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2021 NFL Draft Mega-thread: News, Rumors, and Discussion


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6 hours ago, choon328 said:

I think if Fields gets to 14 with Minnesota the Bears would trade up ahead of the Patriots and give up their 2nd. It's a lot for that move but within the division they will pay a premium to make that move. Minnesota can move back and still grab an offensive lineman at 20.

Would Minnesota trade with Chicago though? 

I think the sweet spot for Chicago is 12. Chicago and Philadelphia have already become accustomed to one-another via their lengthy trade discussions RE: Carson Wentz. Howie Roseman is ultra-aggressive and loves trading. He's toying with moving into the top 10 but if he can't, I think he'll look to move down. Conversely, if the QB Chicago liked made it out of the top 10, then the price to move up would be less than a future 1st, in which case I don't think getting a green-light from George McCaskey (team Chairmen) would be as difficult...

Some people cite how they were prepared to get aggressive for Russell Wilson and Deshaun Watson, so they're going to be aggressive in the draft. I don't think so. Wilson and Watson are bonafide starters that won't disrupt your coaching/GM search if they were on the roster. If you mortgage a ton for an unproven player and it all implodes, then you have problems. I don't think they'll get the green-light to trade future 1st's for an unproven player, I do think they will be green-lit if it involves current picks and a future 2nd. 

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17 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Not only that, but i think douglas trades back from 23 if he can.  There’s enough OL at 34 to come away with a quality player.  I also think edge is more likely than cb in the late first round, and that rb rumors are just that, rumors.  Edge late first, OL at 34 and then you’re looking at slot wrs/cb/rb in rounds 3 and 4.

I think Edge or LB is a possibility at 23.  I know people will hate it but, I wouldn’t be shocked to see Jamin Davis or Zaven Collins selected at 23.   

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28 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Wrong.

If there's such value at CB or whatever defensive position there - that we can't turn it down because there's no offensive player that's worthy and the defensive player value is sooooo much better - then surely they'll be trade partners banging down our door, no?

I say, trade down, accumulate more picks and continue to build the offense.

As a fan I'm frustrated for sure - but my position is quite logical.  It's not a permanent strategy,  just a two year plan while you're trying to develop a franchise QB.

this is just stupid. Foregoing potential star players for scrubs.  Good luck with that.  Mike Maccagnan II

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Hey, does anyone have a link(s) for a live stream of the draft? It's probably too early, but I figured I would set myself up for a pre-emptive strike for disappointment. Not disappointment that no-one will PM me and set me up, but that I'll be disappointed in the pick. However, I will not be the least bit disappointed if the Jets go in the exact opposite direction that people think, haha. Thanks.

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35 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Question for you...

If you knew then what you know now,  would you have fired Mac after his second year?

Or do you give him an extra 4 years anyway?

 

 

 

He should have been fired the second he took a safety with the sixth pick in the draft instead of a desperately needed QB.

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17 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I think Edge or LB is a possibility at 23.  I know people will hate it but, I wouldn’t be shocked to see Jamin Davis or Zaven Collins selected at 23.   

Taking a linebacker at 23 would be criminal. Edge rusher, receiver, or OL should be taken with that pick.

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5 minutes ago, Dcat said:

34

Perhaps, but I think both guys go in the first.  The league has trended towards these ultra athletic LBers, Davis is pretty freakish in his profile.  6’3” 240, 4.41 40.   He doesn’t have a ton of experience with games started, but I think a team is going to bite early on his athleticism.  

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20 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I think Edge or LB is a possibility at 23.  I know people will hate it but, I wouldn’t be shocked to see Jamin Davis or Zaven Collins selected at 23.   

I could easily see someone like collins as the pick, then they grab Humphrey or a RT at 34 and possibly double dip in the 3rd.  That would give 3 impact starters.

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3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes. 

Well, not that he doesn’t know anything about football, but does lack the basic fundamentals necessary to build a modern NFL roster. Much like Mac and Idzik before him. 

Therefore his failure is inevitable so we should move on sooner than later.  

 

this is idiotic.

you need to win on both sides of the ball.  sure, you need a good offense as it's less like to win with a purely dominating defense and a crap offense these days.  but the converse is true that a great offense can get shut down in the playoffs and if the defense stinks, you also aren't winning.

look at the bucs draft history.  heck, even look at the chiefs draft history.  sure it helps to have an all-world QB, but the chiefs only became elite when they started playing defense.  NE traditionally focuses on the defense in the draft.

i too want a draft with an emphasis on offense (edited from originally saying defense).  but calling for the GM to be fired on the spot if they pick a defensive player before day 3 is just plain moronic.

Edited by jetblue95
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13 minutes ago, jetophile said:

Hey, does anyone have a link(s) for a live stream of the draft? It's probably too early, but I figured I would set myself up for a pre-emptive strike for disappointment. Not disappointment that no-one will PM me and set me up, but that I'll be disappointed in the pick. However, I will not be the least bit disappointed if the Jets go in the exact opposite direction that people think, haha. Thanks.

I planned to ask this tomorrow if I couldn't figure it out myself by then. For the games, the links don't appear until an hour or so before they start, if that early. 

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22 minutes ago, jetophile said:

Hey, does anyone have a link(s) for a live stream of the draft? It's probably too early, but I figured I would set myself up for a pre-emptive strike for disappointment. Not disappointment that no-one will PM me and set me up, but that I'll be disappointed in the pick. However, I will not be the least bit disappointed if the Jets go in the exact opposite direction that people think, haha. Thanks.

I think NFL.com carries a live feed from NFL network during the draft.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

 

They developed Watson into a top 5 QB by doing what they did. Had Watson not turned out to be, well whatever he is - they would have had another 15 years of him producing at a high level with a chance to win a Super Bowl EVERY YEAR.  If they continued to focus on defense in his early years - he may or may not have developed.  That's the point.

Having a franchise QB is the single most important thing in all of sports.  There isn't a close second. 

 

 

 

except if you look at houston's draft history, there is nothing to support your argument.  they did not continue to stock up on players to surround watson at the exclusion of the defense.  although truth is the really have been poor drafters on both sides of the ball.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/draft.htm

 

and if you look further, they won more with watson when they played good defense.

in 2020, they scored 384 pts and let up 464 (4-12)

in 2019, they scored 378 pts and let up 385 (10-6 - benefit from crappy division i guess) 

in 2018, they scored 402 pts and let up 316 (11-5)

the offense remained relatively consistent in producing points.  the defense got much, much worse

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/index.htm

 

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1 hour ago, slats said:

If Zach Wilson is all that and a bag of chips, why wasn't anyone banging down the door for the #2 pick in the draft? Sometimes trades aren't available, no matter how much you want one, and you have to pick a player in a spot. Do you force that pick for some perceived need? Or do you take the top player on your board? I'd argue to take the top player -particularly high- every single time. 

By all accounts they were. 

Jets weren't listening.

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1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Can I just add that rationality has no real place in what @FidelioJet is talking about? 

There are myriad ways to cook a steak. Suggesting that boiling it is the ONLY rational way, isn’t rational. It’s just an ill-informed opinion being over-rationalized for some emotional purpose or another.

You guys just want to keep doing the same thing over and over again and then wonder why it's not working. 

It really does amaze me. 

I wish I had a good Einstein line about now.

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46 minutes ago, football guy said:

Would Minnesota trade with Chicago though? 

I think the sweet spot for Chicago is 12. Chicago and Philadelphia have already become accustomed to one-another via their lengthy trade discussions RE: Carson Wentz. Howie Roseman is ultra-aggressive and loves trading. He's toying with moving into the top 10 but if he can't, I think he'll look to move down. Conversely, if the QB Chicago liked made it out of the top 10, then the price to move up would be less than a future 1st, in which case I don't think getting a green-light from George McCaskey (team Chairmen) would be as difficult...

Some people cite how they were prepared to get aggressive for Russell Wilson and Deshaun Watson, so they're going to be aggressive in the draft. I don't think so. Wilson and Watson are bonafide starters that won't disrupt your coaching/GM search if they were on the roster. If you mortgage a ton for an unproven player and it all implodes, then you have problems. I don't think they'll get the green-light to trade future 1st's for an unproven player, I do think they will be green-lit if it involves current picks and a future 2nd. 

I think Minnesota would do it but the Bears would have to overpay by including their 2nd.

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56 minutes ago, Dcat said:
2: R1 P2 QB Zach Wilson - BYU
23: R1 P23 WR Ja’Marr Chase - LSU
34: R2 P2 LB Zaven Collins - Tulsa
66: R3 P2 EDGE Ronnie Perkins - Oklahoma
86: R3 P22 OT Robert Hainsey - Notre Dame
107: R4 P2 OT Stone Forsythe - Florida
146: R5 P2 CB Ambry Thomas - Michigan
154: R5 P10 TE Tre McKitty - Georgia
186: R6 P2 C Michal Menet - Penn St.
226: R6 P42 CB Robert Rochell - Central Arkansas
 
Just to annoy you!

Should be fired.

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25 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

this is idiotic.

you need to win on both sides of the ball.  sure, you need a good offense as it's less like to win with a purely dominating defense and a crap offense these days.  but the converse is true that a great offense can get shut down in the playoffs and if the defense stinks, you also aren't winning.

look at the bucs draft history.  heck, even look at the chiefs draft history.  sure it helps to have an all-world QB, but the chiefs only became elite when they started playing defense.  NE traditionally focuses on the defense in the draft.

i too want a draft with an emphasis on offense (edited from originally saying defense).  but calling for the GM to be fired on the spot if they pick a defensive player before day 3 is just plain moronic.

You need to first and foremost develop a QB.  Right now that should be the Jets first and only mission.  When you have that then I couldn't agree more with the philosophy of winning on both sides of the ball.

But until you have a QB you're never going to win on offense.  It's a short term strategy to solve a long term problem.

Is it ideal? Of course not.  Is it necessary? Absolutely!

 

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17 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

except if you look at houston's draft history, there is nothing to support your argument.  they did not continue to stock up on players to surround watson at the exclusion of the defense.  although truth is the really have been poor drafters on both sides of the ball.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/draft.htm

 

and if you look further, they won more with watson when they played good defense.

in 2020, they scored 384 pts and let up 464 (4-12)

in 2019, they scored 378 pts and let up 385 (10-6 - benefit from crappy division i guess) 

in 2018, they scored 402 pts and let up 316 (11-5)

the offense remained relatively consistent in producing points.  the defense got much, much worse

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/index.htm

 

Sure, they did.  They absolutely focused more resources on offense.

And if it wasn't for Watson being a creepy dude - they would be in contention for 15 years - and will be again when/if they get him back - you'll note in 2020 they did, in fact, begin to focus more on defense....

They had the right concept just not the right people in place. Draft your franchise QB - support him with everything you can for 2 to 3 years - then he should be capable of doing more with less - at which point you can focus on building a more rounded team.

The expectation that the defense was going to get worse should be there - but the expectation that you'll have a franchise QB after three years should also be there.

 

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7 minutes ago, derp said:

Which accounts/teams? I haven’t seen anything indicating that.

Let's simply look at what SF gave to get to 3.

  1. Do you honestly think they gave all of that up to get to 3 but didn't make that offer to the guys sitting at 2?
  2. And if you don't think they did, you should ask yourself why they didn't....

Well I'll give you the answers..

  1. They did make the offer and the Jets said no - it would be almost criminal negligence to not even throw it out there
  2. But if they didn't make the offer the only reason they wouldn't is because they know the Jets weren't listening.

Eagles were noted as saying if they couldn't get to 2 then they weren't interested in trading up.  They did, in fact, try to get to 2 - Jets didn't bit.

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9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Sure, they did.  They absolutely focused more resources on offense.

And if it wasn't for Watson being a creepy dude - they would be in contention for 15 years - and will be again when/if they get him back - you'll note in 2020 they did, in fact, begin to focus more on defense....

They had the right concept just not the right people in place. Draft your franchise QB - support him with everything you can for 2 to 3 years - then he should be capable of doing more with less - at which point you can focus on building a more rounded team.

The expectation that the defense was going to get worse should be there - but the expectation that you'll have a franchise QB after three years should also be there.

 

You could point to how the Cowboys handled Troy Aikman as the perfect example of this.  Aikman was a very good QB, but he probably benefited more than almost any other QB in NFL history from the talent around him.

1988 - Irvin drafted

1989 - Aikman drafted followed by Wisniewski, Moose and Stepnowski (blocking solved).

1990 - Emmitt Smith drafted

At that point, they pretty much went all defense for a few years because the offense was already loaded.  Of course they did land that Larry Allen guy in 1994 (2nd round!) to shore things up on the line.

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19 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Sure, they did.  They absolutely focused more resources on offense.

And if it wasn't for Watson being a creepy dude - they would be in contention for 15 years - and will be again when/if they get him back - you'll note in 2020 they did, in fact, begin to focus more on defense....

They had the right concept just not the right people in place. Draft your franchise QB - support him with everything you can for 2 to 3 years - then he should be capable of doing more with less - at which point you can focus on building a more rounded team.

The expectation that the defense was going to get worse should be there - but the expectation that you'll have a franchise QB after three years should also be there.

 

 

no, the first pick they made after trading up for watson was a LB.  the following year, while they had no picks in rounds 1 or 2 (watson trade and osweiller salary dump trade), their first pick was a S.  hopkins and fuller were in place before they got watkins (as were watt and clowney on the defense), so they started at a better point than the jets are today.  but they did not seek to load up the offense at the expense of the defense.  

and as i showed up, while their offensive production has remained relatively consistent, their defense fell off a cliff.  granted they have been a horribly run team - o'brien really messed up what could have been a good thing between the tunsil and hopkins trades.  now they are a complete mess, and that's not even including the whole watson-massage fiasco.

again, i want an offensive-focused draft.  but that doesn't mean it is malpractice to also help the defense, especially if the value of a defensive pick (at an area of need) outweighs the value of forcing an offensive pick for the sake of making an offensive pick.

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9 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I have no insider info on this, just me having a feeling but I really think we are going to wait to pick linemam until the 3rd. That we take qb and other play makers but the line gets built this year with two rookies.

I’m kinda onboard with this.  It will infuriate some people but unless there’s a compelling lineman at 23 I think the Jets will wait.  If a guy like AVT is there they’ll take him.  But I can see the Jets going Edge or WR at 23 if the top 5 OL are gone.  There are a lot of OG and RT prospects in this Draft.  I think JD wants to get one in the 3rd.

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43 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You guys just want to keep doing the same thing over and over again and then wonder why it's not working

It really does amaze me. 

I wish I had a good Einstein line about now.

You literally just described how you argue on the internet.

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1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

You literally just described how you argue on the internet.

I continue to be proven correct.  I have clear, logical view points - they don't require a lot fluff as they're quite straight forward.

In this case:

If JD takes defense at either 23 or 34 he will be a failure.  I have little doubt about that.

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35 minutes ago, Marshmello said:

2nd round pick if we trade down? Or we have to take him with the 34th pick?

I like him and Eichenberg but not at 34.  Would hope to trade back and get him in the 40’s depending on what the Jets did at 23.  If the Jets land an AVT or Jenkins then I think they table OL for a while until 86, 107 or even 146.  Guys like Jackson Carman and Robert Hainsey come to mind for later picks.

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