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My take on the Jets QB situation....


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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Guys..

It's over.  They're trading Sam and taking Wilson.  

It really is time for the we don't need a good QB  crowd to just get on board with the idea that Zach Wilson will be the pick at 2.  

 

I thought the “we don’t need a good QB crowd,” was already in on Wilson being the pick. :) 

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Guys.. It's over.  They're trading Sam and taking Wilson.   It really is time for the we don't need a good QB  crowd to just get on board with the idea that Zach Wilson will be the pick at 2

How many times can the same thread be open.  My goodness this is painful.

Sam is cheap. We have lots of cap. Sam should be retained for 2021. If we draft Wilson, he should have to earn the #1 job by beating out Sam. IF Wilson is everything folks think, a

16 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Only monkey wrench could be if the Jags trade down to a team that wants Wilson and then the Jets would take Lawrence. But, most trade partners would be slots where the Jags could not get a QB and they badly need one.

Or the Jags just take Wilson. I actually prefer Wlson, but Lawrence is still an elite prospect. I think the Jets would not be unhappy. I did see somethin on Twitter that Urban not going was a "test" for Wilson and JAX is actually locked in on Wilson. Was just some random dude but Wilson was super impressive.

Somewhat silly thing but some validity: The Jets do need to consider what happens if they pass on Wilson and he becomes great. The throw Wilson made in the pro day yesterday actually ramps up that pressure a bit. But I think they decided once the measurables came back not only OK but actually very good especially hand size

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46 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Sam is cheap.

We have lots of cap.

Sam should be retained for 2021.

If we draft Wilson, he should have to earn the #1 job by beating out Sam.

IF Wilson is everything folks think, and Sam sucks like most of us think, it'll work itself out, and we get a decent enough backup for one year.

Sam isn't worth much in trade, no one is trading for him to start for them, no one.

Sam may not even be expensive to resign, because no one is signing him to start either.  

There is little loss to retaining Sam, and making Wilson beat him out.

If you don't think Wilson can beat out Sam......you don't really want Wilson, do you?

i get what your saying but if Sam stays he is signed on May 3 for his 5th year extension.

its a  9.7 mil cap hit this year. and 18.8 mil next year. if we cut him after this year how much of that 18.8 mil is a cap hit for us.

i couldnt find it. but what i did find was with Trubinsky he was under the old CBA where the 5th year was NOT guaranteed. he was on the last year of the old CBA

Sams will be Guaranteed. so how much of that 18.8 mil in 2022 will be on our cap if hes cut before year 5.?

if its alot of money and im sure it is there is no way Sams on this team after may 3. there will be much cheaper options what we know JD loves and probably just as good as Sam. and thats if Sams stays for year 5. if hes cut and we still have a big cap hit, no way.

after the season JD was on the Michael Kay Show. as usual he was tight lipped and talking nice about Sam. when Michael asked him if Sams contract will be a factor in his QB decision he said yes!

now some of you will say he did that on purpose to throw us off or whatever, but i dont believe so. i dont believe it would only be 18.8 mil of Woodys money thats gone , i think there going to be a big cap hit for 2022 if they give Sam that extension whether hes here or not in 2022

its not Sams salary JD cares about, its the cap hit in 2022.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Or the Jags just take Wilson. I actually prefer Wlson, but Lawrence is still an elite prospect. I think the Jets would not be unhappy. I did see somethin on Twitter that Urban not going was a "test" for Wilson and JAX is actually locked in on Wilson. Was just some random dude but Wilson was super impressive.

Somewhat silly thing but some validity: The Jets do need to consider what happens if they pass on Wilson and he becomes great. The throw Wilson made in the pro day yesterday actually ramps up that pressure a bit. But I think they decided once the measurables came back not only OK but actually very good especially hand size

Urban wasnt even there yesterday at Wilsons pro day. he sent his OC

we had JD, Saleh and LaFleur.

hey maybe Jax trades the pic for more pics cause like so many on this board keep telling us.....you dont draft a QB when your roster sucks..

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

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2 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

As Greenbean recently said on one of his podcasts.... "Nothing escapes One Jets Drive unless Joe Douglas wants it to". Now take into account the article mentioning that Joe Douglas prefers to draft Zach Wilson but the coaching staff prefers keeping Sammy. That's an intentional smokescreen by design. With that said, my belief is JD is trying to build up the asking price for the 2nd overall pick? He's going to do what his HC wants to do. If Saleh wants Sammy JD will oblige because he trusts the guy he puts in his employ. JD will go through all of the theatrics so he can get the best price possible for the 2nd overall pick. 

So draft night, or possibly just prior, JD trades down from 2 and collects a kings ransom in the process. From there he fills a lot of need areas, gives Sammy the supporting cast he's always deserved, and it's the Robert Saleh/Sammy Darnold show in 2021.....

can't say they are or not enamored with darnold.  i do think saleh, lafleur and douglas are all considering this.  we fans see the game scores and team record and lay everything at the feet of the qb.  that may be fair but it also may not be.  and whatever a fan or even one of those talking heads see in darnold i have a good suspicion that douglas and saleh are seeing the same things.

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As Greenbean recently said on one of his podcasts.... "Nothing escapes One Jets Drive unless Joe Douglas wants it to". Now take into account the article mentioning that Joe Douglas prefers to draft Zach Wilson but the coaching staff prefers keeping Sammy. That's an intentional smokescreen by design. With that said, my belief is JD is trying to build up the asking price for the 2nd overall pick? He's going to do what his HC wants to do. If Saleh wants Sammy JD will oblige because he trusts the guy he puts in his employ. JD will go through all of the theatrics so he can get the best price possible for the 2nd overall pick. 
So draft night, or possibly just prior, JD trades down from 2 and collects a kings ransom in the process. From there he fills a lot of need areas, gives Sammy the supporting cast he's always deserved, and it's the Robert Saleh/Sammy Darnold show in 2021.....



They are taking Zach Wilson. Stop.


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3 hours ago, Dunnie said:

My Take

... order your headbands now before they are sold out...

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

This is both the best take and funniest image. If we do sign this kid the ironic headband taking over the meadowlands on Sunday s would be hysterical.

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5 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

As Greenbean recently said on one of his podcasts.... "Nothing escapes One Jets Drive unless Joe Douglas wants it to". Now take into account the article mentioning that Joe Douglas prefers to draft Zach Wilson but the coaching staff prefers keeping Sammy. That's an intentional smokescreen by design. With that said, my belief is JD is trying to build up the asking price for the 2nd overall pick? He's going to do what his HC wants to do. If Saleh wants Sammy JD will oblige because he trusts the guy he puts in his employ. JD will go through all of the theatrics so he can get the best price possible for the 2nd overall pick. 

So draft night, or possibly just prior, JD trades down from 2 and collects a kings ransom in the process. From there he fills a lot of need areas, gives Sammy the supporting cast he's always deserved, and it's the Robert Saleh/Sammy Darnold show in 2021.....

The price for the 2nd pick just got blown up with the fins trade...the jets have to pick a QB....

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6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Guys..

It's over.  They're trading Sam and taking Wilson.  

It really is time for the we don't need a good QB  crowd to just get on board with the idea that Zach Wilson will be the pick at 2.  

 

I'm happy for you 😜

 

I'm cool with it hope he is what many people think. I'm in the "I don't F****** know but think it's a risky pick based on body of work and level of comp" camp. As you already know.

Would rather Fields but admittedly could be wrong.... I neither tie myself to a prospect or the success of the team... I'll be a Jets fan no matter the outcome.

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I would just take the Hall of fame tackle, unless - of course - I am offered enough scratch or Atlanta wants to deal.  It is the conservative low risk move.  We suck.  We need to get better.  We cannot get skunked on the #2 pick.  The 49ers have a win now team.  We do not.

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16 hours ago, Lurker89 said:

I'm happy for you 😜

 

I'm cool with it hope he is what many people think. I'm in the "I don't F****** know but think it's a risky pick based on body of work and level of comp" camp. As you already know.

Would rather Fields but admittedly could be wrong.... I neither tie myself to a prospect or the success of the team... I'll be a Jets fan no matter the outcome.

I totally get it. 

Taking a QB is a tricky thing, we just ruined/blew the last one.

I don't know what ZW is going to become, no way to know - ..What I am confident and excited about is the skill-set is there, his upside is substantially bigger than Sams. 

Can he translate it to the NFL?   I hope so!

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22 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Guys..

It's over.  They're trading Sam and taking Wilson.  

It really is time for the we don't need a good QB  crowd to just get on board with the idea that Zach Wilson will be the pick at 2.  

 

Zach wilson is going to bust 

It's completely obvious 

I'll still be a fan though, 4 years from now after we trade wilson for a 2nd Rd pick 

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6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Zach wilson is going to bust 

It's completely obvious 

I'll still be a fan though, 4 years from now after we trade wilson for a 2nd Rd pick 

Josh Rosen approves of this message. Quite a few people had him close to the best QB coming out that year. Even more than that had him ahead of Lamar and Allen. Slippery slope. 

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3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Zach wilson is going to bust 

It's completely obvious 

I'll still be a fan though, 4 years from now after we trade wilson for a 2nd Rd pick 

Honestly, I find it interesting how two people like you and I - can look at a player and see completely different perspectives.  Especially with a QB. 

I just don't see how you view him as an obvious bust.  The odds are certainly in your favor to be correct.  I hope you're not, as I'm sure you do too.

What changes that moved from - you don't see the value at 2 - to - he's an obvious bust.

 

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4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Josh Rosen approves of this message. Quite a few people had him close to the best QB coming out that year. Even more than that had him ahead of Lamar and Allen. Slippery slope. 

Ahead of the 2018 draft Bitonti had Josh Allen as the obvious clear pick for the Jets, pronouncing loudly to all 'draft Sam' devotees and anyone else who would listen that Sam Darnold was too soft to ever make it New York.

It's been 18 years since he struck out on Dwayne Roberston in the 2003 draft; maybe he missed out on Robertson's existing knee injury history from college football. By the time Dwayne made it to the NFL, he had little cartilage remaining in one knee, playing all of his shortened NFL career with significant bone on bone knee pain.

18 years later we have a draft eligible talented BYU qb with three significant surgeries in his college football career, both shoulders and one throwing hand.

Bitonti is skeptical, would you blame him?

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23 hours ago, Rob Moore said:

Absolutely.  And a trade down means that in theory many of our impactful players should be on cheap rookie deals...making Sam’s cap numbers (and potential extension numbers if we get that far) even more palatable .

Based on his performance through his time on the Jets, the 5th year option salary is not palatable. In fact, it is toxic.

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35 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Zach wilson is going to bust 

It's completely obvious 

 

I think you've told us this about 100 times already.  We got it.  I have no idea if you are wrong or right, and I find your explanations largely based on speculation, but it is clear that Bitonti is not aboard the Wilson train.  Thanks for letting us know.  Again.  

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23 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

 

What changes that moved from - you don't see the value at 2 - to - he's an obvious bust.

 

No 40 time

Not actually 6'3"

No workout numbers due to an already strained hamstring 

Showed up fat (water heavy for weight) and out of breath at pro day 

Does not set his feet when he throws, poor overall footwork 

There's nothing special about him physically 

And im reasonably certain that as soon as life gets hard in NJ he will take his ball and go home. 

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Just now, Dcat said:

I think you've told us this about 100 times already.  We got it.  I have no idea if you are wrong or right, and I find your explanations largely based on speculation, but it is clear that Paradis is not aboard the Wilson train.  Thanks for letting us know.  Again.  

You're welcome buddy 

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11 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

Ahead of the 2018 draft Bitonti had Josh Allen as the obvious clear pick for the Jets, pronouncing loudly to all 'draft Sam' devotees and anyone else who would listen that Sam Darnold was too soft to ever make it New York.

It's been 18 years since he struck out on Dwayne Roberston in the 2003 draft; maybe he missed out on Robertson's existing knee injury history from college football. By the time Dwayne made it to the NFL, he had little cartilage remaining in one knee, playing all of his shortened NFL career with significant bone on bone knee pain.

18 years later we have a draft eligible talented BYU qb with three significant surgeries in his college football career, both shoulders and one throwing hand.

Bitonti is skeptical, would you blame him?

Nope not at all. I was actually agreeing with him. 

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3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

You're welcome buddy 

Obvoiously I meant Bitonti, not Paradis.  Sorry.  And I wish I had your ability to know how well or poorly Wilson will perform.  Amazing skill set you have.  

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10 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Obvoiously I meant Bitonti, not Paradis.  Sorry.  And I wish I had your ability to know how well or poorly Wilson will perform.  Amazing skill set you have.  

it's called prediction and all it takes to play the game is make an opinion and share it 

You might be right you might be wrong but either way it's fun

future prediction is hard. Ask any weather man or stock trader 

there are other branches of the multiverse where Wilson has a great career

but not in New York with this offense, not in the AFC east vs BB etc.  he's going to get here, be forced to start day 1 and get creamed behind a line with 1 good player and no real weapons 

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Wilson may be a franchise QB. Fields may be a franchise QB. One is red, the other black on the roulette wheel. Sam is a cheap insurance policy and maybe 0/00.

If the Jets pick a QB, it's hard to see why trading Sam for a low 2nd,or 3rd round pick is a better option. 

Since the odds are always with the house in roulette, I prefer trading down to picking a QB who is not a clear cut favorite. Sort of a lesson learned from picking Sam in the first place.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Honestly, I find it interesting how two people like you and I - can look at a player and see completely different perspectives.  Especially with a QB. 

I just don't see how you view him as an obvious bust.  The odds are certainly in your favor to be correct.  I hope you're not, as I'm sure you do too.

What changes that moved from - you don't see the value at 2 - to - he's an obvious bust.

 

Perhaps it's because some of us aren't just looking at his highlight reel, his dreamy Zack Morris good looks, his in-shorts-workouts, or his stats vs. the San Diego Barber Colleges of the NCAA without doing at least a bit more analysis and thought.

Yes, yes, I know, Wilson is "elite" this and "elite" that, just like Sam was "elite this" and "elite that".  Puffery and hype, same as always around here. 

Wilson is nothing, repeat, nothing, till he does it at the NFL level vs. actual competition.  His obviously puffed up college stats mean less than nothing, that's how pathetic his opposition was.  He's also a one year wonder, he wasn't nearly so great in 2019 vs. similar pathetic competition.  His 2019 profermance would have him in the 4th round if that.  He's short (people can hurfablurf all they want, just cause Brees was NFL elite while being short doesn't make being short a positive, it's always a negative).  He's also small framed (he's maybe 210 pounds.  That's small for the modern NFL) and likely injury prone at the pro level at that size. 

TLDR:  He's a huge risk, hype be damned.

This is a QB draft class with nothing but massive risks.  There are no sure things in this class, not even the "lolgenerational" Lawrence.  And let's not kid ourselves, the Homers here would be calling Fields and Lance "elite" if we were picking 6, and Mac Jones "elite" if we were picking 15.  Homers think every possible/likely pick is "the steal of the draft" and "elite this or that".  And 99% of the time, you're wrong, but lol, who cares right?  Never gonna stop more lolprojections with no basis is reality going forward.

Could Wilson be good at the Pro level?  Sure he could.  So could any of the top 5 in this draft.  Is Wilson a sure thing, nope, the same so many of you fools thought Sam was a sure thing.  Don't get used to that puffed up TD:INT ratio from BYU, v.s actual pro CB's he's going to be lucky to a 1:1 ratio guy at least to start, the jump in competition is going to be massive, NFL #4 CB's are better than any CB he's ever played against.  Pro CB's actually know how to cover.

IN before "Wilson just needs time, and weapons".  Some things never change.

How about we forgo the 4th round pick we'll likely get for Sam, and start Wilson by actually making him EARN something for the first time in his life.  When he beats out Sam, on the field, maybe I'll start coming around.  But the Wilson fans are terrified of that idea, Sam MUST be traded, Wilson MUST be declared starter, lol. Like I said, some things never change.

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On 3/27/2021 at 10:53 AM, FidelioJet said:

Guys..

It's over.  They're trading Sam and taking Wilson.  

It really is time for the we don't need a good QB  crowd to just get on board with the idea that Zach Wilson will be the pick at 2.  

 

I would be on board if I thought it was true.  Right now, I just don't know.  Both scenarios can make a lot of sense for a team still needing another year to be competitive.  Taking a possible FQ on a rookie deal makes sense, but has risks.  Trading down and filling many holes on your roster with many draft picks makes sense, but has its risks. 

And that to me is a good sign because there is no information getting out of the war room.  Good on the FO for keeping everyone guessing!

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2 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

I would be on board if I thought it was true.  Right now, I just don't know.  Both scenarios can make a lot of sense for a team still needing another year to be competitive.  Taking a possible FQ on a rookie deal makes sense, but has risks.  Trading down and filling many holes on your roster with many draft picks makes sense, but has its risks. 

And that to me is a good sign because there is no information getting out of the war room.  Good on the FO for keeping everyone guessing!

It is the case now and was always going to be the case.  It was always the only logical move.

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

it's called prediction and all it takes to play the game is make an opinion and share it 

You might be right you might be wrong but either way it's fun

future prediction is hard. Ask any weather man or stock trader 

there are other branches of the multiverse where Wilson has a great career

but not in New York with this offense, not in the AFC east vs BB etc.  he's going to get here, be forced to start day 1 and get creamed behind a line with 1 good player and no real weapons 

I'm comfortable  with this outcome... I don't like change and am getting tired of everyone threatening me with success.

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On 3/27/2021 at 11:09 AM, Warfish said:

Sam is cheap.

We have lots of cap.

Sam should be retained for 2021.

If we draft Wilson, he should have to earn the #1 job by beating out Sam.

IF Wilson is everything folks think, and Sam sucks like most of us think, it'll work itself out, and we get a decent enough backup for one year.

Sam isn't worth much in trade, no one is trading for him to start for them, no one.

Sam may not even be expensive to resign, because no one is signing him to start either.  

There is little loss to retaining Sam, and making Wilson beat him out.

If you don't think Wilson can beat out Sam......you don't really want Wilson, do you?

They should only play Wilson if he's ready. There should be a veteran QB ready to play if Wilson isn't. But that QB shouldn't be Darnold. You can NOT start a new HC regime with a QB controversy. And if you're getting anything for Darnold in a trade they should take it and run before they lose him for nothing. Spare me the talk about a comp pick too. If he is a backup next year the following year he'll get back up money which will mean the Jets won't get a comp pick for him.  If Wilson is the pick then Darnold is a distraction and needs to be removed from the situation. Plain and simple. Get what you can and move on. 

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36 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Perhaps it's because some of us aren't just looking at his highlight reel, his dreamy Zack Morris good looks, his in-shorts-workouts, or his stats vs. the San Diego Barber Colleges of the NCAA without doing at least a bit more analysis and thought.

Yes, yes, I know, Wilson is "elite" this and "elite" that, just like Sam was "elite this" and "elite that".  Puffery and hype, same as always around here. 

Wilson is nothing, repeat, nothing, till he does it at the NFL level vs. actual competition.  His obviously puffed up college stats mean less than nothing, that's how pathetic his opposition was.  He's also a one year wonder, he wasn't nearly so great in 2019 vs. similar pathetic competition.  His 2019 profermance would have him in the 4th round if that.  He's short (people can hurfablurf all they want, just cause Brees was NFL elite while being short doesn't make being short a positive, it's always a negative).  He's also small framed (he's maybe 210 pounds.  That's small for the modern NFL) and likely injury prone at the pro level at that size. 

TLDR:  He's a huge risk, hype be damned.

This is a QB draft class with nothing but massive risks.  There are no sure things in this class, not even the "lolgenerational" Lawrence.  And let's not kid ourselves, the Homers here would be calling Fields and Lance "elite" if we were picking 6, and Mac Jones "elite" if we were picking 15.  Homers think every possible/likely pick is "the steal of the draft" and "elite this or that".  And 99% of the time, you're wrong, but lol, who cares right?  Never gonna stop more lolprojections with no basis is reality going forward.

Could Wilson be good at the Pro level?  Sure he could.  So could any of the top 5 in this draft.  Is Wilson a sure thing, nope, the same so many of you fools thought Sam was a sure thing.  Don't get used to that puffed up TD:INT ratio from BYU, v.s actual pro CB's he's going to be lucky to a 1:1 ratio guy at least to start, the jump in competition is going to be massive, NFL #4 CB's are better than any CB he's ever played against.  Pro CB's actually know how to cover.

IN before "Wilson just needs time, and weapons".  Some things never change.

How about we forgo the 4th round pick we'll likely get for Sam, and start Wilson by actually making him EARN something for the first time in his life.  When he beats out Sam, on the field, maybe I'll start coming around.  But the Wilson fans are terrified of that idea, Sam MUST be traded, Wilson MUST be declared starter, lol. Like I said, some things never change.

First off....I've watched every throw this kids made all year.  Not a highlight reel, I enjoy the Jets and I enjoy this site, so I do my research before getting into something like this.  If you choose to make it out that those of us that really like ZW are just idiots listening to the hype - so be it if it makes you feel better.  Clearly many NFL GM's share a similar sentiment to us.

Like I've said, I believe ZW has traits and a skill-set perfectly suited for todays NFL.  Will he put it all together on the NFL level? I have no idee. But if he does he's going to be special.

But the reality is this...

1) You need a good QB in the NFL

2) As you stated, very clearly, no one is a lock and specifically no QB is ever going to be a lock

Therefor, 

3) If you see a QB that carries the traits that would allow him to be a special, you're in a position to draft him and need a QB = then you do it.    

It's just too important.  And if he does bust then you do it again in 3 years.  You keep trying until you find one.  I don't love that, but it is the reality of the NFL right now.

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10 minutes ago, choon328 said:

They should only play Wilson if he's ready. There should be a veteran QB ready to play if Wilson isn't. But that QB shouldn't be Darnold. You can NOT start a new HC regime with a QB controversy. And if you're getting anything for Darnold in a trade they should take it and run before they lose him for nothing. Spare me the talk about a comp pick too. If he is a backup next year the following year he'll get back up money which will mean the Jets won't get a comp pick for him.  If Wilson is the pick then Darnold is a distraction and needs to be removed from the situation. Plain and simple. Get what you can and move on. 

Agree with the part of he should start when ready, but disagree that Sam cannot be on this roster.  QB contraversy is purely a media/fan driven notion.  I'm not moving Sam for peanuts, and it would be good competition for two similarly athletic QBs that have both had a year in a similar system.

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4 minutes ago, Jdub03 said:

Agree with the part of he should start when ready, but disagree that Sam cannot be on this roster.  QB contraversy is purely a media/fan driven notion.  I'm not moving Sam for peanuts, and it would be good competition for two similarly athletic QBs that have both had a year in a similar system.

It will divide the locker room too. Darnold has loyal teammates that have looked up to him as a leader.  That matters and it will happen

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