2021 NFL Draft Mega-thread: News, Rumors, and Discussion

[Paradis]

15 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

Its true. You can go back in time and find the same statements about OJ Howard, Hockensen, Ebron etc. Every year or two there is a top TE in the class thats a reported freak of nature, that's going to change the TE position, etc, etc, etc. And it seems like year after year, you never end up hearing about the Howard's and Hock's ever again once they hit the NFL. 

 

I’m just ask you to trust me on this one. The record will show I was vehemently against Ebron and Howard. Trying to tell ppl Ebron was fools gold was like swimming against the current. He’s an athlete masquerading as a TE with poor hands and not a natural receiver.... Howard was a total mirage at AB, all of his production came on busted coverages and such. (Brevin Jordan Fans take note). GMs just aren’t earning their salary making those choices.  

I can’t explain why ppl drafted totally average TEs like Maxx Williams or a 26 year old Hayden Hurst in the 1st. 

[BigRy56]

 

[K_O_Brien]

 

[mrcoops]

12 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

 

Could play Guard initially, then move to Right Tackle in the future. Would be a nice pick IMO.

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, David Harris said:

I missed the part explaining the Jets interest?  What's the 411?

 

Where's Wesco stand in this new offense.  It seems like if he can't make the move to the Juice FB role (which I doubt he can) that he's getting booted off or on to the practice squad.

A half dozen or so have been most persistent -- the Jets, Titans, Seahawks and Washington Football Team among them -- but Davidson also knows there is still much work to be done and aims to open as many eyes as possible. He benched 17 reps but wants to add more, and is aiming to get up to 250 pounds of muscle as well, transitioning from a lean diet for pure speed to one geared to add mass.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-draft-from-division-ii-punter-to-nfl-tight-end-the-most-intriguing-prospect-youve-never-heard-of/

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

The Patriots and Chiefs also, coincidentally, have (or had) elite QBs getting those guys the ball. 

Edit: And Gronk was drafted in the 2nd round, while Kelce was drafted in the 3rd round

Yup, two elite QB's.  Funny how every team tries to find this elusive elite level QB.  For every elite QB in the league, there are 25-odd decent QB's, and about 50 that don't even cut the mustard.

MAYBE it's time to try a different strategy in the league. 

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

Short answer: yes. 

. However, I've thought this entire offseason that Carolina would trade for #2. I know their hellbent on finding a QB, and I know they have an aggressive owner willing to pay the price for one. What I did not expect to hear is that they are not as willing to trade up for a QB as people thought they were. Hell, even their GM candidates pitched the relationship with Joe Douglas and ability to make a deal as party of their interviews. But what I do know is the owner has become infatuated with the idea of Watson, and their front office has been selling that absent a star like Watson, it's not worth paying the price to trade up to #2 because (1) it results in too many resources invested in a developing player, which results in less talent around that player, hence draft bust; and (2) there are 5 "top 10" prospects in this draft... what makes more sense: trade up to #5 (or stick at #8) to take the 5th ranked QB (at worst), or invest 3 first-round picks, and at least a second-round pick in your 2nd ranked QB? Idk if they're bluffing or not, but it sure seems like they're fine sitting at 8 and waiting for the best player available to fall to them, QB or not. 

This is why I think we can aggressively pursue #8 using future picks so they have more ammo for Watson. If we include Darnold they get a 1 year audition. and we get an elite playmaker. Thing is though I don't think it is out the realm of possibility for Fields to fall into their lap or so close that a simpler trade to 5, 6 or 7 gets him. I am sure Carolina knows this too. To be honest I do not think there is a trade down option anymore and even trading down to 4 for Pitts or Chase is sort of career suicide. Laugh at me if you will, but the throw of Wilson going viral makes it much harder for JD to not take Wilson. I also think he is the best college QB prospect I have seen (with some correctable flaws) so the next 28 days will be super stressful.

[varjet]

1 hour ago, MichaelScott said:

History more often than not doesn't seem to agree with those projected "athletic freak of nature" "can't miss" prospects and often these guys don't live up to the hype and frequently disappear in the NFL. Not saying Pitts will definitely do that, just pointing out the record at this position. 

"But Pitts has soft hands!!" - Every single year the big name TE has something no one else has. This happens constantly.  

I think its because certain college TEs are too big and fast for college linebackers and safeties, but when those TEs get to the NFL and a greater percentage of the LBs and Safeties are big and fast enough to cover the TEs, they are neutralized.

That being said, given what we know now, where would Gronkowski get drafted?  He was a second round pick.  If you really felt that Pitts was going to be as good as Kronkowski, would you take him top 10?  top 5?  I would consider it.  

But as said above, most of these future star TEs end up not being worth their draft billing.  You are better off taking an impact WR or quality OL for that matter. 

[JohnnyLV]

3 minutes ago, varjet said:

I think its because certain college TEs are too big and fast for college linebackers and safeties, but when those TEs get to the NFL and a greater percentage of the LBs and Safeties are big and fast enough to cover the TEs, they are neutralized.

That being said, given what we know now, where would Gronkowski get drafted?  He was a second round pick.  If you really felt that Pitts was going to be as good as Kronkowski, would you take him top 10?  top 5?  I would consider it.  

But as said above, most of these future star TEs end up not being worth their draft billing.  You are better off taking an impact WR or quality OL for that matter. 

Gronk is a bit different because he is so good at blocking. He helps the run game, then can eliminate a DB from the play just by acting like he is going on a pattern, and then when he does he is super hard to cover. 

Pitts in the end is really just a very bid receiver that is willing to block. He gets defended differently.

[chirorob]

4 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

How about an LT that's very likely to be a 10 year All Pro and possible HOF player. I think of Parcells passing on Orlando Pace.

And Walter Jones, for a freaking inside linebacker.

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Ummm @SAR I & I have said let's do it!!!!  

I love us. 

SAR I

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Yup, two elite QB's.  Funny how every team tries to find this elusive elite level QB.  For every elite QB in the league, there are 25-odd decent QB's, and about 50 that don't even cut the mustard.

MAYBE it's time to try a different strategy in the league. 

Well, right now, I'd settle for a "decent" QB. Cuz, right now, we have one of those guys who isn't cutting the mustard. 

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, football guy said:

I don't think it's media driven TBH. I think this guy is the best QB in the draft and I have for a long time. If he was higher rated coming out of HS, played for USC instead of BYU, and didn't have the injury history, I think people would look at him as the #1 pick. I think Lawrence is a player worthy of going top 5 in any draft, but someone whose vastly overrated. I think Wilson will be a more explosive QB in the NFL if all goes right with his development, whereas Trevor Lawrence will be more of a ho-hum QB like Matt Ryan but more willing to run. Doesn't mean he won't be really good, but just feel that Wilson has the ability/mentality to be a real playmaker at the position without sacrificing the traits required to be a sustainable QB (processing the field, reading defenses, accuracy from within the pocket). 

 

 

I don't agree with this... or maybe I don't believe this sentiment is held in parallel fashion by Coaches (not specific to you b/c a lot of people share your thoughts above)... I think TL is and should be coveted over Wilson. I thought a lot about this, and I'm someone who's been critical of Lawrence as a slight underachiever since his Freshman year... I think an evaluator's perception is going to be different from coaches at times and this highlights that gap. I don't know if I can articulate what I mean effectively, but it's like an engine in terms of capacity. Bolts on are fun and you do can alot with them but head work/block work is when what separates the elite... There's a reason why you can get +1000hp out of a 2JZ consistently and TL came out of HS doing things that are not just abnormal - but was mechanically and developmentally unique and special. Clemson's offense stymied his development at a certain point.... but coaches look past that. OCs come and go. Schemes change.. etc. But what's under the hood is... that's a function of a lot things. And I think that's why Sam still has the support he does. Wilson has a lot of natural gifts and such as a thrower - and word is, he's hella smart. But I don't think he's on the same level as a pure bred level a Trevor Lawrence. 

I'm not sure that makes sense, and feels flimsy trying to explain myself through analogies but *shrugs*

 

[Chrebetfan80]

4 hours ago, Paradis said:

On the topic of TEs, i posted this in the draft forum, but most stick to the main highway here--

If Pitts is out of the equation (likely), I've been a loud supporter of spending a day 3 pick on TE Zach Davidson (6'7, 245) from Central Missouri. His ceiling is the moon. I cut up some film from him earlier this year, and recently CBS ran a story about him after he had a killer Pro day.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-draft-from-division-ii-punter-to-nfl-tight-end-the-most-intriguing-prospect-youve-never-heard-of/

this makes me very.... very happy.

 

You'll get no complaints from me, I was in favor of drafting him late even if we took pitts to have an absurdly athletic 3 TE passing attack.  

[Chrebetfan80]

3 hours ago, Paradis said:

we laughably saw Adam try to H-back' him last year... i think he's looking for a job in september. 

Jets attended Zach's proday showing a lot of interest. This never happens in my world (jets sniffing around my favorite late round guys)... so it's worth an eyebrow raise.

dont tease me! you dont get to call him a crush, i loved him first! lol 

[choon328]

 

Some interesting Jets related nuggets from DP and his "sources"

[DoubleDown]

It boggles my mind how Mac Jones and Trey Lance are being discussed at #3 over Justin Fields.

[prime21]

My order but Hines,y I am fine with all 3.
1.Justin Fields
2. Zach Wilson
3. Sam and Trade kicks


Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

[JTJet]

13 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

It boggles my mind how Mac Jones and Trey Lance are being discussed at #3 over Justin Fields.

423/618 for 5701 (68.4%) 9.2 Yrd Avg 67 TDs 9 Ints 178.8 Rating 0 Championship

413/556 for 6126 (74.3%) 11 Yrd Avg 56 TDs 7 Ints 197.6 Rating 1 Championship

One is Justin Fields...
One is Mac Jones... in 4 LESS games.

He deserves to be in the conversation. 

[MichaelScott]

 

4 hours ago, varjet said:

I think its because certain college TEs are too big and fast for college linebackers and safeties, but when those TEs get to the NFL and a greater percentage of the LBs and Safeties are big and fast enough to cover the TEs, they are neutralized.

That being said, given what we know now, where would Gronkowski get drafted?  He was a second round pick.  If you really felt that Pitts was going to be as good as Kronkowski, would you take him top 10?  top 5?  I would consider it.  

But as said above, most of these future star TEs end up not being worth their draft billing.  You are better off taking an impact WR or quality OL for that matter. 

Excellent point! I hadn't considered this but I think it could definitely be part of the issue. 

I was curious enough to look up the rankings for TE's last season (total yardage, anyway) and I stand corrected, Hock was 3rd ranked by yards and Fant was higher than I thought too. ??‍♂️ IDK, still doesn't really change the way I feel about using a high 1st on the big name TE of that draft. Maybe Pitts will be the one to throw all this out the window. 

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, choon328 said:

 

Some interesting Jets related nuggets from DP and his "sources"

Exactly what I’ve been hearing and posted here the other day:

Hope they get the 2nd, but I’m not too optimistic.

[Jetsbb]

38 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Exactly what I’ve been hearing and posted here the other day:

Hope they get the 2nd, but I’m not too optimistic.

It would be stupid to settle for a 3rd round pick. At that point it makes more sense to hold on to him until at least the trade deadline the next year. A Third gives you a Jabari Zuniga, Chuma Edoga etc... It's not worth it

[Greenseed4]

11 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

It would be stupid to settle for a 3rd round pick. At that point it makes more sense to hold on to him until at least the trade deadline the next year. A Third gives you a Jabari Zuniga, Chuma Edoga etc... It's not worth it

This. We shouldn’t even use picks after round 2 because a couple guys we took in the third round didn’t pan out. ?

[HawkeyeJet]

1 hour ago, MichaelScott said:

 

Excellent point! I hadn't considered this but I think it could definitely be part of the issue. 

I was curious enough to look up the rankings for TE's last season (total yardage, anyway) and I stand corrected, Hock was 3rd ranked by yards and Fant was higher than I thought too. ??‍♂️ IDK, still doesn't really change the way I feel about using a high 1st on the big name TE of that draft. Maybe Pitts will be the one to throw all this out the window. 

One majestic school produced 3 of the leagues best TEs in the span of about 4 years.

Pret good if you ask this very impartial observer. 

[Mogglez]

26 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

It would be stupid to settle for a 3rd round pick. At that point it makes more sense to hold on to him until at least the trade deadline the next year. A Third gives you a Jabari Zuniga, Chuma Edoga etc... It's not worth it

Honestly, I agree.  Personally, I’d rather hold onto Sam and try and package him with 23 to move up in the draft.

[hawk]

I am not a fan of drafting a kid who has had shoulder surgery on his throwing arm, and with that said, I admit I don't know anything else about him.   

He has obviously garnered some recognition though.  

San Fransico has already made a big splash with all indication for a QB.  Is it plausible the Jets could make a move with them for #3 and Jimmy Garappalo.

I am not advocating JG, but has run the offense we are probably going to be running.  Grab Pitts or Sewell at #3 possibly another offensive playmaker at 23.  Let JG and Darnold compete for starting QB.  

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, hawk said:

Let JG and Darnold compete for starting QB. 

[Beerfish]

33 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

It would be stupid to settle for a 3rd round pick. At that point it makes more sense to hold on to him until at least the trade deadline the next year. A Third gives you a Jabari Zuniga, Chuma Edoga etc... It's not worth it

Agreed.  You can get players in the 3rd round but he value of Darnold his higher than that and we are under no big pressure to trade him other than 'oh we just drafted another QB high'

This type of trade is ideal for some conditional term added to it.  As in a 3rd and conditional 2nd or 3rd down the road.

[Pac]

16 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Honestly, I agree.  Personally, I’d rather hold onto Sam and try and package him with 23 to move up in the draft.

If JD lets Sam go for a 3rd and he shines elsewhere he's toast.

It will be very hard to root for Justin Bieber Jr...  still holding out hope Carolina makes their move.

[BroadwayRay]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

Exactly what I’ve been hearing and posted here the other day:

Hope they get the 2nd, but I’m not too optimistic.

I could see it being a 2022 third rounder that turns into a second if Darnold hits certain thresholds. Makes the most sense for a reclamation project like Darnold. 

[Mogglez]

34 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

I could see it being a 2022 third rounder that turns into a second if Darnold hits certain thresholds. Makes the most sense for a reclamation project like Darnold. 

Was literally just thinking about that lol.  Yeah,  I’d have to imagine that definitely being an option.

[JohnnyLV]

6 hours ago, Paradis said:

 

I don't agree with this... or maybe I don't believe this sentiment is held in parallel fashion by Coaches (not specific to you b/c a lot of people share your thoughts above)... I think TL is and should be coveted over Wilson. I thought a lot about this, and I'm someone who's been critical of Lawrence as a slight underachiever since his Freshman year... I think an evaluator's perception is going to be different from coaches at times and this highlights that gap. I don't know if I can articulate what I mean effectively, but it's like an engine in terms of capacity. Bolts on are fun and you do can alot with them but head work/block work is when what separates the elite... There's a reason why you can get +1000hp out of a 2JZ consistently and TL came out of HS doing things that are not just abnormal - but was mechanically and developmentally unique and special. Clemson's offense stymied his development at a certain point.... but coaches look past that. OCs come and go. Schemes change.. etc. But what's under the hood is... that's a function of a lot things. And I think that's why Sam still has the support he does. Wilson has a lot of natural gifts and such as a thrower - and word is, he's hella smart. But I don't think he's on the same level as a pure bred level a Trevor Lawrence. 

I'm not sure that makes sense, and feels flimsy trying to explain myself through analogies but *shrugs*

 

He doesnt have to be. He just needs to be Zach Wilson. There can be more than one franchise QB in a draft. I think it is clear that in the majority Wilson has solidly separated himself from the others after Lawrence.

Lawrence does not necessarily have an easier path than Wilson either. Lawrence played in a college type offense where he was not asked to do a whole lot. 

Wilson ran a complex pro style offense efficiently, and is both experienced at being under center and throwing with play action.

But it is also possible for a year or two that Wilson could be behind Fields because of his running ability.

This could be the next great QB draft. Just think of them all becoming elite.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, hawk said:

I am not a fan of drafting a kid who has had shoulder surgery on his throwing arm, and with that said, I admit I don't know anything else about him.   

He has obviously garnered some recognition though.  

San Fransico has already made a big splash with all indication for a QB.  Is it plausible the Jets could make a move with them for #3 and Jimmy Garappalo.

I am not advocating JG, but has run the offense we are probably going to be running.  Grab Pitts or Sewell at #3 possibly another offensive playmaker at 23.  Let JG and Darnold compete for starting QB.  

Don't know why anyone would think that is plausible. Did you see Steve Young's comments. It put the Jets at close to 100% taking Wilson. Young really really wants Zach to be a 49er but he does not see how it happens. Only way it does not happen is if the Jets take Wilson. And they will.

I am thinking that a procedure done 2 years ago, when he has the biggest arm in the draft was probably a success, and Brees played for 15 years after a horrific labrum and shoulder separation. And the Jets will do an exhaustive physical.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

Honestly, I agree.  Personally, I’d rather hold onto Sam and try and package him with 23 to move up in the draft.

Yes I think a pick swap is a much better way to use Darnold. I would really like the Jets to get to 8. It makes a lot of sense. They get a one year trial on Darnold, keep a #1 this year and get a 2 or 3 next year for additional ammo to get Watson or another QB if needed.

[doitny]

we argue all the time about .. sam must be traded, vs sam can stay and backup wilson.

im not here to argue again.

just to point out that it has never been done is recent history that a team puts there high QB pick into a QB competition. 

my guess is that every NFL team thinks it would be stupid to put there prized young rookie QB in that sort of situation from day 1.

so there waiting JD out. they know sam cant be on this team by training camp. and JD is hoping someone caves into his demands. maybe a QB goes down with a injury and he can get his price. but you can bet your house sam will not be here next year.