Reflection

[Warfish]

Between 1998 and 2010, over 13 seasons, the New York Jets made the playoffs 7 times (>50%), Had >=.500 record 10 times, and played in three AFC Championship Games.  Over this time the Jets offense finished below 19th only twice.

Since the end of that era (the last 10 years), the Jets have had only a single winning season, have finished last in the AFC East 5 times (with two more 3rd place finishes), and have not made a single playoff appearance.  Over that same period, the Jets Offense has been ranked higher than 24th only one time, in our only winning season in that period.

For all the talk of "we don't want mediocrity, just making the playoffs isn't enough", I for one sure would like to go back to the Jets of 1998-2010 as opposed to what we've been doing the last decade.  Yes, a full decade now of the worst abject failure an NFL team can put forward.

Can Saleh and JD change the course?  We can only hope.

But man, we really did have it pretty good from 98-10, and maybe we never really realized it.

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Between 1998 and 2010, over 13 seasons, the New York Jets made the playoffs 7 times (>50%), Had >=.500 record 10 times, and played in three AFC Championship Games.

Since the end of that era (the last 10 years), the Jets have had only a single winning season, have finished last in the AFC East 5 times (with two more 3rd place finishes), and have not made a single playoff appearance.  Over that same period, the Jets Offense has been ranked higher than 24th only one time, in our only winning season in that period.

For all the talk of "we don't want mediocrity, just making the playoffs isn't enough", I for one sure would like to go back to the Jets of 1998-2010 as opposed to what we've been doing the last decade.  Yes, a full decade now of the worst abject failure an NFL team can put forward.

Can Saleh and JD change the course?  We can only hope.

But man, we really did have it pretty good from 98-10, and maybe we never really realized it.

When the Jets have been good (and many other teams) it has started with a great oline.  Not a partly good oline, not a we can get by oline but a great oline.

In many cases until your team is decent to good you cannot solve oline via FA.  Douglas has to not fall for the pretty toys in the draft and keep drafting oline fairly high.

[section314]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Between 1998 and 2010, over 13 seasons, the New York Jets made the playoffs 7 times (>50%), Had >=.500 record 10 times, and played in three AFC Championship Games.  Over this time the Jets offense finished below 19th only twice.

Since the end of that era (the last 10 years), the Jets have had only a single winning season, have finished last in the AFC East 5 times (with two more 3rd place finishes), and have not made a single playoff appearance.  Over that same period, the Jets Offense has been ranked higher than 24th only one time, in our only winning season in that period.

For all the talk of "we don't want mediocrity, just making the playoffs isn't enough", I for one sure would like to go back to the Jets of 1998-2010 as opposed to what we've been doing the last decade.  Yes, a full decade now of the worst abject failure an NFL team can put forward.

Can Saleh and JD change the course?  We can only hope.

But man, we really did have it pretty good from 98-10, and maybe we never really realized it.

What were the defensive #'s from 98-10?  Bet better than the offense.

[Lurker89]

I too miss competitive football....

[32EBoozer]

[jetstream23]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Between 1998 and 2010, over 13 seasons, the New York Jets made the playoffs 7 times (>50%), Had >=.500 record 10 times, and played in three AFC Championship Games.  Over this time the Jets offense finished below 19th only twice.

Since the end of that era (the last 10 years), the Jets have had only a single winning season, have finished last in the AFC East 5 times (with two more 3rd place finishes), and have not made a single playoff appearance.  Over that same period, the Jets Offense has been ranked higher than 24th only one time, in our only winning season in that period.

For all the talk of "we don't want mediocrity, just making the playoffs isn't enough", I for one sure would like to go back to the Jets of 1998-2010 as opposed to what we've been doing the last decade.  Yes, a full decade now of the worst abject failure an NFL team can put forward.

Can Saleh and JD change the course?  We can only hope.

But man, we really did have it pretty good from 98-10, and maybe we never really realized it.

Good post.  With 16 teams in the AFC and two teams making the AFCCG each year the "law of averages" says a team should appear in the AFCCG once every 8 years.  We got there 3 times in 12 years so yes, we're ahead of the curve.  But those things tend to come in bunches once you have a good team, even for the Jets as they went 10 years between AFCCG and then went twice in a row.

It seems like the league vacillates every 10 years or so between major trends.  Defenses win championships yields to an offensive driven league, 4-3 predominance yields to 3-4, strong running games that consume time yielding to a passing league, etc.  The two trends that never seem to go out of style though are having a good HC and a good QB.  Regardless of the "flavor of the year or decade" in terms of trends we tend to see top coaches and top quarterbacks in the Super Bowl annually.  That's why I'm more optimistic now than I have been in 5 years.... I think we may have got at least one half of that equation correct with Saleh.  We'll see.  If the Jets pivot to Zack Wilson then we'll be sitting EXACTLY where we were in 2009.  Rookie QB, first time Defensive HC going into Year 1 together.... and we saw how that worked out! (at least for a little while)

[Biggs]

Great thread WF.  Sucking is way worse than not sucking.  If it makes you feel any better Jets football in the 70's was a sh*t show.  Even worse you only got the Jets and the Giants on Sunday plus a Monday night football game.   We even had games blacked out because they couldn't fill the stadium.   Now at least you can watch a ton of good football even if the Jets suck.  

[Irish Jet]

Pennington bless.

[Jethead]

6 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Great thread WF.  Sucking is way worse than not sucking.  If it makes you feel any better Jets football in the 70's was a sh*t show.  Even worse you only got the Jets and the Giants on Sunday plus a Monday night football game.   We even had games blacked out because they couldn't fill the stadium.   Now at least you can watch a ton of good football even if the Jets suck.  

Burning Joe Walton in effigy. Good times!

[SAR I]

25 minutes ago, Warfish said:

But man, we really did have it pretty good from 98-10, and maybe we never really realized it.

Exactly this, I've been shouting this for years and it's the truth.  The Jets were an elite AFC team, we had a golden age, if not for Pennington being made of glass we'd have gone 15 consecutive years with a non-losing season.

Parcells was either God or lucky, he brought with him a great coaching staff, some loyal key players, got a HOF center and a HOF running back, and stumbled into a Pro Bowl scrub quarterback.  Followed that up with 4 first rounders which set up the Edwards years.  That was an overnight rebuild, a ton of proven veterans and draft picks that hit at a time that Kelly and Marino were non-factors and Brady was a nobody.  Perfect timing.  Jets were the team that pounced on the AFCE when it was weak.

This is what I was hoping for from Saleh and Douglas.  Exciting new coach!  A ton of cap money!  But to date, no one has followed Saleh here, Douglas hasn't spent enough to get the likes of a Mawae or a Martin, and it doesn't look like Mims is the second coming of Keyshawn.  And, of course, Darnold isn't very likely to have a stud season like Testaverde, and we didn't get Watson.

SAR I

[JetsFanatic]

It's been frustrating. We finally seem to have stability at the GM & HC positions as both are on the same timeline and the Johnson Brothers have changed the organizational structure. I like the free agancy period we just had as I am optimistic about the players signed and, for those that don't workout, none of the contracts will hamastring us. 

The draft is where teams are built, free agency is just supplementary.  I'm cautiously optimistic abut last year's draft and hopefully another good draft this year will have us on our way.  The drafts from the Idzik/Maccagnan years were dreadful and that is how the Jets ended up in the present situation.

[playtowinthegame]

You can always count on @SAR I to come to the defense of the Johnsons or MetLife Stadium. Posting something/anything that paints either of the aforementioned Jets owners or the stadium in a bad light is like flashing a Jet distress signal. 

[UnknownJetFan]

56 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

When the Jets have been good (and many other teams) it has started with a great oline.  Not a partly good oline, not a we can get by oline but a great oline.

In many cases until your team is decent to good you cannot solve oline via FA.  Douglas has to not fall for the pretty toys in the draft and keep drafting oline fairly high.

Between 98 and 2010 we picked up great FAs like Mawei and great Draft picks(Mangold, Brick) with Oline. Kinda need both.

[Beerfish]

2 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Between 98 and 2010 we picked up great FAs like Mawei and great Draft picks(Mangold, Brick) with Oline. Kinda need both.

Mawae and Faneca were added to already promising olines and teams on the upswing

[slats]

43 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

If the Jets pivot to Zack Wilson then we'll be sitting EXACTLY where we were in 2009.  Rookie QB, first time Defensive HC going into Year 1 together.... and we saw how that worked out! (at least for a little while)

This is why I continue to not hate the idea of Darnold being the guy this year. Trade down from that #2, build the rest of the roster, and see what he does. Gives the rookie HC and OC an opportunity to install their program without also having to simultaneously break in a rookie QB. 
 
If after the season they decide Sam isn’t the guy, they likely have three first round picks and a better cap situation than most to fix it in 2022. 

[CrazyCarl40]

[SAR I]

17 minutes ago, slats said:

This is why I continue to not hate the idea of Darnold being the guy this year. Trade down from that #2, build the rest of the roster, and see what he does. Gives the rookie HC and OC an opportunity to install their program without also having to simultaneously break in a rookie QB. 
 
If after the season they decide Sam isn’t the guy, they likely have three first round picks and a better cap situation than most to fix it in 2022. 

People I trust say that the 2022 draft is going to be awful for quarterbacks.  So if the Jets pass on a blue chipper this year and we need one next year, they aren't there.  We'd have to get an old free agent or someone struggling elsewhere.

This is why the move is to take Wilson or Fields and keep Darnold.  You can trade one of them next year.  

SAR I

[varjet]

I am going to be the cynic.  

1998-2010 were a great time to be a Jet fan, but maybe the Johnsons' motivation was to get the stadium built and the PSLs sold.

Tannenbaum borrowed from the future to pay the present.  But when the bill came due, the team unwound.   Now some have asserted, probably accurately, that the Jets pursue a strategy to spend as little under the cap as possible.  

Hopefully the Johnsons realize that they need to swing back the other way a bit.  They are in terms of what they are paying the Coaches, GM, FO, etc.  

[southparkcpa]

37 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

It's been frustrating. We finally seem to have stability at the GM & HC positions as both are on the same timeline and the Johnson Brothers have changed the organizational structure. I like the free agancy period we just had as I am optimistic about the players signed and, for those that don't workout, none of the contracts will hamastring us. 

The draft is where teams are built, free agency is just supplementary.  I'm cautiously optimistic abut last year's draft and hopefully another good draft this year will have us on our way.  The drafts from the Idzik/Maccagnan years were dreadful and that is how the Jets ended up in the present situation.

It started well before Idzik.    We drafted defense when we had no QB and Tanny shlt the bed every year since 2010.  Who drafts Kyle Wilson with the 1st pick when you have a QB who needs help.

[Peace Frog]

It was a fun period for sure. So much more entertaining than being out of contention before Halloween. Or even week 3. 

I hate starting to think about the draft before the autumnal equinox. 

[y2k8]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

People I trust say that the 2022 draft is going to be awful for quarterbacks. 

SAR I

And then the college football will begin and QBs emerge.

And then by November, 2 QBs are projected to be Top 10 picks.

And then by February, at least 4 QBs will be projected to be Top 10 picks.

Book it.

  

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Good post.  With 16 teams in the AFC and two teams making the AFCCG each year the "law of averages" says a team should appear in the AFCCG once every 8 years.  We got there 3 times in 12 years so yes, we're ahead of the curve.  

One would think that the curve would have allowed us to win one or two of those AFC Championship games that were all lost. Ahead of the curve in one respect but abysmally behind it in the very next breath.  

[varjet]

5 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

And then the college football will begin and QBs emerge.

And then by November, 2 QBs are projected to be Top 10 picks.

And then by February, at least 4 QBs will be projected to be Top 10 picks.

Book it.

  

The market drives this.  With all of the money QBs and WRs are making, that is where the athletes are training.  

5 years ago we were wondering where the young QBs were.  Now the young QBs are slowing replacing the older ones, Tom Brady excluded.

I do think the GB pick last year made no sense.  

[TMAC]

When you are at or close to rock bottom for so long, almost anything is better.  They say that some people in Russia pine for the days of Joseph Stalin.  I go back to the days when Joe Namath was a rookie and Weeb Ewbank was the coach.  They were an exciting team, intensely competitive and fun to watch.  Super Bowl III was my all time high as a sports fan.  That's what I want but it will take a little time to achieve that.  I think we can do it with JD and Saleh. Go Jets!

[Icer]

I kinda feel like the Jets died with that 99 yard Victor Cruz touchdown

[THE BARON]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Great thread WF.  Sucking is way worse than not sucking.  If it makes you feel any better Jets football in the 70's was a sh*t show.  Even worse you only got the Jets and the Giants on Sunday plus a Monday night football game.   We even had games blacked out because they couldn't fill the stadium.   Now at least you can watch a ton of good football even if the Jets suck.  

Agree fully. 

Entertainment is what it is all about.  IMHO, a team with a winning records for 10 years in a row grants more entertainment to fans vs. a team that wins one Super Bowl in a decade and has 9 losing seasons in the same decade.  

Also... The best team of the season does not always win the Superbowl.  It takes a lot of luck, timing and help from the refs.  Most of the Pittsburgh Steeler's Super Bowl wins came courtesy of the refs giving them a lot of help in the playoffs.  Go back to every single Super Bowl winner and look at their playoff path to the trophy.  You'll find most of those teams got a few breaks at the right time.  

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Exactly this, I've been shouting this for years and it's the truth.  The Jets were an elite AFC team, we had a golden age, if not for Pennington being made of glass we'd have gone 15 consecutive years with a non-losing season.

Parcells was either God or lucky, he brought with him a great coaching staff, some loyal key players, got a HOF center and a HOF running back, and stumbled into a Pro Bowl scrub quarterback.  Followed that up with 4 first rounders which set up the Edwards years.  That was an overnight rebuild, a ton of proven veterans and draft picks that hit at a time that Kelly and Marino were non-factors and Brady was a nobody.  Perfect timing.  Jets were the team that pounced on the AFCE when it was weak.

This is what I was hoping for from Saleh and Douglas.  Exciting new coach!  A ton of cap money!  But to date, no one has followed Saleh here, Douglas hasn't spent enough to get the likes of a Mawae or a Martin, and it doesn't look like Mims is the second coming of Keyshawn.  And, of course, Darnold isn't very likely to have a stud season like Testaverde, and we didn't get Watson.

SAR I

Agree with everything until this one little thing at the end.  The relavance of a Mims/Keyshawn comparison?  One was the overall #1 draft pick while the other was bottom of round 2, some 59 picks later.  Were we expecting the same production on the field?  Really?  Otherwise, spot on.  On the grade scale, I'll give JD a C+ this year for an early grade, but of course it is incomplete as of now.  Grabbed a true #2 WR for a #2 WR price, no bargain and maybe a slight overpay there. We now have a pair of #2s and Keelan Cole.  Not what I expected. With Davis, there's upside but basically he's on his 2nd chance in the NFL.   Got a pass rusher with an upside but with a nasty injury history, and all Jets fans know how well that works out for us...  always.   Got a true jag for guard and hoepfully he is not going to be the starter.  OL and CB practically not addressed all in free agency so at best we plug in jags or rookies there in 2021.  No help there in FA.  Not sure how anyone could be on cloud 9 over Douglas for this free agency. I'm long beyond feeling ok simply because it is not Maccagnan.  Those days are behind us.  I want more.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, Icer said:

I kinda feel like the Jets died with that 99 yard Victor Cruz touchdown

I always felt that the key game in that season happened earlier - the Sunday night home loss to the Pats. We actually had a chance to take over the division that night and totally blew it. 

Regardless, I think that team always had a very limited window with Sanchez as the QB. As the talent around Mark deteriorated, so did the Jets.  

[Jets723]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Between 1998 and 2010, over 13 seasons, the New York Jets made the playoffs 7 times (>50%), Had >=.500 record 10 times, and played in three AFC Championship Games.  Over this time the Jets offense finished below 19th only twice.

Since the end of that era (the last 10 years), the Jets have had only a single winning season, have finished last in the AFC East 5 times (with two more 3rd place finishes), and have not made a single playoff appearance.  Over that same period, the Jets Offense has been ranked higher than 24th only one time, in our only winning season in that period.

For all the talk of "we don't want mediocrity, just making the playoffs isn't enough", I for one sure would like to go back to the Jets of 1998-2010 as opposed to what we've been doing the last decade.  Yes, a full decade now of the worst abject failure an NFL team can put forward.

Can Saleh and JD change the course?  We can only hope.

But man, we really did have it pretty good from 98-10, and maybe we never really realized it.

Agreed.  I think fans act like we were the Browns for so many years.  We actually had a pretty good run from 98-10.  Granted these past 10 years have sucked but it’s not like we have been mediocre for 20 years.  We have gone to. 3 AFC title games since 98 which isn’t that bad 

[CanadienJetsFan]

 

 

I’d like to take a walk down revisit lane with all of you guys but we’ve been down this  “ who’s fault is really “ road  too many times before.

 

Let’s just hope the people in charge now Know what they’re doing.

[slats]

43 minutes ago, SAR I said:

People I trust say that the 2022 draft is going to be awful for quarterbacks.  So if the Jets pass on a blue chipper this year and we need one next year, they aren't there.  We'd have to get an old free agent or someone struggling elsewhere.

This is why the move is to take Wilson or Fields and keep Darnold.  You can trade one of them next year.  

SAR I

This time last year, people you trust probably didn’t even know who Zach Wilson was. 

[jetstream23]

21 minutes ago, Icer said:

I kinda feel like the Jets died with that 99 yard Victor Cruz touchdown

They died when Victor Green let Easy Ed McCaffrey loose in the secondary on a 3rd down with a 10 point lead in the second half of the 1998 AFC Championship Game.  Like 3 plays later Terrell Davis was in the endzone, the kickoff hung in the Mile High air and was recovered by Denver and we were done.  There's no doubt in my mind had the Jets snuck out of Denver with that win they would have won the Super Bowl against a very underwhelming Falcons team that was lucky to win the NFC Championship Game in Minnesota after the Vikings missed a FG.

[Jet_Engine1]

2 hours ago, section314 said:

What were the defensive #'s from 98-10?  Bet better than the offense.

You must be young.

 

The Jets offenses from 1997-2008 carried the teams. 

[Icer]

18 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I always felt that the key game in that season happened earlier - the Sunday night home loss to the Pats. We actually had a chance to take over the division that night and totally blew it. 

Regardless, I think that team always had a very limited window with Sanchez as the QB. As the talent around Mark deteriorated, so did the Jets.  

That's another good one, but aside from the playoff win the litany of failures the Jets had against New England was so large that I didn't put much stock into it. The Cruz TD on the other hand, the team never recovered from it and it was the last time Rex was in position to make a run.

[SAR I]

20 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Regardless, I think that team always had a very limited window with Sanchez as the QB. As the talent around Mark deteriorated, so did the Jets.  

Two thoughts on the '09/'10 team:

The mistake was drafting Sanchez in the first place.  Looking back, that was a win now team loaded with older players and free agents, it wasn't sustainable, the two year window is all we had.  So Tannenbaum should have gone hard after Favre or worked a trade for an established win-now quarterback and not banked on a rookie.

The thing about both AFC Championship Games is that if the D played up to its potential both times we go to back-to-back Super Bowls.  That team was built to win on D and they are the ones who didn't do their jobs.  You can't blame the O or Tannenbaum as Sanchez played well.  The D let the Colts eat their lunch in the second half and the Steelers ran roughshod over a D that Bart Scott himself admitted 'didn't get off the bus'.

SAR I