Trade out vs draft Wilson - age poll

[Jet_Engine1]

I'll be 50 4 months from today...and I actually had to put a lot of thought into this because I've just been hedging for the last few months.

 

Honestly, I want to trade down and build a team. We have Darnold for another year, and let's talk about the kid honestly and objectively for a moment...

 

1. Darnold as a prospect was superior to everyone in this draft not named Trevor. Athletic, strong, tough, arm strength, etc. As a PROSPECT, was considered #1 overall up to the second the Browns shockingly picked Mayfield.  He was much more highly regarded than Fields, Wilson, and the others. 

 

2. Played and won at the Power 5 level, against upper tier competition,  but was NOT surrounded by great talent. Darnold pretty much carried 2 meh USC teams on his back. He didn't dominate against competition marginally above South Florida elite HS level (Wilson, Lance), and he was not surrounded by a myriad of 1st rounders (Fields, Lawrence). Kid was a baller against equal to better teams, winning with guys that are largely NFL PS players at best.

 

3. He is still just 23 years old. Still super young. And while he's had a tough road in the NFL so far, he's going into his 4th NFL season, not coming off playing Eastern Carolina or Boise State. 

 

4. The kid is tough as nails. Yeah, he's missed time (Mono was bad luck, not injury) but he has taken some massive hits and gotten back up. He has trucked NFL LBs and Safeties on  multiple occasions. He's a tough kid on the field. And he's been a pro off of it. 

 

5. He has played with absolute garbage around him. Centers that can't snap. Guards that are literal turnstiles.  Before Becton and Fant, slow, unathletic Tackles. Old men and worse than jags at RB. A receiver Corp made of guys nobody ever heard of...Braxton Berrios and a dude named Jeff Smith have played significant snaps as starting WRs. Trash. When he's not running for his life, he's throwing to PS level receivers (and Crowder, who is a solid pro). Robby Anderson, an UDFA, was the best receiver he's ever played with.  That's sad.

 

6. Disastrous Coaching. Bowles. Gase. Loggains. Seriously.  Has ANY QB ever come into the league with less support and less help from a Coaching staff? Pathetic. 

 

7. Investment. I'm the first person to say Never reinforce failure, but Sam cost us 4 picks  and that investment was NEVER SUPPORTED. The next pick after the newly drafted "FQB", for a team with a poor O line and no "weapons" was....25 year old DT Nathan Sheppard.  Really? The team paid a LOT for Sam, because he was seen as being THAT VALUABLE. Then they failed to actually value that investment. Its time to treat that commodity in the correct way. 

 

So yeah,  I was down on Darnold after the season, but in retrospect and after thought, I think the smart move is building around a kid that 3 years ago was much more highly regarded than the this years prospects not named Trevor Lawrence.  

 

And for all of us smitten with Wilson after the scripted "throwing session" inside a building, with no defenders on the field, here is Sam making many of those same high level throws...while running for his life behind a trash o line, in a garbage offense, throw to PS scrubs (and Crowder).

 

[Beaver]

This thread is going to lead to nothing but Metamucil advertisements on this board.  Bunch of dusty old farts around here.  

[RedBeardedSavage]

21 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I'll be 50 4 months from today...and I actually had to put a lot of thought into this because I've just been hedging for the last few months.

 

Honestly, I want to trade down and build a team. We have Darnold for another year, and let's talk about the kid honestly and objectively for a moment...

 

1. Darnold as a prospect was superior to everyone in this draft not named Trevor. Athletic, strong, tough, arm strength, etc. As a PROSPECT, was considered #1 overall up to the second the Browns shockingly picked Mayfield.  He was much more highly regarded than Fields, Wilson, and the others. 

 

2. Played and won at the Power 5 level, against upper tier competition,  but was NOT surrounded by great talent. Darnold pretty much carried 2 meh USC teams on his back. He didn't dominate against competition marginally above South Florida elite HS level (Wilson, Lance), and he was not surrounded by a myriad of 1st rounders (Fields, Lawrence). Kid was a baller against equal to better teams, winning with guys that are largely NFL PS players at best.

 

3. He is still just 23 years old. Still super young. And while he's had a tough road in the NFL so far, he's going into his 4th NFL season, not coming off playing Eastern Carolina or Boise State. 

 

4. The kid is tough as nails. Yeah, he's missed time (Mono was bad luck, not injury) but he has taken some massive hits and gotten back up. He has trucked NFL LBs and Safeties on  multiple occasions. He's a tough kid on the field. And he's been a pro off of it. 

 

5. He has played with absolute garbage around him. Centers that can't snap. Guards that are literal turnstiles.  Before Becton and Fant, slow, unathletic Tackles. Old men and worse than jags at RB. A receiver Corp made of guys nobody ever heard of...Braxton Berrios and a dude named Jeff Smith have played significant snaps as starting WRs. Trash. When he's not running for his life, he's throwing to PS level receivers (and Crowder, who is a solid pro). Robby Anderson, an UDFA, was the best receiver he's ever played with.  That's sad.

 

6. Disastrous Coaching. Bowles. Gase. Loggains. Seriously.  Has ANY QB ever come into the league with less support and less help from a Coaching staff? Pathetic. 

 

7. Investment. I'm the first person to say Never reinforce failure, but Sam cost us 4 picks  and that investment was NEVER SUPPORTED. The next pick after the newly drafted "FQB", for a team with a poor O line and no "weapons" was....25 year old DT Nathan Sheppard.  Really? The team paid a LOT for Sam, because he was seen as being THAT VALUABLE. Then they failed to actually value that investment. Its time to treat that commodity in the correct way. 

 

So yeah,  I was down on Darnold after the season, but in retrospect and after thought, I think the smart move is building around a kid that 3 years ago was much more highly regarded than the this years prospects not named Trevor Lawrence.  

 

And for all of us smitten with Wilson after the scripted "throwing session" inside a building, with no defenders on the field, here is Sam making many of those same high level throws...while running for his life behind a trash o line, in a garbage offense, throw to PS scrubs (and Crowder).

 

I agree with all of this. Organizationally, the Jets failed Sam and I think that's more the reason for his play than his own faults (although that doesn't excuse all of them).

But with all that said, I still think we should take Wilson. I think it's better to start over from a financial standpoint, from a 'new regime fresh start' standpoint and because I've come to believe in Wilson as a prospect after my initial skepticism.

I wouldn't be upset if someone makes us an RGIII offer for pick 2 and we accepted. If I'm Douglas, I'm letting the league know that I'm taking New Zach City unless someone blows me away with an offer. 

[PS17]

3 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

I joined this board in 2013 when I was 16 or 17.
 

I’ll be 25 years old tomorrow. I feel like I’ve known some of these guys my whole life?

Happy birthday buddy! I got here in 08, so I’ve quite literally spent half my life on JetNation. 

[riggy001]

57, draft wilson, which is what they are going to do.

[sourceworx]

I only want to trade the pick for Deshaun Watson. Otherwise draft a QB at 2.

I'm 42. I'm sick of waiting for the latest Jets bust to pan out.

[Jet_Engine1]

27 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I agree with all of this. Organizationally, the Jets failed Sam and I think that's more the reason for his play than his own faults (although that doesn't excuse all of them).

But with all that said, I still think we should take Wilson. I think it's better to start over from a financial standpoint, from a 'new regime fresh start' standpoint and because I've come to believe in Wilson as a prospect after my initial skepticism.

I wouldn't be upset if someone makes us an RGIII offer for pick 2 and we accepted. If I'm Douglas, I'm letting the league know that I'm taking New Zach City unless someone blows me away with an offer. 

I'm so torn on this. Everything you say about contract etc. and new starts I agree with 100%. But watching Sam take the hits he's taken, and taking on defenders down field is not only admirable toughness, but I think Wilson would be broken in half. lol.

 

I don't trust Fields. He's got all of the physical talent, but I honestly think he's mentally soft and his introversion  doesn't work well in the NFL. I see a guy like him folding like a cheap suit in the NFL, especially the NY market. 

 

I just hope it all works out,  no matter who winds up under center in September. 

 

But this team did Sam Dirty as hell, and I hope he goes on to have a good career, here or elsewhere.

[Icer]

16 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I’ve been watching this team break my heart since 1996 and I think it’s completely insane that a lot of people don’t want to draft another QB. 
 

(mid 30s)

[peebag]

The Jets have fans?

[skipper]

41+. As a matter of fact I am exactly twice the 41. When I started watching pro ball in college in the late fifties (yes 1950ies) I rooted for the Giants because they were the only game in town. The Titans were a fun addition and when they became the Jets and got Broadway Joe I began rooting for the underdog.

I was for trading down and building the team, though now that I see that they didn't even discuss a trade with the 49ers I realize that they are serious about starting fresh and are most likely to draft a QB. I am developing trust in the FO and can go either way. I'm an optimist (at my age you are either an optimist or seriously contemplating tall buildings)

[PS17]

17 hours ago, extmenace said:

I’m curious. It seems almost split between the draft a QB crowd and the trade out crowd. I’m curious if this split has anything to do with how long you’ve been following the team. How old are you and what side of the fence are you on?

Fitting that the OP is in Reader’s Digest font.

[PCP63]

17 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I’ve been watching this team break my heart since 1996 and I think it’s completely insane that a lot of people don’t want to draft another QB. 
 

(mid 30s)

Depends on whether you think Wilson can be the guy. Personally, I hope the analysts are right, but I'm no analyst myself, so the hell if I know. That said, if Joe doesn't believe he's the guy, it would be stupid not to trade the pick. Or, honestly, I wonder how all this Watson stuff will shake out. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

16 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I'm so torn on this. Everything you say about contract etc. and new starts I agree with 100%. But watching Sam take the hits he's taken, and taking on defenders down field is not only admirable toughness, but I think Wilson would be broken in half. lol.

 

I don't trust Fields. He's got all of the physical talent, but I honestly think he's mentally soft and his introversion  doesn't work well in the NFL. I see a guy like him folding like a cheap suit in the NFL, especially the NY market. 

I agree that Sam is tougher and more physically robust than Wilson. And this may be naive of me, but I think the next guy here won't have to take so many hits. Granted, it's a fair criticism of Wilson. Maybe a decade ago I might've balked at Wilson for that reason, but in today's NFL, quarterbacks get hit far less. And I'm happy if the coaching staff tells Wilson 'be like Brady, don't take the hit, even if they call you a p***y'.

My beef with Fields is his decision-making and his accuracy. Dudes can cite the stats on his "accuracy percentages", but it's the ball placement that I worry about. That big throw early in the game down the sideline to Wilson (or maybe Olave) against Clemson that everyone was raving about should've been a surefire touchdown but the guy had to dive for it. He's shown that he can make really incredible throws, but his consistency throw to throw is not there. 

Granted, he could improve like Josh Allen. I don't think that's unrealistic. But right now, Zach Wilson is far more consistently accurate with placement.

And then there's the decision-making. I don't buy the 'he only throws to first reads', but you watch that Indiana game or Northwestern game and I can't understand what he was thinking on some plays and there are some true panic moments that lead to terrible mistakes.

Quote

But this team did Sam Dirty as hell, and I hope he goes on to have a good career, here or elsewhere.

Definitely agree on this. He's a good kid and we absolutely did him dirty. I also hope he ends up rebounding, whether here or somewhere else. 

[slimjasi]

16 minutes ago, PCP63 said:

Depends on whether you think Wilson can be the guy. Personally, I hope the analysts are right, but I'm no analyst myself, so the hell if I know. That said, if Joe doesn't believe he's the guy, it would be stupid not to trade the pick. Or, honestly, I wonder how all this Watson stuff will shake out. 

It's not just about Wilson. 

Tbh, Wilson isn't even my favorite option at 2. 

The reality is that none of us know what any of these QBs are going to be in the NFL. What we do know is that, after 38 starts, Sam hasn't shown anything more than occasional flashes and that just isn't enough to move forward with. 

So, if the Jets like one of these QBs, they should take him at 2. 

[Embrace the Suck]

17 hours ago, Jet Life said:

Just turned 30 this week and am just glad I still got to stay in that young bracket . Thanks for not making it 20-29

[adobolo2]

1 hour ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I'll be 50 4 months from today...and I actually had to put a lot of thought into this because I've just been hedging for the last few months.

 

Honestly, I want to trade down and build a team. We have Darnold for another year, and let's talk about the kid honestly and objectively for a moment...

 

1. Darnold as a prospect was superior to everyone in this draft not named Trevor. Athletic, strong, tough, arm strength, etc. As a PROSPECT, was considered #1 overall up to the second the Browns shockingly picked Mayfield.  He was much more highly regarded than Fields, Wilson, and the others. 

 

2. Played and won at the Power 5 level, against upper tier competition,  but was NOT surrounded by great talent. Darnold pretty much carried 2 meh USC teams on his back. He didn't dominate against competition marginally above South Florida elite HS level (Wilson, Lance), and he was not surrounded by a myriad of 1st rounders (Fields, Lawrence). Kid was a baller against equal to better teams, winning with guys that are largely NFL PS players at best.

 

3. He is still just 23 years old. Still super young. And while he's had a tough road in the NFL so far, he's going into his 4th NFL season, not coming off playing Eastern Carolina or Boise State. 

 

4. The kid is tough as nails. Yeah, he's missed time (Mono was bad luck, not injury) but he has taken some massive hits and gotten back up. He has trucked NFL LBs and Safeties on  multiple occasions. He's a tough kid on the field. And he's been a pro off of it. 

 

5. He has played with absolute garbage around him. Centers that can't snap. Guards that are literal turnstiles.  Before Becton and Fant, slow, unathletic Tackles. Old men and worse than jags at RB. A receiver Corp made of guys nobody ever heard of...Braxton Berrios and a dude named Jeff Smith have played significant snaps as starting WRs. Trash. When he's not running for his life, he's throwing to PS level receivers (and Crowder, who is a solid pro). Robby Anderson, an UDFA, was the best receiver he's ever played with.  That's sad.

 

6. Disastrous Coaching. Bowles. Gase. Loggains. Seriously.  Has ANY QB ever come into the league with less support and less help from a Coaching staff? Pathetic. 

 

7. Investment. I'm the first person to say Never reinforce failure, but Sam cost us 4 picks  and that investment was NEVER SUPPORTED. The next pick after the newly drafted "FQB", for a team with a poor O line and no "weapons" was....25 year old DT Nathan Sheppard.  Really? The team paid a LOT for Sam, because he was seen as being THAT VALUABLE. Then they failed to actually value that investment. Its time to treat that commodity in the correct way. 

 

So yeah,  I was down on Darnold after the season, but in retrospect and after thought, I think the smart move is building around a kid that 3 years ago was much more highly regarded than the this years prospects not named Trevor Lawrence.  

 

And for all of us smitten with Wilson after the scripted "throwing session" inside a building, with no defenders on the field, here is Sam making many of those same high level throws...while running for his life behind a trash o line, in a garbage offense, throw to PS scrubs (and Crowder).

 

I 100% agree, we brought in the best coach available this cycle to train up our player's and get the best out of them and at 23 Sam is still very coachable and I will never buy the "he's broken" argument, he just needs support and the confidence of his coaches.

Now for the big argument that everyone uses when switching from Sam to a rookie QB and that's the "Reset the rookie contract for another 4 years" that's very valid in a one player bubble but if we keep Sam and trade down we will receive three firsts most likely, thats three rookie contracts for top players that we now don't have to get in free agency, if you are talking Tackel reciever and Corner those three free agents contracts combined  are worth north of 50m a year, while sam's contract will be in around 25m for the next three year.

[BROOKLYN JET]

Trade out, get Watson.

I'm 47