Justin Fields Pro Day 3/30 (for those still holding on)

[Mogglez]

30 minutes ago, nycdan said:

In case this wasn't posted yet.  Every throw by Fields today:

 

Missed a lot of it due to work.  Thanks for this.

[JohnnyLV]

14 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Go to about 7:00 on the full pro day video I just posted.

"I can show you a ton of tape where his eyes go from 1 to 2 to 3 consistently..."

Later on around 8:58: "If you're talking abut ceilings for all the QBs in the draft, I could make the argument that Fields has the highest of any of them."

 

 

Yes, after he says that Fields DOES get hung up on his first read and hold the ball too long. And then directly after your statement, he says that the problem is that after he goes to the 2nd read he is slow in pulling the trigger. He then proceeds to blame it partially on OU running a lot of option rates. So he says in concrete terms that he is not a quick decision maker after his first read is not there. That is a terrible trait for a NFL QB to have and something he may never overcome. Jeremiah is not there to rip Fields, he knows Fields fans are watching. But that sequence was him describing a negative not a positive. 

Mayock probably would have ripped him he had built up the reputation to do it.

In terms of reads, Wilson sometimes gets to his 3rd and 4th read super and lets the ball go instantly he sees the open. It is shocking to see how quickly he can look one way, switch to the other side and throw the ball all in what seems like a single motion.

[56mehl56]

7 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

In defense of Simm his predictions on QBs have been scarily accurate. Consistently. Could that change this year, sure. But as an evaluator of QBs from a predictive standpoint no one has been close. And he has gone against the grain a lot

What's the sample size.  I'd have to think its relatively small and when he was wrong , it wasn't propagated all over social media. 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

Missed a lot of it due to work.  Thanks for this.

Even the folks who think this QB class is overhyped would have to admit that a few of these guys are oozing raw talent 

[sec101row23]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

Yeah but 1 read QB dude.  Dwayne Haskins.  Ohio St.  Slow processor. 

I can’t believe we haven’t heard anyone say that he should convert to a RB yet.   

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

What's the sample size.  I'd have to think its relatively small and when he was wrong , it wasn't propagated all over social media. 

You can go back and look at the last 4-5 drafts at least. He’s been on a hot streak. 

[Mogglez]

Just now, slimjasi said:

Even the folks who think this QB class is overhyped would have to admit that a few of these guys are oozing raw talent 

I drool over the idea of drafting every single one of them, except Mac Jones.  That’s the one I think will be “ok” and that’s it.  

Of course this means Shanny is gonna take him and turn him into a star to make me look like a total idiot 5 years down the road.

[JustInFudge]

40 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Chris Simms doubling down on his Fields narrative.  I know he's been solid in the past, but putting Fields below Kellen Mond?  Feels like there's something not quite right going on.  Maybe he'll look like a genius in 2 years but I'm skeptical.

 

"pure throwing and decision making" - this is where he just loses me, his mechanics are flawless and ball comes out with absolute ease.  His body is so quiet when he throws, his base is solid, beautiful compact classic behind the ear, holds the ball high.  Makes no sense.  And he decided to the tune of 86 Td's and 14 turnovers at 68% comp. in college. lol

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

I can’t believe we haven’t heard anyone say that he should convert to a RB yet.   

I also find it amazing that OSU wins so many games with an offense that is so dumbed down they rely on sideline flash cards to let the QB know where to throw you know because he's a slow processor . 

[Dcat]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

I've told my girlfriend and likely future wife that I'm good at 2-3 and she agrees lol. After 2 or 3, I'm getting a vasectomy lol 

FYI...  everyone I know with 3...  including me.. the third was an acc unplanned.  Just saying.  One of those things where 2 = 3.  

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, RogerVick1980 said:

Well I’ll try my best over  time  to prove my worth  to more cowbell with my posts.

 

Changing your name from a Joe Walton first round bust might help

[56mehl56]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

You can go back and look at the last 4-5 drafts at least. He’s been on a hot streak. 

Weathermen sometimes get a week worth of forecasts right - it happens just saying . 

[Adoni Beast]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

I drool over the idea of drafting every single one of them, except Mac Jones.  That’s the one I think will be “ok” and that’s it.  

Of course this means Shanny is gonna take him and turn him into a star to make me look like a total idiot 5 years down the road.

The fact that they’re still keeping Garropolo makes me think the pick will be Trey Lance or Justin Fields and they’re posturing so no one tries to jump them at 2 with a godfather for the Jets. 

[JohnnyLV]

21 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

No I got it, and I wasn’t talking about you specifically, I meant the overall narratives around these guys. Fields is an athlete, Jones is a quick decision maker, etc. Jones threw over a third of his passes at or near the line of scrimmage, threw largely to his first read or a check down; of course his time to throw is going to be lower. Is that “quick decision making” or an offense designed to get the ball out quick to the best playmakers in the country? It’s these ridiculous, oversimplified, cut-and-paste narratives that miss the context.

Sure. I mean the whole thing is so hard.  Darnold was awful protecting the ball in college. In like 2 weeks of coaching he fixed that issue mostly for good. so you think "wow he is really coachable" but he never really learned how to go through reads and read defenses. FWIW I hate this answer:

 

You want to stake your franchise on a guy with this defensive of an answer, when we know from experience that learning to go through reads is not guaranteed and also diminishing his own value noting how good his receivers are?

[Paradis]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

I think to the degree that Justin Fields is battle tested - is consistently undervalued. 

That said - I doubt anyone making as crucial a decision as JD & co. are making - are reducing their decision to Wilson vs Fields - who's cooler.... i think they're evaluating these guys independent of themselves and making a decision exclusively in relation to what want to do offensively. 

[sec101row23]

Just now, 56mehl56 said:

I also find it amazing that OSU wins so many games with an offense that is so dumbed down they rely on sideline flash cards to let the QB know where to throw you know because he's a slow processor . 

Agreed.  This narrative that has developed has been perplexing to say the least.   I mentioned in another thread a while back that it must be one of the greatest  most simple schemes ever to have a QB complete 70% of his first reads.   Imagine  being able to scheme your first read open and have the pass caught and completed 70% of the time.  Why isn’t everyone running this offense??   

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

Sure. I mean the whole thing is so hard.  Darnold was awful protecting the ball in college. In like 2 weeks of coaching he fixed that issue mostly for good. so you think "wow he is really coachable" but he never really learned how to go through reads and read defenses. FWIW I hate this answer:

 

You want to stake your franchise on a guy with this defensive of an answer, when we know from experience that learning to go through reads is not guaranteed and also diminishing his own value noting how good his receivers are?

When Trevor Lawrence or Jones or Zach hit their first read quick slant as part of their offense no one blinks an eye , why should it be different with Fields because his offense is different then the others.  Its a false and lazy narrative that is now being regurgitated ad -nauseum. 

[JohnnyLV]

10 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

The fact that they’re still keeping Garropolo makes me think the pick will be Trey Lance or Justin Fields and they’re posturing so no one tries to jump them at 2 with a godfather for the Jets. 

It will be Jones IMO

[Dcat]

3 hours ago, HighPitch said:

This is all great news. Leaves the pats with no qbs to select.

2022 starting QB for the Cheats: Deshaun Watson, post settlements, post NFL suspension, post apologies and serious therapy.  They will get the 'new' Watson.  

[Augustiniak]

15 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

You can go back and look at the last 4-5 drafts at least. He’s been on a hot streak. 

Simms won me over with his quote about darnold “he wants the pocket to break down”.  

[56mehl56]

Just now, Dcat said:

2022 starting QB for the Cheats: Deshaun Watson, post settlements, post NFL suspension, post apologies and serious therapy.  They will get the 'new' Watson.  

And he'll be given the keys to Uncle Bob's day spa. 

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Simms won me over with his quote about darnold “he wants the pocket to break down”.  

Everyone knows Darnold has always been better on the run and when plays break down , its been that way since his first starts at USC. Really nothing special about that quote. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

Everyone knows Darnold has always been better on the run and when plays break down , its been that way since his first starts at USC. Really nothing special about that quote. 

it says a lot, b/c the implication is not that he enjoys throwing on the run.  the implication is that darnold is not comfortable in the pocket and wants the protection to break down so he can freelance.  and that's exactly what we've seen here, he's not comfortable in the pocket.

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

it says a lot, b/c the implication is not that he enjoys throwing on the run.  the implication is that darnold is not comfortable in the pocket and wants the protection to break down so he can freelance.  and that's exactly what we've seen here, he's not comfortable in the pocket.

And..........

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I think to the degree that Justin Fields is battle tested - is consistently undervalued. 

That said - I doubt anyone making as crucial a decision as JD & co. are making - are reducing their decision to Wilson vs Fields - who's cooler.... i think they're evaluating these guys independent of themselves and making a decision exclusively in relation to what want to do offensively. 

I guess so. Evaluating QBs has changed a lot, and I don’t think the draft takes industry has caught up with these changes at all, which is why they elevate guys like Trubisky and Zack Wilson, and disparage the Lamar Jacksons and Patrick Mahomeses of the world. That said, I keep reading that we can’t disparage Wilson’s level of competition because GMs draft based on tools, but then Justin Fields goes out and shows infinitely better “tools“ than Wilson, but then it’s no longer about tools or something

[Dcat]

4 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I feel like Fields is going to be more successful the first couple years than Wilson because rookies with legs tend to have a more immediate impact, and the board will lose its sh*t over it. And that is gonna be hiiiiiiiiilarious.

QFT

[Augustiniak]

Just now, 56mehl56 said:

And..........

and most draft analysts weren't saying that darnold would not be a good pocket passer.  so when you think about it, simms really identified darnold's primary weakness well before he was drafted.  

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Dcat said:

QFT

i think wilson will hit the ground running wherever he lands.  his skill set translates well to the pros, quick decisions and a quick release and good intermediate accuracy.  same with burrow.

[jvill 51]

27 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Yes, after he says that Fields DOES get hung up on his first read and hold the ball too long. And then directly after your statement, he says that the problem is that after he goes to the 2nd read he is slow in pulling the trigger. He then proceeds to blame it partially on OU running a lot of option rates. So he says in concrete terms that he is not a quick decision maker after his first read is not there. That is a terrible trait for a NFL QB to have and something he may never overcome. Jeremiah is not there to rip Fields, he knows Fields fans are watching. But that sequence was him describing a negative not a positive. 

Mayock probably would have ripped him he had built up the reputation to do it.

In terms of reads, Wilson sometimes gets to his 3rd and 4th read super and lets the ball go instantly he sees the open. It is shocking to see how quickly he can look one way, switch to the other side and throw the ball all in what seems like a single motion.

Go back and look at scouting reports of, just for instance, Watson and Herbert. It's a fair criticism (not that he can't make reads, but that he is sometimes too slow in pulling the trigger when he goes to his second+ read). Its also an extremely common criticism of QBs coming out of college, and one that certainly can and demonstrably has been overcome over time. Fields himself improved on it from last year to this year.

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

and most draft analysts weren't saying that darnold would not be a good pocket passer.  so when you think about it, simms really identified darnold's primary weakness well before he was drafted.  

Which tells you exactly what about draft analysts - they all see what they want to see. When they're wrong no one cares , when their right fans prop them up like some great Oracles of football wisdom. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

Which tells you exactly what about draft analysts - they all see what they want to see. When they're wrong no one cares , when their right fans prop them up like some great Oracles of football wisdom. 

main point here is that simms has been right about many of the top qb prospects in recent years.  he nailed the narrative about darnold and fwiw he loves wilson.

[nycdan]

23 minutes ago, Dcat said:

FYI...  everyone I know with 3...  including me.. the third was an acc unplanned.  Just saying.  One of those things where 2 = 3.  

When people ask me how many kids I have, I say "I wanted three until I had two.  Then I wanted one."

 

[JustInFudge]

23 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I think to the degree that Justin Fields is battle tested - is consistently undervalued. 

That said - I doubt anyone making as crucial a decision as JD & co. are making - are reducing their decision to Wilson vs Fields - who's cooler.... i think they're evaluating these guys independent of themselves and making a decision exclusively in relation to what want to do offensively. 

It's another situation where you think of how this is similar to the dismantling of Watson.  You watched him go for like 900 total yards 8 Tds and 1 pick vs Bama in back to back Natty's and it like, didnt matter. 

I'd argue both times Fields played Lawrence head to head in playoff games that he was the better QB on those days, for some reason, that doesnt matter.  

 

[joewilly12]

Fields looks bigger faster and stronger than Wilson. 

[Lith]

1 hour ago, heymangold said:

Fromm was legit Fields’ freshman year.  And the year prior he led them to a national championship game.  Curious if he would have or could have beat out Fromm the next year.  I think @Lithis more in tune to the saga then I am.

It was a tough situation for Kirby.  Fromm came in as a true freshman after Jacob Eason's injury and led the team to within one play of the National Championship.  Fields was a freshman next year,, but it was Fromm's job to start the season,, which I think was the right call.  Where Kirby failed, imo, is in how he went about bringing Fields along.  He had an RPO package for Fields but never trusted him to throw in SEC games.  I think he threw about 10-12 passes in SEC play as a freshman.  Smart never really trusted him with the offense.  Rather than sit another season behind Fromm, he transferred, and I can't blame him.  

There were some rumblings around the program at the time that players were upset that we were letting the better QB get away.  Then when Fromm struggled his junior year, it was pretty clear that we did.