Joe Douglas must be very confident in his ability to draft?

[Peace Frog]

1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

Upgrades on offense, particularly at IOL and TE. The Jets have big needs there, there were players available, they had the second most cap space in the entire NFL, and they may be starting a rookie quarterback this year.

trust me, I understand the value argument and I am not a fan of overpaying, particularly after looking at dead money for guys like Trumaine Johnson, Bell, etc. But there’s an argument to be made that the Jets may have screwed up the development of their last #3 pick in part by trying to develop him in an offense devoid of talent and protection. If we are going to use an ultra premium pick (#2) for a kid at quarterback, I am fine with overspending a bit to ensure we give him a better chance at development and early success. It’s like buying a Ferrari and then not performing the oil changes on time or trying to get a value motor oil because you don’t want to spend for the good stuff. Don’t ruin the car.

Yup. 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

He's getting cocky, I hear they are going to spin the dart board this year.

I hope they do...probably waaaaayyy more accurate than any draft over the last say 15 years.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

55 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Unlike the other NFL teams, we have a ton of cap room and the worst roster in the entire sport.  We needed to go bigger in free agency because the draft is never going to be enough.  What is the hit rate in the draft?  30%? 

If every year Douglas drafts 1 strong starter (ie Becton) and 1 kinda sorta maybe (ie Mims), refuses to pay his most talented players market value (ie Adams, Williams, Anderson), and goes cheap in free agency (cantevennameoneguywejustsigned), then it will only take 15 years to get back to the playoffs.

And then we'll consistently lose in the first round because we don't spend the money to get the free agents to push us over the top (ie Ravens, Eagles).

SAR I

You nail every point.

Which is why I’m getting a queasy feeling that Douglas is going to send that 2 to someone for a bonanza of picks.

It actually might be the right move.  But right now I’m sold on Zach Wilson.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

2 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

JD has added almost nothing through free agency.

I stopped reading there. Just because he didn't blow the entire cap on overpriced discarded players doesn't mean that he has "added almost nothing through free agency."

[RevisIsland610]

11 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Upgrades on offense, particularly at IOL and TE. The Jets have big needs there, there were players available, they had the second most cap space in the entire NFL, and they may be starting a rookie quarterback this year.

trust me, I understand the value argument and I am not a fan of overpaying, particularly after looking at dead money for guys like Trumaine Johnson, Bell, etc. But there’s an argument to be made that the Jets may have screwed up the development of their last #3 pick in part by trying to develop him in an offense devoid of talent and protection. If we are going to use an ultra premium pick (#2) for a kid at quarterback, I am fine with overspending a bit to ensure we give him a better chance at development and early success. It’s like buying a Ferrari and then not performing the oil changes on time or trying to get a value motor oil because you don’t want to spend for the good stuff. Don’t ruin the car.

He signed 2 pretty good WR's so far and has 5 picks in first 86 in upcoming draft. I don't think he's done upgrading the offense at all. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

Obviously, yes. If he doesn’t hit on the draft, it doesn’t matter what he does in free agency.

And the same would be true if he signed a big fish like a Thuney.

Macc is all the proof we need.  

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Did the Jets go into free agency with more Cap space than 90% of the teams in the NFL? Yes

 

 

Did the Jets spend in total more than 90% of the teams in the NFL?  Yes

So what's your point?

I love the people who go on incessantly that JD should trade out of two and pick up more players, lower rated players, but more of them.  Then complain that we signed lots of lower rated FAs, we should have signed fewer bigger ticket FAs

SAR and the rest make my head shake

[NYJ1]

1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

Unfortunately most of them are stupid 

GFY if you don't like it

[SAR I]

27 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

You nail every point.

Which is why I’m getting a queasy feeling that Douglas is going to send that 2 to someone for a bonanza of picks.

It actually might be the right move.  But right now I’m sold on Zach Wilson.

I don't want any more picks.  I don't want any more cap room.

I want players.  Good ones.  If Joe Douglas has another mediocre draft, if he trades out of #2 and doesn't walk away with a quarterback, I can't see how I'm writing a $5000 check to the Jets every April for the next 5 years.  I'm not spending $25,000 to watch Joe Douglas play footsie.  I can watch this from home for free.

SAR I

[JETSALLDAY24X]

2 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

It needs to be known before I get started that I like this. You can't hope to be good at what you do unless you are confident in your abilities.

JD has added almost nothing through free agency. Even his big money signings are gambles on players with less than ideal careers. A lot of "We'll see" in their new contracts.

With that said, Joe Douglas must be confident that he can build this team into a Superbowl contender through the draft alone? That's really very different from any GM the Jets have had in recent memory.

With only one draft under his belt, what do you think? Are you confident he's on the right path?

He learned from a master. Ozzie Newsome put on master classes during drafts for 20 years. Joe has long way to go to be on that level. But he has a TON of ammo to work with this year. Lets see what he's got.

[NYJ1]

1 hour ago, Coffee Is Great said:

Good franchises build through the draft. It's not exactly a secret. 

True. But the Jets are a very different situation in that they are virtually talentless in nearly every position group. That's also not exactly a secret, but it does seem like a secret to you..

[NYJ1]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Unlike the other NFL teams, we have a ton of cap room and the worst roster in the entire sport.  We needed to go bigger in free agency because the draft is never going to be enough.  What is the hit rate in the draft?  30%? 

If every year Douglas drafts 1 strong starter (ie Becton) and 1 kinda sorta maybe (ie Mims), refuses to pay his most talented players market value (ie Adams, Williams, Anderson), and goes cheap in free agency (cantevennameoneguywejustsigned), then it will only take 15 years to get back to the playoffs.

And then we'll consistently lose in the first round because we don't spend the money to get the free agents to push us over the top (ie Ravens, Eagles).

SAR I

There should be some sort of happy medium . I'm just not sure Joe Douglas had done that.

[jetstream23]

38 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

He signed 2 pretty good WR's so far and has 5 picks in first 86 in upcoming draft. I don't think he's done upgrading the offense at all. 

I agree completely.  He’s not done.  Just felt to me like we could take a bit of pressure off the Draft and focus on the most critical and underwhelming phase of the game for the Jets, the offense.  To me, it’s all about not f’ing up the next QB.  I don’t want to be sitting there as the picks go by at 19, 20, 21... sweating for a certain position because we NEED it at 23.

[NYJ1]

57 minutes ago, Maxman said:

I am paying attention and I read it the same way. You said he has added almost nothing through free agency., So I think his question is a good one, what players did you want him to add that signed elsewhere?

The question I'm asking is do you think Joe Douglas using the draft alone, can make this team into a SB contender. It doesn't have anything to do with me as a fan feeling deprived of more signings. 

[NYJ1]

50 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I stopped reading there. Just because he didn't blow the entire cap on overpriced discarded players doesn't mean that he has "added almost nothing through free agency."

When you're talking about a roster as bereft of talent as the Jets are, that point is very much material.

[Larz]

Can we give the off season a week please?

[NYJ1]

26 minutes ago, JETSALLDAY24X said:

He learned from a master. Ozzie Newsome put on master classes during drafts for 20 years. Joe has long way to go to be on that level. But he has a TON of ammo to work with this year. Lets see what he's got.

And if I had to guess, I'd day that's exactly what Douglas's approach is? I'm just not sure about timing?

[varjet]

I really disliked half of JD's draft last year.  The other half I thought good/respectable.  Its not like the entire draft was ok.  Half was good, and half was bad.  Weird.

The good news is that all of computer generated drafts I have seen show a Jets team getting alot of needed talent.  

So I have hope.   But JD at this points needs good players.  He should take the best player on his board and not get cute and trade down. 

[RevisIsland610]

19 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

The question I'm asking is do you think Joe Douglas using the draft alone, can make this team into a SB contender. It doesn't have anything to do with me as a fan feeling deprived of more signings. 

The question is irrelevant. He just signed 9 FA's, some of which are pretty damn good. 

[JETSALLDAY24X]

11 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

And if I had to guess, I'd day that's exactly what Douglas's approach is? I'm just not sure about timing?

Timing makes all the sense in the world.  He was never invested in Gase the same way Idzik was never invested in Rex or Sanchez. It's his guys now. Is he invested in Darnold or his own guy? That's the millon dollar question, Seems like he is going to give Sam a fighting chance to prove himself with a better roster and im cool with it. 

[GreenReaper]

As a former scout, I think JD has confidence in himself.  His scouts and personnel people too.  As well as Saleh and the CS's abilities to teach and develop players.  

It's a slow process to get back to becoming a sustained winning program.  Lets face it...Big Mac & Gase left a lot of scars and crap that this team needs a deep cleaning from.  In order for a new culture change to flourish...JD is shedding players and adding ones like this...

Download video

He loves football.  And is shocking everyone...cause he really wants to be here! 

JD will be drafting talented character guys that love the game and will be a plus on the field and in that locker room.  

Create the culture...and expect more Carl Lawson types to be coming soon.

 

    

[Guilhermezmc]

Zuniga, morgan, cam clark.

Lmao

[NYJ1]

4 hours ago, RevisIsland610 said:

The question is irrelevant. He just signed 9 FA's, some of which are pretty damn good. 

Thank you for citing me, Jetnation police

[kevinc855]

“Build through the draft” is kind of a really catchy buzz phrase a lot of people don’t understand. JD is taking it to the extreme in my opinion. it’s usually a  mix of FA vets with foundational young players. JD seems content getting mid to bottom performers with potential over known quality players. It’s a risky approach.

Because if you aren’t knocking it out of the ballpark with your drafts this strategy won’t work. 

[New York Mick]

6 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

GFY if you don't like it

That’s smarter then your original question

[68JET11]

3 points...

First for all that are complaining about JD's draft last year, we need to watch those players this year to determine if it was more successful. I'm not judging anything from last year because it was such a weird year, and I believe 2020 will go down as a pass.

Second, for all those thinking JD hasn't done anything in FA. While I've said it would have been nice to have one of Thuney or Linsley. It's not a death blow that we didn't get one. I've done several mocks with trading down not once but twice and was able to pick up a guard and a center all within the first 3 rounds, and another guard in the 6th. There are tons of options.

Lastly, don't you think that JD and his staff have discussed which FA's they wanted to target and which one to go hard after vs, not overspend, but would like. You all are acting like JD is doing this on his own. I'm sure Saleh and LaFleur have had input on this. JD does most of his work in the draft, and like Ozzie, he's not going to splash in FA mostly likely until we have a team with a SPECIFIC need, not an entire TEAM need.

This draft is tell all for JD, and he needs to rock it.

[Biggs]

8 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

I think most of the criticism is that, whilst we signed some good players, with our massive cap room, we should have signed ALL THE GREAT FREE AGENTS. Unrealistic but that’s what fans do. 

And while I jest, just one or 2 more high profile FAs would have been welcomed. 

It seems, to some of us, that we loaded up on cap room the last 2 years to crush this year. 

And we just dented it. 

No just one of them.  SF and NE spent more and got better players.  I suspect with the massive new tv deal and fans this years FAs will look like bargains.  Its the reason I felt we tanked last season.  So we could load up on both the draft and FA.
 

[MysticalJet2]

For me I would have liked and expected JD to sign one of the top OL that was available even if it was a bit expensive to do. Then draft a blue chip OL. That would have solidified our Oline for years and really put us in good position moving forward - whether or not we stick with Sam (and especially if we don't).  Surprised he didn't since his philosophy, based on his own words, is to dominate on the oline.

Maybe he tried, maybe he failed.  We'll never know.

[redlichtie]

9 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

True, but most teams had no money.

The real questions are these...

Did the Jets go into free agency with one of the worst rosters in the NFL? Yes

Did the Jets go into free agency with more Cap space than 90% of the teams in the NFL? Yes

Will the Jets finish free agency having Cap space that is more in line with the average NFL team? TBD, but I hope so.

 

As much as I believe the jury is very much out on Douglas, his approach to FA spending this year isn’t the problem. Year after year we see all the evidence we need to know that splashing in free agency does not build a winning team. That winning unit has to be largely in place through the draft and other means first. Stocking up on underrated contributors who can fill out the roster and plug into whatever system we are running is not a terrible approach.

I like that he appears to value youth, players just turned 25, 26 and even 27 are young enough to have upside and to still play for another payday, the key is to unearth younger players on the rise, Kevin Mawae being the gold standard......28, 29 and 30 year olds are not worth sinking huge money into as that rarely pays back and usually quickly becomes a handicap. Our best recent veteran additions have been trades (Braylon, Brandon Marshall, Pete Kendall, Kris Jenkins) or under the radar pickups and cuts like Damian Woody.

I also like his approach to not being crippled by long term deals that almost always end in big cap hits and absorbing lots of dead money

His real failure is coveting cap space but then failing to recognise the home grown talent in the building and using that cap room to keep the handful of talented players we did have. Where we should be deeply concerned about Joe Douglas is that he seems to think that building a winning roster involves replacing Leonard Williams, Jamal Adams and Robby Anderson with Tarell Basham, Bradley McDougald and Breshad Perriman.....that’s the troubling bit

It’s all well and good having ‘resources’....draft capital and cap space is great and all that but sooner or later you have to use it. This upcoming draft is critical as he’s put all his eggs into that one basket. He’s given himself very little wiggle room....We have to hit and hit big on all our early picks and his mid round picks need to unearth some starting, or at least significant contributing  talent.

If we’ve learnt anything at all it’s that the really great players never make it to free agency. The ones who do have been deemed surplus to requirements by their original team for a reason. We surely have learnt from the Trumaine Johnson and Lev Bell failures that those big signings are almost always vastly over-priced, usually on the downswing rather than upswing and often overrated because their success has been down to being on a winning team and surrounded by significant talent and coaching that inflates their ability and therefor open market value.

I don’t get the upset at losing out on Linsley & Thuney, most people have no clue how effective an IOL is and I highly doubt anybody on this site could pick out Linsley in a line up or point to any one thing he’s done that marks him out as above average. Add to that he plays in front of an all time great QB who’ s one of the quickest at getting rid of the ball and that Packers OL have routinely been highly effective down the years while in GB, but never quite as much so once they’ve moved on, and it becomes obvious that missing out on sinking a monster contract on a nearly 30 year old C/G who it’s debatable is much of an upgrade over our younger existing C/G, and who we spent significant FA money on last year, is not such a loss after all.

Thuney was never getting re-signed by the Patriots once they realised Michael Onwenu, drafted in Rd 6(we drafted Cameron Clark in the 4th!) was a better player and just 23. Smart teams just recycle through and get younger, cheaper and better via the draft....reality smart teams get 16 game pro bowl level offensive line starters in the 4th, 5th and 6th rounds.

Anyway, apologies for the longwinded post, in general I agree we need to be investing those spare dollars in improving the talent on our roster but I just don’t think it should’ve been in the last few days....the real error is failing to develop and keep our own homegrown talent and build a competitive and talented base roster that only needs tweaking via FA.

 

[More Cowbell]

10 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

It needs to be known before I get started that I like this. You can't hope to be good at what you do unless you are confident in your abilities.

JD has added almost nothing through free agency. Even his big money signings are gambles on players with less than ideal careers. A lot of "We'll see" in their new contracts.

With that said, Joe Douglas must be confident that he can build this team into a Superbowl contender through the draft alone? That's really very different from any GM the Jets have had in recent memory.

With only one draft under his belt, what do you think? Are you confident he's on the right path?

It's the right path if you hit on some later rounds. So far that hasn't  happened 

[Sonny Werblin]

I also wonder what JD's view is of his first draft class? They lost a ton of time to injury even though Adam Gase was not allowing them much playing time anyway. Were they snake-bitten their rookie season? Was it the Jet's strength and conditioning? Are they injury-prone?

If they all stay healthy and available, IMO we will be pleasantly surprised with their contributions.

[WowOhWow]

My view is you can actually pick good players and coach them terribly...in which case they'll look like a bad pick.  I think JD is confident in his ability to pick good players and for his coaching staff to actually coach them well.  

Successful "building through the draft" requires the following:  Knowing what you're looking for in players, picking good ones and then coaching them well.

I think we'll see a marked improvement in drafting now that we have (let's hope) a competent, professional coaching staff.

In short...building through the draft is not just drafting good players.  It's coaching them well once they get here.

The last two years have been an absolute train wreck in this department...

[Matt39]

9 hours ago, varjet said:

I really disliked half of JD's draft last year.  The other half I thought good/respectable.  Its not like the entire draft was ok.  Half was good, and half was bad.  Weird.

The good news is that all of computer generated drafts I have seen show a Jets team getting alot of needed talent.  

So I have hope.   But JD at this points needs good players.  He should take the best player on his board and not get cute and trade down. 

I’d like to see the focus of this draft to be on guys who can score touchdowns. If it has to be defense, it better be a pass rusher.

[rangerous]

12 hours ago, KINGDIRK said:

Which one or two NFL free agents do you think JD should have signed? Keep in mind, as a team that doesn’t have a lot of talent we’d likely have to top the contract they actually got.

For example, Joe Thuney got 5/$80m from the Chiefs. Joe Thuney would have likely cost us a little more to land him. 

as i recall the jets offered 64 for 4 seasons.  i don't know what the guarantees were but the dollar amount was the same as the chiefs just the duration was shorter.

 

douglas offered a fair deal and thuney moved on.

[Warfish]

12 hours ago, Fibonacci said:

Things take time. Leave the guy alone. It is still March. Long way to go until September. Final roster isn't finalized. Judge him later not now please. 

He's been our GM for two years and is going into his third offseason.  I think we have enough to judge him SO FAR, emphasis on so far, with the knowledge that this, his third offseason, still has quite a bit of time left before we see the 2021 product on the field.