Corey Davis Signed expecting Darnold to be QB1

[SAR I]

21 minutes ago, doitny said:

serious?

you think if Zach loses to Sam we can get back 2OA value for him? no way. you know what you get back? maybe what Arizona got for Rosen. a 2nd rd pick. 

and if Sam loses his value will go down even more than it is now. 

its a lose, lose for us to keep both.

you guys have got to stop with the Sam/Zach QB duel. there is no way we win.

remember that Trubinsky is a backup.  if my starter goes down i rather trade for him than Sam or Zach.

Serious.  

It’s the most important position in all of professional sports. If the dice we roll is a few draft picks, bring it on, let’s wind up with two interesting young quarterback prospects and see which one flourishes in this system.

All the draft picks in the world don’t matter if you don’t have a quarterback. The entire sport is a colossal waste of time without a franchise quarterback.

SAR I

[football guy]

28 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I understand what you’re saying but this isn’t a straightforward math equation.  At some point if the potential trade scenarios are fairly close, someone in the organization is going to have to decide which qb they want to work with, whether darnold can truly be salvaged and if they want to deal with paying darnold next season if he does even ok.  This decision isn’t as simple as putting two packages on a balance scale and seeing which one weighs more.  There’s personalities involved here as well.

If it's close I'm almost certain that the staff and GM will favor Darnold if the price is right for #2. They collectively believe in building the roster around the QB, and believe that Darnold has what it takes to be a good QB. 

If they think Wilson is clearly the superior player and are comfortable with the medicals/character, then it becomes a straightforward math equation as you so eloquently put. They will place an added premium on #2, vet their options for both #2 and Darnold, and favor whichever output is best for the team whether it be trade #2 and stick with Darnold, or trade Darnold and select Wilson at #2. They're not afraid to select an upgrade if they think Wilson is an upgrade, but they also don't feel pressured to upgrade because they feel Darnold is/will be good enough, and the added talent influx of the #2 pick makes it worth passing on Wilson from the Jets perspective. 

 

But the thing I'm going to say is this: it's probably going to come down to a math equation more so than fans want to think. 

[Charlie Brown]

7 hours ago, C Mart said:

A little different than what the beat writers used for eyeballs
 

“Obviously, I'm coming with my understanding that Sam is the guy," Davis said in a Zoom call with reporters. "That doesn't scare me away at all. I've seen Sam do great things, and I have all the belief in him. Whatever direction they decide to go, it's on me to make sure that I'm ready."

"He's obviously a great leader," Davis said of the third overall pick in 2018. "I've heard a few things just talking to guys on the team. I'm looking forward to playing with him. He's a competitor. Obviously, we can both learn from each other. He's young, and we're both growing. We can grow together."

 

Davis made it clear: He expects to be catching balls from Darnold in the fall.

"Yes, that's my understanding," he said. "Correct."

http:// https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31121603/new-york-jets-wr-corey-davis-expects-sam-darnold-team-qb-season

What wrong with you!!

You mean you are really going to listen to the players on the team about Sam Darnold!!!

Come on Now!!  

[Augustiniak]

9 minutes ago, football guy said:

If it's close I'm almost certain that the staff and GM will favor Darnold if the price is right for #2. They collectively believe in building the roster around the QB, and believe that Darnold has what it takes to be a good QB. 

If they think Wilson is clearly the superior player and are comfortable with the medicals/character, then it becomes a straightforward math equation as you so eloquently put. They will place an added premium on #2, vet their options for both #2 and Darnold, and favor whichever output is best for the team whether it be trade #2 and stick with Darnold, or trade Darnold and select Wilson at #2. They're not afraid to select an upgrade if they think Wilson is an upgrade, but they also don't feel pressured to upgrade because they feel Darnold is/will be good enough, and the added talent influx of the #2 pick makes it worth passing on Wilson from the Jets perspective. 

 

But the thing I'm going to say is this: it's probably going to come down to a math equation more so than fans want to think. 

So another way of looking at this qb situation is, that even if the jets brass feels that wilson is better than darnold, if they can get a major haul for that 2nd pick they’re probably going to take it and build the rest of the team up and if darnold can’t cut it, then they’ll replace him in 2022.

[clayton163v]

47 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Now that Joe Flacco is gone, Sam Darnold (or Zach or Justin) seem like logical backups.

All signs point to Darnold and a youngster.  

SAR I

I think we see eye to eye on the logic.  Where we differ is on whether any of the youngsters are worthy of the #2 pick.  I see plenty of value at QB this season, just not at #2.  #23 is the fair value of this year's crop.  Wilson, Fields, Lance or Jones is likely available at #23.  If not, than #23 is a rich pick indeed since it would push a lot of talent our way.

[football guy]

7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

So another way of looking at this qb situation is, that even if the jets brass feels that wilson is better than darnold, if they can get a major haul for that 2nd pick they’re probably going to take it and build the rest of the team up and if darnold can’t cut it, then they’ll replace him in 2022.

Correct. It's a complex situation with a significant amount of factors that have been (and will be) evaluated, but when you have the resources they do, they're able to quantify those factors and simplify the situation into "what nets the team the most value?" 

[clayton163v]

48 minutes ago, genot said:

Yea. If we can trade down, that's what we'll do. Atlanta might be as far as we can go, if we want Pitt's.i Can't think of anyone else in the top 8, who makes more sense than Pitts. Waddle?????

I prefer Chase to Pitts.  Pitts is a tweener.  More H back or Chase Claypool than inline tight end.  Do not get me wrong.  Pitts can help anybody and has a bright future.  But if he is an H back, he is not worthy of a top pick and will have to earn his keep as a wide receiver.

Great tight ends are inline guys who are feared because they can block.  They are essentially an extra offensive lineman who can split the seam and smoke linebackers while being too much dude for the secondary.  Pitts is a matchup nightmare, but his blocking is a work in progress.  It hurts the regular offense when the starting tight end is not respected as a blocker.  

The draft guides have said as much about Pitts.   

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, football guy said:

Correct. It's a complex situation with a significant amount of factors that have been (and will be) evaluated, but when you have the resources they do, they're able to quantify those factors and simplify the situation into "what nets the team the most value?" 

Unfortunately this does make sense, especially if they can get a lot for that pick.  They may figure, well, we can get a ton of day 1 and day 2 picks the next 2 years and really stock the roster and then if darnold stinks, well, we can bring in a veteran or something. It’s as if they are building the team regardless of who the qb is, rather than today’s model of finding the qb at all costs and then believing they can compete.

[genot]

7 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

I prefer Chase to Pitts.  Pitts is a tweener.  More H back or Chase Claypool than inline tight end.  Do not get me wrong.  Pitts can help anybody and has a bright future.  But if he is an H back, he is not worthy of a top pick and will have to earn his keep as a wide receiver.

Great tight ends are inline guys who are feared because they can block.  They are essentially an extra offensive lineman who can split the seam and smoke linebackers while being too much dude for the secondary.  Pitts is a matchup nightmare, but his blocking is a work in progress.  It hurts the regular offense when the starting tight end is not respected as a blocker.  

The draft guides have said as much about Pitts.   

Can you imagine two TE sets with Pitts and Herndon. Herndon can block. Pitts is just too versatile to pass up if we're looking to create mismatches. Chase to me is a little redundant. We hope and pray that Mims will be what a team would draft Chase to be

[GreenFish]

6 hours ago, football guy said:

Here's the best way I can explain it. 

If they think Sam Darnold can realistically be Tony Romo-caliber and that Zach Wilson can be Russell Wilson-caliber, but they can give up the chance to select Zach Wilson by trading down and acquiring a ton of picks that could bring in elite players at other positions, where do you lean? Leave the accomplishments out of it, just purely focus on the playing ability... 

So lets use another example. Lets figure the Jets had two offers on the table, tell me what you think is more valuable: 

• 1(#2) to Carolina for 1(#8), 2(#39), future 1st, and a future 3rd

QB Sam Darnold (Tony Romo-caliber)
TE Kyle Pitts (Darren Waller-caliber)
CB Greg Newsome (Darius Slay-caliber)
2022 1st round pick
2023 3rd round pick  

• Darnold to San Francisco for 2(#43) and 2022 4th

QB Zach Wilson- (Russell Wilson-caliber)
TE Pat Freiermuth (Hunter Henry-caliber) 
2022 4th round pick 

 

Obviously this is a flawed way of looking at it because you really don't know how these picks will turn out, but they're projecting based on their evaluations

Nitpicking a little but Option 2 comes with $25M or so of additional cap space for a 4 year period.

Option 2 wins that hypothetical to me. It’s an interesting debate. But if they believe the gap between Wilson and Darnold is the gap between R Wilson  and Romo, I’m taking Zach Wilson even if it means the supporting cast takes a year longer to be ready. 

[clayton163v]

6 minutes ago, genot said:

Can you imagine two TE sets with Pitts and Herndon. Herndon can block. Pitts is just too versatile to pass up if we're looking to create mismatches. Chase to me is a little redundant. We hope and pray that Mims will be what a team would draft Chase to be

The number two pick must play on every down.  I agree it would be wild.  But it is too valuable a pick for a one-dimensional player.  Now I am not pigeonholing Pitts, he may develop.  But right now, he is more H back than inline tight end.

My point is there is some risk there.  It is why I drone on endlessly about the virtues of Sewell and the sure thing. 

[C Mart]

25 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

What wrong with you!!

You mean you are really going to listen to the players on the team about Sam Darnold!!!

Come on Now!!  

Ha. I meant the quote “Whatever direction they decide to go, it's on me to make sure that I'm ready."  At the time of my post that was the first time I saw that comment from Davis. 

Sort like when Douglas said he would pick up the phone if anyone calls.  All you read after that was Jets open to trading...Jets moving on....

All JD said was he’d answer the phone (Like a GM should) and that nobody is untouchable after going 2-14.  I didn’t then and haven’t since read JD is calling teams to trade Darnold. 

The other thing and others have mentioned this. Was there any word leaked out about any of the Jets FA targets?  So now we are to believe JD is allowing leaks of who he likes? 

QB chatter gets eyeballs and clicks. 

[genot]

4 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

The number two pick must play on every down.  I agree it would be wild.  But it is too valuable a pick for a one-dimensional player.  Now I am not pigeonholing Pitts, he may develop.  But right now, he is more H back than inline tight end.

My point is there is some risk there.  It is why I drone on endlessly about the virtues of Sewell and the sure thing. 

My understanding is that he isn't afraid of contact as an inline blocker. If that's the case, a good coach can get him up to speed on his technique. Etc,etc.

[Morrissey]

43 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

So another way of looking at this qb situation is, that even if the jets brass feels that wilson is better than darnold, if they can get a major haul for that 2nd pick they’re probably going to take it and build the rest of the team up and if darnold can’t cut it, then they’ll replace him in 2022.

And that’s how dudes get fired 

[JetsFanatic]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

And what if Zach Wilson and Justin Fields both light up the league?  What if one is in Miami and the other in New England because we passed on them?

We need a QB, period.  All this other stuff can take care of itself with Joe Douglas' 10 year patience plan.  He can f--- up this whole year, miss on every FA and every draft pick, its all good if he just nails the quarterback already.   We've been waiting 50 years for New Namath.  Give Darnold a shot in a non-Gase offense, give one of the NCAA studs a shot to unseat him. 

SAR I

I’m not against taking a QB at 2. All I’m saying is:

- If you don’t, you trade the pick for maximum value.

- If you do take a QB, trade Darnold either before or during the draft.

[football guy]

7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Unfortunately this does make sense, especially if they can get a lot for that pick.  They may figure, well, we can get a ton of day 1 and day 2 picks the next 2 years and really stock the roster and then if darnold stinks, well, we can bring in a veteran or something. It’s as if they are building the team regardless of who the qb is, rather than today’s model of finding the qb at all costs and then believing they can compete.

Exactly, and what's most important to understand is that while the Jets admin acknowledges QB is the most important position in the game, they don't value the position as much as fans, media, and pop culture does. Douglas has been a member of teams that won Super Bowls with backup QBs. Saleh has seen first hand how the Seahawks' and 49ers' teams crushed drafts, built around Russell Wilson and Jimmy Garoppolo, ultimately to reach (and win) the Super Bowl.

They are bullish on Darnold and believe he can be somewhere between Russell Wilson and Jimmy Garoppolo in terms of production. The question is what do they see Zach Wilson as. If they feel he and Darnold are similar, then they put a price on the #2 pick, set a BATNA (in this case, their best alternative would be to trade Darnold if they were getting FMV for him / not getting FMV for #2) and see what comes of it. If they see ZW as an elite prospect with much higher upside than Darnold, they merely let that evaluation influence the price of #2. If no one comes near your price, you trade Sam and take Zach. If a team does, you're loaded with draft assets for the foreseeable future while still feeling good about Darnold. 

 

Jets are in a great spot, a spot they almost never are in and really can't screw it up. Only way they can is by either (1) taking a QB not-named Zach Wilson at #2; or (2) by taking a positional player at #2.

[football guy]

4 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

And that’s how dudes get fired 

Name one time where someone has gotten fired for doing something similar. Hell, I'd argue that one of the best executives in the game did the exact same thing just a few years ago: Brandon Beane.

[RutgersJetFan]

6 minutes ago, football guy said:

Jets are in a great spot, a spot they almost never are in and really can't screw it up

"Hold my beer." - Jets, probably

[Morrissey]

5 minutes ago, football guy said:

Name one time where someone has gotten fired for doing something similar. Hell, I'd argue that one of the best executives in the game did the exact same thing just a few years ago: Brandon Beane.

I’m referring to passing on QBs when you don’t have one and kickings the can down the road another season. See the dude JD replaced. 

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

If it's close I'm almost certain that the staff and GM will favor Darnold if the price is right for #2. They collectively believe in building the roster around the QB, and believe that Darnold has what it takes to be a good QB. 

If they think Wilson is clearly the superior player and are comfortable with the medicals/character, then it becomes a straightforward math equation as you so eloquently put. They will place an added premium on #2, vet their options for both #2 and Darnold, and favor whichever output is best for the team whether it be trade #2 and stick with Darnold, or trade Darnold and select Wilson at #2. They're not afraid to select an upgrade if they think Wilson is an upgrade, but they also don't feel pressured to upgrade because they feel Darnold is/will be good enough, and the added talent influx of the #2 pick makes it worth passing on Wilson from the Jets perspective. 

 

But the thing I'm going to say is this: it's probably going to come down to a math equation more so than fans want to think. 

To your knowledge, do GMs base decisions on other teams public GM speak? 

People really should go back and watch/listen or read Douglas end of season presser and his pre-FA presser. Unless some team knocks his socks off (ie Seattle for Adams) for Darnold I don’t see him trading Darnold.  Sure it could be some GM speak in there but not to that degree. 

[football guy]

21 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

I’m referring to passing on QBs when you don’t have one and kickings the can down the road another season. See the dude JD replaced. 

The dude JD replaced didn't lose his job because of passing on QBs when you don't have one and kicking the can down the road another season. He pretty much saved his job (temporarily) by doing that. He lost his job because he was not a match with the new HC, who gained the acting owner's ear over one offseason, and helped convince that Maccagnan did a horrible job of drafting outside of round 1/managing his staff. 

Anyway, do you have any more examples of a GM who was fired for passing on a QB when they had a 23-year-old former 1st round pick on the roster or...?

[football guy]

12 minutes ago, C Mart said:

To your knowledge, do GMs base decisions on other teams public GM speak? 

People really should go back and watch/listen or read Douglas end of season presser and his pre-FA presser. Unless some team knocks his socks off (ie Seattle for Adams) for Darnold I don’t see him trading Darnold.  Sure it could be some GM speak in there but not to that degree. 

It's a good question. Every team has a task of scouts/personnel that gathers intel on specific teams as a means of trying to figure out/accurately predict who those teams might be targeting, and part of that is watching the press-conferences and reading transcripts. Typically, most of the info they gather is the visits and industry talk. They have a CRM database they use to track the info, and the higher ups will call in favors (i.e. Phil Savage has a ton of relationships in the SEC; he may make a few calls to ask certain coaches/ADs he trusts if a team had shown a high level of interest in players). 

So in short: a team looking into trading for Darnold likely has checked-in on Douglas's public statements and compared them to his private ones to try and catch him bluffing.

[C Mart]

11 minutes ago, football guy said:

It's a good question. Every team has a task of scouts/personnel that gathers intel on specific teams as a means of trying to figure out/accurately predict who those teams might be targeting, and part of that is watching the press-conferences and reading transcripts. Typically, most of the info they gather is the visits and industry talk. They have a CRM database they use to track the info, and the higher ups will call in favors (i.e. Phil Savage has a ton of relationships in the SEC; he may make a few calls to ask certain coaches/ADs he trusts if a team had shown a high level of interest in players). 

So in short: a team looking into trading for Darnold likely has checked-in on Douglas's public statements and compared them to his private ones to try and catch him bluffing.

Savage was radio guy for bama games for years if I recall correctly. 

Plus he ran the Sr Bowl for 4-5 yrs too. Coached learned under Belichick in Cleveland and then under Ozzie in Balt.  He’s a great resource for Douglas. Glad to have him. 

[doitny]

25 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Serious.  

It’s the most important position in all of professional sports. If the dice we roll is a few draft picks, bring it on, let’s wind up with two interesting young quarterback prospects and see which one flourishes in this system.

All the draft picks in the world don’t matter if you don’t have a quarterback. The entire sport is a colossal waste of time without a franchise quarterback.

SAR I

i know, the QB is the most important position. 

but nobody uses the 2nd pick in the entire NFL draft on a QB and puts him in a steel cage death match with the last savior of the franchise. 

what happend to developing your QB? 

your going to put the kid in enormous pressure from day 1. does that help his development?

Josh Allen had Peterson, Barkley and Derek Anderson. and the starter for 3 years before Tyrod Taylor was gone. to make sure there was no pressure on him

and Taylor went to Cleveland knowing it was Mayfields team. no pressure there.

Rosen had Sam Bradford and Glennon. then when Rosen had a bad year Arizona didnt keep him to fight it out with there new #1 pick Kyler Murray. 

and i bet Minshew will be gone before the season so Trevor has nobody to give him any pressure. 

nobody does this to there high 1st QB pick. 

i know if someone offered a 2nd rd pick for Sam tomorrow the whole board would pack Sams bags for him. but because were not getting what you guys think Sam is worth your willing to bite your nose off to spite your face. not realizing how bad it is to have the last years savior play with this years savior. Broadway Sam meet your replacement Broadway Zach. 

 if your willing to trade Sam and draft Zach then do it. who cares what the trade compensation is.

so our plan is to draft Zach and trade Sam, BUT!!!! since we cant get what we want from Sam where going to keep him and have them fight it out right? so we are letting other teams decide our strategy? so we throw Zach off the deep end and see if he can swin, if not ,,,who cares right? but if we get rid of Sam we will give Zach time to learn how to swim. 

 

for your idea to work Sam has to be lights out good. and if we really believe that he could then why bother drafting Zach. 

 

 

 

[Grandy]

2 hours ago, football guy said:

They are bullish on Darnold and believe he can be somewhere between Russell Wilson and Jimmy Garoppolo in terms of production.

This scares me, he's shown nothing to warrant that. He can't see the field, he can't handle pressure, he cant make reads, he stares down wideouts, he has awful mechanics. He's a good athlete but fails at just about every single QB fundamental. A coach can help him, but all of that still needs to be coached when a few QB's in the draft already do those things. I would love for this to be the outlook, but this just seems to be too optimistic. For every 20 QBs that start off as bad as him, only 1 ends up being decent at least.

Darnold has shown nothing to prove he can even be good aside from "oh he makes a great throw every few dozen attempts".

[football guy]

6 minutes ago, Grandy said:

This scares me, he's shown nothing to warrant that. He can't see the field, he can't handle pressure, he cant make reads, he stares down wideouts, he has awful mechanics. He's a good athlete but fails at just about every single QB fundamental. A coach can help him, but all of that still needs to be coached when a few QB's in the draft already do those things. I would love for this to be the outlook, but this just seems to be too optimistic. For every 20 QBs that start off as bad as him, only 1 ends up being decent at least.

Darnold has shown nothing to prove he can even be good aside from "oh he makes a great throw every few dozen attempts".

Statistics only tell part of the story. Need to really dig deep into the tape, identify the errors, ask why they happened. Need to ask why the mechanics got worse, why the play regressed. The general consensus within the organization is that the offense Gase implemented was counterproductive to Darnold's development in the first place, let alone any young QB, and that the primary reason the entire team regressed - especially Darnold - is because the coaching staff was not able to adjust and adapt to the pandemic restrictions. Coaches and execs believe he has the natural ability to see the field very well, that he is capable of handling and escaping pressure, that he can go through progressions, and that he can make every throw. They agree his mechanics are a mess, but attribute that to lack of hard coaching. Agents have said that the former staff was reluctant to work with his private QB coach; they wouldn't consider his suggestions and pretty much ignored him and the curriculum he had recommended. 

Sam's the first QB ever to be the youngest day 1 starting QB in NFL history that spent his first 3 seasons on one of the league's worst teams, with one of the league's worst coaches, and through an offseason stricken by a pandemic, all the while entering year 4 as a 24 year old. There is no comparison to Darnold whether you consider the last 20 QBs or 200, so it's pointless to point to past examples as precedent. The Jets staff has dug deep, knows what he does well, knows what he needs to work on, knows how they can utilize him, and feels they can win with him. Joe Douglas is a big fan. Question ultimately comes down to their grade on Wilson, their grade on Darnold, how much do they want for #2, how much do they want for Darnold, and who makes offers

[Grandy]

11 minutes ago, football guy said:

Statistics only tell part of the story. Need to really dig deep into the tape, identify the errors, ask why they happened. Need to ask why the mechanics got worse, why the play regressed. The general consensus within the organization is that the offense Gase implemented was counterproductive to Darnold's development in the first place, let alone any young QB, and that the primary reason the entire team regressed - especially Darnold - is because the coaching staff was not able to adjust and adapt to the pandemic restrictions. Coaches and execs believe he has the natural ability to see the field very well, that he is capable of handling and escaping pressure, that he can go through progressions, and that he can make every throw. They agree his mechanics are a mess, but attribute that to lack of hard coaching. Agents have said that the former staff was reluctant to work with his private QB coach; they wouldn't consider his suggestions and pretty much ignored him and the curriculum he had recommended. 

Sam's the first QB ever to be the youngest day 1 starting QB in NFL history that spent his first 3 seasons on one of the league's worst teams, with one of the league's worst coaches, and through an offseason stricken by a pandemic, all the while entering year 4 as a 24 year old. There is no comparison to Darnold whether you consider the last 20 QBs or 200, so it's pointless to point to past examples as precedent. The Jets staff has dug deep, knows what he does well, knows what he needs to work on, knows how they can utilize him, and feels they can win with him. Joe Douglas is a big fan. Question ultimately comes down to their grade on Wilson, their grade on Darnold, how much do they want for #2, how much do they want for Darnold, and who makes offers

These are all legitimate viewpoints on the future of the team. Good writeup.

I've watched everything from the guy and my opinion differs, but it's not my job. I'm open to trading down if the package that we get is akin to the RGIII one due to the flexibility, but if they like a Wilson or Fields enough you don't play it cute. The only definite loss is if we stay pat at 2 and take a non-QB. The plan to take a QB or trade down is a smart one.

[QB1]

3 hours ago, football guy said:

If it's close I'm almost certain that the staff and GM will favor Darnold if the price is right for #2. They collectively believe in building the roster around the QB, and believe that Darnold has what it takes to be a good QB. 

If they think Wilson is clearly the superior player and are comfortable with the medicals/character, then it becomes a straightforward math equation as you so eloquently put. They will place an added premium on #2, vet their options for both #2 and Darnold, and favor whichever output is best for the team whether it be trade #2 and stick with Darnold, or trade Darnold and select Wilson at #2. They're not afraid to select an upgrade if they think Wilson is an upgrade, but they also don't feel pressured to upgrade because they feel Darnold is/will be good enough, and the added talent influx of the #2 pick makes it worth passing on Wilson from the Jets perspective. 

 

But the thing I'm going to say is this: it's probably going to come down to a math equation more so than fans want to think. 

“Good enough” is not good enough. They either believe Darnold Is special or they have to draft a QB. If the Jets pass on Wilson and he  becomes a super star while Darnold middles in mediocrity everyone is getting fired.  Nothing would make me happier than Darnold reaching his potential but I just don’t see how the organization takes such a massive risk. 

[MykePM]

4 hours ago, football guy said:

Exactly, and what's most important to understand is that while the Jets admin acknowledges QB is the most important position in the game, they don't value the position as much as fans, media, and pop culture does. Douglas has been a member of teams that won Super Bowls with backup QBs. Saleh has seen first hand how the Seahawks' and 49ers' teams crushed drafts, built around Russell Wilson and Jimmy Garoppolo, ultimately to reach (and win) the Super Bowl.

They are bullish on Darnold and believe he can be somewhere between Russell Wilson and Jimmy Garoppolo in terms of production. The question is what do they see Zach Wilson as. If they feel he and Darnold are similar, then they put a price on the #2 pick, set a BATNA (in this case, their best alternative would be to trade Darnold if they were getting FMV for him / not getting FMV for #2) and see what comes of it. If they see ZW as an elite prospect with much higher upside than Darnold, they merely let that evaluation influence the price of #2. If no one comes near your price, you trade Sam and take Zach. If a team does, you're loaded with draft assets for the foreseeable future while still feeling good about Darnold. 

 

Jets are in a great spot, a spot they almost never are in and really can't screw it up. Only way they can is by either (1) taking a QB not-named Zach Wilson at #2; or (2) by taking a positional player at #2.

I actually really like the approach you've heard that the Jets are taking.  My only question is, what do you think Joe D. and team will do if none of the offers they get for #2 or for Sam are fair market value in their opinion?  Will they take what they feel is the closest to market value for one of those assets, or will they choose to keep both of them?

It may seem unlikely that this scenario plays out, particularly given the hype around Zach Wilson right now, but there was also major buzz that the reduced cap was going to signal armageddon around the NFL with significant players being surprisingly cut and bargain-basement prices on top free agents - and that appears to have turned out to be a Y2K-like false alarm.  So, I'm reluctant to believe that either receiving a haul for #2 or getting at least a 2nd round pick for Sam is a given.

EDIT: I see that you pretty much answered this question in another thread, so never mind:

14 hours ago, football guy said:

If the difference is close, the Jets will favor Darnold because it opens them up to take an elite positional player in the top 10 and get a few elite picks back, even if they don't get what they felt was "FMV". Have to look at it from a team prospective... what roster is better? I'm just using it as an example, but just look at it in the short-term: Darnold + Kyle Pitts (#8) or Wilson + Freiermuth (#43 for Darnold)?

 

[mfmartin]

You don't think they called. Please.

But then they called and didn’t trade for a franchise quarterback because they liked Dalton and Fitz better?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[QB1]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

Statistics only tell part of the story. Need to really dig deep into the tape, identify the errors, ask why they happened. Need to ask why the mechanics got worse, why the play regressed. The general consensus within the organization is that the offense Gase implemented was counterproductive to Darnold's development in the first place, let alone any young QB, and that the primary reason the entire team regressed - especially Darnold - is because the coaching staff was not able to adjust and adapt to the pandemic restrictions. Coaches and execs believe he has the natural ability to see the field very well, that he is capable of handling and escaping pressure, that he can go through progressions, and that he can make every throw. They agree his mechanics are a mess, but attribute that to lack of hard coaching. Agents have said that the former staff was reluctant to work with his private QB coach; they wouldn't consider his suggestions and pretty much ignored him and the curriculum he had recommended. 

Sam's the first QB ever to be the youngest day 1 starting QB in NFL history that spent his first 3 seasons on one of the league's worst teams, with one of the league's worst coaches, and through an offseason stricken by a pandemic, all the while entering year 4 as a 24 year old. There is no comparison to Darnold whether you consider the last 20 QBs or 200, so it's pointless to point to past examples as precedent. The Jets staff has dug deep, knows what he does well, knows what he needs to work on, knows how they can utilize him, and feels they can win with him. Joe Douglas is a big fan. Question ultimately comes down to their grade on Wilson, their grade on Darnold, how much do they want for #2, how much do they want for Darnold, and who makes offers

Sorry I don’t buy this for one second and it feels very revisionist on the part of the Jets if true... If Douglas really thought that the coaching was so bad that it was destroying Darnold then why wasn’t Gase fired after year 1 or after week 4 last year.

[Philc1]

Nothing like Corey Davis triggering Sam-haters

[Dcat]

36 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Sorry I don’t buy this for one second and it feels very revisionist on the part of the Jets if true... If Douglas really thought that the coaching was so bad that it was destroying Darnold then why wasn’t Gase fired after year 1 or after week 4 last year.

Because Douglas had no authority to fire Gase.  Remember?  If not: Gase did not report to Douglas.  Douglas had no control until after the Johnsons removed Gase and also increased JD's authority.

[QB1]

Just now, Dcat said:

Because Douglas had no authority to fire Gase.  Remember?  If not: Gase did not report to Douglas.  Douglas had no control until after the Johnsons removed Gase and also increased JD's authority.

Not this bs again 

[Dcat]

37 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Nothing like Corey Davis triggering Sam-haters

the two have a lot of disappointment in common.