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47 minutes ago, SAR I said:

People I trust say that the 2022 draft is going to be awful for quarterbacks.  So if the Jets pass on a blue chipper this year and we need one next year, they aren't there.  We'd have to get an old free agent or someone struggling elsewhere.

This is why the move is to take Wilson or Fields and keep Darnold.  You can trade one of them next year.  

SAR I

I think the decisions are mutually exclusive and fairly binary....

1. If Wilson is evaluated by the Jets to be at least as good of a prospect as Darnold (or better), you take him.  No debate.

2. Now that you've taken Wilson and still have Darnold, you attempt to trade Darnold for what you consider fair value (a high 2nd?).  If the Draft rolls on and the offers aren't there then you keep Sam and attempt to trade him in-season this coming October/November possibly to a team that loses its QB to injury or a team meandering with a losing record who thought they had a good QB but are ready to give up (Saints if Winston/Hill experiment is failing, Bears if Dalton is flopping, Steelers if Ben is toast and they didn't get anyone, etc.).

Joe D. seems to be a fairly logical and straight forward thinker.  He's a Buy Low, Sell High kinda guy, and I don't think he'd hesitate at all to hold onto both Wilson and Sam heading into the season if it's what is best for the team.  The idea that the situation would be "uncomfortable" doesn't really matter.  Teams do things like draft Quinnen Williams at #3 while having a Leo Williams on the team all the time.

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Between 1998 and 2010, over 13 seasons, the New York Jets made the playoffs 7 times (>50%), Had >=.500 record 10 times, and played in three AFC Championship Games.  Over this time the Jets offen

This is why I continue to not hate the idea of Darnold being the guy this year. Trade down from that #2, build the rest of the roster, and see what he does. Gives the rookie HC and OC an opportunity t

I too miss competitive football....

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Between 1998 and 2010, over 13 seasons, the New York Jets made the playoffs 7 times (>50%), Had >=.500 record 10 times, and played in three AFC Championship Games.  Over this time the Jets offense finished below 19th only twice.

Since the end of that era (the last 10 years), the Jets have had only a single winning season, have finished last in the AFC East 5 times (with two more 3rd place finishes), and have not made a single playoff appearance.  Over that same period, the Jets Offense has been ranked higher than 24th only one time, in our only winning season in that period.

For all the talk of "we don't want mediocrity, just making the playoffs isn't enough", I for one sure would like to go back to the Jets of 1998-2010 as opposed to what we've been doing the last decade.  Yes, a full decade now of the worst abject failure an NFL team can put forward.

Can Saleh and JD change the course?  We can only hope.

But man, we really did have it pretty good from 98-10, and maybe we never really realized it.

That's loser talk, man. Jets should strive for a championship and just skip the whole playoff shenanigans to go right to the Superbowl. No one ever said you have to be in the playoffs to be in the Superbowl. 

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12 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

You must be young.

 

The Jets offenses from 1997-2008 carried the teams. 

Thanks for the compliment, but not really. Did some research and answered my own question, as far the AFC championship years at least.   This is by total yards.........98  offense was 4th  defense 7th.   2009   offense was 20th,  defense 1. 2010   offense was 11th, defense 3.   That's an average for the 3 Championship years of  11th for offense, 4th for defense.

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6 minutes ago, Icer said:

That's another good one, but aside from the playoff win the litany of failures the Jets had against New England was so large that I didn't put much stock into it. The Cruz TD on the other hand, the team never recovered from it and it was the last time Rex was in position to make a run.

The 2011 Jets were 8-5 with 3 games against losing teams, another 11-5 season and a playoff run was right there for the taking.  But the D fell apart in Philadelphia and against the Giants and the choke was on against the Dolphins and that was it.

Rex Ryan had enough O to get to a Super Bowl.  The whole team was built to win on D and Ground & Pound.  And they didn't.

SAR I

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22 hours ago, Beerfish said:

When the Jets have been good (and many other teams) it has started with a great oline.  Not a partly good oline, not a we can get by oline but a great oline.

In many cases until your team is decent to good you cannot solve oline via FA.  Douglas has to not fall for the pretty toys in the draft and keep drafting oline fairly high.

Totally agree, but I don't think that it therefore requires using 2-3 first round picks' values on Sewell. I don't think you do either, but it was never required. 

For most of that latter-day Jets' golden era, their left tackle was either an age 33-34 Jumbo Elliot (former 2nd round pick who once made a single probowl for his 11-game performance in 1993) or 4th round pick Jason Fabini. 

Right tackle was Fabini, then Ryan Young, then McKenzie. Not a 1st or 2nd round pick among them. 

The problem started with the team somehow believing in Adrian Jones, and that coincided with Fabini's back problems, before taking Brick at #4 and then (effectively) trading the last serious pass rusher we've had to change from Mawae to Mangold. 

This team needs more investment in the line than they've given. That doesn't therefore mean only a high 1st round pick will suffice. IMO that's where there's the disconnect for many who can't see past the biggest name.

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As soon as the owner started getting more involved in football decisions, all went to hell. For the first 10 years or so Woody largely stayed out of day to day football ops. He hired people and let them doo their job. Parcells for all his flaws setup a good enough culture and good enough players to sustain some winning despite some serious dolts in their jobs. When things totally went to hell was when Woody decided to play head of football ops by having both GM and HC report to him directly. 

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16 minutes ago, section314 said:

Thanks for the compliment, but not really. Did some research and answered my own question, as far the AFC championship years at least.   This is by total yards.........98  offense was 4th  defense 7th.   2009   offense was 20th,  defense 1. 2010   offense was 11th, defense 3.   That's an average for the 3 Championship years of  11th for offense, 4th for defense.

The Jets D for much of the 13 year period was quite good.  I believe it was 7 of 13 were top 10 finishes for the D.

And like the Offense, it quickly went into steep decline, albeit not as much or as bad as the Offense.

 

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Between 1998 and 2010, over 13 seasons, the New York Jets made the playoffs 7 times (>50%), Had >=.500 record 10 times, and played in three AFC Championship Games.  Over this time the Jets offense finished below 19th only twice.

Since the end of that era (the last 10 years), the Jets have had only a single winning season, have finished last in the AFC East 5 times (with two more 3rd place finishes), and have not made a single playoff appearance.  Over that same period, the Jets Offense has been ranked higher than 24th only one time, in our only winning season in that period.

For all the talk of "we don't want mediocrity, just making the playoffs isn't enough", I for one sure would like to go back to the Jets of 1998-2010 as opposed to what we've been doing the last decade.  Yes, a full decade now of the worst abject failure an NFL team can put forward.

Can Saleh and JD change the course?  We can only hope.

But man, we really did have it pretty good from 98-10, and maybe we never really realized it.

consider too that during that time period the qb, chaddy, was injured for at least 3 seasons and all of the head coaches except for parcells were being ripped for being stupid.  even parcells got his fair share of criticism for going into 1999 with oil two qb's and then trying to stick with mirer so long.

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45 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

As soon as the owner started getting more involved in football decisions, all went to hell. For the first 10 years or so Woody largely stayed out of day to day football ops. He hired people and let them doo their job. Parcells for all his flaws setup a good enough culture and good enough players to sustain some winning despite some serious dolts in their jobs. When things totally went to hell was when Woody decided to play head of football ops by having both GM and HC report to him directly. 

i think there's some truth in this.  imo woody really started to get involved when he started pushing for a new stadium which resulted in the met life monstrosity.  some things he did do well like get the atlantic health facility built but once he laid out all that green for the stadium he started pinching pennies.

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9 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i think there's some truth in this.  imo woody really started to get involved when he started pushing for a new stadium which resulted in the met life monstrosity.  some things he did do well like get the atlantic health facility built but once he laid out all that green for the stadium he started pinching pennies.

I think the answer here is very simple.  We have never fixed the QB problem.  I mean, look at Tampa and look at Buffalo.  They aren't great teams by any stretch.  But they have exceptional incremental QB play and they won 4-5 more games than their talent would allow.  Happened to the Jets in 2008 and 2015.  

Fix the quarterback, we fix all our problems.  It's why its extremely important that we do the right thing in this draft.  If Darnold gets to stay and we trade out of #2, could set us back another 3 years.  We are in position to get a top guy, you've got to keep trying until you get him.

SAR I

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6 hours ago, Warfish said:

Between 1998 and 2010, over 13 seasons, the New York Jets made the playoffs 7 times (>50%), Had >=.500 record 10 times, and played in three AFC Championship Games.  Over this time the Jets offense finished below 19th only twice.

Since the end of that era (the last 10 years), the Jets have had only a single winning season, have finished last in the AFC East 5 times (with two more 3rd place finishes), and have not made a single playoff appearance.  Over that same period, the Jets Offense has been ranked higher than 24th only one time, in our only winning season in that period.

For all the talk of "we don't want mediocrity, just making the playoffs isn't enough", I for one sure would like to go back to the Jets of 1998-2010 as opposed to what we've been doing the last decade.  Yes, a full decade now of the worst abject failure an NFL team can put forward.

Can Saleh and JD change the course?  We can only hope.

But man, we really did have it pretty good from 98-10, and maybe we never really realized it.

Hindsight always looks good in the rear view mirror.  We all want change as most of us have posted here throughout most of this time.  Rex and Bart and the rest of that group are missed but that would be nice if JD can draft.  Hope is eternal.

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5 hours ago, SAR I said:

People I trust say that the 2022 draft is going to be awful for quarterbacks.  So if the Jets pass on a blue chipper this year and we need one next year, they aren't there.  We'd have to get an old free agent or someone struggling elsewhere.

This is why the move is to take Wilson or Fields and keep Darnold.  You can trade one of them next year.  

SAR I

I'd agree with taking either Fields or Wilson at #2.

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3 hours ago, SAR I said:

I think the answer here is very simple.  We have never fixed the QB problem.  I mean, look at Tampa and look at Buffalo.  They aren't great teams by any stretch.  But they have exceptional incremental QB play and they won 4-5 more games than their talent would allow.  Happened to the Jets in 2008 and 2015.  

Fix the quarterback, we fix all our problems.  It's why its extremely important that we do the right thing in this draft.  If Darnold gets to stay and we trade out of #2, could set us back another 3 years.  We are in position to get a top guy, you've got to keep trying until you get him.

SAR I

That’s all well and good but I don’t get the sense these college QBs can be evaluated properly this year.  That’s a huge problem.  I get the whole Trevor Lawrence generational schtick but how do you factor in the one season wonders like Wilson or fields or Jones and so on? And we’ve all heard the whole fix the QBs schtick too. We can point to 2015 and fitzy but he also had two very complimentary receivers and a run game.  When decker went out in 2016 so did the season.  The point being that the 2010 and 2015 teams were good in other ways that turned fitzy and Sanchez into winners.  It happens but it hasn’t been sustainable for the jets.

 

I guess the big question is would darnold do as well on either of those teams?

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29 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

I'd agree with taking either Fields or Wilson at #2.

That is a must.  We must get a new quarterback at #2.  Next years draft looks weak, Saleh will push us out of a top ten pick anyway, and we either whiffed or didn't even try to get a QB in free agency.

The question is whether or not LaFleur wants to see what Darnold's got before punting him to the curb.  Save the cheerleader, save the world.  Fix the quarterback, save the Jets.  It has been this way for 50 years.  Richard Todd vs. Matt Robinson feels like, at the very least, would be a lot of fun.  If we're going to suck, at least entertain us.

SAR I

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18 minutes ago, rangerous said:

That’s all well and good but I don’t get the sense these college QBs can be evaluated properly this year.  That’s a huge problem.  I get the whole Trevor Lawrence generational schtick but how do you factor in the one season wonders like Wilson or fields or Jones and so on? And we’ve all heard the whole fix the QBs schtick too. We can point to 2015 and fitzy but he also had two very complimentary receivers and a run game.  When decker went out in 2016 so did the season.  The point being that the 2010 and 2015 teams were good in other ways that turned fitzy and Sanchez into winners.  It happens but it hasn’t been sustainable for the jets.

I guess the big question is would darnold do as well on either of those teams?

The Chargers weren't built to throw Air Coryell at the league last year, but Justin Herbert was a stud and so it was.  Shows you how unimportant preseason and coaching actually is I guess.

This is a quarterback league.  Until we have a quarterback, none of this other stuff matters, no one wants to be the Chicago Bears.  Justin Fields could outplay Josh Allen, it's not inconceivable that a punishing rookie who runs and throws and has 4 years less wear and tear on his body could be the best QB in the AFC East.

SAR I

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1998-2010 was certainly a good stretch of football for the Jets but simply being competitive and getting close a few times shouldn’t be the bar. When we haven’t won it all in 50+ years then it’s time to do it again. Many of us like myself would like to see a SB victory just once in our lives.
 

It’s sort of like when Messier came to the Rangers, he came to win a championship and break the curse, Douglas and the rest of the crew have the same expectations. Not “I just want to be decent again.”

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

The Chargers weren't built to throw Air Coryell at the league last year, but Justin Herbert was a stud and so it was.  Shows you how unimportant preseason and coaching actually is I guess.

This is a quarterback league.  Until we have a quarterback, none of this other stuff matters, no one wants to be the Chicago Bears. 

I agree that it’s a quarterbacks league but coaches absolutely matter. Other than the QB the coach is the most important part of an NFL team imo. 

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7 hours ago, SAR I said:

Two thoughts on the '09/'10 team:

The mistake was drafting Sanchez in the first place.  Looking back, that was a win now team loaded with older players and free agents, it wasn't sustainable, the two year window is all we had.  So Tannenbaum should have gone hard after Favre or worked a trade for an established win-now quarterback and not banked on a rookie.

The thing about both AFC Championship Games is that if the D played up to its potential both times we go to back-to-back Super Bowls.  That team was built to win on D and they are the ones who didn't do their jobs.  You can't blame the O or Tannenbaum as Sanchez played well.  The D let the Colts eat their lunch in the second half and the Steelers ran roughshod over a D that Bart Scott himself admitted 'didn't get off the bus'.

SAR I

If Tanny didn't give Farve his release he would have had to stay with the Jets if he wanted to play..

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10 hours ago, SAR I said:

The Chargers weren't built to throw Air Coryell at the league last year, but Justin Herbert was a stud and so it was.  Shows you how unimportant preseason and coaching actually is I guess.

This is a quarterback league.  Until we have a quarterback, none of this other stuff matters, no one wants to be the Chicago Bears.  Justin Fields could outplay Josh Allen, it's not inconceivable that a punishing rookie who runs and throws and has 4 years less wear and tear on his body could be the best QB in the AFC East.

SAR I

some good points.  i'm not saying the jets don't need a qb.  but the recent success of guys like fitzy and sanchez was more due to how the rest of the team played as opposed to the ability of the qb's.  like any other player they need one that's enough.  people seem to malign the the term game manager but these are the guys that know how to play the game and run the plays.  they're not the guys who put up 400 yards per game.

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What Warfish is saying seems logical and even obvious 

But somewhere along the way Jets fans have determined its better to win 2 games and get the high draft pick than win 6 or 8 and build something 

What we have now is a roster full of players who don't know how to win 

Every win builds a program and every loss tears it down. The jets are at rock bottom. 

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2 hours ago, rangerous said:

some good points.  i'm not saying the jets don't need a qb.  but the recent success of guys like fitzy and sanchez was more due to how the rest of the team played as opposed to the ability of the qb's.  like any other player they need one that's enough.  people seem to malign the the term game manager but these are the guys that know how to play the game and run the plays.  they're not the guys who put up 400 yards per game.

Certainly, the Jets need both a solid team of 52 and a franchise quarterback.

All I'm saying is that, this season, we are in a rare position to have both Darnold and Wilson/Watson in camp and see which one is better.  This worked in '15 when Fitz stepped in and  had the best season a Jets QB ever had, problem was he wasn't the guy to build around-  though you could argue that keeping Fitzpatrick these last 5 seasons would have produced more wins and led to a better roster as we would have had different draft position and attracted more free agents.

The whole NFL game is rigged, it's all about the quarterback.  We should be pursuing the best one possible right now.  Hell, keep Darnold, draft Wilson, and then grab Mac Jones at 23.  We have got to figure this out.  We draft too many defensive linemen and don't draft enough quarterbacks.

SAR I

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I grew up with those 1998-2010 Jets. For all the crap the Jets got we had it pretty good. Was just texting my Jet friends yesterday I can’t believe the AFCCG Pittsburgh game was so long ago. I was at the game with my fake ID partying all day at the Pitt bars. Now I just turned 30 yesterday and the Fitzpatrick year is basically the only good Jet memory of my 20s. Hoping Saleh and JD can turn it around.  

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20 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Mawae and Faneca were added to already promising olines and teams on the upswing

You need a bit of both.   It is good to have 1 or 2 vets to help the rest of the line, and work with them teaching them the tricks of the trade.

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18 hours ago, rangerous said:

i think there's some truth in this.  imo woody really started to get involved when he started pushing for a new stadium which resulted in the met life monstrosity.  some things he did do well like get the atlantic health facility built but once he laid out all that green for the stadium he started pinching pennies.

There's really no evidence that I can see that backs up this whole 'woody is cheap' agenda.  (There are enough problems he has without this one.. lol)

Woody was pushing hard for a Jets Stadium of his own, and there's no way this thing was going to be cheap.  They ended up back at Met Life when crooked Sheldon Silver and the Dolans blocked this so it wouldn't be a threat to MSG.  They were ready to pay.  (Now the experience would have been very different, and might have killed the Jets vibe - but he wasn't being cheap.

image.png.90bf0cc58b833081c2a08be4259c6bbc.png

 

Atlantic health is no doubt an amazing facility, that woody was not cheap on.

Woody doesn't stick with coaches and GMs just because they still have contracts, quite the opposite, he's paying like 3 this year I think. (could be wrong on that).

Reports from the road this year were that the team regularly bought out the hotels so that players could have some normalcy, walk around, and not have to stay in their rooms for covid precautions.

I think some fans confuse not spending to the top of the cap with being cheap, (vs what you can roll-over and use following years) but even that doesn't make sense when you look at the historical numbers that the jets have spent.

Woody isn't cheap.   You can dig him on his decision making and meddling all you want - but it's not a money problem.

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19 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Totally agree, but I don't think that it therefore requires using 2-3 first round picks' values on Sewell. I don't think you do either, but it was never required. 

For most of that latter-day Jets' golden era, their left tackle was either an age 33-34 Jumbo Elliot (former 2nd round pick who once made a single probowl for his 11-game performance in 1993) or 4th round pick Jason Fabini. 

Right tackle was Fabini, then Ryan Young, then McKenzie. Not a 1st or 2nd round pick among them. 

The problem started with the team somehow believing in Adrian Jones, and that coincided with Fabini's back problems. 

This team needs more investment in the line than they've given. That doesn't therefore mean only a high 1st round pick will suffice. IMO that's where there's the disconnect for many who can't see past the biggest name.

Parcells needed jumbo because he biffed the Orlando pace walter Jones draft so he very badly 

They have 1 great lineman right now, and a Meh starter at center. The 3 other positions are below average

Becton is one dude. hes serving pancakes but he can't actually do it all by himself and it's unfair of the jets to ask him to 

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1 minute ago, Edgy said:

There's really no evidence that I can see that backs up this whole 'woody is cheap' agenda.  (There are enough problems he has without this one.. lol)

Woody was pushing hard for a Jets Stadium of his own, and there's no way this thing was going to be cheap.  They ended up back at Met Life when crooked Sheldon Silver and the Dolans blocked this so it wouldn't be a threat to MSG.  They were ready to pay.  (Now the experience would have been very different, and might have killed the Jets vibe - but he wasn't being cheap.

image.png.90bf0cc58b833081c2a08be4259c6bbc.png

 

Atlantic health is no doubt an amazing facility, that woody was not cheap on.

Woody doesn't stick with coaches and GMs just because they still have contracts, quite the opposite, he's paying like 3 this year I think. (could be wrong on that).

Reports from the road this year were that the team regularly bought out the hotels so that players could have some normalcy, walk around, and not have to stay in their rooms for covid precautions.

I think some fans confuse not spending to the top of the cap with being cheap, (vs what you can roll-over and use following years) but even that doesn't make sense when you look at the historical numbers that the jets have spent.

Woody isn't cheap.   You can dig him on his decision making and meddling all you want - but it's not a money problem.

according to Forbes the Johnsons are the 30th richest owners ahead of Bob kraft and the city of green Bay Wisconsin 

They are worth about 5 billion 

The Jets are the 6th most valuable franchise in the league, with an estimated value of 4 billion. Again, according to Forbes 

It's not that the Jets are cheap but they are cash poor compared to other owners. Their main income is the team. Their most valuable asset is also the team.

If the Johnsons were trying to buy the team in 2021 they would not be approved first lack of capital. 

They play a dance with cutting and trading players to get to the cap floor not to get below the ceiling 

If we go year by year they have not spent near the cap since the Rex Era, also the last time they were competitive.

Examples? Last year the team was forced to fly from west coast back rather than rent a resort. They hire Gase over buying Rhule out of baylor. They hire first time hc and first time gm. They have not given a homegrown player a new deal of any size since quincy enunwa. They end up 80 million under a 180 million cap. 

All of this is to say they find ways to get to the floor and still skim cream off the top. Meanwhile Bob kraft empties his similarly sized pockets every year he can to try to win. Other teams go over the cap and restructure (pay) to get back under 

Back in the west side days they were not cheap. That was like a decade ago. Lately they do just enough to keep the lights on 

 

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8 minutes ago, Edgy said:

There's really no evidence that I can see that backs up this whole 'woody is cheap' agenda.  (There are enough problems he has without this one.. lol)

Woody was pushing hard for a Jets Stadium of his own, and there's no way this thing was going to be cheap.  They ended up back at Met Life when crooked Sheldon Silver and the Dolans blocked this so it wouldn't be a threat to MSG.  They were ready to pay.  (Now the experience would have been very different, and might have killed the Jets vibe - but he wasn't being cheap.

image.png.90bf0cc58b833081c2a08be4259c6bbc.png

 

Atlantic health is no doubt an amazing facility, that woody was not cheap on.

Woody doesn't stick with coaches and GMs just because they still have contracts, quite the opposite, he's paying like 3 this year I think. (could be wrong on that).

Reports from the road this year were that the team regularly bought out the hotels so that players could have some normalcy, walk around, and not have to stay in their rooms for covid precautions.

I think some fans confuse not spending to the top of the cap with being cheap, (vs what you can roll-over and use following years) but even that doesn't make sense when you look at the historical numbers that the jets have spent.

Woody isn't cheap.   You can dig him on his decision making and meddling all you want - but it's not a money problem.

Great, great post, Edgy.

Fans want to hate rich owners for a myriad of reasons.  Woody & Christopher Johnson have been generous to players and fans, and there is nothing cheap about how they operate the team.  No one is telling them to not spend money.  No one is telling our GM's not to spend money.  The GM's are either spending it badly or are not spending it at all, it's a personal strategy, not an ownership agenda.  If the Johnsons were cheap they would force coaches and GM's to work until the very last day of their contracts, not cut bait, not pay tens of millions for them to sit at home watching TV.

SAR I

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22 hours ago, Warfish said:

Between 1998 and 2010, over 13 seasons, the New York Jets made the playoffs 7 times (>50%), Had >=.500 record 10 times, and played in three AFC Championship Games.  Over this time the Jets offense finished below 19th only twice.

Since the end of that era (the last 10 years), the Jets have had only a single winning season, have finished last in the AFC East 5 times (with two more 3rd place finishes), and have not made a single playoff appearance.  Over that same period, the Jets Offense has been ranked higher than 24th only one time, in our only winning season in that period.

For all the talk of "we don't want mediocrity, just making the playoffs isn't enough", I for one sure would like to go back to the Jets of 1998-2010 as opposed to what we've been doing the last decade.  Yes, a full decade now of the worst abject failure an NFL team can put forward.

Can Saleh and JD change the course?  We can only hope.

But man, we really did have it pretty good from 98-10, and maybe we never really realized it.

'99 was the year.   We had the best team in the NFL for 1 half and then our super bowl dreams went bust with Vinny's achilles.     

'98 we should have had it too but all of the sudden no one could hold onto the ball in the 2nd half of the Denver game.   I think it turned out that the Broncos were cheating the salary cap that year too and then ended up getting a fine or losing a draft picks.   

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7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Parcells needed jumbo because he biffed the Orlando pace walter Jones draft so he very badly 

They have 1 great lineman right now, and a Meh starter at center. The 3 other positions are below average

Becton is one dude. hes serving pancakes but he can't actually do it all by himself and it's unfair of the jets to ask him to 

Parcells needed Jumbo because he was an enormous tool and not every player responded to his flavor of personality. Some laughed it off; some played better to show him up; some curled up into fetal position. Hence his ever-present need for the so-called "Parcells guys." It's glossed over way too much how he passed on both Pace and Jones - after scaring Peyton Manning into returning to Tennessee instead of declaring in '97 - for Farrior, whom he promptly benched after 1 season, plus relative table scraps compensation for trading down from such high slots. Can you even imagine trading down from #1 to #8 and not even recouping a single 2nd round pick? I think the highest pick he got in return was 3(6) and he traded down from that one, too. That draft had 6 "blue chip" graded prospects, so of course he trades down to #8.

I agree with you on the state of the current OL more than I disagree, but where we differ is in how high of a pick is needed to improve it with any one player.

Fant is at least an adequate pass blocker against most opponents, for as much as (again we both agree) he was a sucky miscalculation + hedge signing over Conklin - just $4MM/yr difference, 2 years younger, 50 starts' and an all-pro selection of being more accomplished, never lost a starting job competition to the likes of a bust like Ifedi - because he once was entering the season as Seattle's starting LT before missing that season on IR. His run blocking is (or at least last year was) nonexistent. Maybe that improves with both some scheme changes and better play next to him (see what it did for Ferguson to have Adrien Clarke replaced by even a has-been level Alan Faneca).

I'm still no great fan of that addition (yet; keeping an open mind as much as I'm capable), but I'm much more concerned with the guards than this one season's RT. 

My guess is Douglas is going to draft one G/T prospect either at #23 or #33, and then have a 4-way competition among the rest of them to see who ends up as - per 16 Candles - the King of the Dipshits to win the other starting guard position. In fairness it might not even be a bad plan for a year, considering the team still has two #1s and both their day-2 picks next year, not even counting any others they add in the next month by either trading down from #2 and/or if they trade Darnold. 

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19 minutes ago, bitonti said:

according to Forbes the Johnsons are the 30th richest owners ahead of Bob kraft and the city of green Bay Wisconsin 

They are worth about 5 billion 

The Jets are the 6th most valuable franchise in the league, with an estimated value of 4 billion. Again, according to Forbes 

It's not that the Jets are cheap but they are cash poor compared to other owners. Their main income is the team. Their most valuable asset is also the team.

The Jets are #2 in attendance in the entire NFL, #1 in the AFC, and have been at or near that lofty position since MetLife opened a decade ago.  The value of the franchise has grown from the $400M Woody paid in 2000 to $3.6B.  They play in the largest city in the United States and have more fans, paying and otherwise, than teams like the Patriots, Broncos, Ravens, and Chiefs. 

This theory that the Johnsons are cash poor is ridiculous.  Sure, they may have less money than other owners, but it doesn't mean they are struggling or are holding the Jets back in any way.  The Johnsons are guilty of making bad hires, nothing more.  Hopefully they got it right this time with Douglas and Saleh.

You've been pushing this nonsense for years.  Stop already.

SAR I

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2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The Jets are #2 in attendance in the entire NFL, #1 in the AFC, and have been at or near that lofty position since MetLife opened a decade ago.  The value of the franchise has grown from the $400M Woody paid in 2000 to $3.6B.  They play in the largest city in the United States and have more fans, paying and otherwise, than teams like the Patriots, Broncos, Ravens, and Chiefs. 

This theory that the Johnsons are cash poor is ridiculous.  Sure, they may have less money than other owners, but it doesn't mean they are struggling or are holding the Jets back in any way.  The Johnsons are guilty of making bad hires, nothing more.  Hopefully they got it right this time with Douglas and Saleh.

You've been pushing this nonsense for years.  Stop already.

SAR I

Amen to that!

 

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33 minutes ago, Edgy said:

There's really no evidence that I can see that backs up this whole 'woody is cheap' agenda.  (There are enough problems he has without this one.. lol)

Woody was pushing hard for a Jets Stadium of his own, and there's no way this thing was going to be cheap.  They ended up back at Met Life when crooked Sheldon Silver and the Dolans blocked this so it wouldn't be a threat to MSG.  They were ready to pay.  (Now the experience would have been very different, and might have killed the Jets vibe - but he wasn't being cheap.

image.png.90bf0cc58b833081c2a08be4259c6bbc.png

 

Atlantic health is no doubt an amazing facility, that woody was not cheap on.

Woody doesn't stick with coaches and GMs just because they still have contracts, quite the opposite, he's paying like 3 this year I think. (could be wrong on that).

Reports from the road this year were that the team regularly bought out the hotels so that players could have some normalcy, walk around, and not have to stay in their rooms for covid precautions.

I think some fans confuse not spending to the top of the cap with being cheap, (vs what you can roll-over and use following years) but even that doesn't make sense when you look at the historical numbers that the jets have spent.

Woody isn't cheap.   You can dig him on his decision making and meddling all you want - but it's not a money problem.

historically the jets have not been cheap.  my point is that after laying out all that green for met life and atlantic health maybe he started to look at the money more carefully.  and then who knows how much control he maintained once he went overseas for the past 4 years.

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