Joe Douglas Thoughts: MERGED

[Dunnie]

So can we stipulate whiffed on Davis, Zuniga and Morgan. I personally would add Perine but can give him one more year

Perine was less impressive than Davis.

[viffer]

11 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

The best way to build a team is to sign players that other teams no longer wanted. I've compiled a list of teams who won Super Bowls by building their roster with overprices free agents. See below for the comprehensive list. 

This. Most Jets fans are so dumb. JD should go out and overpay for over-the-hill players that were released by their current teams (which itself should tell you something) when we are nowhere near close to being a contender. Smart GM's sign a player or two when they are a player or two from contending. Look at the desperation moves Bellidick is pulling up here in NE because Brady went out and won a super bowl without him.

Spending $90M - $100M to get Thuney would have been incredibly stupid. JD added three potential starters for less than that.

The same people who are calling for JD's head because he didn't spend a ton of money on FA's are the same people who were calling for Mac's head because he did.

[FidelioJet]

9 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

I think it means 

1) keep your draft picks (avoid trading premium picks)

2) Don't over commit years to a contract (he's been giving out 3 year deals so far with exits earlier)

3) Draft players that you think are good and try not to draft players you think are bad

 

But I get your point. The whole thing is moot if you can't hit on draft picks. Plus Jets have such a terrible draft history that they don't have anyone to give more money to except Marcus Maye, so they HAVE to go out and sign other players so I agree. Personally I want him to make a splash and do something but I actually think there will be good opportunity to do that over the next few weeks. My biggest disappointment was him not addressing OL early

That's really the point.  I think everyone is in favor of building through the draft and then paying your players is wonderful. but we have no one to pay.  

So do we not sign quality free agents - because we want to ONLY build through the draft or do we do the best with what we have?

I'm tired of celebrating that we have the most cap space in the league and then never doing anything productive with it.  The last time we were in "Cap Trouble" we went to back to back Championship Games.

[Dunnie]

That's really the point.  I think everyone is in favor of building through the draft and then paying your players is wonderful. but we have no one to pay.  
So do we not sign quality free agents - because we want to ONLY build through the draft or do we do the best with what we have?
I'm tired of celebrating that we have the most cap space in the league and then never doing anything productive with it.  The last time we were in "Cap Trouble" we went to back to back Championship Games.

Those seasons were a mirage... remnants of a solid Mangini foundation overachieving on weak schedules and Rex's bluster.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Philc1]

10 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Perine was less impressive than Davis.


 

Disagree.  Perine was average.  Davis was putrid 

[Philc1]

13 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

So can we stipulate whiffed on Davis, Zuniga and Morgan. I personally would add Perine but can give him one more year

Perine is the best of those players and he looks like an average to ok running back.  So yes

[Dunnie]

Perine is the best of those players and he looks like an average to ok running back.  So yes

I thought I could run faster tha Perine... and I'm slower than a snail.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Philc1]

13 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

So who is worth paying?? Im often met with silence in this question 

Hunter Henry is probably the only guy in FA didnt get so far that could have helped us

 

Sewell at 2 does way more for the O-line than signing Thuney and it accomplishes that at 1/10th the price

[kevinc855]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Perine is the best of those players and he looks like an average to ok running back.  So yes

Then that’s really not a good draft. It’s an ok draft. When Mac drafted Q you all said he “fell in his lap” you could make the same argument about Becton. I still say Wirfs was the better pick but that’s another day.

2 starters a draft with his odd approach to FA will keep this team eternally at 6-10 to 8-8

[SAR I]

8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm tired of celebrating that we have the most cap space in the league and then never doing anything productive with it.

/full stop

It's exactly that.  The Jets idea of rebuilding involves hiring a new GM with a 3 year plan, and all he does for 3 years is trade or release our best players under the guise of flipping them for younger and more affordable versions and his only accomplishment turns out to be downgrading the team.

Getting rid of Leonard Williams, Jamal Adams, and Robbie Anderson made some sense on paper, put here we are entering Year 2, free agency is over, and its going to take Year 3 because in 2021 and we haven't replaced the best players we had in 2019. 

Keeping Leonard, Jamal, and Robbie?  Turns out we could have because we didn't spend the money they would have cost anyway because either no one wants to come here or Douglas is too afraid to take a risk.  

SAR I

[Scotty Wooty Doo Doo]

I understand the build through the draft thing, but with this team , every person JD drafts will need to be a starter . FA is supposed to be a tool to supplement the team needs ASAP . whats the sense in creating cap space if you dont use it , because you wanna build the team by the draft?

 

[JetsFanatic]

13 hours ago, SAR I said:

Stop brining ghosts into the conversation.  We have a GM.  And to date all he's proven is that he's really good at trading and releasing our best players.

SAR I

He is good at trading players. He got 2 first rounders and a third rounder for a mouthy primadonna that didn’t help his new team.

[SAR I]

9 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

He is good at trading players. He got 2 first rounders and a third rounder for a mouthy primadonna that didn’t help his new team.

On paper, yes.  But that trade is still an incomplete because we haven't seen the results of the 2021 draft yet.  Could Douglas draft a stud defensive playmaker to replace Jamal?  Perhaps.  But it cost us bigtime last season and the draft is a crapshoot, only 50% of the players become consistent starters in the NFL and only a small fraction play at a pro bowl level.

And while the jury is still out on the draft picks, the cap dollars we saved by not giving money to Jamal?  That's a solid "F".  This has been one dreadful free agency period.  So far, we got rid of our best player and its looking like its going to take 3 years to replace him if we're lucky.  So how is that a good thing?  Its not.  

SAR I

[JetsFanatic]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

On paper, yes.  But that trade is still an incomplete because we haven't seen the results of the 2021 draft yet.  Could Douglas draft a stud defensive playmaker to replace Jamal?  Perhaps.  But it cost us bigtime last season and the draft is a crapshoot, only 50% of the players become consistent starters in the NFL and only a small fraction play at a pro bowl level.

And while the jury is still out on the draft picks, the cap dollars we saved by not giving money to Jamal?  That's a solid "F".  This has been one dreadful free agency period.  So far, we got rid of our best player and its looking like its going to take 3 years to replace him if we're lucky.  So how is that a good thing?  Its not.  

SAR I

You are very entertaining!!!

[The Crusher]

If you are going to build through the draft then you better not suck at drafting. It’s really that simple. His draft was lackluster in year 1 for a myriad of reasons, but ultimately this teams need to get at least minimally competitive this year. We got the money and he needs to add some talent through FA and then draft very well. Hopefully couple of his pics last year turn it on in year 2. If not, Saleh may be the next NYJ trying to shoot him self out of town. 

[kmnj]

1 hour ago, viffer said:

This. Most Jets fans are so dumb. JD should go out and overpay for over-the-hill players that were released by their current teams (which itself should tell you something) when we are nowhere near close to being a contender. Smart GM's sign a player or two when they are a player or two from contending. Look at the desperation moves Bellidick is pulling up here in NE because Brady went out and won a super bowl without him.

Spending $90M - $100M to get Thuney would have been incredibly stupid. JD added three potential starters for less than that.

The same people who are calling for JD's head because he didn't spend a ton of money on FA's are the same people who were calling for Mac's head because he did.

BB just made massive upgrades all over with his moves and I believe a QB is on the way too. I think last year BB saw how little talent was on the roster and decided that even his coaching was not enough. I expect them to win 10+ games and beat out the bills for the AFC East and make a run in the playoffs. In addition to all of the guys BB brought in (many not over the hill players as you put but guys in their prime or entering their prime and he gets back hightower (edit chung just retired) It sickens me how fast BB has remade the roster while Joe sits with tons of cap and is out signing gunners while our roster has holes all over it

Smart GMS understand you need good players to win no matter how good the coaching is and  you get them when you have a shot at them.

Tampa which was a unique situation but they won by bring in outside guys

Brady

Lenny

A B

Gronk

Suh

JPP

 

Now can we follow the Tampa model ? no because it was unique  due to brady but I am certain the BB moves create a competitive team while ours sadly sucks something awful again

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SAR I]

3 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

You are very entertaining!!!

There is nothing entertaining in watching homegrown talent get punted to the curb and be replaced by numbers on a balance sheet.

When Jamal Adams, Leonard Williams, and Robbie Anderson have been replaced by better/cheaper versions as promised, let me know, I'll be entertained at that time.

SAR I

[kmnj]

4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

If you are going to build through the draft then you better not suck at drafting. It’s really that simple. His draft was lackluster in year 1 for a myriad of reasons, but ultimately this teams need to get at least minimally competitive this year. We got the money and he needs to add some talent through FA and then draft very well. Hopefully couple of his pics last year turn it on in year 2. If not, Saleh may be the next NYJ trying to shoot him self out of town. 

yep we lost a few good players and at best replaced them with 3 players at best a net gain of zero and that is hoping Mims who had terrible production last year and Hall improve greatly

 

[JetsFanatic]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

There is nothing entertaining in watching homegrown talent get punted to the curb and be replaced by numbers on a balance sheet.

When Jamal Adams, Leonard Williams, and Robbie Anderson have been replaced by better/cheaper versions as promised, let me know, I'll be entertained at that time.

SAR I

 

[The Crusher]

5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

On paper, yes.  But that trade is still an incomplete because we haven't seen the results of the 2021 draft yet.  Could Douglas draft a stud defensive playmaker to replace Jamal?  Perhaps.  But it cost us bigtime last season and the draft is a crapshoot, only 50% of the players become consistent starters in the NFL and only a small fraction play at a pro bowl level.

And while the jury is still out on the draft picks, the cap dollars we saved by not giving money to Jamal?  That's a solid "F".  This has been one dreadful free agency period.  So far, we got rid of our best player and its looking like its going to take 3 years to replace him if we're lucky.  So how is that a good thing?  Its not.  

SAR I

Paying Jamal would make this team better? Probably make it a touch more entertaining, but Adams  is a far better entertainer than an impact football player. If he stays healthy Mosley is about ten times the impact player Jamal is. He played like 42 minutes for us and had more impact in that Buffalo game than Jamal ever had in his career. As you know, we had that game in the bag before Mosley went out. That’s a guy you break the bank for, of course minus the hamstring injury and weak ass opting out this year. 

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, kmnj said:

BB just made massive upgrades all over with his moves and I believe a QB is on the way too. I think last year BB saw how little talent was on the roster and decided that even his coaching was not enough. I expect them to win 10+ games and beat out the bills for the AFC East and make a run in the playoffs. In addition to all of the guys BB brought in (many not over the hill players as you put but guys in their prime or entering their prime and he gets back hightower and chung. It sickens me how fast BB has remade the roster while Joe sits with tons of cap and is out signing gunners while our roster has holes all over it

Smart GMS understand you need good players to win no matter how good the coaching is and  you get them when you have a shot at them.

Tampa which was a unique situation but they won by bring in outside guys

Brady

Lenny

A B

Gronk

Suh

JPP

 

Now can we follow the Tampa model ? no because it was unique  due to brady but I am certain the BB moves create a competitive team while ours sadly sucks something awful again

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wait till they get Deshaun Watson for a conditional 6th that become a 3rd after they win two more Superbowls. 

[kmnj]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

There is nothing entertaining in watching homegrown talent get punted to the curb and be replaced by numbers on a balance sheet.

When Jamal Adams, Leonard Williams, and Robbie Anderson have been replaced by better/cheaper versions as promised, let me know, I'll be entertained at that time.

SAR I

I remember the book on izadick was he was a smart cap guy that was going to fix the jets

Joe let good players go and to date has replaced them with worse players.

He is captain of the second worst team in football going into year three of his contract and things look bleak as the rest of our division continues to improve.  Jets went from a 7 win team to a two win team under him-parcells took a 1-15 team to the afc championship in short time while joe is just getting his feet wet....

[batman10023]

16 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Maybe he can, but if I was him I wouldn’t count on in. His inactivity leads me to question if he has the competitiveness to excel as an NFL GM.

He picked his coach. Now is the time to spend his money and draft his QB while he still can. There are no friends is this business. Just ask John Idzik how a patient approach can backfire in this league. 

are you crazy?  he's signed some people and has plenty of money to go around.  often the second tier guys are the best value - and might be more this year given the salary cap issues.

p.s. - you are the first Greek to suggest hurrying up/moving quickly.   most are laid back and slower paced

[nycdan]

4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Wait till they get Deshaun Watson for a conditional 6th that become a 3rd after they win two more Superbowls. 

March 2021: Multiple civil suits filed against Deshaun Watson in Houston

April 2021:  HOU trades Deshaun Watson to NE for a 3rd round pick after market for him dries up

May 2021: All suits settled out of court and dropped

January 2022: NE wins Super Bowl

February 2022: HOU fires Nick Caserio as GM

March 2022: Belichick announces retirement, NE hires Nick Caserio as new GM

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Paying Jamal would make this team better? Probably make it a touch more entertaining, but Adams  is a far better entertainer than an impact football player. If he stays healthy Mosley is about ten times the impact player Jamal is. He played like 42 minutes for us and had more impact in that Buffalo game than Jamal ever had in his career. As you know, we had that game in the bag before Mosley went out. That’s a guy you break the bank for, of course minus the hamstring injury and weak ass opting out this year. 

The Jets would be far better if we had Jamal and CJ suiting up in September, would you not agree?  Two guys proven to be able to play at a pro bowl level and get to the quarterback relentlessly.  Look, I get the fact that on paper paying a box safety huge bank doesn't make financial sense, but that's if you're a great team, fully rebuilt.  That's when you can have the luxury of getting rid of your top talent for the sake of maintaining playoff berths.  That ain't us.

Its hard to rebuild when you're losing your best pieces and not replacing them.  That shiny cheap window can't be placed on the second floor if you've ripped out the first floor.  

SAR I

[SAR I]

6 minutes ago, kmnj said:

I remember the book on izadick was he was a smart cap guy that was going to fix the jets

Joe let good players go and to date has replaced them with worse players.

He is captain of the second worst team in football going into year three of his contract and things look bleak as the rest of our division continues to improve.  Jets went from a 7 win team to a two win team under him-parcells took a 1-15 team to the afc championship in short time while joe is just getting his feet wet....

Well said.

And not only that, look at the gift he was given!  This guy is the only GM in NFL history hired just after his new team's draft.  We paid Joe Douglas $4M dollars to be a bystander, we gave him a mulligan season to sit there and study, study his roster, study the rosters of other teams, pay attention to NCAA talent. 

He should have come out last year on fire, making great decisions to build upon the 7-9 team he inherited.  And he didn't.  He whiffed in free agency.  His draft looks mediocre net of the no brainer my mom could have chosen.  And his 7-9 team went 2-14.

And now?  It's history repeating itself.  Weak free agency, mission unaccomplised.  And we have 18 roster spots to fill.  So that's going to come from the draft and a bunch of guys who didn't even get drafted.  Joe Douglas has made us into an expansion team. 

SAR I

[jetstream23]

12 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Wait till they get Deshaun Watson for a conditional 6th that become a 3rd after they win two more Superbowls. 

[jetstream23]

With this kind of free agency Joe is putting a ton of pressure on himself and his staff with the draft. It now has to be at home run and, based on the results of last year‘s round 3 and 4 I really don’t have much confidence that he can find even middling starters at non-premium positions in those rounds.

[Fantasy Island]

13 hours ago, GreekJet said:

@Maxmancan you curtail these fat jokes? I’m an obese man with sleep apnea as well. 

Keto, it help me beat diabetes.  

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

28 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

If you are going to build through the draft then you better not suck at drafting. It’s really that simple. His draft was lackluster in year 1 for a myriad of reasons, but ultimately this teams need to get at least minimally competitive this year. We got the money and he needs to add some talent through FA and then draft very well. Hopefully couple of his pics last year turn it on in year 2. If not, Saleh may be the next NYJ trying to shoot him self out of town. 

If Quinnen didn’t turn it up last year, I’d be terrified. But it’s nice to see a player actually make a jump. 
 

At least one of Mims, Davis, Zuniga, or Perrine need to turn into a stud. The rest can be average starters, but we need one of them to turn into a star. 

[The Crusher]

25 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The Jets would be far better if we had Jamal and CJ suiting up in September, would you not agree?  Two guys proven to be able to play at a pro bowl level and get to the quarterback relentlessly.  Look, I get the fact that on paper paying a box safety huge bank doesn't make financial sense, but that's if you're a great team, fully rebuilt.  That's when you can have the luxury of getting rid of your top talent for the sake of maintaining playoff berths.  That ain't us.

Its hard to rebuild when you're losing your best pieces and not replacing them.  That shiny cheap window can't be placed on the second floor if you've ripped out the first floor.  

SAR I

Honestly I don’t. Our defense still wouldn’t be good enough to have a player like Jamal on it. He needs to literally be on a D that really doesn’t need him. A defense that is already top five in pass defense and can cover while they rush the box safety who can’t even fake the rush to drop into coverage-do to being 100% ineffective in pass coverage.Unless he is running at the QB with no one in front of him he isn’t terribly effective, at all. 
 

Now, if you already have a great D then he is a perfect fit. His energy,  his ability to celebrate every single play no matter if it’s impactful or not can have a positive effect on the guys around him. Great rah, rah guy, but if you actually need him to impact games against top teams ? No, he doesn’t do that.  Like at all. 
 

A healthy Mosley? Hell yeah son!!

[The Crusher]

21 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Wow. That’s too notch gif giving right there! 

[The Crusher]

7 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

If Quinnen didn’t turn it up last year, I’d be terrified. But it’s nice to see a player actually make a jump. 
 

At least one of Mims, Davis, Zuniga, or Perrine need to turn into a stud. The rest can be average starters, but we need one of them to turn into a star. 

100%, last year was a weird year with the pandemic and missing pre-season and most of training camp. I see Mims being a stud, Davis becoming solid, Petrine serviceable /average and Zuniga being another in a long line of questionable pass rusher picks by the Jets that bust out of the NFL during their rookie contract. Hope he proves me wrong, 

[kevinc855]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

/full stop

It's exactly that.  The Jets idea of rebuilding involves hiring a new GM with a 3 year plan, and all he does for 3 years is trade or release our best players under the guise of flipping them for younger and more affordable versions and his only accomplishment turns out to be downgrading the team.

Getting rid of Leonard Williams, Jamal Adams, and Robbie Anderson made some sense on paper, put here we are entering Year 2, free agency is over, and its going to take Year 3 because in 2021 and we haven't replaced the best players we had in 2019. 

Keeping Leonard, Jamal, and Robbie?  Turns out we could have because we didn't spend the money they would have cost anyway because either no one wants to come here or Douglas is too afraid to take a risk.  

SAR I

And Jet fans love this. It’s “smart financials” and yet leads to losing seasons which they justify as “the rebuild” take time.
 

Some point you gotta win football games or your ”plan” ain’t that smart or unique 

[Tranquilo]

My issue isn't that Douglas isn't spending, my issue is that if he isn't spending to fill in important positions, then he shouldn't be drafting safeties in the third round and whiffing on offensive lineman in the later part of the draft. He needs great drafts if he's going to have be passive in free agency.