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The 2021 Linebacker Group


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Just now, joewilly12 said:

Currently he's the best LB on the roster. 

And although a fit at MLB I'm not sure Mosley is ideal.  Seems more 3-4 ILB to me.  And when you're paying a guy what the Jets are paying him that player needs to be an ideal fit.

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3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

He’s too slow for 4-3

 

2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

And although a fit at MLB I'm not sure Mosley is ideal.  Seems more 3-4 ILB to me.  And when you're paying a guy what the Jets are paying him that player needs to be an ideal fit.

I never said he was right for the system I said he was the best LB on the roster. 

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1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

He’s too slow for 4-3

I would keep him for this reason & this reason alone:

He can read plays.

he is proven & he’s instinctual. If his speed proves to be his achilles heel this season, he will be moved. 

not enough starting options out there for me to move on him so soon.

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We basically have to play Mosely and cut him after this year because no one is taking that contract.

But agreed, given we have next to no one at the other OLB spot and Saleh's penchant for LBs who cover, Owusu-Koramoah makes at lot of sense at 23.

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4 minutes ago, ElBarrioJets said:

We basically have to play Mosely and cut him after this year because no one is taking that contract.

But agreed, given we have next to no one at the other OLB spot and Saleh's penchant for LBs who cover, Owusu-Koramoah makes at lot of sense at 23.

 

And for a fanbase that wants a new QB, an upgrade at IOL, a new CB, a "weapon" at WR or RB, etc. people are going to absolutely lose their minds if the Jets go with a LB in their first three picks.  But I think there's a 50% chance it happens.  If not, then maybe at #66.

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The Jerrad Davis signing was a funny one, depending on if you think he is a fit at the Sam or Will LB.   It seemed like he was a better fit for the Mike.  

Mosely would be ok at the Mike.  

The LBs need a complete upgrade, which is why I would sign a CB, because they are actually available.  G and 4-3 LBs less so.  

Cashman will play well half the games.  That is a start.  I would have signed Hewitt. 

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29 minutes ago, varjet said:

Cashman will play well half the games.  That is a start.  I would have signed Hewitt. 

I said that Cashman should be cut before last season, and I will repeat that he should be cut before this season.  He is at best an average linebacker, who gets hurt much more than he plays.  

He needs to go.

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This is a great thread and one I had been tempted to start. Appreciate you getting the ball rolling. I think it’s the more than one player position group with the most questions currently.

As pointed out above, some errors with that list IMO. Huff for example is pretty clearly going to be playing with his hand in the dirt if he’s on the roster, he’s Carl Lawson size. Saleh’s linebackers in SF were 235 or less.

Jets don’t currently have a lot of fits at linebacker on the roster. I expect they attack the position pretty hard via the draft.

Mosley is bigger than Saleh’s guys were and not crazy fast to make up for it so I expect he either gets moved or gets the Trumaine Johnson/Le’Veon Bell treatment, but maybe he’s a pleasant surprise.

Davis presumably has a role and I’d guess Phillips and Cashman make the roster. Leaves room for around two or three guys in remaining FA, draft, and UDFA pending Mosley?

Posted this elsewhere but Saleh’s 2020 LB group was composed of a 2018 third round pick, 2019 fifth round pick, and 2019 UDFA. I kind of hope it’s less of a Rex Ryan “I coach the DL and premium assets will be allocated there accordingly” situation and more like what they did in SF. Seems like they can make it work with smaller, fast guys, maybe a converted safety, and they don’t need to be premium picks. Maybe a third rounder on a MLB and a couple day three picks on small athletic guys and just let the position shake out from there would be cool.

It definitely needs serious work, just not sure how they attack it.

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37 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

And for a fanbase that wants a new QB, an upgrade at IOL, a new CB, a "weapon" at WR or RB, etc. people are going to absolutely lose their minds if the Jets go with a LB in their first three picks.  But I think there's a 50% chance it happens.  If not, then maybe at #66.

Oh totally. That's why it's the right move. 

Word is out on O-K and he's not lasting until our 2nd rounder. 

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Picking a LB before the seattle 3rd rounder will instantly make me think Douglas is just another clueless mccagnan type with no clue how to build a team that simply panders to a positional coach who is now the head coach.

We have done nothing at QB

We have done nothing at Oline

We have done nothing at CB

We have done nothing at TE

We have done almost nothing at RB

We have once again as usual as always have invested more in the defense than the offense in FA.

A pass rusher or a LB before the other needs will be idiotic.  Yes I will be that blunt.

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Blake Cashman can play OLB in a 4-3. And Mosley is fine at the starting Mike.

I think we really just need 1 starting OLB. I wouldn’t go to crazy on this group. Yes it can be improved further but it’s better to spend picks along the OL and at Corner.

WLB: Starter TBD; Backup Cashman

MLB: Starter Mosley; Backup Phillips
SLB:  Starter Davis

If we are able to get an additional 2nd for Darnold, we can grab a guy like Jabril Cox and just roll with those guys.

Get an outside corner and a slot corner and that’s it. All other draft picks should really be used on the offense.  

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Lol Mosley.

We’re so used to sodomy as Jets fans we don’t even blink at handing an ILB $50 million and getting a single game out of that contract. 

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Picking a LB before the seattle 3rd rounder will instantly make me think Douglas is just another clueless mccagnan type with no clue how to build a team that simply panders to a positional coach who is now the head coach.

We have done nothing at QB

We have done nothing at Oline

We have done nothing at CB

We have done nothing at TE

We have done almost nothing at RB

We have once again as usual as always have invested more in the defense than the offense in FA.

A pass rusher or a LB before the other needs will be idiotic.  Yes I will be that blunt.

Far from pandering. LB is the weakest unit on the team. Don’t be surprised when JD uses a pick in the first three rounds to help address it.  

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Defenses play a majority of their snaps in nickel at this point with 2 LB on the field.  It also seems like Saleh might be using 3 safety formations.  I really hope they plan on bringing back Poole and upgrading our cornerbacks further, but it doesn't seem like the o-line or secondary are priorities in free agency.  It's too bad because those position groups, along with QB, were the biggest contributing factors to a 2-14 record.

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Picking a LB before the seattle 3rd rounder will instantly make me think Douglas is just another clueless mccagnan type with no clue how to build a team that simply panders to a positional coach who is now the head coach.

We have done nothing at QB

We have done nothing at Oline

We have done nothing at CB

We have done nothing at TE

We have done almost nothing at RB

We have once again as usual as always have invested more in the defense than the offense in FA.

A pass rusher or a LB before the other needs will be idiotic.  Yes I will be that blunt.

I agree with this post 100 percent...I'm waiting to see what the draft looks like if its not offensive heavy then its just the same philosophy we've always had minus the overpaying for over the hill vets.

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Picking a LB before the seattle 3rd rounder will instantly make me think Douglas is just another clueless mccagnan type with no clue how to build a team that simply panders to a positional coach who is now the head coach.

We have done nothing at QB

We have done nothing at Oline

We have done nothing at CB

We have done nothing at TE

We have done almost nothing at RB

We have once again as usual as always have invested more in the defense than the offense in FA.

A pass rusher or a LB before the other needs will be idiotic.  Yes I will be that blunt.

Strong disagree. Our TE group is adequate; it doesn't have a stud but it's not a wasteland. Our IOL can be upgraded, but you can get very good, starting quality guards and centers in the second and third rounds. Shanahan offenses never allocate premium assets to RB (and yet still end up with top tier backs, almost like the system allows for RB success without an elite player) and expecting them to have spent meaningful FA money (or to spend draft picks there) is ignorant (sorry, BF, but it's true). CBs are deemphasized in Saleh's defense (they're playing zone) and are helped immensely by a great pass rush. If Jaelean Philips or Kwity Paye is available at 23 I wouldn't be upset with that pick at all. And Zaven Collins is being talked about like the next great NFL off-ball LB, too.

Of course, it depends on who is available where, and my personal preference is for Vera-Tucker at 23 (can start at OG and then kick out to RT if we want to move on from Fant next year), but the idea that a LB/Edge pick is a waste is just wrong.

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Picking a LB before the seattle 3rd rounder will instantly make me think Douglas is just another clueless mccagnan type with no clue how to build a team that simply panders to a positional coach who is now the head coach.

We have done nothing at QB

We have done nothing at Oline

We have done nothing at CB

We have done nothing at TE

We have done almost nothing at RB

We have once again as usual as always have invested more in the defense than the offense in FA.

A pass rusher or a LB before the other needs will be idiotic.  Yes I will be that blunt.

we signed two WR 

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34 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

Far from pandering. LB is the weakest unit on the team. Don’t be surprised when JD uses a pick in the first three rounds to help address it.  

LB is also the LEAST premium position on a football team.  And no LB is not any weaker than Cb or oline or TE or any of those other units.

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

LB is also the LEAST premium position on a football team.  And no LB is not any weaker than Cb or oline or TE or any of those other units.

Austin and Hall show much more promise than Davis and Cashman. But you’re right- CBS need work too. Expect a FA and high draft pick.

I get the disgust at thinking we might pick defense early in the draft. But with how this roster is constructed, it’s happening. Besides QB our biggest needs are at OLB, CB and G. With an expected draft day trade one way or another we should have six picks in the top three rounds.

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5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Yes and?  I did not mention Wr in the list and We still have spent more on defense than offense.

i'm just saying we went from no NFL starting caliber talent or maybe 1 guy, to now 2 or 3...that is huge upgrade for the offense. ALl the pikcs he has done help instill the new system, all pretty smart. 

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3 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Moving to a 4-3 resets the LB group a bit.  The Jets have made two somewhat underwhelming FA additions in Jarrad Davis and Del'Shawn Phillips and we're expecting several departures from a meh group of overachievers the past few years in guys like Hewitt and Langi.  The current composition of the group per @Sarge4Tide is as follows...

Important to note that guys like CJ Mosley, Cashman, Davis, etc. are still noted as ILB and not MLB.  (ILB typically used 3-4 inside linebackers and MLB for true middle linebackers in a 4-3).

TBD if any of the guys in red return, but what do we think about this group right now?  I've posited in the Draft Forum that LB could be an area addressed by the Jets much earlier in the Draft than people expect.  Not just because it's a favorite group of Saleh (he started as a LB coach) or the mediocre level of talent we have, but because of the transition to 4-3 that's taking place.  We just witnessed the Jets make several significant additions to the DLine in order to accelerate this transition but I'm not sure enough has happened at the second level to usher in this change.  

If you had to name starters based on the above group as it stands right now are we looking at Davis (OLB, a move from ILB) - Mosley (MLB) - Huff (OLB) ?  That may not cut it for a Head Coach who is used to having guys like Fred Warner roaming around.  Let's also remember that Saleh rarely rushed his LBs at the QB and loves LBs that can drop into coverage. 

Huff is an interesting player and I honestly don't know his schematic fit on a defense that's going through a transition like this.  But I do know that as UDFA he stepped in early and played a significant role last year, especially while Gregg Williams was the D Coordinator.  I can't recall the reason his playing time dropped so significantly (injury?) as we headed towards the end of the year but it did coincide with Williams being fired after the Raiders game.  Take a look at Huff's game log below....

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HuffBr00/gamelog/2020/

We've talked about the DLine a lot around here (best position group on the team?) and the concerns in the Secondary (needs at CB), but I feel like the LB group is being overlooked a bit.  Feels like the Jets need to make some type of significant move there (Draft, trade, signing).

Quick comment is that the 3-4 always has the 3 lineman just occupying blockers so the LBs can make plays especially in trying to get pressure on the QB. The 4-3 you get the pressure from the DLine and the LBs mainly need to cover TE, FBs, WRs on crossing patterns, etc. and perhaps the WSOLB needs to be an edge rusher, but typically is a situational player on passing downs since most rushers that don't 1st look for the run will over pursue plays which is why some running plays gain so many yards. So, with that said, the way they just built the Dline and may still take a DE in the draft, the 4 up front should be able to cause enough havoc to where the LBs won't have to be awesome to handle that part of the front 7. Heck I have watched many of the Giant games over the past decades and when the had the Dline with Strahan, Osi, Tuck, etc. they were so dominant I could not even tell you one of the LBs names during that 5 year period.

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6 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Picking a LB before the seattle 3rd rounder will instantly make me think Douglas is just another clueless mccagnan type with no clue how to build a team that simply panders to a positional coach who is now the head coach.

We have done nothing at QB

We have done nothing at Oline

We have done nothing at CB

We have done nothing at TE

We have done almost nothing at RB

We have once again as usual as always have invested more in the defense than the offense in FA.

A pass rusher or a LB before the other needs will be idiotic.  Yes I will be that blunt.

There are four picks before the Seattle 3rd rounder.  

I am pretty confident that a QB, CB and OL will be included in those picks.  

I am ok if one of those other picks is a RB or TE.  

If for some reason a QB is not taken at 2, I would expect lots of picks to fill holes.

But I am not confident that JD is going to approach the draft to fill all of the holes.  We think every year that is going to happen, and we end up with Polite, Zuniga, Clark, Morgan, Perine, Edoga, etc.

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