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Brian Costello "There is a feeling among people around the league that Douglas is a fan of Wilson while members of the new Jets coaching staff are advocating for keeping Darnold"


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Spoiler alert: the Jets want someone to trade up to 2. 

Jets backup QBs in the 9 games Darnold has missed as a pro: 0-10.  Coaches don't look at numbers, and while they do look at film they view it through a different lens than fans do. Fans look at f

Make no mistake, Douglas is in the Darnold corner too, but the front office is trying to not let emotion dictate their direction. It’s highly unlikely Douglas is going to let himself get beat in a tra

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1 hour ago, football guy said:

Jets backup QBs in the 9 games Darnold has missed as a pro: 0-10. 

Coaches don't look at numbers, and while they do look at film they view it through a different lens than fans do. Fans look at film with production in mind, whereas coaches take everything into context: process, personnel, coaching, and playcalling. 

If you removed context from the Super Bowl and evaluated Mahomes game in a vacuum - didn't know who the player was, didn't know the teams, didn't know the importance of the game - it would feel a lot like how it has felt watching Darnold: lots of pass protection breakdowns, some dumb playcalling, some drops, lack of consistent separation, poor decisions, and then some "how the hell did he do that" throws.

I'm not comparing Darnold to Mahomes, but I am saying that you need to consider the context surrounding Darnold's play to accurately evaluate him. What was the coaching like? How did the scheme fit or not fit his skill set? How did mono affect him? How did the pandemic affect him? Did the coaching staff/players put him in the best position to succeed?

 

I get it, us as fans want to look at stats and comparables and use them as predictables for players. There is no comparison to Darnold in NFL history. The coaches and executives all believe he's going to figure it out. People in other organizations believe he's going to figure it out. Reputable analysts think he's going to figure it out. There's a reason, and it has very little to do with stats; it's context, coachability, and his raw talent. It really comes down to who offers what at this point, and which offer maximizes roster value. 

For me that sounds like excuses. They are almost too zoomed in if this is the case. I understand considering the context of his play but you have to have a Macro and Micro assessment and consider why if your micro assessment is so positive why is the macro view so far off? Darnold just doesn’t put it together at the end of the day. While he’s still young it’s a bigger project to tear down his bad habits and build up new good ones vs a new prospect like Wilson/Fields who you’re building up. The clay is easier to mold with a new prospect. 
 

a good argument you made was the 49ers going to Super Bowl with Garrapolo and how Sam can be “at least” that good. That’s true, haven’t thought of that. But Garrapolo wasn’t close to having the goods to get them past that hump anyway. 
 

someone on Twitter said if Darnold was the 30th ranked QB past few years and he improves to say top 20 - a big jump - what does that leave us for next year? A middle of the pack draft pick an still unsure if we got the right guy? And having to decide if we want to pay him? And if he stinks his trade value drops down.  
 

Rather just start fresh and get what we can for him personally. Either way- looks like this is going to go down to draft day and not before. Typical Jets dragging the drama out but guess it’s warranted here strategically. 

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18 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Extremely reassured to know that Darnold's floor is "starting QB of a Super Bowl team"

There was me thinking Darnold's 'floor' was actually last season, those 2 wins and 9 tds for the year. Mike LeFleur must be some genius if the new floor is playing in the Superbowl. I love the optimism at least. 

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48 minutes ago, JiF said:

My dudes, I'm trying to tell you, they're trading out and running it back with Sammy.  

BRACE YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!!

I’m not as convinced as I once was, and it doesn’t have to do with their lack of admiration/desire to work with Darnold, rather, there may not be the kind of market for #2 the Jets would need in a trade to part with the pick. 

I don’t know if it’s true or not, but the few agents and scouts that I talk to have been regurgitating these two points over the past week: (1) if you look at the most recent times team’s have moved up to #2, it was because there was a distant 3rd if there was one at all; and (2) the league is a data-driven, copy-cat, reactionary league... they’re paying attention to the fact that the past 5 big trade ups have gone horribly, and the theory is because mortgaging draft picks handicaps the roster and ultimately the QB... they see what Miami and the LAC did, and some will say “why not us”? 

It doesn’t have to be so absolute, but it’s certainly something the Jets will face in negotiations. I honestly think it’s Carolina or bust, and if they are unwilling to meet the price they should be able to trade Darnold rather easily. 

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16 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I said it on the 17th, but don’t feel like digging all the way back through the thread to find the post so here’s the information I posted in it:  

One source told me that it’s more likely that Sam is moved and the other told me still 60/40 in favor of Sam.  I’m rolling with QB at 2 because those odds have shrunk in recent months and both sources have told me that JD loves Wilson.  They have told me the coaching staff loves Wilson too but they are also fond of the idea of rolling with Sam one more time.  It’s not a traditional “power struggle” as they’ll reach a healthy consensus after the pro days of Wilson and Fields, however GMs tend to win those “battles”.

Or they do both 

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1 hour ago, jNYC1 said:

Listen to me now, believe me later on. The Jets will keep Sam Darnold AND draft a quarterback.  

Joe Douglas hates risk.

First round quarterback success is a coin flip, and a job killer for a GM, if the GM get’s it wrong.   Joe Douglas will draft a QB and keep Sam (without picking up the 5th year option).  Keeping Sam reduces risk for Joe and the coaching staff.  They can have a QB competition.  They can have Sam start.  They can ease a rookie QB in later in the year when scheme and system have been installed and the team is starting to gel.

Sam Darnold is a scheme fit and Joe Douglas loves one year deals.  There is no need to pick up Sam’s fifth year option, and he is an affordable veteran quarterback with upside.  Joe Douglas loves draft picks but a second or third round pick will not change the franchise, and Sam is cheap insurance for Joe. 

Saleh is a leader that can handle a QB circus, and make the right QB call at the right time, just as Flores did with Fitz and Tua in Miami last year. 

Sam can audition... Sam sees what kinds of deals first round busts have recently received.   Best case, he balls out and Jets have good problems to work through - pay him or transition to the rookie.   In all likelihood he’s average and the Jet’s move on with certainty that the investment has been fully evaluated, a rookie has had time to adjust to the NFL, and no regrets on sunk costs with Sam.

All of this reduced risk for price of a 2022 2nd or 3rd that has a less than 50% chance of yielding a serviceable starter.  Joe likes that math.

this is a wise course of action and makes even more sense if there is in fact a difference of opinion between JD and Coaching Staff. It's a nice compromise. 

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3 minutes ago, football guy said:

I’m not as convinced as I once was, and it doesn’t have to do with their lack of admiration/desire to work with Darnold, rather, there may not be the kind of market for #2 the Jets would need in a trade to part with the pick. 

I don’t know if it’s true or not, but the few agents and scouts that I talk to have been regurgitating these two points over the past week: (1) if you look at the most recent times team’s have moved up to #2, it was because there was a distant 3rd if there was one at all; and (2) the league is a data-driven, copy-cat, reactionary league... they’re paying attention to the fact that the past 5 big trade ups have gone horribly, and the theory is because mortgaging draft picks handicaps the roster and ultimately the QB... they see what Miami and the LAC did, and some will say “why not us”? 

It doesn’t have to be so absolute, but it’s certainly something the Jets will face in negotiations. I honestly think it’s Carolina or bust, and if they are unwilling to meet the price they should be able to trade Darnold rather easily. 

@football guy I completely agree with you . Nobody traded up last year and it worked out ! I think Panthers are the only team willing to move up !! I don’t see any other team but the panthers wiling to move up. For all we know they love Fields 

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40 minutes ago, Cbucco19 said:

 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️ Just saying . Medicals Check out he will be the pick . Mort stated earlier in offseason that he thought sam was staying.. he has done a 180  

everybody has. 

Mel Kiper just did...Keyshawn a little while ago. nobody in the media think Sam should stay

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

If you were a GM and and rookie HC and wanted to win roughly eight games next year, you’d stick with the 24 year old QB with three years of starting experience (while adding a freak receiver and some more OL in the draft) versus staying put and drafting a wee project QB who played nobody.

I would say further, that I would gain some more draft capital in next years draft just in case Watson and his legal issues are “behind” him. 

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6 minutes ago, Cbucco19 said:

@football guy I completely agree with you . Nobody traded up last year and it worked out ! I think Panthers are the only team willing to move up !! I don’t see any other team but the panthers wiling to move up. For all we know they love Fields 

All along I've thought it would be the Panthers. I know the Jets and Panthers were open about it early in the process... Joe is close with both Monti Ossenfort (a finalist for the GM job) and Scott Fitterer (who landed the job) and the Carolina guy basically told me it was part of their pitch that the Jets would be open to dealing the pick RE: plan to find a star QB. That jived with my Jets sources, who said it was 60-40 Darnold would return because the organization comprehended how a big-time trade could literally set the Jets on a course to be a sustainable winner for the first time in their history. 

Then Carolina became the runner-up for Stafford and was the team that wanted to go all-in on Deshaun, which I spoke about on here about a month before they were even reported as a suitor. Knowing that he wasn't getting traded, that fueled my belief Carolina would go all-in for the #2 pick. I've felt that all along until this past weekend where people were like, "everyone loves Wilson but they may not be willing to pay the price"... then today my Carolina guy literally saying they may not even go QB all together and wait for Watson or take Fields. Just has my mind in a pretzel. 

 

What I do know is that if Joe makes Sam truly available, they'll get offers immediately. So if they don't get what they feel is fair market value for #2 in early talks, I think they will for Darnold. Where it really becomes fascinating is if neither garnish FMV. If they get a massive offer for #2 they'll take it and if they get a great deal for Darnold they'll take it; but what happens if they don't get great value for both? Too much to think about... 

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4 minutes ago, football guy said:

All along I've thought it would be the Panthers. I know the Jets and Panthers were open about it early in the process... Joe is close with both Monti Ossenfort (a finalist for the GM job) and Scott Fitterer (who landed the job) and the Carolina guy basically told me it was part of their pitch that the Jets would be open to dealing the pick RE: plan to find a star QB. That jived with my Jets sources, who said it was 60-40 Darnold would return because the organization comprehended how a big-time trade could literally set the Jets on a course to be a sustainable winner for the first time in their history. 

Then Carolina became the runner-up for Stafford and was the team that wanted to go all-in on Deshaun, which I spoke about on here about a month before they were even reported as a suitor. Knowing that he wasn't getting traded, that fueled my belief Carolina would go all-in for the #2 pick. I've felt that all along until this past weekend where people were like, "everyone loves Wilson but they may not be willing to pay the price"... then today my Carolina guy literally saying they may not even go QB all together and wait for Watson or take Fields. Just has my mind in a pretzel. 

 

What I do know is that if Joe makes Sam truly available, they'll get offers immediately. So if they don't get what they feel is fair market value for #2 in early talks, I think they will for Darnold. Where it really becomes fascinating is if neither garnish FMV. If they get a massive offer for #2 they'll take it and if they get a great deal for Darnold they'll take it; but what happens if they don't get great value for both? Too much to think about... 

you CAN roll with Sam and pick Wilson and see what you have. There is always a freak QB injury and a desperate team willing to trade when the season starts. It does cause drama, but it also doesn’t cost much in terms of cap. If Sam sucks you plug in Wilson after he learns a bit sitting on the bench (mahomes style). 

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7 minutes ago, Cbucco19 said:

@football guy I completely agree with you . Nobody traded up last year and it worked out ! I think Panthers are the only team willing to move up !! I don’t see any other team but the panthers wiling to move up. For all we know they love Fields 

Just a hunch but I think Lance is the guy they love. They had Rhule, Fitterer and Brady standing right behind Lance at his pro day. None of those guys went to Alabama. 

I'm sure they will have a presence at BYU tomorrow, but I think Carolina are comfortable with Lance or Fields, 

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7 minutes ago, football guy said:

All along I've thought it would be the Panthers. I know the Jets and Panthers were open about it early in the process... Joe is close with both Monti Ossenfort (a finalist for the GM job) and Scott Fitterer (who landed the job) and the Carolina guy basically told me it was part of their pitch that the Jets would be open to dealing the pick RE: plan to find a star QB. That jived with my Jets sources, who said it was 60-40 Darnold would return because the organization comprehended how a big-time trade could literally set the Jets on a course to be a sustainable winner for the first time in their history. 

Then Carolina became the runner-up for Stafford and was the team that wanted to go all-in on Deshaun, which I spoke about on here about a month before they were even reported as a suitor. Knowing that he wasn't getting traded, that fueled my belief Carolina would go all-in for the #2 pick. I've felt that all along until this past weekend where people were like, "everyone loves Wilson but they may not be willing to pay the price"... then today my Carolina guy literally saying they may not even go QB all together and wait for Watson or take Fields. Just has my mind in a pretzel. 

 

What I do know is that if Joe makes Sam truly available, they'll get offers immediately. So if they don't get what they feel is fair market value for #2 in early talks, I think they will for Darnold. Where it really becomes fascinating is if neither garnish FMV. If they get a massive offer for #2 they'll take it and if they get a great deal for Darnold they'll take it; but what happens if they don't get great value for both? Too much to think about... 

 💯 @football guy Joe is smart and knows what he is doing . People  think he overplayed his sam card are the same people that  said we wouldn’t get a #1 for Adams and guess what we got 2 + . I’ve had a private chat with Daniel Jeremiah and he thinks Sam will be a Bronco , 49er or Panther . I could see niners taking Sam to develop behind Jimmy 🤷🏼‍♂️And Broncos can trade a 2nd and easily recoup with a trade down from 9 . 

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13 minutes ago, football guy said:

All along I've thought it would be the Panthers. I know the Jets and Panthers were open about it early in the process... Joe is close with both Monti Ossenfort (a finalist for the GM job) and Scott Fitterer (who landed the job) and the Carolina guy basically told me it was part of their pitch that the Jets would be open to dealing the pick RE: plan to find a star QB. That jived with my Jets sources, who said it was 60-40 Darnold would return because the organization comprehended how a big-time trade could literally set the Jets on a course to be a sustainable winner for the first time in their history. 

Then Carolina became the runner-up for Stafford and was the team that wanted to go all-in on Deshaun, which I spoke about on here about a month before they were even reported as a suitor. Knowing that he wasn't getting traded, that fueled my belief Carolina would go all-in for the #2 pick. I've felt that all along until this past weekend where people were like, "everyone loves Wilson but they may not be willing to pay the price"... then today my Carolina guy literally saying they may not even go QB all together and wait for Watson or take Fields. Just has my mind in a pretzel. 

 

What I do know is that if Joe makes Sam truly available, they'll get offers immediately. So if they don't get what they feel is fair market value for #2 in early talks, I think they will for Darnold. Where it really becomes fascinating is if neither garnish FMV. If they get a massive offer for #2 they'll take it and if they get a great deal for Darnold they'll take it; but what happens if they don't get great value for both? Too much to think about... 

Really great Depth in these post you wouldn't get from the one line bold statements on Twitter. Theres so many layers to this. Will be looking forward to your thoughts on the Wilson/Fields Pro Days and who is attending. Im assuming the whole Panthers and Jets FO will be at both. 

Does Fields running a 4.4 change anything for lets say the Panthers or any team in that area?

Any Guess what SF is up to at QB? Them and Denver seem to have somthing up their sleeve. 

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wow there are so many of these post im losing track of them

there are so many i think we get the picture. everyone says draft Wilson ...trade Sam.

so how about we stop posting this stuff cause we heard it 1000 times already. its not news.

lets only post stuff that people say for us to keep Sam. because that would be news. i dont think there are any insiders or media guys left who think that.

or guys who say to not draft Wilson. cause that would be news too.

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We are all QB focused no doubt about it as is natural.

A little over a year from now it will be the non QB decisions that either makes this team and Douglas or breaks them.

Last years picks have to progress.

This years picks have to turn out.

The two firsts next year and other picks need to turn out for the most part.

Whether we have Darnold or Wilson or someone else, Douglas needs to fill holes with good players and get  4 or 5 great players.

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Just now, Beerfish said:

We are all QB focused no doubt about it as is natural.

A little over a year from now it will be the non QB decisions that either makes this team and Douglas or breaks them.

Last years picks have to progress.

This years picks have to turn out.

The two firsts next year and other picks need to turn out for the most part.

Whether we have Darnold or Wilson or someone else, Douglas needs to fill holes with good players and get  4 or 5 great players.

We need a quarterback.

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7 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

Just a hunch but I think Lance is the guy they love. They had Rhule, Fitterer and Brady standing right behind Lance at his pro day. None of those guys went to Alabama. 

I'm sure they will have a presence at BYU tomorrow, but I think Carolina are comfortable with Lance or Fields, 

I actually agree with this . Don’t forget Scott came from Seahawks and some compare lance to Russ 

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2 hours ago, football guy said:

It truly is fascinating. The coaches see Darnold as someone who is more talented than Garoppolo, and given how their scheme does a lot more to promote QB efficiency and clean play, they don't think Darnold is as big of a risk as the media/fans make him out to be. They were there to see Garoppolo lead the 49ers to the Super Bowl, and they think that caliber of player is a realistic floor for Darnold.

It really all comes down to the market for #2. I have no idea if Atlanta will be interested in moving up, Carolina executive acting coy about trading up, Denver interested in Darnold more so than making a big draft-day move, haven't heard anything about San Fran moving up/Jets moving outside the top 10, and I'd be shocked if they considered dealing a QB to New England, even though the front offices get along. 

I do think Carolina would trade if push comes to shove; not buying that they're passing up on QBs this year. The sleeper team is Philadelphia. They've done wild things before so can't rule them out entirely. 

Cool story.

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Zach Wilson better be a Jet.  Despite stupidity.. from a fan base who couldn’t suck a dick as a fag.  You get what’s coming.  Ding bats.  But this time it’s good.  Even though most of you, granted, just don’t see it coming.  At all 

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