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Sam Darnold is tough sell for a 2nd round pick.


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You mean arguably the worst starting QB in the league who's about to become expensive isn't held in high regard by NFL front offices? Shocked! National media's love affair with Darnold is mo

EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH MY PERSONAL FAIRYTALE IS A BIG STUPID DUMB DUMB.

So...the Jets should consider a 4th season starting Darnold - this 24 year-old, veteran, former elite/"it" prospect, all-the-tools/can-make-any-throw QB - whom no team regards well enough to surrender

2 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Yikes, the belittling aspect of other’s insecurity on the internet in full effect.
 

I already explained my argument, you missed my entire point, clearly you’re on board to keep Darnold, there’s no reason for me to repeat myself over & over again just in different ways. It’s my birthday.🥳 I’d much rather spend some morning time on JN more positively, so I simply pointed out where we weren’t seeing eye to eye. You’re the one who chose to misinterpret my posts as “all knowing” and combat that in a condescending way.
 

No reason for us to really continue this spat back & fourth. 

ok just one more question....do you admit that your evaluation of QB's has been horrible? i am just curious. you wanted no part of lamar jackson or josh allen and you loved josh rosen if i remember correctly...does that in any way give you pause when making your judgements? possible you are wrong on darnold?

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1 hour ago, nycdan said:

So that's not at all how the 5th year option works.  The Jets have until May 3 to decide whether to exercise the 5th year option or not.  If they don't, Darnold still plays this year but is a FA afterwards.  If they do, his 5th year salary is determined and guaranteed.

They aren't cutting him.  Zero scenarios where that makes any sense.

maybe i read it wrong. thanks

if they cant trade him i can see a release.  there would be a QB controversy. the media would go crazy.

Saleh would be asked every day on whos starting, and if Sam outplays Wilson then JD will look like he busted on the 2OA. that draft pick that just 2 days ago this whole board says is worth more that what Miami got for it.

if Sams gone there is no pressure on Saleh, Wilson or JD cause they would get a pass on this season starting a rookie QB. 

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Just now, k-met57 said:

ok just one more question....do you admit that your evaluation of QB's has been horrible? i am just curious. you wanted no part of lamar jackson or josh allen and you loves josh rosen if i remember correctly...does that in any way give you pause when making your judgements?

Yes, I can admit to that. Do I have pause? Lol No. Because it has actually changed the way I try to look at QB prospects as of recently & it’s exactly that new thought process that led me to getting behind Wilson early. Someone who has an electric arm, rarely turns the ball over, makes tight throws outside of the pocket & fits the style of QBing that has been extremely successful in the NFL.(I.E Kyler Murray) people can always bring up the competition argument but I think he displays tons of really good habits as a passer. Much better footwork, mechanics, ball placement and decision making than Darnold at USC. A tight throw is a tight throw no matter if it’s between between 3 Bama DB’s, 3 Costal Carolina DB’s or 3 trash bins.

As for my prior misses, I didn’t think Jackson was a good enough passer at the next level. I thought he’d have a hard time figuring out defenses. I thought Josh Allen was your typical Ryan Mallett strong armed nothing else type of QB who would also have a difficult time processing quickly and reading defenses. Credit some to the situations both of them landed in, but I thought, at the time, that was a fair assessment to make. I do think the majority of JN shared similar Lamar Jackson & Josh Allen evaluations as well. Rosen seemed the most mechanically clean prospect, spent time in a drop back system & seemed to be bright. it’s easy to see why he was such a likable QB to succeed at the next level. It was surprising to see him completely crumble under pressure, even though AZ had the type of historically bad OL we had in 2018. Ehh nonetheless I think that’s what makes it extremely hard to nail QB picks. That brings me back to my OG point earlier, I didn’t mean to seem like I’m some sort of fortune teller or anything, just that QB is so incredibly unpredictable that many scouts who do this year in & year out are just as wrong as me or you for the same reasons as me or you. 

A lot of if seems like it’s dependent on the team situation, the passing habits of the prospect & how quickly he processes. Coaches can cut the field in half for these guys and simplify pretty well to compensate for lack of experience, they just have to process the reads they do have quick & play with clean passing habits. I like Zach Wilson for those reasons.

anyways I’ve rambled enough — again, I appreciate the birthday wish. Classy of you to do in the midst of a heated debate lol.

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I said earlier in the offseason Darnold could go for a second if there's a team that thinks he could mature into a starter. I'm not sure many of those teams exist right now. With the executed QB trades and the number of first round potential QBs it seems teams that want a QB will get somebody with starter potential through trades or the first/second round. Any team wanting a young backup could draft in the third or fourth. That's Darnold's cheaper competition. 

Unless Darnold shines in the offseason I expect no great offers will come through the year and he'll be released at the end of the year. Maybe if some team develops an urgent mid-season need for a QB replacement. Some team will sign him as a backup but he's going to want to go somewhere he has some opportunity to compete for a starting position. 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Yes, I can admit to that. Do I have pause? Lol No. Because it has actually changed the way I try to look at QB prospects as of recently & it’s exactly that new thought process that led me to getting behind Wilson early. Someone who has an electric arm, rarely turns the ball over, makes tight throws outside of the pocket & fits the style of QBing that has been extremely successful in the NFL.(I.E Kyler Murray) people can always bring up the competition argument but I think he displays tons of really good habits as a passer. Much better footwork, mechanics, ball placement and decision making than Darnold at USC. A tight throw is a tight throw no matter if it’s between between 3 Bama DB’s, 3 Costal Carolina DB’s or 3 trash bins.

As for my prior misses, I didn’t think Jackson was a good enough passer at the next level. I thought he’d have a hard time figuring out defenses. I thought Josh Allen was your typical Ryan Mallett strong armed nothing else type of QB who would also have a difficult time processing quickly and reading defenses. Credit some to the situations both of them landed in, but I thought, at the time, that was a fair assessment to make. I do think the majority of JN shared similar Lamar Jackson & Josh Allen evaluations as well. Rosen seemed the most mechanically clean prospect, spent time in a drop back system & seemed to be bright. it’s easy to see why he was such a likable QB to succeed at the next level. It was surprising to see him completely crumble under pressure, even though AZ had the type of historically bad OL we had in 2018. Ehh nonetheless I think that’s what makes it extremely hard to nail QB picks. That brings me back to my OG point earlier, I didn’t mean to seem like I’m some sort of fortune teller or anything, just that QB is so incredibly unpredictable that many scouts who do this year in & year out are just as wrong as me or you for the same reasons as me or you. 

A lot of if seems like it’s dependent on the team situation, the passing habits of the prospect & how quickly he processes. Coaches can cut the field in half for these guys and simplify pretty well to compensate for lack of experience, they just have to process the reads they do have quick & play with clean passing habits. I like Zach Wilson for those reasons.

anyways I’ve rambled enough — again, I appreciate the birthday wish. Classy of you to do in the midst of a heated debate lol.

Lol all good. We are all after the same thing here, Jets wins.

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6 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Even if you can get a late 4th round pick for Sam it’s better than waiting on any potential comp pick in 2023.  

 

6 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Not if he signs the low $$ back up 1 yr deal that you’d expect him to only have to pick from.

You guys are seriously underrating Darnold. I promise, I’ll bet you a case of beer, he will be starting for a playoff team within the next 3-4 years. 

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2 hours ago, Ghost said:

 

You guys are seriously underrating Darnold. I promise, I’ll bet you a case of beer, he will be starting for a playoff team within the next 3-4 years. 

We will still be going 6-10 while he does. At least we will have free time to watch him win playoff games for the Steelers.

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9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No it isn't. Not even in the same ballpark.

Were  you surprised his take was completely wrong and mildly braindead?

Seems par for the course.

If Sam walks and signs a backup contact for backup money we likely see very little return.

The Bears are projected a 2022 7th round comp pick for Trubisky.

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6 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

Were  you surprised his take was completely wrong and mildly braindead?

Seems par for the course.

If Sam walks and signs a backup contact for backup money we likely see very little return.

The Bears are projected a 2022 7th round comp pick for Trubisky.

Mariota returned a 5th round comp pick. He at least had a promising rookie season and good second season before getting humiliated by Tannehill. Still, he's had a HOF career in comparison to Darnold so far. 

Put aside that we wouldn't get a pick anyway. Even if we did it wouldn't be anywhere near a 3rd. If he's good enough to garner a 3rd we're not letting him hit FA. If he's good enough to garner a 3rd and we let him go, it's still 2 years and however-many outright slots difference. i.e. not even in the ballpark.

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11 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Here is MUCH more reliable source. Sorry about gettin some of you guys hyped up for what seems to be nothing.

 

It's almost like extending him would help with trading him

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11 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Josh Allen is both significantly better than a lot of us thought he'd be, and also not nearly as good as he's made out to be.

But, more specifically to this point, Allen does two things well - he has two skillsets to build around:

1) Favre+ arm

2) Dangerous runner

So, the Bills have been able to mask his deficiencies and utilize his strengths.  After 3 years, Sam Darnold has no absolute strengths.  None.  There's nothing about his game that is better than average, and his mental acuity for the game is below average.  He's got nothing to highlight while you try to mask the negatives.  Him and Allen are totally different players.

This is key.

Darnold might have some great throws every once in a while, but it's not like he's some out of this world raw talent. People cling to him rolling out of the pocket and throwing for a first down as reason for why he's got serious potential when everyone and their dog can do that now. There's not that ability to push the ball and play gutsy football like Allen. The guy rarely makes anything happen downfield, and is woefully inaccurate when doing so. Even at his best ever he still doesn't sling it. If he had the talent of Allen I'd be more inclined to keep him, but a full scale reclamation project with Darnold will probably never yield a top QB.

On a related note, bored curiosity led me down the Blake Bortles highlight rabbit hole, and what I found from him was similar in some ways though still different. Bortles had that same roll out of the pocket skillset, but at his best he actually bombed the football and made some crazy throws downfield unlike Darnold. I came away with the impression that Bortles had more raw talent than Darnold, but unlike him threw 35 TD's in a season. They're both very similar. 

His arm is above average, his mobility is above average, he can hit some angles, but then everything else that has to do with the QB position is lackluster both physical and mental. Can he be good? Yeah, it's a possibility. However even at his best I still don't see an elite QB. His touted improv skillset is way more common than people here think because we've never really had a guy that can do it.

 

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Some of us have been saying this exact same thing. Rosen still had hope when he got traded. 

 

I have no idea how people twisted themselves into knots to make the case that Darnold being in the league and being one of the worst for 3 straight years was somehow worth more than Rosen who only had one terrible year.

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23 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Washington Picked Fitzpatrick over seeking Darnold.

That says...so much.

Well, to be fair, Washington isn't the posterchild for awesome roster decisions, but I tend to agree. 

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I will be 100% honest, the more I think about it, the more I think there is a reasonable chance that Darnold is back with Wilson. It's typically not what is done, but the Jets seem to be internally very high on Sam from our solid board sources and I just have a feeling that it could be in play if Douglas doesn't get what he's looking for a in a trade. 

 

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4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Well, to be fair, Washington isn't the posterchild for awesome roster decisions, but I tend to agree. 

True enough, although I think they're much better run now under Rivera than they have been in a long time.

I'm hoping Saleh brings us what Rivera seems to have brought to D.C.

Be assured, even with lolFitz, the WFT should compete for that division next year.

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

True enough, although I think they're much better run now under Rivera than they have been in a long time.

I'm hoping Saleh brings us what Rivera seems to have brought to D.C.

Be assured, even with lolFitz, the WFT should compete for that division next year.

Oh,  I  agree. I need to see what they do in the draft, but they are my early pick to repeat as division champs - with Fitz. I think that division is wide open. And I think Rivera is the most underrated coach in the league. People forget that he got to a Super Bowl that he easily could have won if his QB didn't sh*t the bed. 

I also have to think Washington is looking hard at this QB class. 

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Just now, slimjasi said:

Oh,  I  agree. I need to see what they do in the draft, but they are my early pick to repeat as division champs - with Fitz. I think that division is wide open. And I think Rivera is the most underrated coach in the league. People forget that he got to a Super Bowl that he easily could have won if his QB didn't sh*t the bed. 

I also have to think Washington is looking hard at this QB class. 

Agreed.  I think they could be taking Trask honestly.  Low cost investment, since they can't get any of the top guys.  But could be better than some think at the NFL level, in a game-manager kinda way (a ala Cousins).

And agreed on Rivera, I'd have been happy had we hired him instead of say, Gase, lol.

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8 hours ago, y2k8 said:

It's off the table because it's a disaster in waiting. There's very few good scenarios and mostly bad ones.

There's a reason that teams don't do this on any regular basis. The wet dreams about two 1st round picks battling it out and getting a franchise QB AND driving up the value for the other guy don't happen. 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Washington Picked Fitzpatrick over seeking Darnold.

That says...so much.

The front office that drafted Dwayne Haskins and RG3 can’t evaluate the quarterback position?

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58 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

The front office that drafted Dwayne Haskins and RG3 can’t evaluate the quarterback position?

What are you talking about, those front offices are long gone.  Rivera is making the calls.  Had nothing to do with RG3 (or Cousins) or Haskins.

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2 hours ago, Grandy said:

This is key.

Darnold might have some great throws every once in a while, but it's not like he's some out of this world raw talent. People cling to him rolling out of the pocket and throwing for a first down as reason for why he's got serious potential when everyone and their dog can do that now. There's not that ability to push the ball and play gutsy football like Allen. The guy rarely makes anything happen downfield, and is woefully inaccurate when doing so. Even at his best ever he still doesn't sling it. If he had the talent of Allen I'd be more inclined to keep him, but a full scale reclamation project with Darnold will probably never yield a top QB.

On a related note, bored curiosity led me down the Blake Bortles highlight rabbit hole, and what I found from him was similar in some ways though still different. Bortles had that same roll out of the pocket skillset, but at his best he actually bombed the football and made some crazy throws downfield unlike Darnold. I came away with the impression that Bortles had more raw talent than Darnold, but unlike him threw 35 TD's in a season. They're both very similar. 

His arm is above average, his mobility is above average, he can hit some angles, but then everything else that has to do with the QB position is lackluster both physical and mental. Can he be good? Yeah, it's a possibility. However even at his best I still don't see an elite QB. His touted improv skillset is way more common than people here think because we've never really had a guy that can do it.

 

How was the rest of the team surrounding Sammy?

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Agreed.  I think they could be taking Trask honestly.  Low cost investment, since they can't get any of the top guys.  But could be better than some think at the NFL level, in a game-manager kinda way (a ala Cousins).

And agreed on Rivera, I'd have been happy had we hired him instead of say, Gase, lol.

Trask is interesting because he secretly had a monster year that no one talks about. Haven't heard much buzz for him but he's potentially interesting. 

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24 minutes ago, peebag said:

How was the rest of the team surrounding Sammy?

I hear ya, but at the end of the day, it looks like the Jets are choosing to replace Sam. Douglas knows what Sam's surroundings were. And maybe he's still high on him. But if he's choosing to move on, Sam didn't do enough to earn his job for next year. 

If Sam could have had just a few good to great games this year (similar to his vs. Cowboys, @Washington, vs. Raiders games last year), he'd be here next year. Why? Because we'd be picking 5th, 6th or 7th instead of 2nd and most people on here would be comfortable riding with Sam and his "potential" in year 4 over the 4th or 5th QB in this draft. 

To be honest, it's a shame Sam couldn't do that because a part of me would have loved to see it. 

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30 minutes ago, peebag said:

How was the rest of the team surrounding Sammy?

My post has nothing to do with his surrounding talent and production, but everything to do with his own talent and skills.

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3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Some of us have been saying this exact same thing. Rosen still had hope when he got traded. 

 

I have no idea how people twisted themselves into knots to make the case that Darnold being in the league and being one of the worst for 3 straight years was somehow worth more than Rosen who only had one terrible year.

you got to admire them for getting rid of Rosen after one year and drafting Murray.

if that was us we would have passed on Murray and picked some more weapons for Rosen. LOL

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5 hours ago, doitny said:

you got to admire them for getting rid of Rosen after one year and drafting Murray.

if that was us we would have passed on Murray and picked some more weapons for Rosen. LOL

No. We would have drafted more defense for a young QB.

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The best thing for Darnold would be to go somewhere as a backup and learn a system with the same coaching staff for a few years  and see if he can develop into a Jimmy G or Kirk Cousins.

That‘s best case scenario and his absolute ceiling (if all goes well). I wish him well, and he’ll be fine he’s rich now...

...but you don’t pass up on drafting a QB at #2 for the POTENTIAL to maybe/possibly become an average starter.

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i tend to think it was more so JD overplaying.
we really still believe he needed a pro day to decide who he's rolling with at qb?  he was trying to squeeze out as much leverage and make teams anxious to make a move.  it didn't work.  now he'll either be traded for nothing, or cut.
If we had traded him already, it would have completely shut the door on trading down from 2. By keeping him it kept options open, and they were likely well aware that there wasn't much genuine interest anyway.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

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