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2021 NFL Draft Mega-thread: News, Rumors, and Discussion


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10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I didn’t want to start a new thread, but the next time some announcer says that the Dolphins are a well-run team, remember this:

 

 They are still a well run team

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Oh man, @joewilly12 is gonna poop his depends.

I'm getting a little sick of seeing 100 different topics being created to discuss pretty much the same thing, so I figured make a thread where it can all go down in one spot, separate from the FA thre

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28 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

There is other ways to accomplish this...drafting Williams or Carter or Sermon with a later pick

Ive seen all these guys projected R3 or later, which is all I’m saying... I feel like you actually do agree.

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16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I didn’t want to start a new thread, but the next time some announcer says that the Dolphins are a well-run team, remember this:

 

Just a matter of time for Tua to be gone too

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Just now, Integrity28 said:

Ive seen all these guys projected R3 or later, which is all I’m saying... I feel like you actually do agree.

Where have you seen J. Williams 3rd round or later ?

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1 hour ago, BigRy56 said:

NFL Nation Mock Draft has the Jets landing Wilson and AVT with Etienne falling into the second round. If that’s the case Thursday night we will all be very happy

Wow. 

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3 hours ago, football guy said:

 

For a long time I've felt that AVT would be long gone, and felt that he would ultimately land in Minnesota at 14. There's a scenario that some see unfolding where both LAC/MIN land the top 2 tackles (Sewell, Slater), resulting in him falling within range. I don't know what the price would be to move up or anything like that, but I would expect the Jets would be willing to move into that 17-21 range.  

The whole "guard" label could depress his suitors if he makes it past 14, and by the sounds of it, that can very well happen. Agent friend pointed out how David DeCastro was a sure-fire top 15 pick until he wasn't

AVT's arm length and guard status are definitely a big deal. He was put in a bunch of mocks as a LT which is not going to happen. 

In my mind there is certainly a scenerio where Jenkins is taken before AVT. Bears, Vegas and Colts need a tackle. Who needs a guard that bad? Furthermore not many people normally take guards that high. 

If the Vikings don't take AVT I think he falls to us. 

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I have no insider info on this, just me having a feeling but I really think we are going to wait to pick linemam until the 3rd. That we take qb and other play makers but the line gets built this year with two rookies.

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8 hours ago, football guy said:

I’m still really intrigued by Carolina. I think back to my source there (who has not answered a goddamn thing since the Darnold trade) saying “Pitts, Farley, maybe Fields” about 2 months ago now. 

Since then we’ve pretty much learned Pitts won’t be there, and Farley had back surgery. We’ve still seen really noteworthy journalists link Fields to them despite trading for Darnold, with Albert Breer saying that ownership is totally on board with throwing resources at the QB position. At the same time, it could just be an elaborate ploy to get someone to trade up. And if that’s the case, maybe teams just call their bluff and see if CAR is serious about taking a QB. 

I’m keeping an eye on New England. If they can swing a trade for #8 by sending say #15, #46, and CB Stephon Gilmore, it totally opens up Carolina’s draft possibilities plus lands them a corner. At #15, they can go a variety of directions and even consider drafting Farley if they aren’t turned off by his medicals. The question is how much does NE really like Fields, if at all... wouldn’t be the first time people came away shocked if they just outright passed an opportunity to get him. If not NE, will CHI ownership green-light a trade (I doubt they would if it included a future 1st)? Would WAS move up? Crazy scenarios to consider 

I think if Fields gets to 14 with Minnesota the Bears would trade up ahead of the Patriots and give up their 2nd. It's a lot for that move but within the division they will pay a premium to make that move. Minnesota can move back and still grab an offensive lineman at 20.

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8 hours ago, johnnysd said:

He said that there were only 2 QBs they like in the draft and if they were picking 3 they would have stuck with Sam. Coupled will all the other tings about Zach it is pretty obvious Fields is not one of them

JD did not say that.  These are his actual quotes from his is conference. First he said, "If our pick was a little later we wouldn't be having this discussion". Then towards the end of the press conference he said, "... if we were picking 12, 13, 14 we wouldn't be having this conversation". That to me means he would have taken possibly all of the Rookie QBs over keeping Darnold. One thing it def doesn't say is that the only 2 he would have selected over keeping Darnold were Lawrence and Wilson. 

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10 minutes ago, choon328 said:

JD did not say that.  These are his actual quotes from his is conference. First he said, "If our pick was a little later we wouldn't be having this discussion". Then towards the end of the press conference he said, "... if we were picking 12, 13, 14 we wouldn't be having this conversation". That to me means he would have taken possibly all of the Rookie QBs over keeping Darnold. One thing it def doesn't say is that the only 2 he would have selected over keeping Darnold were Lawrence and Wilson. 

Thank you for this, tired of Darnold truthers trying to rewrite history 

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16 minutes ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

Agree. Dolphins will have all the weaponzzz, but no QB. 

IF Tua doesn't pan out, they will look back at this draft with great regret.  

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9 hours ago, slats said:

So, for the record, your position is that if Joe Douglas uses one of his second two draft picks on a defensive player, he should be fired on the spot because he knows nothing about football. I have that right? 

Yes. 

Well, not that he doesn’t know anything about football, but does lack the basic fundamentals necessary to build a modern NFL roster. Much like Mac and Idzik before him. 

Therefore his failure is inevitable so we should move on sooner than later.  

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8 hours ago, Lurker89 said:

Lol, love you bro, but this take is so ridiculously strong I can't help but laugh....

I'm with you, I want nothing but O with our first 4 picks but if a great prospect falls to 23 and we Go O, D, O, O, O.... taking O in rounds 1,2, 3, and 4 with our 1B going to D  I won't be upset... But you will be calling for JDs Head. I almost want it to go down that way to watch you have a tantrum and try justify it. It would a boon for my draft night experience.

My position is clearly justified. See post above.  
The point is, I’m not firing him for the fact of that pick alone. I’m firing him because it would eminently clear to me that he’s incapable of doing the job properly.  
So why waste three more years watching him fail?  Acknowledge your mistake in hiring him and try again to find the right guy.  
You have a new QB and can’t afford to not develop him properly. Bring  in a GM that understands this before it’s too late and we’ve wasted another QB.  
 

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

My position is clearly justified. See post above.  
The point is, I’m not firing him for the fact of that pick alone. I’m firing him because it would eminently clear to me that he’s incapable of doing the job properly.  
So why waste three more years watching him fail?  Acknowledge your mistake in hiring him and try again to find the right guy.  
You have a new QB and can’t afford to not develop him properly. Bring  in a GM that understands this before it’s too late and we’ve wasted another QB.  
 

"doing the job properly" per your definition of same.  LOL.

Taking a lower graded offensive prospect over a much higher graded one in a defensive position of great need would be grounds for firing.  What you are suggesting is an unbendable script based on one fan's frustration.

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2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

"doing the job properly" per your definition of same.  LOL.

Taking a lower graded offensive prospect over a much higher graded one in a defensive position of great need would be grounds for firing.  What you are suggesting is an unbendable script based on one fan's frustration.

What’s he suggesting is basically a 6th grade reading level version of “I don’t want to eat my broccoli”.

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37 minutes ago, slats said:

Taking a defensive player with one high pick when you have three in the top 34 and six in the top 107 is hardly not developing a QB properly. 

This "the only thing that matters is the QB" myopia is what leads to building the 2020 Houston Texans, where the QB has nothing short of an MVP type season, but the team is 4-12 because the defense blows. People like to talk about everything that was in place for Mark Sanchez' arrival -the OL, the running game- but the #1 asset he had on that team was the #1 defense in the NFL. The pressure was never on him to have to score 30 points a game. 

I want a well rounded football team. I don't want Zach Wilson feeling the need to score 30 points a week. The NFL is going to be enough of an adjustment for him. He's not gonna be playing in blowouts in his favor week after week, he's going to be in losses and grinds and it would be great for his development if his defense could help him turn a few of those grinds into wins. That's how you develop confidence on the field. 

Having the franchise QB is a critical component, but it's not the end game. The end game is a championship. You need a complete team for one of those, and you shouldn't be putting off building a complete team for just one part of the puzzle. In this league you have to be able to throw the football, and you have to be able to stop the other team from throwing the football. It's really that simple, and Joe Douglas should be adding players that work towards those two goals. 

The Texans fell apart because they had a dope of a coach that became a GM. 

They developed Watson into a top 5 QB by doing what they did. Had Watson not turned out to be, well whatever he is - they would have had another 15 years of him producing at a high level with a chance to win a Super Bowl EVERY YEAR.  If they continued to focus on defense in his early years - he may or may not have developed.  That's the point.

Having a franchise QB is the single most important thing in all of sports.  There isn't a close second.  

Look, I understand the balanced team concept, I really do - and normally I'm all for it...but like everything in life circumstances matter. 

Right now it's not about winning and losing games - they'll be plenty of time for that.  It's about developing your QB - nothing and I mean nothing else should matter.  The life span of an NFL QB is 15 to 20 years.  You have time.  Developing a franchise is the end-game of phase 1.  Once you have one - you can move to phase two - building a championship caliber team around him, but until you have that franchise QB you're just spinning in circles.

Worry about the defense two years from now when you Wilson's ready to carry the team.  Throw him to the wolves now, like we did Darnold, and we'll be back here again in 3 years.  New GM, new HC , rookie QB and our fans calling for drafting defense.

I'm advocating for a long-term approach to what's in the best interest of the franchise over the next 20 years - not to be short sighted.  You're risking the future of our new QB - to win 8 games next year instead of 5.

Honestly, As a football fan, I have never felt more strongly about anything than I do this.  For me, it's entirely irrational to see it any other way.  

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Dcat said:

"doing the job properly" per your definition of same.  LOL.

Taking a lower graded offensive prospect over a much higher graded one in a defensive position of great need would be grounds for firing.  What you are suggesting is an unbendable script based on one fan's frustration.

Wrong.

If there's such value at CB or whatever defensive position there - that we can't turn it down because there's no offensive player that's worthy and the defensive player value is sooooo much better - then surely they'll be trade partners banging down our door, no?

I say, trade down, accumulate more picks and continue to build the offense.

As a fan I'm frustrated for sure - but my position is quite logical.  It's not a permanent strategy,  just a two year plan while you're trying to develop a franchise QB.

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4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Honestly, As a football fan, I have never felt more strongly about anything than I do this.  For me, it's entirely irrational to see it any other way.  

And I see it as entirely irrational to argue that taking a defensive player this year at #23 or #34 is a clear sign that the GM doesn't understand how to build a football team. IMHO, taking a RB high over an Edge or CB rated similarly would be a much clearer sign of not understanding how to build a football team. 

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

If there's such value at CB or whatever defensive position there - that we can't turn it down because there's no offensive player that's worthy and the defensive player value is sooooo much better - then surely they'll be trade partners banging down our door, no?

If Zach Wilson is all that and a bag of chips, why wasn't anyone banging down the door for the #2 pick in the draft? Sometimes trades aren't available, no matter how much you want one, and you have to pick a player in a spot. Do you force that pick for some perceived need? Or do you take the top player on your board? I'd argue to take the top player -particularly high- every single time. 

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42 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

 

Fonzie_jumps_the_shark.png.3671487100decf3c6f7276bebcfe31ba.png

You've jumped the shark.... I think you're smarter than this. 

Maybe you're just an eloquent imbecile.  😘

Question for you...

If you knew then what you know now,  would you have fired Mac after his second year?

Or do you give him an extra 4 years anyway?

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Dcat said:

"doing the job properly" per your definition of same.  LOL.

Taking a lower graded offensive prospect over a much higher graded one in a defensive position of great need would be grounds for firing.  What you are suggesting is an unbendable script based on one fan's frustration.

The more I look at this draft the more I’m coming away thinking it will be a defensive player at 23.   The O-line guys will be there at 34 and in 3rd round as well.  

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1 minute ago, slats said:

And I see it as entirely irrational to argue that taking a defensive player this year at #23 or #34 is a clear sign that the GM doesn't understand how to build a football team. IMHO, taking a RB high over an Edge or CB rated similarly would be a much clearer sign of not understanding how to build a football team. 

Can I just add that rationality has no real place in what @FidelioJet is talking about? 

There are myriad ways to cook a steak. Suggesting that boiling it is the ONLY rational way, isn’t rational. It’s just an ill-informed opinion being over-rationalized for some emotional purpose or another.

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1 minute ago, Obrien2Toon said:

For the gamblers 

Fields pick 7.5 

over +120

seems like easy money right now 

I’m not buying the slide. That said, I’m not putting $$$ on it either.

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1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

The more I look at this draft the more I’m coming away thinking it will be a defensive player at 23.   The O-line guys will be there at 34 and in 3rd round as well.  

Not only that, but i think douglas trades back from 23 if he can.  There’s enough OL at 34 to come away with a quality player.  I also think edge is more likely than cb in the late first round, and that rb rumors are just that, rumors.  Edge late first, OL at 34 and then you’re looking at slot wrs/cb/rb in rounds 3 and 4.

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2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

The more I look at this draft the more I’m coming away thinking it will be a defensive player at 23.   The O-line guys will be there at 34 and in 3rd round as well.  

The draft is definitely deeper at OL, and IOL specifically is proven to be found in mid-rounds. 

It all comes down to how the board falls, IMO. React to what happens. Have several scenarios prepared. These guys arguing you “have to” do this or that with black/white certainty 1.) have no clue, 2.) are the guys that get sniped in fantasy drafts because they target 1 guy and then need an extra 5 minutes for their pick and ruin it for everyone.

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10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I didn’t want to start a new thread, but the next time some announcer says that the Dolphins are a well-run team, remember this:

 

Last year those chose Tua over Herbert. 

This year they could have had Pitts. Maybe they will get lucky and get Chase. But theres also a chance they are staring at 160 pound Devonta Smith or a Slot WR(Waddle) which could be a catastrophic fail. 

Outside of the Tunsil trade I am not seeing the magic here. 

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32 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Wrong.

If there's such value at CB or whatever defensive position there - that we can't turn it down because there's no offensive player that's worthy and the defensive player value is sooooo much better - then surely they'll be trade partners banging down our door, no?

I say, trade down, accumulate more picks and continue to build the offense.

As a fan I'm frustrated for sure - but my position is quite logical.  It's not a permanent strategy,  just a two year plan while you're trying to develop a franchise QB.

2: R1 P2 QB Zach Wilson - BYU
23: R1 P23 WR Ja’Marr Chase - LSU
34: R2 P2 LB Zaven Collins - Tulsa
66: R3 P2 EDGE Ronnie Perkins - Oklahoma
86: R3 P22 OT Robert Hainsey - Notre Dame
107: R4 P2 OT Stone Forsythe - Florida
146: R5 P2 CB Ambry Thomas - Michigan
154: R5 P10 TE Tre McKitty - Georgia
186: R6 P2 C Michal Menet - Penn St.
226: R6 P42 CB Robert Rochell - Central Arkansas
 
Just to annoy you!
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6 hours ago, choon328 said:

JD did not say that.  These are his actual quotes from his is conference. First he said, "If our pick was a little later we wouldn't be having this discussion". Then towards the end of the press conference he said, "... if we were picking 12, 13, 14 we wouldn't be having this conversation". That to me means he would have taken possibly all of the Rookie QBs over keeping Darnold. One thing it def doesn't say is that the only 2 he would have selected over keeping Darnold were Lawrence and Wilson. 

He later confirmed with Adam Schefter, Albert Breer, and the nyjets.com reporter (forget his name) that they probably wouldn't have traded Sam if they were picking 3rd. Daniel Jeremiah and Todd McShay, both of whom are close friends of his, have said the same on their podcasts. 

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