Justin Fields Pro Day 3/30 (for those still holding on)

[56mehl56]

3 hours ago, Bugg said:

Vs. a bunch of Northwestern  kids more likely to be on their way to Wall Street or grad school, Fields looked absolutely flustered. If only NFL games were played in shorts and t-shirts without defenses, Fields would be The Man. 

You do know NW had one of the best defenses in the NCAA last season, in addition Pat Fitzgerald drew up a game plan specifically to take Fields away.  They focused so much on stopping the QB they let Trey Sermon rush for 330 yards. But I guess when you don't play cupcakes like BYU you can't be considered good.  

[Jimmy 2 Times]

1 hour ago, Jethead said:

Fromm had a real mind meld with the coach who was predisposed to overlook what later became obvious limitations compared to a 5 star like Fields. If Field had stayed around he would have ended up QB1 but he didn't think he was getting a fair shake and he was right.

Fromm was a 5 star too. 

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

Interesting take on his view.  I would say the exact same applies to your view on Wilson, my friend.

Pot...kettle...black, you know

Me?  I have my fingers crossed that we come out of this with a good QB. I've been leaning Fields since December, but never locked in.   But, whichever one it is.  I don't trust ANY of the overly extreme evals coming from JN, thank you very much.  The more extreme the promo is for one of these guys, the less it can be trusted. 

I do agree , I'd be happy with either QB , but I much prefer Fields. We cannot hitch Darnold to a  brand new CS and offensive scheme its just unfathomable anyone would want to go that route and that's just what most analysts stated we should do when we hired Saleh. 

[derp]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think the Jets' "situation" for a QB is being overblown massively, and a lot of it's based on poor usage last year, .

• The OL certainly isn't elite but the first-string line should be adequate enough by Sept.
• They have enough at WR even before the draft.
• Except for maybe Perine, the other RBs are fast/quick enough to reach the edge in outside zone designs (unlike Bell & Gore), and they'll be doing RBBC anyway to keep their legs fresh. e.g. Mostert was just super-fast not a tackle-breaking machine.
• We'd all like to see a TE upgrade after Herndon's disappointing past 2 seasons, but the position wasn't featured under Gase (incredibly, even while all the WRs were injured) and it's hard for a player to get into a rhythm when he's barely targeted for 10 straight weeks, typically running 4 yard patterns into traffic. Drops & fumbles weren't issues with him until this year.

Ultimately 100% expect them to draft:

• a day 1-2 guard; 
• I expect see a TE by the end of the day 2 -- Douglas did make a push for Jonnu Smith in FA, and wouldn't have if he was totally satisfied with what he's got; 

Then possibly:

• somewhere in the draft 50-50 they'll take a RB; depends on who's available when not must-draft
• also possible they'll take a second OL (e.g. a tackle to groom to take over for Fant next year), but again that'd be more based on how the draft unfolds rather than a rigid plan to draft two of them; they can always target RT with one of their first 3 picks next year if Fant underwhelms in 2021.

Their tackles and center are set for the year, barring something unexpected. Becton is the only one with elite ability, and I do expect him to get even better, but at least in pass protection with a full summer those 3 should be adequate as a trio for the year.

Then there are the guards between them, which make many/most Jets fans nauseous here in March. While I may presume one of the starters will be a rookie from pick 23 / 33 (if JD doesn't trade down from there), it'll ultimately be the best two among Lewis (frontrunner #1), Andrews, GVR, Clark, and a 2021 rookie (frontrunner #2). Other names could be given a chance - e.g. Edoga, maybe we get lucky with an UDFA - but those are the 5 main candidates. 

The fact is most 2020 playoff teams had less OL investment than the 2021 Jets are likely to field.

Again, in an attempt to be brief - I think the situation is better than most fans tend to suggest (worst of everything in the league hyperbole).

That said I also think that we are used to absolutely horrific offensive talent and the current group of non-QB offensive players is still comfortably below average and not a good situation for quarterback development.

Put another way/kind of tossing this back at you. The recent track record of quarterbacks drafted in the top two, three, even five is pretty horrific. Most of the best quarterbacks in the league were actually drafted a bit later. To me that means one of two things: the way NFL teams evaluate quarterbacks is inherently flawed, or quarterbacks really only flourish and develop in quality situations.

I’m not sure what’s out there to show the Jets are either good enough at evaluating to break the trend of bad top of the draft evals if that’s the issue - particularly given the speculation that they’re going to stick with what draft media would do which has tracked with teams in the past with bad results. And I don’t see what about the Jets offensively - fully conceding they’re not as bad as most fans suggest - are good enough to help bring along a young quarterback as he develops. I think best case you’re looking at a league average line and bottom third groups of pass catchers and running backs. It’s better than what they’ve had but by no means good - and using the second pick on a guy utilizes a ton of capital.

Plus that team is going to be coming together entirely on the fly - new system, quarterback, and multiple other starters. Also think day two guards might start but otherwise you’re looking at 23 and 34 to add starters and there’s a non-trivial chance one of those picks is used on the defensive side of the ball.

Really the recent track record of quarterback picks is what concerns me and I really don’t see the Jets breaking that trend. If they take a quarterback and he works out nobody will be happier than me that I was wrong.

[HighPitch]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Dude 

This time 2 months ago you predicted they'd use all the cap space to sign thuney and linsley and Arob 

Here's the real deal: they have 1 good lineman and the rest of the line sucks. A 2nd Rd guard is not going to change this 

They have garbage wide outs and that's before they cutting Crowder. Corey Davis is a 2 we are expecting to be a 1. The rb and tight ends are atrocious. 

The defense is an absolute wasteland at olb and cb. They are going to use at least half theirs picks switching to the 4-3 

This team is not getting significantly better before the season. This is the team. 

If they draft a wilson at the 2 spot, he's going to be expected to start week 1 and he's going to be creamed 

 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, HighPitch said:

 

People hated nostradamus too probably 

The truth hurts 

This roster is still stank awful. That's the situation

It's almost unfair to wilson or any rookie qb to trot him out there week 1

[playtowinthegame]

15 minutes ago, bitonti said:

People hated nostradamus too probably 

The truth hurts 

This roster is still stank awful. That's the situation

It's almost unfair to wilson or any rookie qb to trot him out there week 1

[Dcat]

15 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

Maybe SF already decided on Fields and doesn't want to tip their hand by attending the workout. Maybe they are still concerned about someone trading with the Jets and getting the guy they really want and they have Fields rated ahead of Wilson

Maybe they don't want the Jets to know how much they love Fields so we don't pick him

They did NOT trade away the new few years on a guy who was a mid 1st rounder a few weeks ago and looked poor at his own scripted pro-day.

Sent from the Suicide Watch desk.


 

I'm thinking they want Fields, but at 3 still have the option to change their mind if Wilson falls?  

[Dcat]

15 hours ago, Stark said:

Just need someone to start the “ he only was clocked throwing 49mph”

and we will have come full circle 

You just had to mention it.  I was sucked in by those 49mph posts back then.  Embarrassing.  I won't get sucked in again like that.  

[Larz]

Can someone please “executive bullet point “ this for me ?

how did he throw? 
 

did he have a SHEESH! moment?

txs

[Dcat]

12 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Respect.

 

 we have seen that being a NY Jet can SHATTER the confidence of any aspiring QB through the years.  QB self-confidence has been ruined by this cursed team with every QB here since Testaverde (excluding favre, who really didn't care anyway).  

[RedBeardedSavage]

9 minutes ago, Dcat said:

 we have seen that being a NY Jet can SHATTER the confidence of any aspiring QB through the years.  QB self-confidence has been ruined by this cursed team with every QB here since Testaverde (excluding favre, who really didn't care anyway).  

Neither Fields nor Wilson = Mark Sanchez level of boogie boarder. 

Both have a bit of swagger/ego that will help them in the NFL.

But watching that interview, I just came away impressed with Fields. Easy guy to root for.

Still think he doesn't see the field well. Still think his good is amazing / his bad is really bad.

Regardless, Fields is a good kid and deserves respect. 

[JetBlue]

19 hours ago, genot said:

Fields is from Georgia. Ryan will be 36 yrs old when the season starts. Lets not count our chickens before they hatch.

It makes perfect sense for them them to select a quarterback.  I think Lance makes the most sense that way he could sit for a year and learn behind Ryan.   However if Fields is there, I bet the run up to the podium to select him.   

[Beerfish]

The Falcons are also in prime trade down territory.

[HighPitch]

44 minutes ago, bitonti said:

People hated nostradamus too probably 

The truth hurts 

This roster is still stank awful. That's the situation

It's almost unfair to wilson or any rookie qb to trot him out there week 1

dude they can draft wilson, eitienne, wyatt davis, radunz and add in real coaching (hopefully) and they are going to be a different team offensively. They next year draft more. suddenly you have a better than avg line, a good run game and a real qb 

 

Its not that bleak

[bitonti]

41 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

dude they can draft wilson, eitienne, wyatt davis, radunz and add in real coaching (hopefully) and they are going to be a different team offensively. They next year draft more. suddenly you have a better than avg line, a good run game and a real qb 

 

Its not that bleak

The only draft pick that moves the needle this year is the one they are using on wilson 

Last year they had 9 draft picks only Becton and the punter were worth a damn. The draft is for the pipeline. Only truly bad teams expect the draft to solve immediate problems 

 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

You just had to mention it.  I was sucked in by those 49mph posts back then.  Embarrassing.  I won't get sucked in again like that.  

Dude Watson is facing 20 lawsuits 

Everyone who was bearish on Watson was proven correct 

The reason why is not important 

[HighPitch]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The only draft pick that moves the needle this year is the one they are using on wilson 

Last year they had 9 draft picks only Becton and the punter were worth a damn. The draft is for the pipeline. Only truly bad teams expect the draft to solve immediate problems 

 

so what youre saying is the draft is ineffective and the jets will always stink no matter what

[Tranquilo]

14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The only draft pick that moves the needle this year is the one they are using on wilson 

Last year they had 9 draft picks only Becton and the punter were worth a damn. The draft is for the pipeline. Only truly bad teams expect the draft to solve immediate problems 

 

So why trade down? For more picks that don’t move the needle? 

[legler82]

17 hours ago, legler82 said:

I think Wilson predetermines a lot of his throws & his eye manipulation makes it looks like he’s going through reads but I’m no Phil Simms.

This guy elaborates on what I’m talking about.

 

[Dcat]

20 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Dude Watson is facing 20 lawsuits 

Everyone who was bearish on Watson was proven correct 

The reason why is not important 

ex post facto reasoning?  Really?  I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Anyway, I initially really wanted Watson ahead of Trubisky and Mahomes too, then was later sucked into the 49mph arm strength stuff.  Pretty dumb. Wrong reason to be bearish on him.  Reasons matter.

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

You do know NW had one of the best defenses in the NCAA last season, in addition Pat Fitzgerald drew up a game plan specifically to take Fields away.  They focused so much on stopping the QB they let Trey Sermon rush for 330 yards. But I guess when you don't play cupcakes like BYU you can't be considered good.  

Also take into account that these are still Kids. You don’t wake up and automatically know how to beat every defensive scheme. It’s experience. Trial and error. 

I’ve never seen anything like this, with Fields. It’s completely lunacy; the fabricated concerns 

[Dcat]

8 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Also take into account that these are still Kids. You don’t wake up and automatically know how to beat every defensive scheme. It’s experience. Trial and error. 

I’ve never seen anything like this, with Fields. It’s completely lunacy; the fabricated concerns 

49ers will love him ?

I think they moved up before his pro day because they knew how well he would do.  Now they know that they have one of Wilson or Fields no matter what the Jets or any other teams do...  I just can't see it for Jones.  Similar to Mac being happy knowing he was getting one of Mayfield, Allen, Rosen or Darnold by moving to 3 from 6. 

[legler82]

2 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

You do know NW had one of the best defenses in the NCAA last season, in addition Pat Fitzgerald drew up a game plan specifically to take Fields away.  They focused so much on stopping the QB they let Trey Sermon rush for 330 yards. But I guess when you don't play cupcakes like BYU you can't be considered good.  

The scheme to take OSU’s passing offense away and invite the run. It wasn’t specific to Fields. They felt that was their only chance to be competitive and they were right. Parcels did something similar in the Super Bowl XXV against the explosive Bills offense. Rex kind of did the same thing in the playoffs against the Patriots in 2010.  OSU took what they were giving them rather than force the passing game against coverage.

[bitonti]

56 minutes ago, Dcat said:

ex post facto reasoning?  Really?  I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Anyway, I initially really wanted Watson ahead of Trubisky and Mahomes too, then was later sucked into the 49mph arm strength stuff.  Pretty dumb. Wrong reason to be bearish on him.  Reasons matter.

it's more like getting the math question correct despite not showing your work

the human subconscious aka gut instinct is an unlikely but often accurate source of quick decisions 

it's like some Malcolm Gladwell "Blink" stuff 

think long think wrong 

reasons do matter but the first impression is usually the correct one. Given enough time, and motivation, people have a wonderful ability to be able to talk ourselves into almost anything 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, HighPitch said:

so what youre saying is the draft is ineffective and the jets will always stink no matter what

there is a road for the Jets to be decent and one day maybe even good but they need to stop making short term "hope-based" decisions 

yes we hope Zach Wilson or Justin Fields will be good 

We KNOW Sewell, Chase, Pitts, D Smith etc ARE going to be good.

the Jets should stop hoping for a 1 year miracle turnaround and build a program  

hope is like the lesson of Shawshank - at the end Red gets hope etc

but i prefer act 1 Red's take on it 

[HighPitch]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

there is a road for the Jets to be decent and one day maybe even good but they need to stop making short term "hope-based" decisions 

yes we hope Zach Wilson or Justin Fields will be good 

We KNOW Sewell, Chase, Pitts, D Smith etc ARE going to be good.

the Jets should stop hoping for a 1 year miracle turnaround and build a program  

hope is like the lesson of Shawshank - at the end Red gets hope etc

but i prefer act 1 Red's take on it 

Nobody "knows" anything for real. 

Any of those mentioned can bust big time.

Most fans agree that a good QB is priority

You make a lot of assumptions.

You quote lots of movies as well.

I dont think the jets are looking for a "fast" turnaround. They are trying to get better. Who said they are trying to get great in 1 year? Its a process

 

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Nobody "knows" anything for real. 

Any of those mentioned can bust big time.

Most fans agree that a good QB is priority

You make a lot of assumptions.

You quote lots of movies as well.

I dont think the jets are looking for a "fast" turnaround. They are trying to get better. Who said they are trying to get great in 1 year? Its a process

 There's a difference between a Kyle Pitts and Zach Wilson type of prospect. One is a blue chip the other is a red chip pushed up to blue chip prices due to positional scarcity aka supply and demand

yes QBs are important but most teams don't solve their QB problems with 2 overall or even 1 overall 

Jared Goff isn't winning the super bowl from 1 overall and neither is Matt Stafford. Cam Newton came close. Luck was the perfect 1 overall QB and was beaten up so badly he retired before 30, ring-less. 

those teams that are bad enough to pick the 1 and 2 QBs don't have the roster to support these players. It was a model that worked in the Aikman/Manning eras.

to take a QB at 2 overall is expecting an awful lot of that pick. He's not going to get to sit like Aaron Rodgers or Mahomes the players he's compared to most often. 

it's not that Zach Wilson is bad. Or Baker Mayfield or Kyler Murray.  They are good. It's just unfair to ask any QB to turn around a franchise that won 2 wins the year prior. History proves, more often than not, that guy gets beat up and traded to Detroit. 

 

 

[JetBlue]

16 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

That was sarcasm. 

Sorry, my bad. 

[varjet]

Whether Fields or Wilson will be good is dependent really on the team they join, the support they get, and if they get hurt.

RGIII looked great until he got hurt.  Oh...who was his coach?  

The 49ers are brilliant, because they will pick one of two QBs who will be good for them.  They will adapt a scheme for either player, and have the OL to protect Wilson.

I see no reason why Fields can't be as good as RgIII when good, Newton or Allen, remembering that it took awhile for the Jets to get going.

Although maybe it is too risky, if I am JD I am taking Fields.  I think his "floor" is lower-not necessarily as a player, but overall.  I just see Wilson cracking, in NY, in the NFL, physically.  I see Fields as being more resillient, mentally and physically.  4.44, 6-3, 228, throws a mile.  Take that and build a team around.  

Just my two cents.

[JetBlue]

13 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

When the jets won a game was still happy with it because it meant Fields would be our future. Out of nowhere came the wilson hype train. I still don't get it and I somewhat chalk it up to a covid off-season.  A lot of great posts have already mentioned why I agree the pick should be fields. 

Fields as a young player will be able to score points with the added dimension of being a runner, extending plays, while developing as a thrower. Will be the best athlete on our offense. Will be a huge plus in 2 minute and 4 minute offenses when we have a lead.

Prepped for disappointment but still a sliver if hope its fields. 

No you can chalk it up to a talented young quarterback putting it all together in his junior year and have a monster season.  There is nothing shocking here; it happens all the time.   Most recent example was just last season with Burrow.   Wilson is also a very elusive runner so that advantage is not a great as you think, he also a better passer on the run the fields, has faster release, processes information faster and has the knack for throwing his receivers open.   None of this is a knock on Fields but if you really don't understand why Wilson my have leapfrogged him in draft rankings, you are letting your bias get the better of you.   

[JetBlue]

2 minutes ago, varjet said:

Whether Fields or Wilson will be good is dependent really on the team they join, the support they get, and if they get hurt.

RGIII looked great until he got hurt.  Oh...who was his coach?  

The 49ers are brilliant, because they will pick one of two QBs who will be good for them.  They will adapt a scheme for either player, and have the OL to protect Wilson.

I see no reason why Fields can't be as good as RgIII when good, Newton or Allen, remembering that it took awhile for the Jets to get going.

Although maybe it is too risky, if I am JD I am taking Fields.  I think his "floor" is lower-not necessarily as a player, but overall.  I just see Wilson cracking, in NY, in the NFL, physically.  I see Fields as being more resillient, mentally and physically.  4.44, 6-3, 228, throws a mile.  Take that and build a team around.  

Just my two cents.

Why do you see Wilson cracking mentally in NY?  Or Physically?  He is bigger than Mayfield or Murray and about the same size as Rodgers.   Why is Fields more resilient mentally?   The both can throw the ball a mile so I don't see the difference there as well and Wilson has shown to be incredibly accurate.    I don't think you have really looked film on Wilson.  There is a reason he is being considered for 2 or 3.   

[56mehl56]

55 minutes ago, legler82 said:

The scheme to take OSU’s passing offense away and invite the run. It wasn’t specific to Fields. They felt that was their only chance to be competitive and they were right. Parcels did something similar in the Super Bowl XXV against the explosive Bills offense. Rex kind of did the same thing in the playoffs against the Patriots in 2010.  OSU took what they were giving them rather than force the passing game against coverage.

So the scheme was to take the passing game away - in a broad sense how was that not specific to Fields  ?  They didn't want OSU passing against them and Fields was the QB . 

[HighPitch]

11 minutes ago, bitonti said:

 There's a difference between a Kyle Pitts and Zach Wilson type of prospect. One is a blue chip the other is a red chip pushed up to blue chip prices due to positional scarcity aka supply and demand

yes QBs are important but most teams don't solve their QB problems with 2 overall or even 1 overall 

Jared Goff isn't winning the super bowl from 1 overall and neither is Matt Stafford. Cam Newton came close. Luck was the perfect 1 overall QB and was beaten up so badly he retired before 30, ring-less. 

those teams that are bad enough to pick the 1 and 2 QBs don't have the roster to support these players. It was a model that worked in the Aikman/Manning eras.

to take a QB at 2 overall is expecting an awful lot of that pick. He's not going to get to sit like Aaron Rodgers or Mahomes the players he's compared to most often. 

it's not that Zach Wilson is bad. Or Baker Mayfield or Kyler Murray.  They are good. It's just unfair to ask any QB to turn around a franchise that won 2 wins the year prior. History proves, more often than not, that guy gets beat up and traded to Detroit. 

 

 

Nope youre wrong. There is a STRONG correlation between successful Qbs and when they are drafted.

Tom brady is the exception, not the rule. 
 

Youre here now at pick 2. You grab a qb. Thats it. You can argue from your hoboken dining room all you like but the pros and execs that actually make these decisions are taking a qb. Expect 5 qbs in the first dozen picks. Not sure why you are going against this.

Heres some data about SB qbs vs draft position. The numbers arent skewed. 1/1 pops up quite a bit. No matter what the vast majority are in the 1st. 
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/superbowl_quarterbacks/

 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Nope youre wrong. There is a STRONG correlation between successful Qbs and when they are drafted.

Tom brady is the exception, not the rule. 
 

Youre here now at pick 2. You grab a qb. Thats it. You can argue from your hoboken dining room all you like but the pros and execs that actually make these decisions are taking a qb. Expect 5 qbs in the first dozen picks. Not sure why you are going against this.

Heres some data about SB qbs vs draft position. The numbers arent skewed. 1/1 pops up quite a bit. No matter what the vast majority are in the 1st. 
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/superbowl_quarterbacks/

 

the numbers are skewed by the Mannings. Zach Wilson has many great attributes, as does Justin Fields, neither is the son of a Pro Bowl QB from the 70's. 

the CBA favors teams that have a super Bowl window opening to draft a QB to keep expenses low . the 5th year option encourages them to do it in rd 1 like Tim Tebow 

the Jets still have low expenses, even post FA, low talent level, each side of the football learning new systems, and their super Bowl "window" doesn't exist 

it's not that i'm against all teams doing it - this team doing it in this draft will end poorly for all involved. they just aren't ready to think about a Super Bowl