Jump to content

Albert Breer: 49ers decided Jets weren't trading the #2 pick; Watch Carolina and Pittsburg for Darnold move.


BroadwayRay
 Share

Recommended Posts

• The Niners have close ties to the Jets staff. Lynch and Jets GM Joe Douglas are friendly, and of course Shanahan is new Jets coach Robert Saleh’s old boss. The Niners did have some internal discussion on Sam Darnold. And in the process of vetting they figured that the Jets weren’t moving the second pick.

April 8–10 is going to be an important weekend in the NFL. Over those three days, the NFL is inviting 150 prospects to Indianapolis for physicals. Each team will be allowed to bring two people to the event (a team doc and an orthopedic specialist) to go through the normal checks that players would normally go through at the combine. For a player like Farley (coming off shoulder surgery) or Alabama WR Jaylen Waddle (coming off a broken ankle), that weekend looms large, and is accordingly a big one for teams going into their final set of draft meetings. On one hand, it’s great that the NFL and combine people are doing this, even if the proposed multi-site idea (where they’d have guys get physicals in four different locations across the country, with teams flying in) might’ve been more effective. On the other, it highlights the problem teams and players with injury history are facing this year. Normally, teams would have medicals on around 330 players from the combine, and the ability to bring others in for physicals, meaning scouts will be assessing somewhere around 200 players more than usual with incomplete medical information. They’ll still have “virtual” physicals from those on the list of invites the combine released last month who won’t be in Indy this weekend (I’m told 90% of those have been completed). But that’s not the same as a team getting its doc’s hands on every guy. And on Day 3 of the draft, there’s a chance that will have a very, very real impact for players whom teams have never been face-to-face with, and it will for teams, too, in how they manage risk in that area.

That weekend’s also going to present Wilson with his final box to be checked. As we’ve said for a couple weeks, the Jets wanted to be able to dot the I’s and cross the T’s on Wilson, and the other quarterbacks in the class, before really putting Sam Darnold out there for trade. And the physical is a part of it for Wilson. The BYU quarterback had surgery on his throwing shoulder between his freshman and sophomore years. The expectation is that it will check out fine next week in Indy. But if you’re Douglas and the Jets, I’m sure you’d like to know for sure, from your own doctors, that the shoulder’s going to be O.K.

As for where Darnold could wind up next? I’d keep an eye on Carolina and Pittsburgh. Darnold would represent a worthy, and affordable, dart to throw at the quarterback board if the Panthers are convinced the quarterbacks they’d want will be gone by the time they pick at wight (and Atlanta having the fourth pick doesn’t help them). As for the Steelers, if the price is right they could see some similarities in how Darnold plays to how their own quarterback did in his early 20s, and throw Darnold in there to compete with Dwayne Haskins to be Ben

Roethlisberger’s heir. Washington and Denver have also come up as possible landing spots, though I know each had some misgivings on his tape.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/03/29/mmqb-inside-49ers-dolphins-trade-nfl-dr

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Comparing Wilson, Darnold and Garoppolo-

  • Wilson and Garoppolo are the same height.  Garopollo weighed 12 pounds more pre-draft.  That is alot considering that we know Wilson packed on at least 10 pounds over the last few months.  
  • Darnold is actually about an inch taller than Garopollo, but weighs about the same, maybe a little less.  Garoppolo is the sturdiest of the three, but still gets hurt.
  • Garoppolo appeared in 21 games for the Patriots, started 2.  He looked very good in his two starts and otherwise looked good in fill-in/injury sub.  I think we can find at least 2 games where Darnold looked good.  Based on Garoppolo's college career and his limited appearances, the 49ers gave the Patriots a 2nd round draft pick for the last year's of Garoppolo's contract.  I think someone should give the Jets a second round pick for Darnold.   I hope its this year.  
  • There is no way Wilson plays 16 games in a Jets season, particularly behind this line.  The question is who signs up as the interim if we are not going to use Darnold that way.  
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, varjet said:

Comparing Wilson, Darnold and Garoppolo-

  • Wilson and Garoppolo are the same height.  Garopollo weighed 12 pounds more pre-draft.  That is alot considering that we know Wilson packed on at least 10 pounds over the last few months.  
  • Darnold is actually about an inch taller than Garopollo, but weighs about the same, maybe a little less.  Garoppolo is the sturdiest of the three, but still gets hurt.
  • Garoppolo appeared in 21 games, started 2.  He looked very good in his two starts and otherwise looked good in fill-in/injury sub.  I think we can find at least 2 games where Darnold looked good.  Based on Garoppolo's college career and his limited appearances, the 49ers gave the Patriots a 2nd round draft pick for the last year's of Garoppolo's contract.  I think someone should give the Jets a second round pick for Darnold.   I hope its this year.  
  • There is no way Wilson plays 16 games in a Jets season, particularly behind this line.  The question is who signs up as the interim if we are not going to use Darnold that way.  

Garapolo looked great in his two starts for NE when Brady was suspended.  He had 5TDs and 0 INT's and went 2 and O.  BB didn't want to trade him but Brady forced their hand.  SF immediately signed him to a long term deal.  They absolutely loved him.  If he could stay healthy they wouldn't be looking to move on.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Garapolo looked great in his two starts for NE when Brady was suspended.  He had 5TDs and 0 INT's and went 2 and O.  BB didn't want to trade him but Brady forced their hand.  SF immediately signed him to a long term deal.  They absolutely loved him.  If he could stay healthy they wouldn't be looking to move on.  

I have this sneaky feeling that the 49ers are going to take Lance and he is going to end up better than Wilson.  

I would almost make the 49ers give up the second round pick to trade up to 2. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's amazing to me that everyone concludes the 49ers traded to 3 because Saleh/Douglas let Lynch/Shanahan know the Jets weren't moving and selecting Wilson. 

It just as easily could have been Saleh/Douglas letting them know they weren't taking Wilson, so the 49ers traded up to 3 to get him. 

Because hes the only QB outside of Lawrence that makes sense for that sort of massive trade. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Thumb Down 4
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, JTJet said:

It's amazing to me that everyone concludes the 49ers traded to 3 because Saleh/Douglas let Lynch/Shanahan know the Jets weren't moving and selecting Wilson. 

It just as easily could have been Saleh/Douglas letting them know they weren't taking Wilson, so the 49ers traded up to 3 to get him. 

Because hes the only QB outside of Lawrence that makes sense for that sort of massive trade. 

the jets are not telling the 49ers which qb they're taking a month before the draft when they haven't traded darnold.  

  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the jets are not telling the 49ers which qb they're taking a month before the draft when they haven't traded darnold.  

I agree. That's why I dont understand why everyone seems to think that conversation happened. Even if these dudes are friends. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, JTJet said:

It's amazing to me that everyone concludes the 49ers traded to 3 because Saleh/Douglas let Lynch/Shanahan know the Jets weren't moving and selecting Wilson. 

It just as easily could have been Saleh/Douglas letting them know they weren't taking Wilson, so the 49ers traded up to 3 to get him. 

Because hes the only QB outside of Lawrence that makes sense for that sort of massive trade. 

Awwww still holding out hope for Darnold? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, oatmeal said:

Awwww still holding out hope for Darnold? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

No. 

I'm simply saying that it makes zero sense to let anyone, including your closest friends on other teams, know what you're doing in the draft. Especially in the scenario were in. 

(But for the record, yes I wish we were sticking with Darnold) 

  • Upvote 3
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, JTJet said:

I agree. That's why I dont understand why everyone seems to think that conversation happened. Even if these dudes are friends. 

IMO the difference is, if the Jets tell the 9er's they are taking Wilson, it doesn't hurt them one bit.  They still get Wilson.

If they tell the 9er's they aren't taking Wilson, but trading the pick, they have just taken draft capitol out of their pocket.  The 9er's trade with the Fish, and the Jet are left in the cold.

Just doesn't make any sense to me. 

  • Upvote 2
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

I think it's been said repeatedly... the Jets were not going trade out of the top ten. 49ers didn't have the right capital for the #2.

How about the Eagles?    Word was they wantd to come up in the draft, but only if they could get Wilson, they couldn't.  Jets and Birds seem friendly also.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, JTJet said:

It's amazing to me that everyone concludes the 49ers traded to 3 because Saleh/Douglas let Lynch/Shanahan know the Jets weren't moving and selecting Wilson. 

It just as easily could have been Saleh/Douglas letting them know they weren't taking Wilson, so the 49ers traded up to 3 to get him. 

Because hes the only QB outside of Lawrence that makes sense for that sort of massive trade. 

the 49ers traded up to draft Trey Lance or Mac Jones. They had their pro days and they like what they saw out of one of them. Many believe they traded up for Fields but he hasn't has his pro day yet so that makes no sense for them going that route.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, JTJet said:

It's amazing to me that everyone concludes the 49ers traded to 3 because Saleh/Douglas let Lynch/Shanahan know the Jets weren't moving and selecting Wilson. 

It just as easily could have been Saleh/Douglas letting them know they weren't taking Wilson, so the 49ers traded up to 3 to get him. 

Because hes the only QB outside of Lawrence that makes sense for that sort of massive trade. 

They would arguably the dumbest move in NFL GM history.  So they just let a ton of assets go down the drain because they were being nice guys. Actually, it would be the dumbest move 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, JTJet said:

No. 

I'm simply saying that it makes zero sense to let anyone, including your closest friends on other teams, know what you're doing in the draft. Especially in the scenario were in. 

(But for the record, yes I wish we were sticking with Darnold) 

There’s reports of Miami looking to trade up before they made the trade down moves pretty much locks in Zach as the pick. Sorry 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

It's amazing to me that everyone concludes the 49ers traded to 3 because Saleh/Douglas let Lynch/Shanahan know the Jets weren't moving and selecting Wilson. 

It just as easily could have been Saleh/Douglas letting them know they weren't taking Wilson, so the 49ers traded up to 3 to get him. 

Because hes the only QB outside of Lawrence that makes sense for that sort of massive trade. 

also reminds me of another GM that would be stupid enough to trade up not knowing for sure who will be there at their draft pick... Mike Maccagnan and I'm sure he thought Mayfield would be there. 49ers know which QB will be there at #3 spot and that QB will sit behind Jimmy G for a year

  • Upvote 1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

It's amazing to me that everyone concludes the 49ers traded to 3 because Saleh/Douglas let Lynch/Shanahan know the Jets weren't moving and selecting Wilson. 

It just as easily could have been Saleh/Douglas letting them know they weren't taking Wilson, so the 49ers traded up to 3 to get him. 

Because hes the only QB outside of Lawrence that makes sense for that sort of massive trade. 

I love how people give you thumbs down for this, but this could absolutely correct.  NOBODY KNOWS PEOPLE!

  • Upvote 1
  • Thumb Down 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

They would arguably the dumbest move in NFL GM history.  So they just let a ton of assets go down the drain because they were being nice guys. Actually, it would be the dumbest move 

That's what's being argued on the other side though. That they let Lynch know what they were going to do. Either scenario doesnt make any sense at all. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

I love how people give you thumbs down for this, but this could absolutely correct.  NOBODY KNOWS PEOPLE!

It gets thumbs down because it challenges their preconception. 

All I'm saying is that ANY scenario, one way or another, it would make absolutely zero sense to let a team (even if they are your buddies) in on what you are doing. 

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

It's amazing to me that everyone concludes the 49ers traded to 3 because Saleh/Douglas let Lynch/Shanahan know the Jets weren't moving and selecting Wilson. 

It just as easily could have been Saleh/Douglas letting them know they weren't taking Wilson, so the 49ers traded up to 3 to get him. 

Because hes the only QB outside of Lawrence that makes sense for that sort of massive trade. 

So who are they taking at 2?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

I agree. That's why I dont understand why everyone seems to think that conversation happened. Even if these dudes are friends. 

You are missing the second part of the equation. Philly wanted to trade to 3 as well but ONLY for Wilson. They moved back. Conveniently on the day of Wilson's Pro Day and within an hour of Wilson measuring well (actually very well). You are naïve if you think that Douglas and Saleh did not clue in them about their intentions. They are not going to screw over their friends and burn bridges, GMs DO discuss actual players in trade scenarios. There is really no possibility that Roseman did not ask Douglas something like "if we trade to 3 do you think Wilson will be there?" and for Lynch to ask "Joe, are you interested in trading out of 3?"

The two together are such strong evidence that it is like 99% certain the Jets are taking Wilson. Allbright has stated that the Jets are not even hiding that they are picking Wilson and he is one of the most dependable insiders. Breer has confirmed it as has King last night.

It would be incredibly shocking at this point if the Jets do not select Wilson. You may not like it, but it is what it is. Also the SF trade made the cost of the #2 pick pretty much unreachable. Carolina will probably switch to discussion with Cincinatti  Detroit and even Miami for trading up. First 3 picks are locks at QB (Lawrence, Wilson, Lance/Jones). Pretty much all of the playmakers are falling. In fact if Atlanta chooses to not draft a QB or trade down, then there is a good chance Fields drops to Carolina anyway. I see no way anyone trades up to 2 at this point.

  • Upvote 1
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, oatmeal said:

There’s reports of Miami looking to trade up before they made the trade down moves pretty much locks in Zach as the pick. Sorry 

If we take Wilson, I will fully support him as our new QB but I don't  see how anyone says this is a lock. It's like everyone must have expected after preforming a throughly rehersed pro day, that he would look bad or something.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

So who are they taking at 2?

I think JD really wants to take Sewell and give the middle finger to everyone.

Can't do that at 2 tho..  he'll try and trade down and if he can't that twink is probably the new qb..  yay.

  • Upvote 1
  • Thumb Down 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BroadwayRay said:

NFC exec 3 on Wilson: “Walking away, if you’re [Jets GM] Joe Douglas, you feel better about it, that, ‘Yup, this is the guy.’ 

AFC exec 3 on Wilson:  A BYU kid going to New York, he’ll need a little work, of course.… 

 

Seems like the league believes Wilson to NY is a foregone conclusion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Pac said:

I think JD really wants to take Sewell and give the middle finger to everyone.

Can't do that at 2 tho..  he'll try and trade down and if he can't that twink is probably the new qb..  yay.

Twink? He weighs the same as Mac Jones and more than Trevor Lawrence. Same height as Favre, Rodgers, Mahomes and Watson.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BroadwayRay said:

On the Wilson durability issue, Breer interviewed a few execs at the pro day who had no problems with him:

 

NFC exec 3 on Wilson: “He ended up being bigger than I thought he’d be, and that was the No. 1 thing people worried about. He was 215 pounds, his hands measured out, he was fine with all that stuff. On the field, he was really impressive. He’s an easier thrower than I realized, very smooth motion. Where some guys have a hitch or a windup, the ball jumps right off his hand.… He’s an easy thrower on the move, you can tell he’s a natural athlete. The arm strength is excellent, the accuracy was good. He got in a rhythm where he was really hot. He also missed a couple. Walking away, if you’re [Jets GM] Joe Douglas, you feel better about it, that, ‘Yup, this is the guy.’ From a pure physical standpoint, he’s all good. You have a little medical question, because there’s so much unknown this year with everyone, he had the [2019 surgery on his] shoulder. But I don’t think that’ll be a big deal.”

 

AFC exec 2 on Wilson: “It was really good, he’s super talented. He throws so easy, he has a really quick delivery, he can throw from all angles and zip it if he needs to. The arm strength—if there was any question I had, it might’ve been there, and he certainly answered it. There were some throws, on each sideline, you could tell where he didn’t really rip it on tape. I’m not as worried about that now.… Could it have been better? Sure, he missed a couple. But from a talent stand, it was really impressive.… [Seeing his stature] was good. He’s not a skinny-legged guy, he’s not frail, he’s put together. I’d heard the heaviest ever been before this was 205. He was 214 at pro day, and it looked good. And he has a bigger lower body than people thought.… From a tape standpoint, he wasn’t as good as [Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers] coming out. But that’s easy to say now. Some of the ability to throw from different angles, and with a release that quick is similar to those guys. Rodgers is probably more appropriate. Remember, people weren’t super [excited] with Rodgers’ arm either, which seems crazy now. So is he as talented as those guys, as an athlete? Maybe. Is he gonna be a great generational quarterback? I don’t know.”

AFC exec 3 on Wilson: “He threw it well. He missed a few, I think he was pretty pumped up going in, so that might’ve been it. He can really throw it. It’s easy for him. He can throw across his body, on the move, to his right, to his left.… You could tell he had some nerves early, but he was poised enough to get it together. If you’re comfortable with the guy and his leadership—and I think that’ll check out—he’s really good. A BYU kid going to New York, he’ll need a little work, of course.… He looked better [physically] than I thought he would. He’s over 6’2”, and he’s not a rail, he’s got a good lower body. And you can tell he’s gotten stronger since the season.”

 

It's interesting that they keep talking about his lower body and not about his upper body. It's almost like you generate arm strength from your hips, ass and legs. Where are all my,  "his upper body is too frail" guys? Scouts don't care about that on QBs, like I said. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, varjet said:

I have this sneaky feeling that the 49ers are going to take Lance and he is going to end up better than Wilson.  

I would almost make the 49ers give up the second round pick to trade up to 2. 

Depends on what they put around him.   If the Jets don't improve that line, and get a real running back and a legit pass catcher, whoever they draft will fail.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

That's what's being argued on the other side though. That they let Lynch know what they were going to do. Either scenario doesnt make any sense at all. 

Any adept negotiator can figure out another person's position based on how they respond to questions. It's really not that difficult. People get paid a lot of money to have those skills. The idea that JD has to overtly tell someone his position for them to know what he's thinking is silly. This sh*t is business 101.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, choon328 said:

It's interesting that they keep talking about his lower body and not about his upper body. It's almost like you generate arm strength from your hips, ass and legs. Where are all my,  "his upper body is too frail" guys? Scouts don't care about that on QBs, like I said. 

Is Zach Wilson an option for Jacksonville Jaguars with 2nd overall pick?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Seems like the league believes Wilson to NY is a foregone conclusion. 

Plus Wilson is meeting Pennington and Sanchez (?) to discuss handling NY media. Seems like a done deal.

There was a reaction shot of Wilson when he talked to Douglas and Saleh and LaFleur where they either told him they were incredibly impressed or he is the pick.

By the way, telling Philly and 49ers that you are taking Wilson if you are has no effect on the Jets whatsoever. But telling them you are not taking Wilson would be the dumbest thing ever because you lose all leverage and possibility of a trade down.

  • Upvote 1
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Any adept negotiator can figure out another person's position based on how they respond to questions. It's really not that difficult. People get paid a lot of money to have those skills. The idea that JD has to overtly tell someone his position for them to know what he's thinking is silly. This sh*t is business 101.

True. Being a technical salesperson deciphering language and tone it is all that I do to be honest. In person you can tell a ton by body language. Last year I was working on a huge opportunity that my boss thought we had no chance at. After a meeting with them I explained that we were going to win because they all had open, super comfortable body language. He didn;t believe it. We won.

Same in the NFL. All Roseman has to do is say "hey you like Wilson?" and JDs words and body language will tell him all he needs to know.

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, BroadwayRay said:

As we’ve said for a couple weeks, the Jets wanted to be able to dot the I’s and cross the T’s on Wilson, and the other quarterbacks in the class, before really putting Sam Darnold out there for trade.

For those who are wondering why the Jets haven't traded Sam yet or may have "missed the market," you don't make such a monumental move as drafting a QB and trading your current one until you're sure the new guy isn't damaged goods.  I've been saying that even if the Jets get something like a late 2nd round pick instead of an early 2nd round pick because they waited a few extra weeks to check out Wilson more thoroughly that is draft capital well spent.  Look at it as the price of insurance allowing your organization, coaches, doctors, etc. to increase their confidence level from say 70% to 85% that Wilson is the right guy (following the Pro Day and medical eval at the upcoming "Combine light")

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share



×
×
  • Create New...