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This new regime is tied to the QB that starts in September.


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9 hours ago, johnnyjet said:

So if you are Joe Douglas, Saleh and LaFleur, who do you hitch your wagon too. Sam who still has potential but really hasn’t show anything that would make you go wow.   Zach who is now QB 2 in the draft or trade number to for a boat load of picks.   
My choice is trade Sam, take Zach.  Reset the salary of your QB. Stay the course if building with young guys.  Add a couple of locker room guys.  Hold the fort guys.  
and go back to the old uniforms.  

Um...not necessarily.

 

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

I find it kind of funny that many of the same people here who continue to sh*t on Maccagnan for passing on Watson and Mahomes are now advocating that we pass on every QB in this class for another year of Sam.  There are 3-4 extremely strong QB prospects in this class (depending on what you think of Mac Jones).  The chances of some of them being very good is high enough that if you blow it and pass on them, it will follow you forever.  Especially if Sam sucks again, which is, sadly, more likely than not.  Unless you are getting 4 first round picks (I don’t believe anyone is giving this up), it’s an absolute waste to trade out.

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.“

So it wouldn’t be insane at all to trot out a fourth rookie QB in a dozen years because this time it’s gonna work. 

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1 minute ago, oatmeal said:

“What the 49ers showed was that the difference between Zach Wilson  and Darnold is 2 1st round picks and a 3rd “-  mike tannenbaum ?

 

ouch 

And a ****ton of cap space, not that Tanny was ever too concerned about that. 

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2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Not as insane as trotting a QB with 3 bad years of tape.  We, more likely than not, know what Sam is.  We have no idea what Wilson is, but he has sky high potential.

You keep drafting them until you find one.

You have to wonder if that was part of Miami’s strategy, they know Tua may suck so they armed themselves with more than enough draft picks to get another qb next year or in 2023 while also being able to continue to stock the roster. 

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5 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Not as insane as trotting a QB with 3 bad years of tape.  We, more likely than not, know what Sam is.  We have no idea what Wilson is, but he has sky high potential.

You keep drafting them until you find one.

The only reason to trot out Sam would be to maximize the value of that #2 pick. It has nothing to do with him, and everything to do with the bust potential of a small-framed, small school, surgically repaired prospect. Move down a few spots, collect draft bounty, address the QB position next year after your HC and OC have their program installed, and the roster is much closer to being just a QB away. 

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3 minutes ago, slats said:

The only reason to trot out Sam would be to maximize the value of that #2 pick. It has nothing to do with him, and everything to do with the bust potential of a small-framed, small school, surgically repaired prospect. Move down a few spots, collect draft bounty, address the QB position next year after your HC and OC have their program installed, and the roster is much closer to being just a QB away. 

Another option that’s not discussed (and at this point seems highly unlikely) is that the jets trade back with atlanta, pick up extra draft collateral and still draft a qb.  Moving to 8 means you’re probably keeping darnold, but if you move to 4 that’s great if you like enough of the qbs.  Again, more of a theoretical discussion b/c the 49ers are taking a qb and now it seems our destiny to take wilson.

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33 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Not as insane as trotting a QB with 3 bad years of tape.  We, more likely than not, know what Sam is.  We have no idea what Wilson is, but he has sky high potential.

You keep drafting them until you find one.

Exactly. It isn’t rocket science.

Sam might be great. Zach might be great. 

But Sam has shown 3 years of bad to meh with sprinkles of brilliance. It’s not enough.

And to the people saying “we can trade down and have 10,000 elite playmakers for Sam! He’s bound to be at least decent!”...

...I say to that...i dont want my franchise qb to need to have elite talent at all times to be good.

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9 hours ago, slats said:

If Wilson is the league darling next season, that'll be something of an issue, I'll grant you that. And if Wilson falls on his face, it won't be. Can't worry about who's not on your team and what they're doing. 

If Darnold doesn't play well again, but the draft appears to be impressive and the coaching looks good and the only -or primary- weak link appears to be the QB, they address it next year with three firsts in 2022 and two more in 2023 to make a deal happen. 

You can't just expect that A: someone will trade down with you  B.There will be a QB in the same category as Wilson next year. By all accounts, next year's class isn't as deep, which means we would have to be in the top few picks again to get one. I highly doubt we'll be in the top 5 next year. If JD passes on these QBs and Sam doesn't become elite, he will most likely lose his job. You have to look for an elite QB, not a top 15 guy. You just can't depend on other teams to help you get a QB.

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1 hour ago, slats said:

The only reason to trot out Sam would be to maximize the value of that #2 pick. It has nothing to do with him, and everything to do with the bust potential of a small-framed, small school, surgically repaired prospect. Move down a few spots, collect draft bounty, address the QB position next year after your HC and OC have their program installed, and the roster is much closer to being just a QB away. 

I could really care less about value when addressing the most important position on the team. Do you want to get the best QB and be set for a decade or win a trade? Brady has to be the most frail QB in the NFL. Wilson is actually heavier than Trevor Lawrence. 

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2 hours ago, slats said:

The only reason to trot out Sam would be to maximize the value of that #2 pick. It has nothing to do with him, and everything to do with the bust potential of a small-framed, small school, surgically repaired prospect. Move down a few spots, collect draft bounty, address the QB position next year after your HC and OC have their program installed, and the roster is much closer to being just a QB away. 

The bigger point is that we should not be moving down for anything less than what San Francisco got and I find it extremely unlikely teams are going to give up that, let alone the higher price that would actually be required to leap frog SF.

Also, if you aren’t a fan of Wilson for those reasons, you’re reeeeeeeeally going to hate next years group.

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2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

Another option that’s not discussed (and at this point seems highly unlikely) is that the jets trade back with atlanta, pick up extra draft collateral and still draft a qb.  Moving to 8 means you’re probably keeping darnold, but if you move to 4 that’s great if you like enough of the qbs.  Again, more of a theoretical discussion b/c the 49ers are taking a qb and now it seems our destiny to take wilson.

Counterpoint:  moving to 4 leaves you picking the last guy.  I’m not passing on Zach Wilson to “potentially” draft Mac Jones.  I’d rather move further back and take the extra draft picks than draft that guy.

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7 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Counterpoint:  moving to 4 leaves you picking the last guy.  I’m not passing on Zach Wilson to “potentially” draft Mac Jones.  I’d rather move further back and take the extra draft picks than draft that guy.

Agreed.  If we want a QB, no need to risk missing out on the guy we want.  We have the two pick, don't need to package picks to get our guy.  Stay put at 2 and take the best QB still on the board.  No need to get cute and risk losing our guy.

If JD does not like any of these QBs and wants to trade back to build the roster, fine.  But you don't trade back to take the last man standing.

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There are a ton of positions where rookies can immediately impact the team. WR, QB, and DB take some time for the most part but o-line, RB, LB, and pass rushers can def hit the ground running.
True but we likely are not drafting a LB or RB so that leaves Oline which we desperately need. Even if we draft a guard at 23 and one at 34 there is still a 50% chance of a bust or at the least a learning curve.

Again...not enough to make a dramatic difference

Sent from the Suicide Watch desk.

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It’s not just about Wilson, what if another QB taken in the first has an amazing rookie season? The odds are way higher a QB picked in the first will have immediate impact vs a fourth year starter having a rare turnaround.
 
Joe Douglas can’t and won’t escape the criticism of passing on a QB this year because Darnold is the worst starting QB on a expiring contract and we have the pick of the litter in a draft class so highly touted “QB gurus” are mortgaging their teams future for the 3rd best one. 
A year ago it was Trevor Lawrence and a handful of maybes, and Wilson wasn't even on the list. Here's Mel Kipers take from a year ago. No Wilson. Tanner Morgan and Jamie Newman were higher ranked on other boards I found. The 2022 draft is a long way away.



If they trade out of the pick and Wilson is Dan Marino and Sam continues to be Ryan Leaf and Jets fans are gouging their eyes out of their head watching the Jets on offense next year it won't look like a punt.  It will look like a butt fumble.  


And if they don't and Darnold is Drew Brees and Wilson is Josh Rosen or Mitch Trubisky? Same deal. That's why you have to base it only on how much you like the QBs in a vacuum.

I think Miami is clear favorite in DW sweepstakes. He’s going nowhere this year, now they have more capital to trade next year. Tua gets a 1 year tryout.
 
watch Carolina trade back for more future picks too so they remain in the race
DW may be playing and available next year, but if Russell Wilson remains unhappy he's much more tradeable next year than this.



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3 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I find it kind of funny that many of the same people here who continue to sh*t on Maccagnan for passing on Watson and Mahomes are now advocating that we pass on every QB in this class for another year of Sam.  There are 3-4 extremely strong QB prospects in this class (depending on what you think of Mac Jones).  The chances of some of them being very good is high enough that if you blow it and pass on them, it will follow you forever.  Especially if Sam sucks again, which is, sadly, more likely than not.  Unless you are getting 4 first round picks (I don’t believe anyone is giving this up), it’s an absolute waste to trade out.

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.“

It’s amazing to me that more people don’t get this.

And the funny thing is, it’s not like we have given up on a young QB before only for him to tear up the league elsewhere. Meanwhile, we just passed on Watson and Mahomes a few years ago. 

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17 minutes ago, isired said:

A year ago it was Trevor Lawrence and a handful of maybes, and Wilson wasn't even on the list. Here's Mel Kipers take from a year ago. No Wilson. Tanner Morgan and Jamie Newman were higher ranked on other boards I found. The 2022 draft is a long way 

Fields and Lance were considered, by many, to be a lot better than “maybes”.  I know someone who told me about Wilson last year because Zach worked with him and Phil Simms.

2022 has, IMO, one intriguing prospect other than Sam Howell: JT Daniels.  The problem is, he not only needs to take a leap, he also has a really bad knee injury history.  Every single prospect from this class, except maybe Mac Jones, would be the first overall pick next year.

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9 minutes ago, section314 said:

Mac Jones is this years Tony Eason. I bet he doesn’t’ Go in the 1st rd. There is no way in hell that John Lynch would sell his soul like that for Mac Jones. He traded up for Fields.

My gut says he takes Lance.

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5 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I find it kind of funny that many of the same people here who continue to sh*t on Maccagnan for passing on Watson and Mahomes are now advocating that we pass on every QB in this class for another year of Sam.  There are 3-4 extremely strong QB prospects in this class (depending on what you think of Mac Jones).  The chances of some of them being very good is high enough that if you blow it and pass on them, it will follow you forever.  Especially if Sam sucks again, which is, sadly, more likely than not.  Unless you are getting 4 first round picks (I don’t believe anyone is giving this up), it’s an absolute waste to trade out.

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.“

Exactly. I do not get it on any level. I think passing on a QB is completely idiotic, and while he has shot up the board this year his play was historical Not just good, among the best ever in college FB.  If JD somehow decides to pass we will regret it for years. Also we already have 2 years of multiple #1s among other high picks it is not like we are starved for draft capital.

Sam Darnold was ranked 36th of starters last year. Just think about that. He was worse than 4 back ups.  And yet we have people beside themselves wanting to pass on QB and give Darnold another shot. It is utterly bewildering.

Here is the irony though. The argument for giving Sam a shot is essentially he will be better with better weapons and a better OL Wilson will ALSO be better with talent that is many levels above what he played with. I am not sure if anyone noticed in the Pro Day how below average his receivers were. 

Passing on Wilson will be the worst move this team made since selecting a safety over Mahomes or Watson.

People really didn't learn from the last time. They want to pass again. Madness

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4 hours ago, slats said:

So it wouldn’t be insane at all to trot out a fourth rookie QB in a dozen years because this time it’s gonna work. 

No. Different coaching staff. Different front office.

Each situation is unique. Just because Sam failed does not make it even .1% more likely that Wilson will fail. Completely different circumstances. Just one example: Wilson will have a good offensive coordinator and a QB coach. Sam ham neither.

There is definitely a nurture element to developing a FQB but we are in a better space. And Wilson is a far better prospect than Sam who had a lot of yellow flags.

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44 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

My gut says he takes Lance.

I go back and forth I can see the argument for either.  Jones played well Senior Bowl week and was extremely good at Alabama, albeit with 2 likely first rounders. But, he is the poster child for Shanahan's offense and they just decided not to take a chance of losing out.

I see the argument for Lance too. He brings a different skill set to the offense and they can redshirt him for a year, but he is truly a one year wonder, and seems like a risky pick.

I think I lean Jones in a shocker.

I also get the feeling that the teams evaluating the QBs are not really digging Fields. I think he could do the Green Room waiting alone thing this year.

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1 hour ago, isired said:




 

A year ago it was Trevor Lawrence and a handful of maybes, and Wilson wasn't even on the list. Here's Mel Kipers take from a year ago. No Wilson. Tanner Morgan and Jamie Newman were higher ranked on other boards I found. The 2022 draft is a long way away.





And if they don't and Darnold is Drew Brees and Wilson is Josh Rosen or Mitch Trubisky? Same deal. That's why you have to base it only on how much you like the QBs in a vacuum.

DW may be playing and available next year, but if Russell Wilson remains unhappy he's much more tradeable next year than this.


 

You do realize that you are essentially dismissing Wilson because he happened to improve a LOT. Like Burrow did last year. And if you read Peter King's article you would know it was hard work that did it for him. The hatred for WIlson is just mind numbing.

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23 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I go back and forth I can see the argument for either.  Jones played well Senior Bowl week and was extremely good at Alabama, albeit with 2 likely first rounders. But, he is the poster child for Shanahan's offense and they just decided not to take a chance of losing out.

I could see that being the case.

I see the argument for Lance too. He brings a different skill set to the offense and they can redshirt him for a year, but he is truly a one year wonder, and seems like a risky pick.

I think I lean Jones in a shocker.

I think Lance is another phenomenal fit for the Shanahan system and his upside is higher than Jones.  If you really want to compare a guy to Mahomes in this class, I believe it’s Lance.  They were both sooooo raw, but their potential is off the charts.  He, likely, needs to sit for a season.  Wilson reminds me more of Rodgers (lighting quick release, laser for an arm, athletic and mobile, smart as anyone in the league), Lawrence gives me Elway vibes (pedigree, all the tools, pocket passer with great mobility to pair), Fields is Big Ben meets Deshaun Watson (strong, accurate, athletic, savvy pocket manipulator) and Jones strikes me as a rich man’s A.J. McCarron. (Kind of athletic, but not enough to be considered a running threat.  Pretty accurate.  Decent arm.  Nothing special, but enough to work with in order to get the job done, especially in the right system.  I think a pure WCO is a much better fit for him).

I also get the feeling that the teams evaluating the QBs are not really digging Fields. I think he could do the Green Room waiting alone thing this year.

As long as he doesn’t go to a dumpster fire like, say, Chicago or Houston?  A team would be getting an absolute steal if that were to happen.

Replies bolded within the quote box.

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13 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Oh yes they are.

If they trade out, roll with Sam and he sucks it will be on this CS for staying with Sam.  It will be 1,000 times worse if ZWilson develops and becomes everything people think he will become.  

This staff would have missed on two QBs.  Overrated Sam and they would have underrated Wilson.

 

Don’t agree with this at all. And I’m saying that even if the Jets favoured fields. Not true at all if you didn’t intend on drafting a QB this year. If you’re priority was to trade back and build the roster - AND those picks sucked Macc style - then yes. I agree. But no on Darnold. 

Now if he drafts Wilson, who busts and Fields is a champion, he should be fired into space. 

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It would be just our luck that if we pass on a qb this year, next season the draft is full of Geno Smith caliber quarterbacks.  When you have a chance to get a player with elite traits and production, you don't get cute. You pull the trigger and don't look back.

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14 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I think Lance is another phenomenal fit for the Shanahan system and his upside is higher than Jones.  If you really want to compare a guy to Mahomes in this class, I believe it’s Lance.  They were both sooooo raw, but their potential is off the charts.  He, likely, needs to sit for a season.  Wilson reminds me more of Rodgers (lighting quick release, laser for an arm, athletic and mobile, smart as anyone in the league), Lawrence gives me Elway vibes (pedigree, all the tools, pocket passer with great mobility to pair), Fields is Big Ben meets Deshaun Watson (strong, accurate, athletic, savvy pocket manipulator) and Jones strikes me as a rich man’s A.J. McCarron. (Kind of athletic, but not enough to be considered a running threat.  Pretty accurate.  Decent arm.  Nothing special, but enough to work with in order to get the job done, especially in the right system.  I think a pure WCO is a much better fit for him).

Wow, this is great. It mirrors my thoughts on them exactly  I get a lot of crap for thinking Wilson is the best college QB I have ever seen but that is from my observations of his skillsets not the end results. I mean he throws several "impossible" throws a game .From the first time I watched him I saw Rodgers. 

I was struggling to think of the comp for Lawrence but you nailed it with Elway. 

 It has been interesting to see J.T O' Sullivans opinon on Wilson change with each tape he watches of him, getting more and more excited about him as a prospect.

Interesting note: Michael Lombardi said something fascinating about Wilson on a video of a podcast I saw the other day. He said that the "tape" that has driven Wilson to the top is actually the USC game from 2019. Lombardi said that in that game Wilson looked pretty much exactly like the 2020 Wilson, but then he got injured and struggled. He said that tape makes scouts and GMs think that the 2020 Wilson is the "real" Wilson and that he projects exceedingly well in the NFL.

 

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1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Don’t agree with this at all. And I’m saying that even if the Jets favoured fields. Not true at all if you didn’t intend on drafting a QB this year. If you’re priority was to trade back and build the roster - AND those picks sucked Macc style - then yes. I agree. But no on Darnold. 

Now if he drafts Wilson, who busts and Fields is a champion, he should be fired into space. 

No cant agree at all.  First of all, no one knows that he didnt intend on drafting a QB all along.  For all we know he was moving on from Darnold if he didnt show he could handle the job, draft another QB and reset the clock.  Grabbing a QB is more important to me, you have to have a QB who can win games.  If he doesnt think Sam is that guy, if he thinks Wilson is, then he better go get him.  

And if he takes Wilson who is rated above Fields pretty much everywhere and he busts well that happens, if hes good in other aspects hes not getting fired over that pick.  I just dont get how staying with Sam and if he continues sucking and any QB draft 2 or below hits and becomes a FQB how you dont think JD will get blasted for not taking the QB when he had the chance.  

 

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14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No cant agree at all.  First of all, no one knows that he didnt intend on drafting a QB all along.  For all we know he was moving on from Darnold if he didnt show he could handle the job, draft another QB and reset the clock.  Grabbing a QB is more important to me, you have to have a QB who can win games.  If he doesnt think Sam is that guy, if he thinks Wilson is, then he better go get him.  

And if he takes Wilson who is rated above Fields pretty much everywhere and he busts well that happens, if hes good in other aspects hes not getting fired over that pick.  I just dont get how staying with Sam and if he continues sucking and any QB draft 2 or below hits and becomes a FQB how you dont think JD will get blasted for not taking the QB when he had the chance.  

 

I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t think that GMing has only one book of success to follow. If as a GM you feel you could win with Josh Allen, or Baker, or Wilson, or fields; if you feel you can win with a handful of different quarterbacks if your team is built right, then maybe you don’t feel this is the right time to draft a quarterback. That approach has to be backed up with the right picks of course, but I don’t believe that his mandate has to be - get a quarterback this year (mainly cause our roster is so bad). Which is why I said I wouldn’t hold his feet to the fire if he rolled with Sam and made a lot of great pics. Who knows what happens next year as far as options at quarterback.

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