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Cimini "Sam Darnold market is shrinking as New York Jets mull QB decision"


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There was no market, he's trash.

This state of sports journalism is really sad these days. Just because Chicago and Washington signed to over the hill vets to short, cheap contracts does not mean they are out of the QB market. Maybe

Tell Rich Cimini to STFU!! He's just mad that they're not giving him any inside info and he has no clue what's going on, so it's back to Doom and Gloom reporting. Smh Nothing to see here people m

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JD has badly misplayed this regardless. If he’s keeping Sam and trading down, not getting a legit vet QB to compete is just gross negligence. If he is trading Sam, he just lost a ton of leverage not doing this sooner. If he plans on taking a qb at 2 and holding Sam as a bridge qb, that he just screwed the potential for A draft pick with incredibly little gain. 
Hope i’m wrong, but this feels like a huge blunder.
Until you have players to extend and a qb on a second contract fiscal conservatism is a competitive disadvantage. Cap space issues haven’t been a thing until this year, and even then, the tv deal is going to bail them all out so everyone gets to manipulate cap hits to future years. I like Lawson and Davis for the most part, but I question the general approach of this offseason. 
I see zero downside to holding sam as a bridge and drafting Wilson ... we were never getting that much for Darnold this year so holding him till the draft makes sense ... and holding him to compete makes sense

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1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

If we were Gona deal him he shoulda be dealt with now...

looks like he’s coming back 

How can we deal Darnold before seeing Wilson at his Pro Day? If Wilson had his Pro Day when Lawrence had his, maybe Darnold would be gone by now.

 

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5 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

JD has badly misplayed this regardless. If he’s keeping Sam and trading down, not getting a legit vet QB to compete is just gross negligence. If he is trading Sam, he just lost a ton of leverage not doing this sooner. If he plans on taking a qb at 2 and holding Sam as a bridge qb, that he just screwed the potential for A draft pick with incredibly little gain. 

Hope i’m wrong, but this feels like a huge blunder.

Until you have players to extend and a qb on a second contract fiscal conservatism is a competitive disadvantage. Cap space issues haven’t been a thing until this year, and even then, the tv deal is going to bail them all out so everyone gets to manipulate cap hits to future years. I like Lawson and Davis for the most part, but I question the general approach of this offseason. 

Honestly, I'm not sure there's another way to legitimately look at it.

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but you're right.  This has been mangled...

And if he really hasn't made a decision yet, that's even worse.  This is far beyond decision time.  Seeing a guy throw the ball live for an hour (after hours and hours of tape, multiple live Zoom interviews) shouldn't be what's holding you back from making that choice.  

I am truly very worried about JD right now.  

In his defense, if he ultimately ends up trading Sam and gets a #2 then he seemingly always had this under control. 

Going into this season with Sam as the only starting caliber QB on the roster is troubling.

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13 hours ago, dbatesman said:

This makes absolutely no sense. Literally the only sure thing in this situation is that Darnold is terrible. From any perspective—contending immediately, initiating a long rebuild, Joe Douglas keeping his job—bringing back Darnold is the least prudent move available.

At the very least, you'd need a capable starter on the roster for if/when year four of the Darnold era continues to not be working out, and most of those options have already been scooped up. That option is the one losing viability. 

As for Cimini, he knows nothing and is speculating just like the rest of us. Joe Douglas has reportedly fielded offers. He knows what the actual market -not Cimini's speculative one- is. I don't think anyone is trading for Darnold to hand him the starting job, but I bet there are more than a couple teams out there who believe he's a worthwhile reclamation project. You only need one. 

If Joe Douglas is really falling for Zach Wilson, and Zach doesn't douche up his interviews, Sam could easily be moved shortly after Zach's pro day next week. 

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20 minutes ago, British Jet said:

How can we deal Darnold before seeing Wilson at his Pro Day? If Wilson had his Pro Day when Lawrence had his, maybe Darnold would be gone by now.

 

He has countless hours of film on Wilson, he had scouts at every game this year...

They've had multiple zoom interviews with him - they've walked through his throught process, he's reviewed their playbook...

you don't need to see him throw the ball in person for an hour.  It's just silly, those pro days are more or a less a show for QB's like him.  There's NOTHING he's going to do or not do for that hour that will change any decisions.

For second tier players it may make the difference of being drafted or not, but nothing about that should risks losing a 2nd round pick.

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26 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Injury prone? Check

played against Cub Scout league competition? Check

Is this going to be your schtick for the next 15 years?

Or when he's a Jet you'll get on board?

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14 hours ago, Grandy said:

 

I really just don't know what Checks all the boxes means.

Are they really saying - we like Zach Wilson enough to be our future franchise QB to take at #2 overall - we've studied every throw he's ever made, we've spoken to him multiple times...

but him throwing for an hour will tell us what we need to know - and if he's does something wrong we're keeping Sam?

Just seems very strange thinking to me.

What boxes does he have to check?  He's not running or doing any tests.  He's just throwing the ball.

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I got up to the part where Cimini named a bunch of QB's on one year deals as the reason the Darnold market is drying up. Any team that trades a 2nd or even a third is going to sign Darnold to an extension.  You don't  trade a valuable draft asset for a player and let him walk after one season. These one year bridge deals are insurance that there is someone to play the position. Nobody os trading draft picks for such a player.  

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38 minutes ago, British Jet said:

How can we deal Darnold before seeing Wilson at his Pro Day? If Wilson had his Pro Day when Lawrence had his, maybe Darnold would be gone by now.

 

This is also where not having the combine and letting all these guys work out side by side really, really hurts.

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There's no market for Sam Darnold, but presumably there is a big one for the #2OA pick. Makes you wonder why that is besides the financial control, must be everyone in the NFL is obsessed with the shiny new one year wonder toy because that's what I've read on here

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44 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I really just don't know what Checks all the boxes means.

Are they really saying - we like Zach Wilson enough to be our future franchise QB to take at #2 overall - we've studied every throw he's ever made, we've spoken to him multiple times...

but him throwing for an hour will tell us what we need to know - and if he's does something wrong we're keeping Sam?

Just seems very strange thinking to me.

What boxes does he have to check?  He's not running or doing any tests.  He's just throwing the ball.

This will be their first chance to see him throw in person, which certainly could make a big difference. I think he also gets officially measured, which will be a big deal for Wilson.

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1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

I think he also gets officially measured, which will be a big deal for Wilson.

Like, in the penis?

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I don't think that the market for Darnold has "dried up" because of the free agent QB signings.  Any team that is interested in trading for him believes that he may become their franchise QB for years. Signing veteran QBS who are close to the end of their careers or whose better days are behind them does not alter their thinking. Besides, every team needs an experienced back up.

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50 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I really just don't know what Checks all the boxes means.

Are they really saying - we like Zach Wilson enough to be our future franchise QB to take at #2 overall - we've studied every throw he's ever made, we've spoken to him multiple times...

but him throwing for an hour will tell us what we need to know - and if he's does something wrong we're keeping Sam?

Just seems very strange thinking to me.

What boxes does he have to check?  He's not running or doing any tests.  He's just throwing the ball.

If Joe Douglas takes a QB at #2, that's basically the defining move of his career as a GM, and he and his rookie head coach will be hitching their wagon -for better or worse- to that player. The tremendousness of this decision cannot be overstated. If he takes the QB, he needs to be right. If he's not, that's when his career starts heading south. Everybody in the building needs to be on board, and I'm sure there's more than one opinion on the QBs there in this moment. 

The safer career move could be to pass on the QB, take the bounty of picks (including a future first rounder or two), build the rest of the roster and punt the QB decision forward a year. 

I'm content to let him take his time, check his boxes. The draft wouldn't be coming any sooner if he made his mind up last week, and -unlike Cimini- he has a much better idea of what the true trade market for Darnold might be. 

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15 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

This will be their first chance to see him throw in person, which certainly could make a big difference. I think he also gets officially measured, which will be a big deal for Wilson.

They've had scouts at his games all year.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

He has countless hours of film on Wilson, he had scouts at every game this year...

They've had multiple zoom interviews with him - they've walked through his throught process, he's reviewed their playbook...

you don't need to see him throw the ball in person for an hour.  It's just silly, those pro days are more or a less a show for QB's like him.  There's NOTHING he's going to do or not do for that hour that will change any decisions.

For second tier players it may make the difference of being drafted or not, but nothing about that should risks losing a 2nd round pick.

If front offices agreed with you they wouldn't show up or they would send scouts or low level staff as a courtesy. 

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15 hours ago, JiF said:

There was no market, he's trash.

And no "Happy Ending" for your favorite player?? Although San Francisco has been jerking people off for years and are known to be very liberal in anal situations...B)

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14 minutes ago, slats said:

If Joe Douglas takes a QB at #2, that's basically the defining move of his career as a GM, and he and his rookie head coach will be hitching their wagon -for better or worse- to that player. The tremendousness of this decision cannot be overstated. If he takes the QB, he needs to be right. If he's not, that's when his career starts heading south. Everybody in the building needs to be on board, and I'm sure there's more than one opinion on the QBs there in this moment. 

The safer career move could be to pass on the QB, take the bounty of picks (including a future first rounder or two), build the rest of the roster and punt the QB decision forward a year. 

I'm content to let him take his time, check his boxes. The draft wouldn't be coming any sooner if he made his mind up last week, and -unlike Cimini- he has a much better idea of what the true trade market for Darnold might be. 

I understand it's a serious decision and agree with gravity of it for basically that entire building.  

I don't agree it's the safer move to pass on the QB.  If Sam's bad - JD might not survive another year.  He has much more leeway with a rookie than Sam.  Just look at what three days of FA has done to JD with his fans.  Imagine Sam going 0-3.  ZW will have two years to grow into the role.

Now, as far as essentially losing a #2 draft pick to see a kid for an hour, I'm just not sure I agree with that - or that there are differing opinions on who the pick should be. That decision has to have been made by now - it should have been made a month ago.

These are professionals scouts - I'm sure they've watched countless hours of film, I know they've spoken to him at length and on multiple occasions.  If watching him throw the ball for an hour,  at his college pro-day, in a controlled environment, is really what they're using to make sure an important decision - we are in a lot more trouble than I could possibly imagine.  And in a vacuum, no problem to check him out live before you officially make the call in-house....

But the Jets are NOT an organization that can afford to simply pass on acquiring a second round pick for an hour of controlled throwing. 

If they end up getting a 2nd or better for Sam than no problem, JD handled this perfectly fine.  If he doesn't get a 2nd, it was mismanaged.  Not the end of the world but certainly a miss.

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6 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

If front offices agreed with you they wouldn't show up or they would send scouts or low level staff as a courtesy. 

I'm not telling them not to go, I'm telling them not to pass on trading Sam for a second round pick - just to watch him throw the ball live for an hour.

It's just silly.  Have you ever watched a QB pro day? Do you honestly think anyone, learns anything about these top QB's at these pro-days?

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1 hour ago, slats said:

At the very least, you'd need a capable starter on the roster for if/when year four of the Darnold era continues to not be working out, and most of those options have already been scooped up. That option is the one losing viability. 

As for Cimini, he knows nothing and is speculating just like the rest of us. Joe Douglas has reportedly fielded offers. He knows what the actual market -not Cimini's speculative one- is. I don't think anyone is trading for Darnold to hand him the starting job, but I bet there are more than a couple teams out there who believe he's a worthwhile reclamation project. You only need one. 

If Joe Douglas is really falling for Zach Wilson, and Zach doesn't douche up his interviews, Sam could easily be moved shortly after Zach's pro day next week. 

This is my feeling as well.

There are 50+ other people on the team, plus all the guys on the bubble, plus all the coaches, scouts & everything.

All of their collective efforts - and for the players, risk of permanent injury - shouldn't be all for the greater good of a QB who's been a major disappointment (even factoring in extra challenges a young QB shouldn't have had to contend with) for 3 years and counting. 

It's the New York Jets, not the New York Samdarnolds.

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16 hours ago, pointman said:

The way we hear it, Jets general manager Joe Douglas has a particular affinity for Wilson.

And in what way exactly is the "way" they "hear it"?  And why would they have any reason to believe it to be true rather than an effort to convince teams that they must wow the Jets with a trade offer to pry the #2 pick from JD?

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My concern has been, for a bit of time now, that he might be holding his cards for too long. 3+ potential trade partners aren't going to all wait until after Wilson's pro day to make their QB plans for the season (if not for the season & beyond). They run the risk of losing out on their backup plans, too, in the process.

In fairness to Douglas, though... many/most fans who wanted him to get the best pick possible for Adams also felt he waited too long on that one, too. In truth he might have, if not for Seattle coming to the Jets' rescue again (a few years after doing the same for Richardson in the 11th hour before week 1 that year), but he may have had that in his back pocket all along & drove up the price by suggesting he's happy to keep him if we don't get at least two #1 picks. He's been doing this same thing with Darnold, or at least that's the front he's been putting up (with Saleh also complying).

So while Cimini may even be correct that the market for Darnold is drying up, it's entirely possible Douglas already has his most-likely trade partner lined up with at least a loosely agreed-upon price. All other things being equal, more suitors is better for driving up the compensation for Darnold, but in the end they only need one (e.g. Idzik/Revis). 

I find it hard to imagine anyone else was texting Douglas nonstop to offer anywhere near what Seattle coughed up for Adams, yet he got a baffling return of picks, so give him gobs of credit for that.

I've had some legitimate issues with a lot of his performance, but in this area I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt so far. 

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QB must be picked at 2

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we are a team with a ? at QB ... who knows where/if we'll have another chance to pick the 2nd best QB in the draft again

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keep Sam ... let the 2 fight it out in camp/preseason ... whoever performs best under that pressure starts week 1 

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6 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

And in what way exactly is the "way" they "hear it"?  And why would they have any reason to believe it to be true rather than an effort to convince teams that they must wow the Jets with a trade offer to pry the #2 pick from JD?

Nintendo President GIF

 

I didn't write the article. Just copy and pasted it. 

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21 hours ago, slats said:

The safer career move could be to pass on the QB, take the bounty of picks (including a future first rounder or two), build the rest of the roster and punt the QB decision forward a year. 

I'm content to let him take his time, check his boxes. The draft wouldn't be coming any sooner if he made his mind up last week, and -unlike Cimini- he has a much better idea of what the true trade market for Darnold might be. 

I agree with the above 100%!

Most people out here don’t work for the Jets or the Jets Organization and as an Organization the Jets like Sam Darnold.  

They like him!

The Jets like him as a player and as a person.  
 

How do we know?

@Mogglez and @football guy have specifically told us that the Jets Organization like him!

Pretending this isn’t the case doesn’t make it so   

The Jets also are realistic and know that Sam’s play has been unacceptable but they again know that the Jets Organization didn’t help him 100%

Under these conditions the Safer Move would be for JD to keep Sam and if Sam failed no one in the Organization would blame JD because that would be in alignment with the Jets present internal ethos.  
 

However if and when JD moves off Darnold, as soon as he does so, at that moment he owns the outcomes for that QB period. 

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On 3/18/2021 at 6:50 AM, BurnleyJet said:

Only thing that helps is Watson has just become un-tradable.

Yeah well I don't think JD or Saleh want to deal with drama that Watson brings.  

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2 minutes ago, Coffee Is Great said:

Do the same thing we did with Bridgewater a few years back. Hang on to Sam through the summer, inevitably some team will suffer a season-ending injury at QB and be desperate. 

IF the Draft Day trade value is low, then absolutely.... hang on to Sam.  Don't trade him for a late 3rd round pick simply because "it's the best we could get."  If you can only get a 3rd on Draft Day I don't think his value would go a whole lot lower trying to trade him a few months later in October or November.  If anything, it goes up if a team loses a QB or realizes the guy they have just isn't what they thought he'd be.

If Sam and Wilson on the same roster in Camp causes either of them to "lose confidence" or "have doubts" then they're in the wrong lead.  Players, coaches, GMs are constantly under pressure and facing competition and their jobs aren't guaranteed from year to year.  Why should QBs be any different?  If anything those are the types of guys you want to see how they respond to pressure.

The Packers and Eagles both took QBs last year in the 1st and 2nd rounds with established starters.

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