Justin Fields Pro Day 3/30 (for those still holding on)

[joewilly12]

Urban Meyer is in attendance. 

[slimjasi]

26 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Weathermen sometimes get a week worth of forecasts right - it happens just saying . 

I’m not sure if you are giving him enough credit. How often do weathermen go against the grain of  conventional wisdom/popular opinion?

2017:

Mahomes as the best QB (against the consensus)

(I don’t believe he released a complete ranking beyond this)
 

2018: 

best to worst: Jackson, Allen, mayfield, Darnold, Rosen (against the consensus again) 
 

2019:

Best to worst: Murray, Lock, Haskins, Finley, Stidham, Jones 

2020: 

Best to worst: Burrow, Herbert, Love, Tagovailoa

 

that isn’t bad  

[maury77]

5 minutes ago, Lith said:

It was a tough situation for Kirby.  Fromm came in as a true freshman after Jacob Eason's injury and led the team to within one play of the National Championship.  Fields came in as a freshman, but it was Fromm's job to start the season,, which I think was the right call.  Where Kirby failed, imo, is in how he went about bringing Fields along.  He had an RPO package for Fields but never trusted him to throw in SEC games.  I think he threw about 10-12 passes in SEC play as a freshman.  Smart never really trusted him with the offense.  Rather than sit another season behind Fromm, he transferred, and I can't blame him.  

There were some rumblings around the program at the time that players were upset that we were letting the better QB get away.  Then when Fromm struggled his junior year, it was pretty clear that we did.

Sucks that you are about to let Fields get away as a QB for the second time

[Shockwave]

9 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Fields looks bigger faster and stronger than Wilson. 

Fields is 6’3, 225 and runs a 4.4. 

He’s Bigger, Stronger and Faster then half the Linebackers in the NFL. 

[56mehl56]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I’m not sure if you are giving him enough credit. How often do weathermen go against the grain of  conventional wisdom/popular opinion?

2017:

Mahomes as the best QB (against the consensus)

(I don’t believe he released a complete ranking beyond this)
 

2018: 

best to worst: Jackson, Allen, mayfield, Darnold, Rosen (against the consensus again) 
 

2019:

Best to worst: Murray, Lock, Haskins, Finley, Stidham, Jones 

2020: 

Best to worst: Burrow, Herbert, Love, Tagovailoa

 

that isn’t bad  

I'm not discrediting Simms I just don't put all that much credence into what analysts write/say. If he was part of a coaching staff or front office where his job depended on his input i'd probably listen more. If he was that good you  have to believe he'd be on someone's staff already. 

[Lith]

10 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Sucks that you are about to let Fields get away as a QB for the second time

The irony is not lost on me.  Though if we go with Wilson and win with him, I can live with it.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

I'm not discrediting Simms I just don't put all that much credence into what analysts write/say. If he was part of a coaching staff or front office where his job depended on his input i'd probably listen more. If he was that good you  have to believe he'd be on someone's staff already. 

Disagree with that assumption. Being on someone’s staff is a lot of work with not that much glory. If I were him, I’d much rather be a media guy. Bullsh*t with mike Florio for like an hour a day and make plenty of bank. 

[sec101row23]

12 minutes ago, Lith said:

It was a tough situation for Kirby.  Fromm came in as a true freshman after Jacob Eason's injury and led the team to within one play of the National Championship.  Fields was a freshman next year,, but it was Fromm's job to start the season,, which I think was the right call.  Where Kirby failed, imo, is in how he went about bringing Fields along.  He had an RPO package for Fields but never trusted him to throw in SEC games.  I think he threw about 10-12 passes in SEC play as a freshman.  Smart never really trusted him with the offense.  Rather than sit another season behind Fromm, he transferred, and I can't blame him.  

There were some rumblings around the program at the time that players were upset that we were letting the better QB get away.  Then when Fromm struggled his junior year, it was pretty clear that we did.

Honestly, that experience in Georgia really shaped his outlook and put a massive chip on his shoulder regarding his ability as a passer.   I’ve mentioned this before but, I really think Justin walked into OSU wanting and needing to prove he was an elite passer and not just a good dual threat college QB.   That experience with Kirby not allowing him to run same offense as Fromm really opened his eyes and made him think about how he was viewed as a QB.   I think he went out of his way to try to hang in the pocket as long as he could, sometimes to a fault, just to prove people wrong.   He desperately didn’t want to be labeled a runner.    I don’t buy the processing speed stuff or the lack of ability to go through progressions, that’s just false narratives.   Justin’s biggest fault IMO was trying too hard to dispel the notion that he was just a running QB.  

[legler82]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Yes, after he says that Fields DOES get hung up on his first read and hold the ball too long. And then directly after your statement, he says that the problem is that after he goes to the 2nd read he is slow in pulling the trigger. He then proceeds to blame it partially on OU running a lot of option rates. So he says in concrete terms that he is not a quick decision maker after his first read is not there. That is a terrible trait for a NFL QB to have and something he may never overcome. Jeremiah is not there to rip Fields, he knows Fields fans are watching. But that sequence was him describing a negative not a positive. 

Mayock probably would have ripped him he had built up the reputation to do it.

In terms of reads, Wilson sometimes gets to his 3rd and 4th read super and lets the ball go instantly he sees the open. It is shocking to see how quickly he can look one way, switch to the other side and throw the ball all in what seems like a single motion.

I think Wilson predetermines a lot of his throws & his eye manipulation makes it looks like he’s going through reads but I’m no Phil Simms.

[jvill 51]

7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I’m not sure if you are giving him enough credit. How often do weathermen go against the grain of  conventional wisdom/popular opinion?

2017:

Mahomes as the best QB (against the consensus)

(I don’t believe he released a complete ranking beyond this)
 

2018: 

best to worst: Jackson, Allen, mayfield, Darnold, Rosen (against the consensus again) 
 

2019:

Best to worst: Murray, Lock, Haskins, Finley, Stidham, Jones 

2020: 

Best to worst: Burrow, Herbert, Love, Tagovailoa

 

that isn’t bad  

Not sure about 2019 and 2020, but in 2017 he had Trubisky over Mahomes and Watson as barely a first rounder (here's his 2017 mock based on his own personal rankings and what he would do as a GM: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2705493-2017-nfl-mock-draft-chris-simms-final-predictions ), and I know for sure he changed his 2018 rankings. He was still down on Darnold, but I think he bumped Rosen up to 1 or 2 and dropped Jackson down to 4 or 5. He was high on Mahomes, and Herbert over Tua looks good right now, but taking this guy's word as gospel is too much IMO.

[Adoni Beast]

49 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

It will be Jones IMO

That’s what all the signs (pro day attendance) and reports are so you’re probably right.

But my eyes see Fields or Lance + Shanny Jr and I can’t see him trading up that much capital for Dad Bod Mac.

If Mac fell to them at 12, or they traded a couple 2nds to move up in the top 10...I could reconcile with this idea better.

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, Adoni Beast said:

That’s what all the signs (pro day attendance) and reports are so you’re probably right.

But my eyes see Fields or Lance + Shanny Jr and I can’t see him trading up that much capital for Dad Bod Mac.

If Mac fell to them at 12, or they traded a couple 2nds to move up in the top 10...I could reconcile with this idea better.

I just can’t fathom trading up and giving up all that draft capital for Jones.   It just doesn’t add up for me.  

[Paradis]

If the Wilson/Mahomes and Watson/Fields comp-narratives play out as such, I can live with either... 

But If I’m choosing, I want the Fields story. That’s just about what I want to watch on Sundays. 

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

Not sure about 2019 and 2020, but in 2017 he had Trubisky over Mahomes and Watson as barely a first rounder (here's his 2017 mock based on his own personal rankings and what he would do as a GM: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2705493-2017-nfl-mock-draft-chris-simms-final-predictions ), and I know for sure he changed his 2018 rankings. He was still down on Darnold, but I think he bumped Rosen up to 1 or 2 and dropped Jackson down to 4 or 5. He was high on Mahomes, and Herbert over Tua looks good right now, but taking this guy's word as gospel is too much IMO.

No, no. That’s a mock draft - mock drafts are based on what you think will actually happen. (It’s the difference between Mel kiper’s “big board” and his “mock draft”) 

I distinctly remember Simms saying that Mahomes would be the most special QB in that draft and had the highest ceiling. 
 

And, to my knowledge, those rankings for 2018 that I posted were his only published list. If you have a link that says otherwise, please provide it. 

 

[Chrebetfan80]

2 hours ago, football guy said:

They run a full-on spread right now, and I can't see how this could be anywhere close to accurate. RPO and screens are a staple of the Ohio State offense. Maybe they're chalking them up as play-action, but comes off as very misleading above. 

Ultimately the point is that if Fields were to have any chance at producing in his rookie season, he would need to be used the way the Ravens use Jackson. And it's very possible he would thrive in that, but if you took Jackson and asked him to play in the offense we're looking to implement, he would be a bottom 12 QB at best. It's not meant to be a slight, it's just realistic. 

I would tend to agree here that I think those numbers are off.  OSU may not do as many bubble screens and Fast screens as other spread teams, but they still have a heavy RPO aspect to their game.  I also think Mac Jones numbers are low.. I personally know that Sark has a massssssive RPO aspect to his offense however at a glance you would think they're just running slants and posts in a drop back play action game.  Its really a presnap read on defensive alignment off inside zone.  Now the difference here is that the other portion of Sarks offense is play action full field progression reads. 

[Adoni Beast]

13 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I just can’t fathom trading up and giving up all that draft capital for Jones.   It just doesn’t add up for me.  

I don’t believe it. I’m sure I’ll be wrong, but I just don’t believe it.

You don’t trade that much for him, and I actually like Mac Jones. But you don’t go up that much for a guy who has a ceiling of the starting QB you already have on your roster and aren’t pleased enough with.

You saw his pro day? Mehhhhh looked like a goof the whole time, and rattled as hell missing deep shots.

People forget how great RGIII looked under Shanny + Shanny Jr before RGIII+Snyder+RGIII brand agents demanded he become a pocket passed “like Manning.”

Shanny Jr might have his sights on adjusting his offense like that with Fields or Lance.

[Chrebetfan80]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

Missed a lot of it due to work.  Thanks for this.

you work????  ??

[Mogglez]

1 minute ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

you work????  ??

In addition to napping, yes ?!

[JohnnyLV]

31 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I think Wilson predetermines a lot of his throws & his eye manipulation makes it looks like he’s going through reads but I’m no Phil Simms.

OK but isn't that good QB ing? I mean I see a one one one matchup on my left, take the snap focus on slot right to move the safety and then switch and throw to the 1 on 1 matchup left. That is not a flaw. Brady lives off that.

[sec101row23]

8 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I don’t believe it. I’m sure I’ll be wrong, but I just don’t believe it.

You don’t trade that much for him, and I actually like Mac Jones. But you don’t go up that much for a guy who has a ceiling of the starting QB you already have on your roster and aren’t pleased enough with.

You saw his pro day? Mehhhhh looked like a goof the whole time, and rattled as hell missing deep shots.

People forget how great RGIII looked under Shanny + Shanny Jr before RGIII+Snyder+RGIII brand agents demanded he become a pocket passed “like Manning.”

Shanny Jr might have his sights on adjusting his offense like that with Fields or Lance.

I could absolutely see him wanting the athletic QBs, why wouldn’t you in that offense?   Opens up a lot more of the playbook.  

[jvill 51]

15 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

No, no. That’s a mock draft - mock drafts are based on what you think will actually happen. (It’s the difference between Mel kiper’s “big board” and his “mock draft”) 

I distinctly remember Simms saying that Mahomes would be the most special QB in that draft and had the highest ceiling. 
 

And, to my knowledge, those rankings for 2018 that I posted were his only published list. If you have a link that says otherwise, please provide it. 

 

If you read the primer to the mock draft he specifically says: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and that's why you'll probably find my mock draft different than others. I've put a lot of time and work into the evaluation of these draft prospects, and I'm basing my mock on my own evaluations." He might have said Mahomes had the highest ceiling, but he went with Trubisky over him.

Video below shows his changed rankings for 2018, fast forward to about 1:04:50. Updated rankings are Allen, Rosen, Mayfield, Jackson, Darnold. His 2018 mock draft, which followed the same format, had the same order so I'm guessing he stayed with that order (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2771808-2018-nfl-mock-draft-chris-simms-final-predictions )

 

[JohnnyLV]

29 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

That’s what all the signs (pro day attendance) and reports are so you’re probably right.

But my eyes see Fields or Lance + Shanny Jr and I can’t see him trading up that much capital for Dad Bod Mac.

If Mac fell to them at 12, or they traded a couple 2nds to move up in the top 10...I could reconcile with this idea better.

Not saying I agree with it at all, but lots of things point to it. As always we do not know the real personalities of this guys, how well they do the white board, what teammates really think, how good their retention is on information provided, etc... I think I know that Wilson is good from the weekly BYU interviews where he comes across as likeable, solid, humble and really good at breaking down plays. It is part of why I am sold on him. But I don't know if that resource is available for Fields and Jones. Jones may be lighting up the Zoom calls and Fields really struggling. 

[freestater]

I've become fine with the fact that we're taking Dimples, but damn I'd love to root for this kid as our very own. 

[legler82]

7 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

OK but isn't that good QB ing? I mean I see a one one one matchup on my left, take the snap focus on slot right to move the safety and then switch and throw to the 1 on 1 matchup left. That is not a flaw. Brady lives off that.

It can be good and bad. I’ve seen him look off open WRs, throw to a covered ones instead because that’s where he planned to throw pre-snap. He gets away with it because of his arm talent & the competition he’s going against. 

[FidelioJet]

52 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I'm not discrediting Simms I just don't put all that much credence into what analysts write/say. If he was part of a coaching staff or front office where his job depended on his input i'd probably listen more. If he was that good you  have to believe he'd be on someone's staff already. 

But it does seem pretty clear that the front office guys seems to really like Wilson - certainly better than Fields or anyone else not named Lawrence,

[Paradis]

12 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I could absolutely see him wanting the athletic QBs, why wouldn’t you in that offense?   Opens up a lot more of the playbook.  

 

23 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I don’t believe it. I’m sure I’ll be wrong, but I just don’t believe it.

You don’t trade that much for him, and I actually like Mac Jones. But you don’t go up that much for a guy who has a ceiling of the starting QB you already have on your roster and aren’t pleased enough with.

You saw his pro day? Mehhhhh looked like a goof the whole time, and rattled as hell missing deep shots.

People forget how great RGIII looked under Shanny + Shanny Jr before RGIII+Snyder+RGIII brand agents demanded he become a pocket passed “like Manning.”

Shanny Jr might have his sights on adjusting his offense like that with Fields or Lance.

For anyone who thinks SF is stuck on Jones simply b/c of system fit - listen to Kyle 

 

[legler82]

39 minutes ago, Paradis said:

If the Wilson/Mahomes and Watson/Fields comp-narratives play out as such, I can live with either... 

But If I’m choosing, I want the Fields story. That’s just about what I want to watch on Sundays. 

It may be more Darnold/Allen 2018.

[slimjasi]

9 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

If you read the primer to the mock draft he specifically says: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and that's why you'll probably find my mock draft different than others. I've put a lot of time and work into the evaluation of these draft prospects, and I'm basing my mock on my own evaluations." He might have said Mahomes had the highest ceiling, but he went with Trubisky over him.

Video below shows his changed rankings for 2018, fast forward to about 1:04:50. Updated rankings are Allen, Rosen, Mayfield, Jackson, Darnold. His 2018 mock draft, which followed the same format, had the same order so I'm guessing he stayed with that order (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2771808-2018-nfl-mock-draft-chris-simms-final-predictions )

 

I understand what you are saying, but I don’t think you can use a mock draft in the context that you are using it, even with his stated qualifier. You want to be right, so you are going to give some weight to what the consensus is/what you are hearing the team might actually do. 
 

as for the switch of his rankings in 2018, that is interesting but doesn’t change the fact that his published list (initial evaluations?) was very accurate. 

[legler82]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

For anyone who thinks SF is stuck on Jones simply b/c of system fit - listen to Kyle 

 

So he wasn’t talking about Jones there?

[jetspenguin]

Maybe SF already decided on Fields and doesn't want to tip their hand by attending the workout. Maybe they are still concerned about someone trading with the Jets and getting the guy they really want and they have Fields rated ahead of Wilson

Maybe they don't want the Jets to know how much they love Fields so we don't pick him

They did NOT trade away the new few years on a guy who was a mid 1st rounder a few weeks ago and looked poor at his own scripted pro-day.

Sent from the Suicide Watch desk.

[Paradis]

1 minute ago, legler82 said:

So he wasn’t talking about Jones there?

I don’t think so. In fact still im shocked they went to Bama over OSU pro day. Somethings up. 

[jetspenguin]

Disagree with that assumption. Being on someone’s staff is a lot of work with not that much glory. If I were him, I’d much rather be a media guy. Bullsh*t with mike Florio for like an hour a day and make plenty of bank. 

Plus he has already said he wants to be a GM

Sent from the Suicide Watch desk.

[legler82]

10 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

Maybe SF already decided on Fields and doesn't want to tip their hand by attending the workout. Maybe they are still concerned about someone trading with the Jets and getting the guy they really want and they have Fields rated ahead of Wilson

Maybe they don't want the Jets to know how much they love Fields so we don't pick him

They did NOT trade away the new few years on a guy who was a mid 1st rounder a few weeks ago and looked poor at his own scripted pro-day.

Sent from the Suicide Watch desk.


 

There’s precedent. They didn’t attend Bosa’s pro day.

[Paradis]

3 minutes ago, legler82 said:

There’s precedent. They didn’t attend Bosa’s pro day.

It’s not like he hasn’t been around Fields. 

 

[legler82]

Just now, Paradis said:

It’s not like he hasn’t been around Fields. 

 

I read that Fields is going to have either another pro day or private workout for the 9ers.