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Brian Costello "There is a feeling among people around the league that Douglas is a fan of Wilson while members of the new Jets coaching staff are advocating for keeping Darnold"


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50 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

We need a QB

We need a good TE

We need one or two CBS

We need at least 2 olinemen

We need a WR

We need another RB

We need a LB

Stick any QB you chose on the team the Jets had last year and they fall flat on their ass.

If we want to actually win something you need much more than a QB.

What’s the most important position in pro sports? 

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Spoiler alert: the Jets want someone to trade up to 2. 

Jets backup QBs in the 9 games Darnold has missed as a pro: 0-10.  Coaches don't look at numbers, and while they do look at film they view it through a different lens than fans do. Fans look at f

Make no mistake, Douglas is in the Darnold corner too, but the front office is trying to not let emotion dictate their direction. It’s highly unlikely Douglas is going to let himself get beat in a tra

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2 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

What’s the most important position in pro sports? 

Patrick mahommes just looked like sam darnold in the title game

Deshaun Watson was one of the top rated QBs on a 4 win team.

QB is obviously the most important in pro football, if you do not hit on the other stuff you are screwed. (look at  guy like Stafford)

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16 minutes ago, RogerVick1980 said:

This is still a rebuild what makes people think we were gonna fix every hole and be a complete team by this year?

QB is by far the most important position.. IF the Jets love Wilson you don’t pass that up..

We I’ve enough draft assets and cap space for the  next year that will be able to improve the team going forward as well..

The idea we can take a QB if we think he’s a franchise  QB because we must feel every hole this year is foolish.

Were not winning a super bowl this year regardless..

We are not winning period if you do not hit in a lot of your other picks.

The last two superbowl winners came into teams mostly built.

We need both but all people are talking about is Darnold vs Watson vs Wilson vs fields etc.

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I do agree with the notion that a trade down is harmed by such a strong QB class.

I mean, if I'm in charge of Carolina I'd rather take Fields or Lance at 8 without having to surrender the large capital to move up. Moving up gives you the pick of the lot, but they can still find a franchise QB at 8. 

Trade ups are risky. I'm sure that even amongst the most ardent Darnold supporters, there is some level of regret with regards to trading all of those picks to move up to 3. Quinten Nelson and Braden Smith are elite players and would each be our most impactful if they were currently on the roster.

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

We are not winning period if you do not hit in a lot of your other picks.

The last two superbowl winners came into teams mostly built.

We need both but all people are talking about is Darnold vs Watson vs Wilson vs fields etc.

Look at the Qb’s who’ve won recently it’s mostly the top guys.. it’s so much easier to fill holes then it is to find an elite franchise QB..You don’t pass that up..

The Bucs went from under 500 to winning a super bowl by signing  Brady..

The Niners have had the best roster in the NFl and are still trying to upgrade from Jimmy G because of how hard it is to win a title with an average QB..

 If he doesn’t miss a wide open Sanders they win that SB but that’s who he is..

Having an elite QB hides weaknesses and makes life so much easier..

Bellichek had to overspend in FA this year because he’s been so bad at drafting but nobody noticed because they were able to overcome it when they had Brady when they bring an average Qb like Cam in the flaws are exposed 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, RogerVick1980 said:

I haven’t heard this from most of those guys but if you say this is true then surely if we trade Sam we should get a kings ransom since he’s supposedly so highly thought of..

a 23 year old QB everyone loves is not going for a mid round pick.

If that’s all we get for Sam then clearly you overblew how the league thinks of him 

Fair market value. In a negotiation, there are 2 sides: one side who tries to pay less for something they want, and another side who tries to sell something for more. Douglas wants a 1st, he's probably going to have to settle for a 2nd. Despite strong belief that Darnold will be a good QB, there's still factors that teams will look to exploit to see that they pay less, whether it be uncertainty, contract, production what have you. Doesn't mean they don't think highly of the player. 

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6 minutes ago, football guy said:

Fair market value. In a negotiation, there are 2 sides: one side who tries to pay less for something they want, and another side who tries to sell something for more. Douglas wants a 1st, he's probably going to have to settle for a 2nd. Despite strong belief that Darnold will be a good QB, there's still factors that teams will look to exploit to see that they pay less, whether it be uncertainty, contract, production what have you. Doesn't mean they don't think highly of the player. 

It’s the QB position it’s gold.. Josh Rosen went for a 2nd..

If teams value Sam that highly and think  he’s a franchise Qb at  only 23 a late or mid first is easily worth it.

I just don’t buy that anyone thinks of him as anything more then his ceiling being top 15-20 QB.

I have serious doubts we even get a 2nd for him.

Teams that are QB hungry signed mediocre  veterans like Fitz and Dalton..

If they think Sam had that kind of upside they would haves made a good offer to get him.

 

 

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, football guy said:

Daniel Jeremiah, Bucky Brooks, Brian Baldinger, Troy Aikman, Louis Riddick, Tony Romo are just a few of the "analysts". 

 

Virtually every coach/personnel exec in the NFL has some level of respect for Darnold's abilities. Mike Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan, Brandon Staley, Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick, Brian Daboll, Ken Dorsey, Gary Kubiak, Kevin Stefanski, John Elway, Chris Ballard, the entire Jets coaching staff are all bullish on him... the list goes on.

@football guy Isn’t it telling though that both DJ and Baldy think they should move on and both Like Wilson better ? Those r 2 of Joes guys . 

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1. Douglas probably loves the idea of the new rookie QB contract value resetting.  He probably also knows that if Darnold flops again next year and he passed on a QB at #2 it could mean he loses his job sooner rather than later if he can't fix the QB problem in 2022.

2. The new coaches are in Year 1.  Fresh guys who are saying, "Hey, let's take a spin with Sam.  I think he can work out.  Besides, I want CB ____________, Edge rusher _____________, and WR ______________ with our first three picks!"  The coaches may appear to be on the same timeline as Joe with a 4ish year deal for Saleh, but in reality they're on different timelines since Joe has been here for two free agency periods now and is on his second HC.

3. You would think they would have spoken about this during the interview process?

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5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Spoiler alert: the Jets want someone to trade up to 2. 

They also want to hear offers for Sam Darnold.  So, how do you let the NFL know that you might be open to trading the #2 pick.... and also open to trading your current starting QB?  Answer:  The GM wants a new QB, the Coaches want the current one.  Now..... everybody starts calling the Jets about everything! lol  "Hey... uhhh Joe.... would you take a 7th for James Morgan.  We think the Captain nickname is cool and worth a 7th."

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1 hour ago, Maxman said:

So I am leaving this post as an example of what is not tolerated here.

Banned. 

Complete garbage.  Go do hate speech somewhere else.

I was more offended by the complete disregard for proper punctuation and sentence structure.

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1 hour ago, football guy said:

Daniel Jeremiah, Bucky Brooks, Brian Baldinger, Troy Aikman, Louis Riddick, Tony Romo are just a few of the "analysts". 

 

Virtually every coach/personnel exec in the NFL has some level of respect for Darnold's abilities. Mike Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan, Brandon Staley, Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick, Brian Daboll, Ken Dorsey, Gary Kubiak, Kevin Stefanski, John Elway, Chris Ballard, the entire Jets coaching staff are all bullish on him... the list goes on.

Didn't Belichick gameplan Darnold into one of the statistically worst QB performances in a game in league history?  #ghosts

 

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3 hours ago, football guy said:

I’m not as convinced as I once was, and it doesn’t have to do with their lack of admiration/desire to work with Darnold, rather, there may not be the kind of market for #2 the Jets would need in a trade to part with the pick. 

I don’t know if it’s true or not, but the few agents and scouts that I talk to have been regurgitating these two points over the past week: (1) if you look at the most recent times team’s have moved up to #2, it was because there was a distant 3rd if there was one at all; and (2) the league is a data-driven, copy-cat, reactionary league... they’re paying attention to the fact that the past 5 big trade ups have gone horribly, and the theory is because mortgaging draft picks handicaps the roster and ultimately the QB... they see what Miami and the LAC did, and some will say “why not us”? 

It doesn’t have to be so absolute, but it’s certainly something the Jets will face in negotiations. I honestly think it’s Carolina or bust, and if they are unwilling to meet the price they should be able to trade Darnold rather easily. 

Wasn’t Mahomes and Lamar both trade ups?

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1 hour ago, RogerVick1980 said:

Look at the Qb’s who’ve won recently it’s mostly the top guys.. it’s so much easier to fill holes then it is to find an elite franchise QB..You don’t pass that up..

The Bucs went from under 500 to winning a super bowl by signing  Brady..

The Niners have had the best roster in the NFl and are still trying to upgrade from Jimmy G because of how hard it is to win a title with an average QB..

 If he doesn’t miss a wide open Sanders they win that SB but that’s who he is..

Having an elite QB hides weaknesses and makes life so much easier..

Bellichek had to overspend in FA this year because he’s been so bad at drafting but nobody noticed because they were able to overcome it when they had Brady when they bring an average Qb like Cam in the flaws are exposed 

 

 

How many of those guys were drafted top 5? 

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56 minutes ago, RogerVick1980 said:

It’s the QB position it’s gold.. Josh Rosen went for a 2nd..

If teams value Sam that highly and think  he’s a franchise Qb at  only 23 a late or mid first is easily worth it.

I just don’t buy that anyone thinks of him as anything more then his ceiling being top 15-20 QB.

I have serious doubts we even get a 2nd for him.

Teams that are QB hungry signed mediocre  veterans like Fitz and Dalton..

If they think Sam had that kind of upside they would haves made a good offer to get him.

Josh Rosen went for a 2nd after his first season while he still had 3 more years left on his contract. 

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50 minutes ago, Cbucco19 said:

@football guy Isn’t it telling though that both DJ and Baldy think they should move on and both Like Wilson better ? Those r 2 of Joes guys . 

Doesn't mean they don't think highly of Darnold. 

14 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Didn't Belichick gameplan Darnold into one of the statistically worst QB performances in a game in league history?  #ghosts

Yes, still likes him a lot and reached out to the Jets about trading him last year. Jets gave a firm no. 

7 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

Wasn’t Mahomes and Lamar both trade ups?

"Big trade ups" meaning in the top 5 picks. Mahomes, Deshaun, and Allen were trade ups outside of the top 5, where the compensation wasn't nearly as robust

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2 minutes ago, Cbucco19 said:

@football guy say Pats offered Jets 15 for Sam ... would u do it ? Lol 

I'd buy Sam a Patriots hat and drive him to Foxboro myself. lol

I mean, I like Sam but essentially trading him straight up for someone like Patrick Surtain II, Rashawn Slater, Jaylen Waddle or Alijah Vera-Tucker is kind of a no brainer.

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1 hour ago, football guy said:

Daniel Jeremiah, Bucky Brooks, Brian Baldinger, Troy Aikman, Louis Riddick, Tony Romo are just a few of the "analysts". 

 

Virtually every coach/personnel exec in the NFL has some level of respect for Darnold's abilities. Mike Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan, Brandon Staley, Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick, Brian Daboll, Ken Dorsey, Gary Kubiak, Kevin Stefanski, John Elway, Chris Ballard, the entire Jets coaching staff are all bullish on him... the list goes on.

His abilities mean absolutely nothing. Wonder if those same guys have the time to take from their coaching and exec jobs to evaluate Darnold watching him constantly miss open receivers. exhibit terrible pocket awareness, along with terrible footwork and mechanics. Before the guy came to the Jets he played QB for what 4 years removed from being a LB in HS ? Keep in mind most of these guys you mention in the NFL, not analysts, do not make it a habit of bashing players nor do any of the announcers. Darnold is not a good QB and that's pretty much it. No amount of new scenery is going to fix that.

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2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I'd buy Sam a Patriots hat and drive him to Foxboro myself. lol

I mean, I like Sam but essentially trading him straight up for someone like Patrick Surtain II, Rashawn Slater, Jaylen Waddle or Alijah Vera-Tucker is kind of a no brainer.

can I come with..... Please !!!  So I can laugh in Belichicks face as we speed off into the sunset

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16 minutes ago, football guy said:

Josh Rosen went for a 2nd after his first season while he still had 3 more years left on his contract. 

What about the fact that QB desperate teams chose mediocre veterans over trading for Sam?

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20 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

How many of those guys were drafted top 5? 

 I think it’s flawed logic to not draft a Qb that high because it’s possible to hit on guys not picked at the very top of the  draft and there have been busts high in the draft.

So like  the Jets even  if they love Wilson should pass on him and trade down to take a qb at around  9 because of past drafts?

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19 minutes ago, RogerVick1980 said:

 I think it’s flawed logic to not draft a Qb that high because it’s possible to hit on guys not picked at the very top of the  draft and there have been busts high in the draft.

So like  the Jets even  if they love Wilson should pass on him and trade down to take a qb at around  9 because of past drafts?

No that's not what I was getting at. My point was just that a lot the guys that are doing well and are considered the best find themselves in much better situations.

QBs drafted in the top five usually end up in crappy situations and it's very difficult for one guy to fix everything in the ultimate team game.

We have a 2-14 roster that needs a lot of work. Trading out of #2 a little bit could go a long way in fixing that over the next couple years.

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2 hours ago, football guy said:

That's kind of why I feel like I'm being played too. Way back in January Lance was apparently the guy they loved. Then it was Jones after the senior bowl. Now it's none or Fields? Don't buy it. 

Only reason why they would pass on a QB this year is because they're going to swing for Deshaun once the lawsuits settle 

Wouldn't a trade up to #2 to take Wilson potentially help Carolina's efforts to land Watson in the future, if they chose to go in that direction?  Wilson might be better than any of the QBs potentially coming out in next year's draft, so Houston might jump at the chance to get him, with some experience under his belt, as part of the return for Watson when the time comes to trade him.

Alternately, if Wilson looks like a potential superstar in his rookie season, the Panthers would be ecstatic and they could scrap their plans to trade for Watson.

Seems like a great way to hedge their bet on finding their franchise QB.

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21 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

No that's not what I was getting at. My point was just that a lot the guys that are doing well and are considered the best find themselves in much better situations.

QBs drafted in the top five usually end up in crappy situations and it's very difficult for one guy to fix everything in the ultimate team game.

We have a 2-14 roster that needs a lot of work. Trading out of #2 a little bit could go a long way in fixing that over the next couple years.

If you love a QB and think he can be a franchise QB you simply can’t pass on him the position is too important.. worry about filling all the holes later.. If the QB is legit you’ll start to win eventually.

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Jets backup QBs in the 9 games Darnold has missed as a pro: 0-10. 
Coaches don't look at numbers, and while they do look at film they view it through a different lens than fans do. Fans look at film with production in mind, whereas coaches take everything into context: process, personnel, coaching, and playcalling. 
If you removed context from the Super Bowl and evaluated Mahomes game in a vacuum - didn't know who the player was, didn't know the teams, didn't know the importance of the game - it would feel a lot like how it has felt watching Darnold: lots of pass protection breakdowns, some dumb playcalling, some drops, lack of consistent separation, poor decisions, and then some "how the hell did he do that" throws.
I'm not comparing Darnold to Mahomes, but I am saying that you need to consider the context surrounding Darnold's play to accurately evaluate him. What was the coaching like? How did the scheme fit or not fit his skill set? How did mono affect him? How did the pandemic affect him? Did the coaching staff/players put him in the best position to succeed?
 
I get it, us as fans want to look at stats and comparables and use them as predictables for players. There is no comparison to Darnold in NFL history. The coaches and executives all believe he's going to figure it out. People in other organizations believe he's going to figure it out. Reputable analysts think he's going to figure it out. There's a reason, and it has very little to do with stats; it's context, coachability, and his raw talent. It really comes down to who offers what at this point, and which offer maximizes roster value. 


With that all the case

Why is the front office not ever (or barely ) being talked about considering drafting QB at 2

AND

Holding onto Darnold through at least part of 2021?

Qb is a giant questionmark

Why not take 2 chances at fixings it instead of 1

Are they that certain that Wilson is ready to come out right away & take the bumps along the way?

Let them fight it out in camp & hope the rookie wins


If it seems like he could use a little more time thenWe could ride Darnold at least for part of the season until we begin having to think about his pay day.

Will the 2nd round pick we get help will that much with us still already having 3 more in rounds 1&2?

I’d expect some team to get into a need situation during the year where we still could trade him for a 2nd in 2022




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6 hours ago, Grandy said:

This is the most fascinating one. The tools and scheme arguments are valid but this one puzzles and scares me. 

He posted worse numbers and film last year than most rookies, and doesnt do various things that Wilson and Fields already can.

To me, Darnold is the equivalent of a rookie QB right now in terms of how far along he is, if not more raw. With Darnold showing more concerns than any draft guy as well.

I think too many people focus on the idealized version of Darnold more than what he's actually done.

Do you think that Darnold's performance has a lot to do with the suckfest that was/is his supporting cast?

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