Justin Fields Confusion Thread

[derp]

I do think this stuff is very media driven, and especially this year when there’s no combine for that massive transfer of information it’s probably easier for teams to hide in the weeds on a guy. Think there will be many surprises this draft.

Also Fields has had a pretty low profile lately and I don’t think media wise Justin Fields buzz really would get much attention. Curious to see if he starts to tick up after today. Get a little “Justin Fields had an outstanding pro day and all of a sudden this is a harder choice for the *Jets, 49ers, Falcons* than it was a couple days ago.”

[k-met57]

2 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Fields avoids using his athleticism to a fault so I don’t even think of him and Lamar in the same light. Also like I said already; it’s never just one thing but multiple. Dual threat might be in the mix.

he had 500 yards rushing and 10 rushing TD's in his last full year. last year in half the games he had 5 TD's and 400 rushing yards.

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, section314 said:

That's why I found it very interesting last week as I was watching the Alabama Pro Day when the sideline reporter said he heard a group of scouts asking one another if they thought Mac Jones had reached his ceiling?

The questions have to be asked.  Did Jones help make Smith and Waddle?  Did Smith and Waddle help make Jones?  Did the rest of the team help make them all?  The challenge is that Smith and Waddle looked great last year under Tua, who hasn't looked like much.  But then so did Jeudy and Ruggs.  So was it the team/system/level of competition?

It's all very confusing.

[legler82]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I occasionally wonder what Aaron Rodgers career would have looked like if he had started right away, or even after just 1 year on the bench.  Would he have been closer to mortal.  Or would he have 3 more years of league-crushing stats putting him dangerously close to wiping out all of Brees/Brady's career records (regular season).  

I’m going for the high upside guy every time, that’s why I was a Mariota, Wentz, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert & now Fields guy. However, I know it’s easy for me to take that approach as I’m on my couch & my job is not on the line.

[section314]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

The questions have to be asked.  Did Jones help make Smith and Waddle?  Did Smith and Waddle help make Jones?  Did the rest of the team help make them all?  The challenge is that Smith and Waddle looked great last year under Tua, who hasn't looked like much.  But then so did Jeudy and Ruggs.  So was it the team/system/level of competition?

It's all very confusing.

The billion $ question. FWIW, I think Jones is way better than Tua. Alabama didn't miss a beat the year before when Tua went down, and they were better last year. But still, the question remains. remains.

[legler82]

4 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

he had 500 yards rushing and 10 rushing TD's in his last full year. last year in half the games he had 5 TD's and 400 rushing yards.

Lamar had 960, 1571 & 1601 respectively. So please explain to me how they are similar prospects outside of being black and fast?

[section314]

Just now, section314 said:

The billion $ question. FWIW, I think Jones is way better than Tua. Alabama didn't miss a beat the year before when Tua went down, and they were better last year. But still, the question remains.

 

[nycdan]

The cautionary note on Jones to me is this.

We all thought Terrell Davis was this amazing, one-of-a-kind running back.  Then Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson and Clinton Portis all followed and did great in that system.  Like really great.  So was it really Davis, or was it the system around him?  More accurately, how much of the success was due to each?  

When Tom Brady got injured, Matt Cassel came in and looked pretty good.  He then went to KC and basically sucked.  Until this year, that was always a question mark in the Brady vs. Belichick debate.  

Jones may be a very good QB, but it's impossible to say he's a guy who can help carry a franchise because he's never had to.  Not even close.

[Jet2020]

On 3/29/2021 at 6:41 AM, Integrity28 said:

Hope he drops to us at 23, after we already used 2 for Wilson, instead  of trading for a team-changing haul, and this place goes bonkers.

A very unpopular opinion but if that scenario was to play out, I’d draft Fields as well and let the best man take the job while trading away the other prospect a year later for a 1st. 

[Bay Ridge Jet]

2 minutes ago, Jet2020 said:

A very unpopular opinion but if that scenario was to play out, I’d draft Fields as well and let the best man take the job while trading away the other prospect a year later for a 1st. 

That would be a nightmare. This roster is still bad and needs every pick it can get. If for some reason he’s at 23, you trade back and collect picks from a team who wants to come up and take him. 

[k-met57]

10 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Lamar had 960, 1571 & 1601 respectively. So please explain to me how they are similar prospects outside of being black and fast?

never said they were the same or similar...did they they are both "dual threat QB's"....which in my book means they NEED to both throw and run to be successful. you don't have to agree....but u can miss me with that race bating sh*t.

[legler82]

3 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

never said they were the same or similar...did they they are both "dual threat QB's"....which in my book means they NEED to both throw and run to be successful. you don't have to agree....but u can miss me with that race bating sh*t.

I disagree with your book. Zach Wilson ran for roughly 250 yards and 10 TDs as well. Fields rushing numbers are much closer to his than Lamar. Does Zach NEED to run  to be successful too?

[NYJ1]

the confusion going is about Justin Fields himself and his sexuality. Other than that, he SUCKS and he's sunk like a stone because everyone knows he's not even close to being as good as Wilson.

[Irish Jet]

The more astute observers among us have seen this coming all along - If we'd have taken him at #2 this franchise would be toast for at least another 5 years. Any sort of closer analysis of him highlights the issues he'll have in the NFL - his mechanics, consistency, decision making - All the makings of a turnover machine at the next level. He's an absolute mess. Should be probably 6-7th QB taken but someone will buy into the college hype. 

[Jet2020]

7 minutes ago, Bay Ridge Jet said:

That would be a nightmare. This roster is still bad and needs every pick it can get. If for some reason he’s at 23, you trade back and collect picks from a team who wants to come up and take him. 

Team at 22 could’ve done the same, why would Jets be offered a haul? Yes we have holes, but the biggest and most important one is at QB. Team is only as good as your QB, save for the outliers. And we wouldn’t be wasting resources. One of the QB would be traded a year later for at least a 2nd. 

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

never said they were the same or similar...did they they are both "dual threat QB's"....which in my book means they NEED to both throw and run to be successful. you don't have to agree....but u can miss me with that race bating sh*t.

Nothing about Fields' passing game suggests he 'needs' to run to be successful any more than the other top guys.  In 2020, Wilson had twice as many rushing TDs as Fields (in 50% more games).  In 2019, Trevor outrushed Fields 563 to 484.  And so much of that can be based on system, opponent, and whether you have the kind of OLine that creates lanes.  Fields is NOTHING like Lamar and is far more of a prototype passer than a dual threat other than the fact that he has the build and ability to run better than most guys.

I know some sites cast Fields as 'dual-threat' but I wonder how much is based on unconscious bias.  

[Irish Jet]

3 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

the confusion going is about Justin Fields himself and his sexuality. Other than that, he SUCKS and he's sunk like a stone because everyone knows he's not even close to being as good as Wilson.

[k-met57]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

Nothing about Fields' passing game suggests he 'needs' to run to be successful any more than the other top guys.  In 2020, Wilson had twice as many rushing TDs as Fields (in 50% more games).  In 2019, Trevor outrushed Fields 563 to 484.  And so much of that can be based on system, opponent, and whether you have the kind of OLine that creates lanes.  Fields is NOTHING like Lamar and is far more of a prototype passer than a dual threat other than the fact that he has the build and ability to run better than most guys.

I know some sites cast Fields as 'dual-threat' but I wonder how much is based on unconscious bias.  

i think he will need to run at the pro level. i dont see how his passing projects to the NFL at the level where he can be any kind of a drop back passer. he doesnt have a lot of off platform throws, and he isnt great at going through reads and finding open receivers. he to me is cam newton.

[slimjasi]

27 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I’m going for the high upside guy every time, that’s why I was a Mariota, Wentz, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert & now Fields guy. However, I know it’s easy for me to take that approach as I’m on my couch & my job is not on the line.

That’s a pretty good list of QBs. Do you like Wilson? 

[legler82]

Just now, slimjasi said:

That’s a pretty good list of QBs. Do you like Wilson? 

I like Wilson just not over Fields. 

[slimjasi]

9 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

the confusion going is about Justin Fields himself and his sexuality. 

[nycdan]

7 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

i think he will need to run at the pro level. i dont see how his passing projects to the NFL at the level where he can be any kind of a drop back passer. he doesnt have a lot of off platform throws, and he isnt great at going through reads and finding open receivers. he to me is cam newton.

Fair enough.  I'm far from an expert at this.  The worst thing I see (and which I don't like) is that he seems to underthrow a little on deep balls, forcing his receiver to reach back to the ball.  Dangerous.  Wilson seems to have a bit more touch on those, catching his receiver in full stride.  Point to Wilson for that.

But I don't see any issues with his short/medium range throws and, in fact, he appears to be more accurate than either Wilson or Lawrence there.  And to me, that's where NFL teams make their money.  5-15 yard throws for first downs.  And I do think he is more comfortable scrambling for that first down when a lane opens up.  It's been largely claimed that he probably runs less than he should, given his abilities, but he has said that he always prefers to throw first, run second.  FWIW, that screams RPO God to me.  Whether that's a good thing or not, I'll leave to others to decide.

But like I said, I may be missing things that scouts see.  I concede that and trust the Jets to sort this crap out better than I have at any point in the past 15 years or so.

[legler82]

4 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

i think he will need to run at the pro level. i dont see how his passing projects to the NFL at the level where he can be any kind of a drop back passer. he doesnt have a lot of off platform throws, and he isnt great at going through reads and finding open receivers. he to me is cam newton.

When did off platform throws become a must?  Fields has shown the ability and that should be all that matters. If you have to throw off platform a lot in the NFL generally speaking your team must suck.  Throwing off platform unnecessarily is a thing (see Darnold & Cutler).  I fear Wilson has a little of that. 

[nycdan]

12 minutes ago, legler82 said:

When did off platform throws become a must?  Fields has shown the ability and that should be all that matters. If you have to throw off platform a lot in the NFL generally speaking your team must suck.  Throwing off platform unnecessarily is a thing (see Darnold & Cutler).  I fear Wilson has a little of that. 

Since Patrick Mahomes turned it into an art form I guess.

[Irish Jet]

14 minutes ago, legler82 said:

When did off platform throws become a must?  Fields has shown the ability and that should be all that matters. If you have to throw off platform a lot in the NFL generally speaking your team must suck.  Throwing off platform unnecessarily is a thing (see Darnold & Cutler).  I fear Wilson has a little of that. 

Boy it's a good job we're the Jets then. 

[fullblast]

It's more likely that the media has simply grown bored of discussing Fields so they start to prop up the other prospects to maintain viewer engagement. Now that everyone's gaga over Wilson, and Fields about to light up his pro day, expect the Wilson teardowns to commence over the next month.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I like Wilson just not over Fields. 

Fields would be my choice as well. 

[legler82]

8 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Since Patrick Mahomes turned it into an art form I guess.

Rodgers has been doing it for years. 

[legler82]

A lot of GMs are going to get themselves fired trying to find the next Mahomes. That boy was/is different.

[Shockwave]

33 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Fair enough.  I'm far from an expert at this.  The worst thing I see (and which I don't like) is that he seems to underthrow a little on deep balls, forcing his receiver to reach back to the ball.  Dangerous.  Wilson seems to have a bit more touch on those, catching his receiver in full stride.  Point to Wilson for that.

But I don't see any issues with his short/medium range throws and, in fact, he appears to be more accurate than either Wilson or Lawrence there.  And to me, that's where NFL teams make their money.  5-15 yard throws for first downs.  And I do think he is more comfortable scrambling for that first down when a lane opens up.  It's been largely claimed that he probably runs less than he should, given his abilities, but he has said that he always prefers to throw first, run second.  FWIW, that screams RPO God to me.  Whether that's a good thing or not, I'll leave to others to decide.

But like I said, I may be missing things that scouts see.  I concede that and trust the Jets to sort this crap out better than I have at any point in the past 15 years or so.

From my understanding the argument between Wilson and Fields literally has nothing to do with accuracy or running. It's a totally different conversation than anything mentioned above which are all fair points. 

[legler82]

This is the best debate/analysis I’ve read/heard regarding Wilson/Fields & Lance is included for good measure. 

 

[QB1]

29 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Since Patrick Mahomes turned it into an art form I guess.

Big Ben, Rodgers, Wilson, etc ...