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2021 NFL Draft Mega-thread: News, Rumors, and Discussion


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2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Dude it makes total sense to build the offense over the defense at this point in time.

- New Qb after getting the last one stomped into the turf

- Offensive league

- Have favoured D in the draft  for 10 years

- We favoured defense in free agency again as usual

Will I want offense again next year?  Yes

Rex, Bowles, now Saleh we want to over build their side of the ball

Dude, I've been preaching offense first since way before it was popular, but now the pendulum has swung so far the other way that I need to preach moderation. 

The bold, IMHO, is the worst argument for your case. From the last decade of favoring defense, only Quinnen Williams remains. Leo and Jamal traded for two first, two thirds, and a fifth. Lee, Pryor, Milliner, Richardson, Coples, Wilkerson - all gone. Is it so bad if they use one of those first rounders on a defensive player who's the BAP on their board? Yeah, I say no. It's not like all that crappy drafting stocked the defensive side of the ball, it was just crappy drafting that happened to take place on that side of the ball. 

You're negatively projecting on Saleh based on past performance, IMO. They went heavy offense last year and are primed to do so again, and you're prematurely upset about maybe one of their first three picks going defense. I'm pretty happy about the offensive staff he brought with him, unlike the afterthoughts on the other side of the ball that we've had from previous head coaches. 

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Oh man, @joewilly12 is gonna poop his depends.

I'm getting a little sick of seeing 100 different topics being created to discuss pretty much the same thing, so I figured make a thread where it can all go down in one spot, separate from the FA thre

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17 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

@Beerfish The way I see it, Rex Ryan built an excellent D around the idea of a lockdown CB in Revis and then manufacturing a pass rush with schemes.  Saleh will be the polar opposite.  He will generate an organic pass rush with 4 guys and then scheme the coverage and the secondary.

 

That's fine I think Saleh's good and the D will be good but a big thing rex had was a top notch oline and running game.

I bet that if Rex was coach the jets would not have picked D'Brick AND mangold back to back.

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

That's fine I think Saleh's good and the D will be good but a big thing rex had was a top notch oline and running game.

I bet that if Rex was coach the jets would not have picked D'Brick AND mangold back to back.

Agree 100%.  We're lucky Brick and Mangold were already here.  I said this in another thread but Rex aside from Sanchez Rex took something like 6 defenders in Round 1 during his tenure.

But just because I can't resist, here's more on the Saleh and the LEO.  It's the straw that stirs the drink on D.  Look at the list on the bottom.  That's why the Jets made Carl Lawson their #1 priority in Free Agency.  It's also why guys like Kyle Phillips, JFM, the earlier mentioned Henry Anderson, etc. are simply not a fit....

 

The 49ers on Wednesday announced the signing of defensive lineman Dee Ford to a five-year extension after acquiring him in a trade from the Kansas City Chiefs for a second-round draft pick in 2020.Repeat, the 49ers announced the signing of defensive lineman Dee Ford.

During his five seasons in Kansas City, Ford was an outside linebacker in a 3-4 defensive scheme. All indications are Ford will be the “leo” in the 49ers’ 4-3 defensive alignment.

His job: Get after the quarterback.

Ford did his job exceptionally well last season, recording 13 sacks and forcing seven fumbles. Outside of defensive tackle DeForest Buckner, the 49ers lacked a consistent pass rush. The 49ers, as a team, generated just seven takeaways on the season – the worst mark in the history of the National Football League.

Coach Kyle Shanahan hired Robert Saleh to implement the Seattle-style defense with the 49ers. It’s a 4-3 defense with essentially 3-4 personnel. The leo position is based on the elephant edge-rusher spot that George Seifert used with the 49ers in the 1980s and ‘90s.

Ford fits the height-weight prototype to play the leo position. The 49ers had little consistency at that position in the first two seasons with Saleh as defensive coordinator. Last year, Solomon Thomas mostly started at leo, but he either left the field on passing downs or moved inside to defensive tackle in nickel situations.

 

Ford is likely being counted upon to be an every-down leo – the pass-rusher the 49ers have lacked since Aldon Smith’s departure.

Here is how Ford height and weight compare to a list of players Saleh cited in 2017 as prototypical edge rushers at the leo position:

Dee Ford 6-foot-2, 252 pounds
Chris Clemons 6-3, 260
Cliff Avril 6-3, 260
Yannick Ngakoue 6-2, 246
Dante Fowler 6-3, 255
Vic Beasley 6-3, 246
Von Miller 6-3, 250
Khalil Mack 6-3, 252

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5 minutes ago, football guy said:

I'm becoming cautiously optimistic the Jets will navigate a way to land OL Alijah Vera-Tucker. Unlike Douglas to prioritize interior OL in the first-round, but I think the man is hellbent on solving this unit once and for all. 

Also credit to Connor Hughes if it does play out the way he suggested in his mock (trade up for him). I really do think a scenario exists where the Jets move up a few spots for him

How high do they need to move, 15-16?

and what’s it going to cost 

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15 minutes ago, football guy said:

I'm becoming cautiously optimistic the Jets will navigate a way to land OL Alijah Vera-Tucker. Unlike Douglas to prioritize interior OL in the first-round, but I think the man is hellbent on solving this unit once and for all. 

Also credit to Connor Hughes if it does play out the way he suggested in his mock (trade up for him). I really do think a scenario exists where the Jets move up a few spots for him

Damn I would hate that, don't even think he's worth a first rounder let alone trade up for him.

If a trade is made i hope is for Slater or one of the top WRs

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21 minutes ago, football guy said:

I'm becoming cautiously optimistic the Jets will navigate a way to land OL Alijah Vera-Tucker. Unlike Douglas to prioritize interior OL in the first-round, but I think the man is hellbent on solving this unit once and for all. 

Also credit to Connor Hughes if it does play out the way he suggested in his mock (trade up for him). I really do think a scenario exists where the Jets move up a few spots for him

Costing? Our second 3rd?

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@Beerfish I'd suggest watching the whole thing but particularly the question asked at 1:38 and how Saleh really, really opens up about his thinking regarding defense and scheme, and what he looks for.  HIs philosophy is cool.  If you want to know this coach...just listen to when he says, "It's real simple.  The league back in the day.... "

I'd listen at least through 7:43.  In fact, the single most important thing that gives me insight is when the reporter asks, "So this defense needs an elite piece like that (meaning a LEO)?" and Saleh spills the beans by saying "Oh yeah" with a big smile, but then he tries to backtrack and says something like, "I wouldn't say need but yeah, we'll get one"  They drafted Nick Bosa a year later and still signed Dee Ford.

If the opportunity is there I 100% guarantee the Jets are going Edge/LEO here early in Saleh's tenure.

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Adoni Beast said:

Costing? Our second 3rd?

I would assume it would cost at least #66 to move up around 4-5 spots.

And I doubt that Douglas wants to give up any picks in 2022. He’s made a concerted effort to acquire them, and rightfully so.

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19 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said:

How high do they need to move, 15-16?

and what’s it going to cost 

AVT is definitely on the Cardinal's list at #16 if they don't like any of the CBs or WRs there.

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Next year you’ll be crying for offense again, probably OL, I guarantee it  

Jets went offense in the first two rounds last year, and are obviously going offense #2 overall this year. I’ll be shocked if they don’t take offense with at least one of #23 & 34, and they will probably, once again, have an offensive dominated draft like they did last year when they took offense over defense 5 players to three. 

The roster isn’t going to be completed with this year’s draft. The most optimistic takes have the Jets near .500 (my glass not being nearly that full). What they should be doing is looking at it like a two year plan, knowing all the picks they have early next year. In other words, there’s no reason to force an offensive pick if a defender is sitting there that both fits a need and is their BAP at that spot. If they pass on -say- a starting caliber CB for a developmental OL, that’s a roster weakening move. You take the BAP, especially early when there’s a clearer gap between prospects. You force the position picks later when the grades are closer (if you have to). 
 
You and @FidelioJet are probably setting yourselves up for anger and sadness if you truly believe the sky is falling if the Jets take a defender before the third round. 

If I were the Johnsons and JD took defense at 23 he wouldn’t be making the pick at 34. 
And if he he took defense at 34 he wouldn’t be picking 66.  
it will be a clear indication that he’s lost and lacks a basic a understanding of how to build an NFL football team.  
might as well fire him then because the outcome is inevitable.  

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2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

We have no corners, we do not even have 5 half assed olineman, the largest position group there is, and one in which you do not rotate.  We have no solid Rb, no reliable TE, medium Wr group and are worreid about getting Saleh a 6th or 7th dline because he likes to rotate.  for ocne can we let the D genius coach actually coach his side of the ball up?

Our offense has been a back hole for years and we seem to want to repeat the same mistakes over and over and over again.

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said:

How high do they need to move, 15-16?

and what’s it going to cost 

 

11 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Costing? Our second 3rd?

For a long time I've felt that AVT would be long gone, and felt that he would ultimately land in Minnesota at 14. There's a scenario that some see unfolding where both LAC/MIN land the top 2 tackles (Sewell, Slater), resulting in him falling within range. I don't know what the price would be to move up or anything like that, but I would expect the Jets would be willing to move into that 17-21 range.  

The whole "guard" label could depress his suitors if he makes it past 14, and by the sounds of it, that can very well happen. Agent friend pointed out how David DeCastro was a sure-fire top 15 pick until he wasn't

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If we get Jenkins or AVT at 23, I think we should seriously consider moving down from 34.

That pick will be very valuable and teams will have all of Thursday night and Friday morning to broker a deal.

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34 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

If I were the Johnsons and JD took defense at 23 he wouldn’t be making the pick at 34. 
And if he he took defense at 34 he wouldn’t be picking 66.  
it will be a clear indication that he’s lost and lacks a basic a understanding of how to build an NFL football team.  
might as well fire him then because the outcome is inevitable.  

Extremism is nowhere. - Joe Strummer

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2 hours ago, football guy said:

I’m still really intrigued by Carolina. I think back to my source there (who has not answered a goddamn thing since the Darnold trade) saying “Pitts, Farley, maybe Fields” about 2 months ago now. 

Since then we’ve pretty much learned Pitts won’t be there, and Farley had back surgery. We’ve still seen really noteworthy journalists link Fields to them despite trading for Darnold, with Albert Breer saying that ownership is totally on board with throwing resources at the QB position. At the same time, it could just be an elaborate ploy to get someone to trade up. And if that’s the case, maybe teams just call their bluff and see if CAR is serious about taking a QB. 

I’m keeping an eye on New England. If they can swing a trade for #8 by sending say #15, #46, and CB Stephon Gilmore, it totally opens up Carolina’s draft possibilities plus lands them a corner. At #15, they can go a variety of directions and even consider drafting Farley if they aren’t turned off by his medicals. The question is how much does NE really like Fields, if at all... wouldn’t be the first time people came away shocked if they just outright passed an opportunity to get him. If not NE, will CHI ownership green-light a trade (I doubt they would if it included a future 1st)? Would WAS move up? Crazy scenarios to consider 

The other thing I'll add to this: Atlanta is the wildcard for Fields, and boy that would be wild. Reason why I mention them: at the end of the day, the owner has final say in every organization. No one else. And while I've heard the reports that "Arthur Blank won't interfere", that almost makes me feel like he could do the opposite. Peter King mentioned that Arthur Blank is fascinated with the QBs in this class, and Blank himself mentioned the prospect of having a situation like KC (Alex Smith-to-Pat Mahomes) in Atlanta is very attractive to them back in February. Maybe Lance would be their guy (as Mort said), but I think there would be more of a draw to take Fields from other wings of the building. 

Not saying this will happen, but they're the one team where I can see in the top 7 basically throwing everything out and caving to the owner. 

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1 minute ago, football guy said:

The other thing I'll add to this: Atlanta is the wildcard for Fields, and boy that would be wild. Reason why I mention them: at the end of the day, the owner has final say in every organization. No one else. And while I've heard the reports that "Arthur Blank won't interfere", that almost makes me feel like he could do the opposite. Peter King mentioned that Arthur Blank is fascinated with the QBs in this class, and Blank himself mentioned the prospect of having a situation like KC (Alex Smith-to-Pat Mahomes) in Atlanta is very attractive to them back in February. Maybe Lance would be their guy (as Mort said), but I think there would be more of a draw to take Fields from other wings of the building. 

Not saying this will happen, but they're the one team where I can see in the top 7 basically throwing everything out and caving to the owner. 

I think atlanta will take a qb, and for all we know it could be jones who could well be the next Matt Ryan anyway.  It’s just too hard to be in the right draft position the right year to have that shot at qbs you like, and regardless of Ryan’s cap situation the next 2 years, his play has declined and will only get worse.  And i think cincy could be in an enviable spot at 5 if qbs go 1-4.

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i'm not going to pretend to be an insider or have any real sources.  

what i can offer is a story told to me by the cousin, who's boss is close with tepper (hedge fund guys).  and tepper told his boss "i didn't pay $2.2 billion to watch teddy bridgewater play QB"

now maybe sam settles tepper's desire to land a QB.  maybe not.

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14 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

i'm not going to pretend to be an insider or have any real sources.  

what i can offer is a story told to me by the cousin, who's boss is close with tepper (hedge fund guys).  and tepper told his boss "i didn't pay $2.2 billion to watch teddy bridgewater play QB"

now maybe sam settles tepper's desire to land a QB.  maybe not.

I believe you wholeheartedly. The question is whether is Tepper satisfied with Darnold as a short-term option with long-term potential; and if not, does he want them to (a) draft another QB this year; or (b) hold out for Deshaun Watson in future years?

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17 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I think atlanta will take a qb, and for all we know it could be jones who could well be the next Matt Ryan anyway.  It’s just too hard to be in the right draft position the right year to have that shot at qbs you like, and regardless of Ryan’s cap situation the next 2 years, his play has declined and will only get worse.  And i think cincy could be in an enviable spot at 5 if qbs go 1-4.

It's a tough call. I can see Pitts, I can see QB. It doesn't help that they've been among the more quiet organizations out there

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19 minutes ago, slats said:

Extremism is nowhere. - Joe Strummer

It would be extremism to take defense.  

The defense already had more talent and has been upgraded far more than the offense this off-season 

It would be beyond extreme to take defense, it would simply be stupid and it would be clear that JD would eventually fail.

You Can't Fix Stupid - Ron White

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11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It would be extremism to take defense.  

The defense already had more talent and has been upgraded far more than the offense this off-season 

It would be beyond extreme to take defense, it would simply be stupid and it would be clear that JD would eventually fail.

You Can't Fix Stupid - Ron White

Genuine question, do you think Joe Douglas is going to draft the way you want him to?

And as a hypothetical follow up, let’s say you knew that one of the picks at 23/34/66 was going to be defense before you knew what he was going to do with pick 2. Would you still feel taking the quarterback was the right move with the second pick, or do you think the situation would end up too bad and they should do something else - take a position player or trade down - and take a shot at a QB next year?

What if you knew two of the picks at 23/34/66 would be defense?

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36 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It would be extremism to take defense.  

The defense already had more talent and has been upgraded far more than the offense this off-season 

It would be beyond extreme to take defense, it would simply be stupid and it would be clear that JD would eventually fail.

You Can't Fix Stupid - Ron White

So, for the record, your position is that if Joe Douglas uses one of his second two draft picks on a defensive player, he should be fired on the spot because he knows nothing about football. I have that right? 

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NFL Nation Mock Draft has the Jets landing Wilson and AVT with Etienne falling into the second round. If that’s the case Thursday night we will all be very happy

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5 minutes ago, slats said:

So, for the record, your position is that if Joe Douglas uses one of his second two draft picks on a defensive player, he should be fired on the spot because he knows nothing about football. I have that right? 

Eddie Murphy Barbershop GIF by Amazon Prime Video

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On 4/26/2021 at 11:48 AM, Integrity28 said:

Yep. 100% with you on this.

Etienne and/or Najee are luxury picks for a team as piss poor as ours. 

I'd only start considering RB in late round 3, and ONLY IF we manage to bag a QB, at least 1 OL, and either a CB, WR or an EDGE before we pick RB. Frankly, even as I type this I hate the idea. Too many holes, we have a stable RB group - add to it from round 4 on, perhaps.

 

Couldn't disagree more.  Harris or Etienne are value picks if @#34 if he chooses IOL @#23.  We need to solidify the OL and the RB room.  Both current groups are seriously below par.  Staring ZW or another rookie at QB requires a commitment to the running game but also needs backs who can catch the ball out of the backfield.  Harris and Etienne fill this need.  There is other ways to accomplish this...drafting Williams or Carter or Sermon with a later pick but JD needs to re-vitalize the stable of backs as well as solidify the OL.  If only to take pressure off the QB we select at #2.

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2 hours ago, Obrien2Toon said:

How high do they need to move, 15-16?

and what’s it going to cost 

I’ve done a boatload of those mock drafts on various sites and ALL of the top OL (Slater, Sewell, Tucker , Darrisaw, Jenkins) are gone by 20. JD will have to trade up to grab his target - Tucker or Jenkins.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

If I were the Johnsons and JD took defense at 23 he wouldn’t be making the pick at 34. 
And if he he took defense at 34 he wouldn’t be picking 66.  
it will be a clear indication that he’s lost and lacks a basic a understanding of how to build an NFL football team.  
might as well fire him then because the outcome is inevitable.  

If the draft breaks where nine OL are picked before #23 and the only OL left is 'developmental' then you take the best WR, TE or RB and go OL with #34 and #66. Jets offensive line is that bad and it must be addressed in both this years and next years draft with high picks.

Let Salah coach up the defense using last years picks and the FA signings.

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A few more days then we don’t have to listen to who they’re going to draft and we get to listen to how the 5th round division two players is the next huge steal and they got 7 starters and 3 pro bowlers. Oh yay

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7 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

A few more days then we don’t have to listen to who they’re going to draft and we get to listen to how the 5th round division two players is the next huge steal and they got 7 starters and 3 pro bowlers. Oh yay

That’s not great but it’s still better than this.

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27 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

NFL Nation Mock Draft has the Jets landing Wilson and AVT with Etienne falling into the second round. If that’s the case Thursday night we will all be very happy

As would I

And I’ve been saying for months that we shouldn’t touch a RB before Round 3 at the earliest.

But Wilson, AVT and Etienne with 7 additional picks this year alone?

Yeah, I’ll take that.

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