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Justin Fields Pro Day 3/30 (for those still holding on)


Paradis
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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The Chiefs lost because they had all 5 of their OL men below with below average starters, after losing their second starting tackle in the championship game. I use them as an example because they're the norm rather than the exception. There's this myth that every good/championship team is using nothing but 1st rounders and mega-priced FAs on its line. Baseless and preposterous aren't even strong enough words to describe that.

You can keep moving the goalposts with your "arguments" all you want. The fact is they won a SB with 3/5 below-average OL starters, went to another SB with 4/5 below-average OL starters, and if Wilson sucks it'll be because he sucks not because omg omg this is the worstest offensive line eva. 

It's also convenient to note that neither Kelce nor Smith were high picks. They used two 1s on Mahomes and before that used 2 2s on Alex Smith. 

The real answer is Douglas has to hit on more than just 1st rounders or mega-priced FAs. If he can find a wow player or two in the mid rounds over a few year span it'll go a long way. If he's Maccagnan Part II where the only drafted above-average (or really, even average) starters of his come from round 1, then none of this matters anyway. 

Man.... the amount of wasted energy here between you two. 

what would your wife say if she saw all this 

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8 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

In a perfect world Pitts and Chase knock down Sewell to 8 and the Jets package Darnold/23 and a mid rounder to move up. If he's anywhere near 8-10 they have to capitalize. 

I'd be thrilled if they could swing that. I'm just not ok with taking one of them instead of a QB, and going with another year of Darnold with the idea that another tackle or a TE is going to suddenly make the #30-whatever ranked QB into the top 5 passer he was drafted to be.

I think it'd be unlikely, though. More likely they'd have to pair #34 with #23, not a Darnold pick, since the latter looks like it'll be too low for that to happen even with a mid-rounder like 86/107. Since I'm not relying on the Darnold pick to be anything other than a 50/50 bust or a 6th - and frankly unneeded - pick by the end of day 2, yeah it'd be almost like getting Sewell at #23. All for that.

Crazy that we spent three 2nd rounders to move up 3 slots to end up with Darnold, and after just 3 seasons we'd be happy to get just one 2nd rounder in return, and may not ultimately get even what Arizona got for Rosen. J! or something.

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15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'd be thrilled if they could swing that. I'm just not ok with taking one of them instead of a QB, and going with another year of Darnold with the idea that another tackle or a TE is going to suddenly make the #30-whatever ranked QB into the top 5 passer he was drafted to be.

I think it'd be unlikely, though. More likely they'd have to pair #34 with #23, not a Darnold pick, since the latter looks like it'll be too low for that to happen even with a mid-rounder like 86/107. Since I'm not relying on the Darnold pick to be anything other than a 50/50 bust or a 6th - and frankly unneeded - pick by the end of day 2, yeah it'd be almost like getting Sewell at #23. All for that.

Crazy that we spent three 2nd rounders to move up 3 slots to end up with Darnold, and after just 3 seasons we'd be happy to get just one 2nd rounder in return, and may not ultimately get even what Arizona got for Rosen. J! or something.

I'm completely spitballing on specifics, for me it's whatever it takes. They'll take Wilson at 2, but the Jets should do what they have to do to get back into the top ten. The top 4 non-QB's in this draft are really special prospects and there is a huge drop-off after that, which is somewhat normal except you generally don't get that caliber guy at 6-10, and the Jets are in the best position to take advantage of that. It's absolutely worth trading 23/34 and something else (i.e. next year's Seattle pick) to get back into 6-10. Do the math: If two out of SF/Atl/Mia take a QB, that means at least one of Chase/Sewell/Pitts/Smith will fall to 7 or 8 and the Jets have to jump on that because they need studs and more importantly they have the resources to do it and still have a strong draft in the mid rounds. One Sewell or Chase is worth more to the team than 2-3 average starters.

 

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm the last one here you'd need to apologize to for a lack of brevity. Never mind I don't think it's an apology-requiring offense in the first place ;). Maybe those who use fewer words only know a few. I tell myself that & it keeps me warm at night.

I think there was a push to go with outside zone last year, with 4 new faces starting and limited preseason, and then the stupid idea that Bell or Gore or a rookie RB with 4.6-4.7 speed could turn the corner (or even reach it ffs), so we were treated to another year of plodding up the gut instead, which didn't gain yards but each time at least gave the defense one less minute of being on the field lol.

Here's the thing with the QBs: except for going all the way back to Andrew Luck, and maybe you'd go back to Eli before him, they all have red flags entering the draft. Some more than others, no doubt, but there are no flawless prospects. They either have flaws in their game, some alarming statistic(s), didn't play against good enough competition, played with too-good teammates, and/or a combination of them. That doesn't therefore make them all the same, though. I think a lot of it stems from overanalysis of some overblown combine stuff that doesn't matter anyway.

So IMO just pick one whose film you like best & whose red flags worry you the least compared to others. If he stinks like Darnold then find out sooner rather than later and try again by drafting another one, unless there's a Tampa/Brady-like veteran opportunity. But I wouldn't compromise on the position unless the judgment is truly that they're all equal. The other problem is there's no way to know, absent hindsight, how low you can trade down and still get one you like well enough.

It's true some of the QBs who get drafted later do better than some drafted earlier, but there's no rule like that. It goes without saying that it's easier to break out on a good team than a bad one, but I think exceptions just stick out, and there's no proof-positive of chicken & egg as to which must come first to make a team good in the first place. 

I really don't think it'll be the necessary hardship as people think.

I can dig it up from another thread but I took a look going back like fifteen years - I think the information basically suggested that taking a quarterback in the 6-15 range is pretty much as likely to pan out as a guy in the top five, if not more likely.

It’s not so much the exceptions sticking out. Most if not all of the best quarterbacks in the league were drafted outside the top five and outplayed guys drafted before them. Rodgers, Mahomes, Watson (off field aside) - more recently Allen, Jackson, and Herbert being the best quarterbacks in their classes early despite guys being drafted after them.

I don’t think there’s *really* a right or wrong. Your pick your favorite guy and just take him is fine. I guess my perspective is more that these guys going at the top of the draft are really all similar and all have comparable odds of success. Rather than pretend the teams know who will pan out, which I don’t really think they do, I think it’s smarter, a better use of assets, and more effective for team building to take additional capital and the remaining quarterback. But like I said I don’t think its really a right or wrong.

I do still need to dig into the roster and contracts and see how I think Douglas is going to attac the draft, too. I think it’ll give me a better feel for how many picks he may use.

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2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I'm completely spitballing on specifics, for me it's whatever it takes. They'll take Wilson at 2, but the Jets should do what they have to do to get back into the top ten. The top 4 non-QB's in this draft are really special prospects and there is a huge drop-off after that, which is somewhat normal except you generally don't get that caliber guy at 6-10, and the Jets are in the best position to take advantage of that. It's absolutely worth trading 23/34 and something else (i.e. next year's Seattle pick) to get back into 6-10. Do the math: If two out of SF/Atl/Mia take a QB, that means at least one of Chase/Sewell/Pitts/Smith will fall to 7 or 8 and the Jets have to jump on that because they need studs and more importantly they have the resources to do it and still have a strong draft in the mid rounds. One Sewell or Chase is worth more to the team than 2-3 average starters.

 

Agreed. I'd be all in on an aggressive trade up for a blue chip prospect on offense to compliment Wilson. I'd prefer Chase, Smith, or Pitts to Sewell. 

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5 hours ago, Paradis said:

He’s really hitting on zach’s propensity to play hero ball... which was the earliest of criticisms/concerns. I don’t know about coaching quarterbacks to comment on what level of concern comes with this. 

Boom, problem solved: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/28/jets-play-red-light-green-light-with-sanchez/

"Described as a simple red-yellow-green system, the color codes will tell Sanchez he needs to be cautious (red) or aggressive (green) or somewhere in between (yellow) on each pass play."

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11 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Boom, problem solved: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/28/jets-play-red-light-green-light-with-sanchez/

"Described as a simple red-yellow-green system, the color codes will tell Sanchez he needs to be cautious (red) or aggressive (green) or somewhere in between (yellow) on each pass play."

Two

AFC

Championship

Games 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, varjet said:

Two

AFC

Championship

Games

Strong D and running took them far those years. How'd it work out after that when those elements weren't propping him up? At worst his success lends credence to the red light green light game and as I said "problem solved" with regard to Wilson and his propensity for hero ball.

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3 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Strong D and running took them far those years. How'd it work out after that when those elements weren't propping him up?

The jets have done a good job of building a team twice in 30 years.  Both times we focused heavy and hard on offensive line

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1 hour ago, RogerVick1980 said:

Some of these media people are acting like this rumor that Fields isn’t a great leader or doesn’t have a great work ethic is the greatest crime against humanity.

Unproven negative  rumors about players before the draft has been happening for 50 years calm down lol.

I'm just wondering what the narrative here would be if those unproven negative rumors were about Zach Wilson . 

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1 hour ago, RogerVick1980 said:

Some of these media people are acting like this rumor that Fields isn’t a great leader or doesn’t have a great work ethic is the greatest crime against humanity.

Unproven negative  rumors about players before the draft has been happening for 50 years calm down lol.

As much as I dislike Fields there’s a way better chance he doesn’t bust than Zach “The Egg”

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9 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I'm just wondering what the narrative here would be if those unproven negative rumors were about Zach Wilson . 

Let’s be honest everyone already has their  mind made up so if their guy gets negative pub they’ll deny if it’s a player they don’t want they’ll buy it lol everyone’s biased to some degree.

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24 minutes ago, Lith said:

More from Orlovsky on Fields work ethic.  Backing off a bit from his comments yesterday,

Can’t believe the Mob came for him..

as I said these rumors come out pre draft every year nobody says a thing but for whatever reason people want blood for these Field rumors lol 

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19 hours ago, RogerVick1980 said:

Can’t believe the Mob came for him..

as I said these rumors come out pre draft every year nobody says a thing but for whatever reason people want blood for these Field rumors lol 

Look what's going on in this country.......I'm shocked he didn't get fired.

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