afford to pass on that. And if Douglas views Wilson in the same way as a lot of other NFL evaluators, he won't.

[Grandy]

7 minutes ago, nycdan said:

In his 1st two seasons he had 30 TDs to 21 INTs.  Not sure where you were looking?  

Year 2 his rating did go up to 85.3  Sam's was 84.3.  I'm not a huge fan of that stat but not much of a difference.  He also did have better talent at almost every position including HC and OC even then.  I'd say they were close but nobody was talking about Allen being better after 2019.  2020 a switch went on for him.  I'm very curious to see if it stays on this season.

Only talking about year 2. Also like I said, Allen is a completely different player with a lot more talent himself, and a completely different ballsy style of play.

[Integrity28]

You can trade down AND get rid of Sam.

[Adobolo]

36 minutes ago, Grandy said:

This path leads us to becoming the New York Bears with a great roster, but being stuck in QB purgatory with non premium 8-8 draft picks and being held back from ascension by a middling QB.

Extra draft picks isn't going to make a guy with the same career numbers as Brock Osweiler into a Superbowl winning QB. 

The bears picked a one year Wonder quarter back with the 2nd pick in the draft, how did that work out?