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Roll w Sam get two 1st's, a 2nd, a 3rd and a 4th


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I think this whole QB debate will revolve around the consensus of Zack’s pro day success of failure. If the Jets like what they see in Wilson they will pick him up and if they don’t they stick with Sam and trade the #2 for more DP’s. Just my 2 cents that makes sense.

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Just a reminder - browns got two 1s, 2nd, 3rd and 4th for the second pick.  Our second pick in the draft is valuable and should be traded for at least 2 1sts...roll with SAM  

I want to listen to Mike Greenberg talk about the Jets as much as I want to read articles by Manish

How many draft picks do you need to build a team?  I guess if you're building a team around the 32 ranked QB in the league you will need a whole bunch of them.

17 hours ago, Grandy said:

It could very well happen, but as mentioned before Allen is the anomaly of anomalies. Plus people are just different, and typically the head is what differentiates busts from stars. You can see it on the field. Allen plays hard and gutsy football and clutches up when he needs to, Darnold gets easily scared and rattled and folds like a lawnchair under pressure. I mean they spend months at a time with the same QB coach guru, and one has completely improved and the other has worse QB fundamentals than I do in pickup games. Allen also had superior raw talent compared to him to start with. 

It's entirely possible that Darnold simply never gets there, and with historical trends in mind the odds are not in his favor. 

This is how I see it. It's not just that Allen improved his efficiency and accuracy. He was the better talent to begin with. He's bigger, faster, has the better arm, etc. So I am not at all surprised that with improvement in accuracy and a great support system he was able to 'put it all together'. I have strong doubts that Darnold, with a great support system, can 'put it all together'. He's been beat up, he seems mentally broken, he's not just inaccurate at times but makes god awful decisions. He is still young and his best bet is to go to another team where he can sit for a year or two behind a vet starting QB and start from scratch (Vikings? Saints?). Or go to a new team where he can compete for a starting gig with limited expectations like WFT. 

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17 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Their regret is not having built the OLine before putting that rookie in there and then watching him go out with a season-ending injury.

 

The mistake was in not aggressively trying to upgrade the OL, not in drafting Burrow. It's not hard to make an OL respectable through the draft and free agency if you make a determined effort. We all saw how Maccagnan ignored the OL.

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13 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Again, there is nothing saying the QB has to come this year.

You make it sound like the Jets can find a QB whenever or whatever year they want. After watching the Jets try and fail to find a true franchise QB for half a century, I had no idea it was that easy.

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18 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Just a reminder - browns got two 1s, 2nd, 3rd and 4th for the second pick. 

Our second pick in the draft is valuable and should be traded for at least 2 1sts...roll with SAM

 

 

Roll with Captain Morgan and get all that plus an additional late 2 and you get the added bonus of not rolling with Sam.

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4 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

You make it sound like the Jets can find a QB whenever or whatever year they want. After watching the Jets try and fail to find a true franchise QB for half a century, I had no idea it was that easy.

If you trade down and accumulate a boat load of picks (on top of the boat load of picks we already have) you could easily go with a Mac Jones/Trask in the 2nd round or Kelly Mond/Newman in the 3rd and still  have 8/9 picks in the first 3 rounds to use on rebuilding the roster.

There would be no pressure for those guys to start year 1 so you could give Darnold that one last year to figure things out and if he struggles you can stick one of these kids in after a few weeks to see what you have with them. 

Much of this depends on whether JD thinks there is a huge gap between Wilson and these other guys.

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If JD is as excited about Wilson as he was about Becton and Wilson has the full support of the coaching staff, we have to draft Wilson.

However, if the FO or coaching staff have doubts about Wilson, and the organization thinks Darnold can be at least a descent QB, we have roll with Darnold.

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And then we just pluck a QB off the QB tree, right?

All those picks mean nothing if we're waiting year after year for a QB. 

There will be a draft in 2022 dude!

And there are some good QB's coming out.  If we have 3 firsts, we can use them to move up and get one.

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20 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

You make it sound like the Jets can find a QB whenever or whatever year they want. After watching the Jets try and fail to find a true franchise QB for half a century, I had no idea it was that easy.

So...You are suggesting this:

1) IF they don't like Wilson or Fields, they should draft them anyway.

What about this when you are playing chess instead of checkers

2) IF they don't like Wilson or Fields, they run with Darnold.  See if there is anything there.  They move down in the draft, get additional talent plus another 1st next year.  Then, with the three first round picks they would have next year, they move up in the draft and take one of the guys next year.

Crazy s**t, huh?

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5 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

There will be a draft in 2022 dude!

And there are some good QB's coming out.  If we have 3 firsts, we can use them to move up and get one.

You know there are good QB's coming out already....how?  And I'd rather use those three 1sts to build around a QB we already have than have to burn them to move up.

We have the # 2 pick.  Right now.  Now is the time to use it to get a QB.  Either by taking one OR using it in a trade for Watson.  

Many of the people who think it's silly to trade # 2 and another high pick for Watson are the same group who are suggesting we can just trade up for a QB next year.  It's terrible logic.  In either case its clear that heavy draft capital needs to be spent on a QB.  But for some reason the idea of trading that capital a year later is easier to stomach?

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1 minute ago, GreenFish said:

If JD is as excited about Wilson as he was about Becton and Wilson has the full support of the coaching staff, we have to draft Wilson.

However, if the FO or coaching staff have doubts about Wilson, and the organization thinks Darnold can be at least a descent QB, we have roll with Darnold.

Exactly. You can't just draft Wilson because Mel Kiper has him ranked #2. This isn't Trevor Lawrence with a long resume. There are legit questions about Wilson. JD should only draft if he is convinced he is the answer.

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18 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

So...You are suggesting this:

1) IF they don't like Wilson or Fields, they should draft them anyway.

When the hell did I say that? If they don't like either of those guys, sure, go ahead and trade down. But that's not going to happen. If they didn't like those guys we would have known it by now.

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23 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

If we have 3 firsts, we can use them to move up and get one.

So you want to waste three first round picks on one QB instead of using the one we have this year to get one? Explain to me how that makes any sense?

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1 hour ago, MaxAF said:

I think this whole QB debate will revolve around the consensus of Zack’s pro day success of failure. If the Jets like what they see in Wilson they will pick him up and if they don’t they stick with Sam and trade the #2 for more DP’s. Just my 2 cents that makes sense.

I agree the consensus of Zack's pro day will be a deciding factor, but it doesn't have to be Wilson v Darnold. We sent our top evaluators to watch Lance, and likely will do the same for Fields. Once we like of those three guys, then Darnold is likely gone by the end of the month. 

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1 hour ago, BroadwayRay said:

. If they didn't like those guys we would have known it by now.

No...No we wouldn't have.  That is why you keep things internally, so nobody knows what you are doing.

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1 hour ago, K_O_Brien said:

I agree the consensus of Zack's pro day will be a deciding factor, but it doesn't have to be Wilson v Darnold. We sent our top evaluators to watch Lance, and likely will do the same for Fields. Once we like of those three guys, then Darnold is likely gone by the end of the month. 

Is there anything more overrated the pro days? Who was the last one to have a “bad pro day”? Bridgewater?

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1 hour ago, BroadwayRay said:

So you want to waste three first round picks on one QB instead of using the one we have this year to get one? Explain to me how that makes any sense?

Well, I'm not really sure why this is so hard to understand.

If you don't like Zach Wilson or Justin Fields, you don't draft them...period.  That should be obvious.

And, depending on where the Jets finish and who they are interested in, wouldn't have to use three picks next year.  They may only have to use 1, or maybe 2.  But yes, if you don't like Wilson or Fields, don't waste the pick just because you need a QB.  That has worked WONDERS for many teams in the past when they reach for QB's.

I can hear everyone now.  FIRE JD BECAUSE HE DRAFTED WILSON when we could have had Sam Howell the following year.  

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You know there are good QB's coming out already....how?  And I'd rather use those three 1sts to build around a QB we already have than have to burn them to move up.

We have the # 2 pick.  Right now.  Now is the time to use it to get a QB.  Either by taking one OR using it in a trade for Watson.  

Many of the people who think it's silly to trade # 2 and another high pick for Watson are the same group who are suggesting we can just trade up for a QB next year.  It's terrible logic.  In either case its clear that heavy draft capital needs to be spent on a QB.  But for some reason the idea of trading that capital a year later is easier to stomach?

Because there are good QB's that come out every year dude.  

So....again.  You would rather draft either Zach Wilson or Justin Fields if JD and the coaching staff don't like them.  I'm glad YOU would do that, but maybe let JD and the coaching staff judge them.  Its VERY possible they love one of those two guys and they will draft them.  But if they do not, you trade out.  Somebody will want them.  You take your draft capital, and who knows!  Maybe you can still get a guy like Lance or Jones.  But I don't understand this mentality that you draft a QB at #2 NO MATTER WHAT.  If you don't like the next two QB's, don't draft them.

It might all be a moot point if the Jaguars draft Wilson first.  I would think we would take Trevor Lawrence then. 

 

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21 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Just a reminder - browns got two 1s, 2nd, 3rd and 4th for the second pick. 

Our second pick in the draft is valuable and should be traded for at least 2 1sts...roll with SAM

 

 

Nope, reset the market with a cheaper option and let this coaching staff build their qb in their likeness. I wouldn't wish rebuilding an Adam Gase on Qb on Bill Belichick thats how bad how Darnold has been. 

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2 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

If you trade down and accumulate a boat load of picks (on top of the boat load of picks we already have) you could easily go with a Mac Jones/Trask in the 2nd round or Kelly Mond/Newman in the 3rd and still  have 8/9 picks in the first 3 rounds to use on rebuilding the roster.

There would be no pressure for those guys to start year 1 so you could give Darnold that one last year to figure things out and if he struggles you can stick one of these kids in after a few weeks to see what you have with them. 

Much of this depends on whether JD thinks there is a huge gap between Wilson and these other guys.

Bring back Fales! 

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1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Because there are good QB's that come out every year dude.  

So....again.  You would rather draft either Zach Wilson or Justin Fields if JD and the coaching staff don't like them.  I'm glad YOU would do that, but maybe let JD and the coaching staff judge them.  Its VERY possible they love one of those two guys and they will draft them.  But if they do not, you trade out.  Somebody will want them.  You take your draft capital, and who knows!  Maybe you can still get a guy like Lance or Jones.  But I don't understand this mentality that you draft a QB at #2 NO MATTER WHAT.  If you don't like the next two QB's, don't draft them.

It might all be a moot point if the Jaguars draft Wilson first.  I would think we would take Trevor Lawrence then. 

 

First off, obviously I want Watson.  And we don't know anything about who the coaching staff or front office truly likes yet.  Fields would be my preference among the non-Lawrence rookies.  Then Lance.  

Second off, your assertion in the bold is false.  There aren't QB's "every year".  Nor are there enough QB's where you're guaranteed to be in a position to get him, even if you have picks to trade up with.  The 2007, 2010, 2013 and 2015 classes had no QB's (unless you count journeyman Jameis Winston).  The 2019 class looks like a 1-QB class (Kyler Murray), requiring the # 1 pick to get him.  The only good QB in 2016 was Dak Prescott, a 4th rounder that almost no one could have predicted ending up a star.  2009, much like 2019, was a 1-QB class (Stafford) that also required the # 1 pick to get him.    

Meanwhile, its possible to take a QB high, realize he's not the guy, and "fail quickly".  The Cardinals demonstrated this with Josh Rosen.  Taking QB's until you find one is absolutely a viable approach, if necessary.  

Plucking QB's off the QB tree simply isn't a thing.  Thus, your over-reliance on the 2022 class producing a franchise guy is a flawed approach.

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21 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

And if you don't upgrade too many spots in FA you need even more.

Jets could/should find at least 3-4 new starters on offense this free agency period.  A WR (✅), TE (❓), OG/C (❓), and a RB (❓).

Those are low hanging fruit.  Shouldn't require a Herculean effort to replace below average players we currently have in those positions.

it looks like they got two although only one chceks your boxes.  the thing is i think your question marks can be had in the draft, even moreso if the jets can trade back a couple of spot.  they can still grab a qb and have enough to grad some top college players.

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greenie is one of those opposite type guys.  if says go left you need to go right.  going left is just wrong.  same thing with darnold.  if the jets get a chance to grab a top qb prospect, and this also means the guys is tops in their book, they should grab him and not look back.  even if that means keeping darnold for the season.

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21 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

And if you don't upgrade too many spots in FA you need even more.

Jets could/should find at least 3-4 new starters on offense this free agency period.  A WR (✅), TE (❓), OG/C (❓), and a RB (❓).

Those are low hanging fruit.  Shouldn't require a Herculean effort to replace below average players we currently have in those positions.

 

11 minutes ago, rangerous said:

it looks like they got two although only one chceks your boxes.  the thing is i think your question marks can be had in the draft, even moreso if the jets can trade back a couple of spot.  they can still grab a qb and have enough to grad some top college players.

I'm sure we can "get some guys" in the Draft too.... but it's not fun going into the Draft with those needs.  And since we already solved DE, S, OG, and RB in rounds 3 and 4 last year I'm sure we can solve the above in this year's Draft. :P 

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11 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

I'm sure we can "get some guys" in the Draft too.... but it's not fun going into the Draft with those needs.  And since we already solved DE, S, OG, and RB in rounds 3 and 4 last year I'm sure we can solve the above in this year's Draft. :P 

ah the sarcasm never sleeps.  give these guys at lest one more season before throwing stones.

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After asking around the league, Matt Lambardo says that the opinion on jets' QB Sam Darnold is significantly lower inside the league then it is among fans and media, with one NFL offensive coach saying: "He stinks, bro."

 

Lombardo goes on to add that one former GM said that among this year's draft class, he would have Darnold ranked as the number four quarterback.

 

https://nfltraderumors.co/afc-notes-bills-dolphins-jets-patriots-62/

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On 3/16/2021 at 6:40 PM, Grandy said:

Only talking about year 2. Also like I said, Allen is a completely different player with a lot more talent himself, and a completely different ballsy style of play.

Allen shows self confidence. Darnold not much of that. On the run most of the time but alarmingly inaccurate even in plays without much pressure.  He truly sees ghosts.

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4 hours ago, mfmartin said:

The entire Bills offensive line was acquired after Josh Allen arrived.

Really puts a dent in the whole "YA CAN'T DRAFT A QB TILL THE LINE IS FIXED" argument.  

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6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

First off, obviously I want Watson.  And we don't know anything about who the coaching staff or front office truly likes yet.  Fields would be my preference among the non-Lawrence rookies.  Then Lance.  

Second off, your assertion in the bold is false.  There aren't QB's "every year".  Nor are there enough QB's where you're guaranteed to be in a position to get him, even if you have picks to trade up with.  The 2007, 2010, 2013 and 2015 classes had no QB's (unless you count journeyman Jameis Winston).  The 2019 class looks like a 1-QB class (Kyler Murray), requiring the # 1 pick to get him.  The only good QB in 2016 was Dak Prescott, a 4th rounder that almost no one could have predicted ending up a star.  2009, much like 2019, was a 1-QB class (Stafford) that also required the # 1 pick to get him.    

Meanwhile, its possible to take a QB high, realize he's not the guy, and "fail quickly".  The Cardinals demonstrated this with Josh Rosen.  Taking QB's until you find one is absolutely a viable approach, if necessary.  

Plucking QB's off the QB tree simply isn't a thing.  Thus, your over-reliance on the 2022 class producing a franchise guy is a flawed approach.

Sorry dude, I disagree.

Again, this sounds like "well, we have the #2 draft, and it doesn't matter if we like anyone, we HAVE to draft a QB."

We don't.  If you don't like them, you don't like them.  You roll with Darnold another year, and then try again.  

If we use the #2 on a QB the FO doesn't believe can be Aaron Rodgers, then it is a wasted pick...guaranteed.  This team does not have enough talent to go through Sam Darnold version II.  Sam wasn't good enough to come in and elevate the team.  If you don't think Fields or Wilson can do that, then keep building a team so you can get a guy in here who can get help.  This isn't 1991: There just isn't the QB's coming out who are ready to step in and carry a team.  

Again....this is ALL a waste of time really.  The Jets probably do like one of Wilson or Fields.  And we ain't getting Watson, so I think you have to let that ship sail. 

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3 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Sorry dude, I disagree.

Again, this sounds like "well, we have the #2 draft, and it doesn't matter if we like anyone, we HAVE to draft a QB."

We don't.  If you don't like them, you don't like them.  You roll with Darnold another year, and then try again.  

If we use the #2 on a QB the FO doesn't believe can be Aaron Rodgers, then it is a wasted pick...guaranteed.  This team does not have enough talent to go through Sam Darnold version II.  Sam wasn't good enough to come in and elevate the team.  If you don't think Fields or Wilson can do that, then keep building a team so you can get a guy in here who can get help.  This isn't 1991: There just isn't the QB's coming out who are ready to step in and carry a team.  

Again....this is ALL a waste of time really.  The Jets probably do like one of Wilson or Fields.  And we ain't getting Watson, so I think you have to let that ship sail. 

 

For the bold:  Do you mean in this class?  Because QB's have actually been doing this a lot lately.  Even with bad teams.  And if you do mean this class only, all offseason I've been advocating bringing in a bridge option if we do draft a QB.  

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

For the bold:  Do you mean in this class?  Because QB's have actually been doing this a lot lately.  Even with bad teams.  And if you do mean this class only, all offseason I've been advocating bringing in a bridge option if we do draft a QB.  

I guess I would need some examples to see if I agree, because I don't think I agree!

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2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

I guess I would need some examples to see if I agree, because I don't think I agree!

You’re serious? You need examples of recent QBs who took the reigns right away and, I presume, ones who performed well when they did so?  

Ok then:

Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Kyler Murray, Justin Herbert, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Ben Roethlisberger, Derek Carr, Andy Dalton, RG3, Jameis Winston, Joe Flacco.

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12 hours ago, BroadwayRay said:

So you want to waste three first round picks on one QB instead of using the one we have this year to get one? Explain to me how that makes any sense?

Quite easy.

If you don't like the QBs at #2 this year you can still get a Qb you DO like next year.

If you LOVE a qb this year you make the pick but if you do not LOVE these guys you do not pull a gabbert, bortles, trubisky, etc etc and pick for need and WASTE the draft capital of the #2 overall pick

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