Larz Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 To me this is a super simple draft. It has to be a huge emphasis on supporting the QB that will be expected to start week 1. Yes corner, linebacker are needs but if the pick is Wilson, pass protection must be the priority. JD has so much ammo he needs to move around to get his guys. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlichtie Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 Just now, Larz said: To me this is a super simple draft. It has to be a huge emphasis on supporting the QB that will be expected to start week 1. Yes corner, linebacker are needs but if the pick is Wilson, pass protection must be the priority. JD has so much ammo he needs to move around to get his guys. I don’t disagree with the general premise of what you are saying here but this assumption that only by drafting offense can you ‘support’ the QB is short-sighted There’s not many better ways to support a young QB than having a D that only gives up 10-15 points a game, as opposed to one that is shipping 30-40 points per game 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obrien2Toon Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 I’m on board with Fidelio with the offense or bust with the one possible exception being pass rusher nfl is all about offense and pass rush I’d rather take a kicker before another high pick corner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, redlichtie said: I don’t disagree with the general premise of what you are saying here but this assumption that only by drafting offense can you ‘support’ the QB is short-sighted There’s not many better ways to support a young QB than having a D that only gives up 10-15 points a game, as opposed to one that is shipping 30-40 points per game That's supporting the team, not the QB. And no, it's not the same thing. I would rather have my Rookie QB putting up 30 points and losing 35-30 then only putting up 10 and losing 13-10. The idea is to develop Wilson into a franchise QB so that someday maybe the Jets will actually win a SB. Without developing that franchise guy they'll never win a thing. Adding a LBer is not going help with Wilson's development. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, choon328 said: That's supporting the team, not the QB. And no, it's not the same thing. I would rather have my Rookie QB putting up 30 points and losing 35-30 then only putting up 10 and losing 13-10. The idea is to develop Wilson into a franchise QB so that someday maybe the Jets will actually win a SB. Without developing that franchise guy they'll never win a thing. Adding a LBer is not going help with Wilson's development. Mo Lewis helped with Tom Brady's development. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, choon328 said: That's supporting the team, not the QB. And no, it's not the same thing. I would rather have my Rookie QB putting up 30 points and losing 35-30 then only putting up 10 and losing 13-10. The idea is to develop Wilson into a franchise QB so that someday maybe the Jets will actually win a SB. Without developing that franchise guy they'll never win a thing. Adding a LBer is not going help with Wilson's development. This. And it also makes me wonder if they are actually considering taking a rb early on, to really take the pressure off of wilson by having a stud back there. If they go that round i prefer javonte, he is a beast and he would help control the games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peekskill68 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 9 hours ago, choon328 said: I think if Fields gets to 14 with Minnesota the Bears would trade up ahead of the Patriots and give up their 2nd. It's a lot for that move but within the division they will pay a premium to make that move. Minnesota can move back and still grab an offensive lineman at 20. The Vikings trading out of 14 so the Bears could draft a QB is like us trading with the Dolphins or Pats. Not impossible but highly unlikely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said: I’m on board with Fidelio with the offense or bust with the one possible exception being pass rusher nfl is all about offense and pass rush I’d rather take a kicker before another high pick corner I would agree except we did just sign the best pass rusher we’ve had in over a decade and we expect QW to have a breakout season. Sure, another pass rusher would be great but it is a luxury pick under the current circumstances. I also agree. The only way to stop a good offense under the current league rules is with a pass rush. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Wooty Doo Doo Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 15 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said: I’m on board with Fidelio with the offense or bust with the one possible exception being pass rusher nfl is all about offense and pass rush I’d rather take a kicker before another high pick corner Pass rusher and at least 1 shut down corner is needed , along with OL and a slot receiver . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 43 minutes ago, nycdan said: Even if he could, it would be an anecdote, not a data-driven argument. Look at TB. In 2019, their first five draft picks were defense. In 2018, 3 of their first 4 picks were defense. KC drafted Mahomes in 2017 and followed him up with a DE before taking Hunt in the 3rd. In 2018 they rattled off four straight defensive picks to start the draft. CLE drafted Mayfield in 2018, followed later that round by Ward, a CB. In 2019, four straight defensive picks to start the draft. In 2020, they took an OL followed by three more defensive picks. Fidelio has a theory. It doesn't stand up to any empirical test. But he does have the certainty of the gods so you have to admire that. HUGE difference dude those teams had already added a lot of offensive talent before going defense. KC had hill and Kelce and at the time a good oline, they added the Qb and THEN they added defense. Tampa had mike Evans an okay oline, some decent tight ends at the time, then added a HOF Qb at the same time adding defense. Heck jameis was the leading passer and td thrower on that offense. Your example is totally backwards, those teams built offense, added a Qb and then added defense to round things out thus allowing their QBs to live and function and be good. If you are adding a new young Qb you should be building offense before you draft him and go all out the year or so after you have drafted him. Then worry about defense after your offense in place. The last fail of the jets the last few years, okay defese with not much talent and awful offense and a shot Qb after three years. Even look at the Rex years, great defense carried us but only because they jets had build a great oline and running game. Offense first then worry about the defense. Don't let your 'franchise' QB get killed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlichtie Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 22 minutes ago, choon328 said: That's supporting the team, not the QB. And no, it's not the same thing. I would rather have my Rookie QB putting up 30 points and losing 35-30 then only putting up 10 and losing 13-10. The idea is to develop Wilson into a franchise QB so that someday maybe the Jets will actually win a SB. Without developing that franchise guy they'll never win a thing. Adding a LBer is not going help with Wilson's development. How exactly is supporting the team NOT supporting the QB?....not a lot of point in delving any further into your response beyond that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 Quote TERRACE MARSHALL The Athletic's Jeff Zrebiec reports the Ravens have "cooled on LSU's Terrace Marshall due to injury concerns. Marshall, who spent some of 2020 sidelined with a foot issue and struggled with leg injuries in high school, is a prime candidate to fall down draft boards. Before the injury concerns cropped up, the receiver-needy Ravens were closely linked to Marshall, who posed an 85th percentile burst score and an 85th percentile speed score in pre-draft workouts. This is the second time in a week Marshall's medicals have come up. Safe to say that hush hush injury i heard about at LSU last fall is a real concern... I'm not a physician but if a guy is healthy enough to do drills/work out at pro day, and still have red flags medically -- that's a concern. Which really sucks - cause i thought kid could wind up being the steal of the draft. Now, he might be crossing his fingers to get picked on day 2, period. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrebetfan80 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Paradis said: This is the second time in a week Marshall's medicals have come up. Safe to say that hush hush injury i heard about at LSU last fall is a real concern... I'm not a physician but if a guy is healthy enough to do drills/work out at pro day, and still have red flags medically -- that's a concern. Which really sucks - cause i thought kid could wind up being the steal of the draft. Now, he might be crossing his fingers to get picked on day 2, period. Its a real shame, but it really must be a concern like you said... He was the top guy for the Jets after the first bunch, and the their top realistic target at the position, but then had heard lately Rondale Moore had popped to the top of the list, makes sense that with the medical evaluation he dropped down and Moore, who was 2/3 jumped up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guilhermezmc Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 13 minutes ago, Paradis said: This is the second time in a week Marshall's medicals have come up. Safe to say that hush hush injury i heard about at LSU last fall is a real concern... I'm not a physician but if a guy is healthy enough to do drills/work out at pro day, and still have red flags medically -- that's a concern. Which really sucks - cause i thought kid could wind up being the steal of the draft. Now, he might be crossing his fingers to get picked on day 2, period. What is the injury with him? He's my type of WR, would really like to see him with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoni Beast Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 47 minutes ago, Larz said: To me this is a super simple draft. It has to be a huge emphasis on supporting the QB that will be expected to start week 1. Yes corner, linebacker are needs but if the pick is Wilson, pass protection must be the priority. JD has so much ammo he needs to move around to get his guys. Exactly. But alas, things are seldom simple with the Jets, other than they simply suck. After we draft New Zach City, we should find a way to add a: • 2 OL (starters) • WR • TE or RB I don’t think thats unreasonable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Adoni Beast said: Exactly. But alas, things are seldom simple with the Jets, other than they simply suck. After we draft New Zach City, we should find a way to add a: • 2 OL (starters) • WR • TE or RB I don’t think thats unreasonable. This speaks to trading back to acquire more picks. Another quite possible scenario, is trading back from 23 and taking toney, then an OL early round 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peekskill68 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said: Exactly. But alas, things are seldom simple with the Jets, other than they simply suck. After we draft New Zach City, we should find a way to add a: • 2 OL (starters) • WR • TE or RB I don’t think thats unreasonable. I'm with you. I wouldn't mind seeing a few old school AFL 45-38 type games for once... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 53 minutes ago, Larz said: To me this is a super simple draft. It has to be a huge emphasis on supporting the QB that will be expected to start week 1. Yes corner, linebacker are needs but if the pick is Wilson, pass protection must be the priority. JD has so much ammo he needs to move around to get his guys. I think the week 1 starter is still a free agent. Hoyer, or some other middling player that knows the offense, will be signed after the draft. The rookie QB will be given time to acclimate properly. Anyone that argues against what I'm saying here, but for "protect the new QB" is full of crap, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 38 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said: Its a real shame, but it really must be a concern like you said... He was the top guy for the Jets after the first bunch, and the their top realistic target at the position, but then had heard lately Rondale Moore had popped to the top of the list, makes sense that with the medical evaluation he dropped down and Moore, who was 2/3 jumped up. yea. I was hopeful he mind wind up as our 23/34 target but now, I would be hesitant. Can't help our offense on IR every year. I need to see JD skill player/playmaker picks this weekend. His report card is pretty mixed right now in that area. Sure, he selected Mims, but only after trading back and lucking out (and did nothing else w/ 2020 draft).... His FA signings last year were sh*t (Perriman?) ... and although i like Davis/Cole combo, we still have significant needs at TE/RB/and depth at WR. Rondale Moore would go a long way towards winning me over... I'd like to see Tremble as well, and Zach Davidson too. Double down. RB i have more patience w/... we can bring in a UDFA like McCrary to compete with Tevin/Ty/co. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 25 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said: What is the injury with him? He's my type of WR, would really like to see him with us. I was told he suffered a leg injury (wasn't disclosed to the media) last fall - and decided to bow out the rest of the season. Can't say if it was "exclusively" because of the injury - but appears as though it mos def played a part. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_O_Brien Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAJet815 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 1 hour ago, FidelioJet said: I would agree except we did just sign the best pass rusher we’ve had in over a decade and we expect QW to have a breakout season. Sure, another pass rusher would be great but it is a luxury pick under the current circumstances. I also agree. The only way to stop a good offense under the current league rules is with a pass rush. Agreed. So you’re honestly more toward the mostly offense side...which I think we mostly all are. I can definitely get behind a CB and edge, especially at a value. if you cannot, I get it. But just build the O and fill in holes. Simple in theory but hard to achieve. I think anyone who’s done a mock has seen how hard it is to hit all the things we want. If joe can marry value, talent, and need with his picks, I’ll be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, RVAJet815 said: Agreed. So you’re honestly more toward the mostly offense side...which I think we mostly all are. I can definitely get behind a CB and edge, especially at a value. if you cannot, I get it. But just build the O and fill in holes. Simple in theory but hard to achieve. I think anyone who’s done a mock has seen how hard it is to hit all the things we want. If joe can marry value, talent, and need with his picks, I’ll be happy. You certainly make sense. But, IMO, under the current circumstances taking anything but offense ar 23 and 34 would be malpractice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 1 hour ago, redlichtie said: I don’t disagree with the general premise of what you are saying here but this assumption that only by drafting offense can you ‘support’ the QB is short-sighted There’s not many better ways to support a young QB than having a D that only gives up 10-15 points a game, as opposed to one that is shipping 30-40 points per game Agree , but with Wilson it seems to be his actual ability to literally survive ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAJet815 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: You certainly make sense. But, IMO, under the current circumstances taking anything but offense ar 23 and 34 would be malpractice. In an ideal world, absolutely. If one of the OT slip and Joe passes, I will be right here with you yelling my head off. But if we get to the point where Leatherwood/Creed are the best of what’s left at 23...we’re trading down or we’re taking an edge or Corner. Depending on what the offers are, taking a JOK or Azeez may be practical. In short, Joe’s gonna have to roll with the punches. I won’t just dismiss a defensive pick out of hand...but I agree with you that offense has to be the priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post football guy Posted April 28, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 28, 2021 There are a ton of moving parts as always, but here's the pulse I've gotten the past few days + some of my own observations as it relates to the Jets/OL: Sewell is pretty much locked into the top 7. I'm going to say that he goes #7 to DET, or a team trading up for him. Regarding the Chargers: I expect them to trade up, whether it be for Sewell or Slater I'm not sure. But I don't expect them to wait for a tackle to fall to them. Chicago will look to move up if their QB (Lance) is in reaching distance. Figure picks 8-12 is their range. If this does not happen, they are prime players for an OL and Christian Darrisaw, Teven Jenkins are two players they would probably take if there. Minnesota is likely to sit put and take the best OL available. Many think that player will be AVT, but if a scenario plays out where Slater falls to them, AVT could fall and prompt the Jets to move up for him. Arizona and Las Vegas don't seem very likely to take an OL on Day 1. Miami at #18 is more likely to take a tackle than at #6. I think the only scenario they actually move down is if DET/CAR/DEN were making the offer. Still think they wait until Day 2 before addressing the line. They would absolutely be a threat to take Jenkins. I think Washington kind of removed themselves from the discussion by trading for Flowers unless Darrisaw is there, and even then I'm not sure Darrisaw is good enough for them to take over someone else. Still could trade up for QB too, but less likely. Indianapolis will want to trade down. Yes, they need a LT, but I don't see them reaching for one and find it much more likely they wait until Day 2 and sign Eric Fisher than actually take a tackle round 1. Tennessee is also a threat to take Jenkins, but I don't think they hop back into that well again in round 1. They'll take a guy on day 2. So the Jets will have to monitor how the board falls, but I think the 2 primary teams to worry about are Miami and Chicago as it relates to taking Jenkins. I do think ideally, AVT or Jenkins are the guys they are thinking about realistically coming away with. The key things to keep in mind with Jenkins are that he's already experienced playing in a wide-zone scheme, meets all the physical thresholds both Douglas and the staff look for in potential tackles (in this case, RGs for the blocking scheme), has the playing style and nastiness they look for in offensive lineman, and is extremely versatile. Although there are some questions about his personality, nothing on tape indicates a guy who doesn't love the game. I believe he'll ultimately the pick at #23 (or via mild trade up to #20/21), and if for some reason a pass rusher falls that prompts the Jets to pass, I think they would strongly consider moving back up into the end of round 1 to grab him. I would be shocked if they straight up pass him up because again, the person who mentioned him has never been wrong about a 1st round pick since I met them. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker89 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 4 hours ago, FidelioJet said: Question for you... If you knew then what you know now, would you have fired Mac after his second year? Or do you give him an extra 4 years anyway? You don't know what you know until you know it. Using your logic you would fire good executives for what could be prudent moves... Pinning the incompetence of Idzik and Mac on Douglas is highly illogical and if you were being intellectually honest with yourself you would agree. Either way you don't fire the (according to league circles) promising GM 2 picks into his second draft. He could believe there is no Edge or CB worth a damn after 23 but have plenty of targets at OLine and WR in rounds 2-4. You don't hamstring new management due to the incompetence of old management. You don't judge new management on the failures of old management, and you don't judge new managements moves without first letting them play out because of the ****** taste old management left in your mouth. You hire someone supposedly qualified to do the job, let them do the job. Or continue micromanaging yourself backwards. I don't pretend to know if Douglas will be a good GM or not .... I just know you are wrong about your approach to the process. Feel free to roast him on a spit if he goes all Defense after drafting Wilson but disagreeing with one pick.... at that point Your just be looking for something to be upset about, which is part of you Modus Operandi sooooo.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lith Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 2 hours ago, FidelioJet said: The Jets are currently coming off one of the worst offenses in the history of the NFL. Why is that so hard for so many of you to grasp. Circumstances matter. Not true they avg 15.2 a game that doesn't even rank in the top 100 worst. The 1993,1977and 78 teams were worse. Here's the top 100 http://mcubed.net/nfl/ptlpfpg.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted April 28, 2021 Author Share Posted April 28, 2021 34 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said: They're high on Greg Newsome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 11 minutes ago, football guy said: There are a ton of moving parts as always, but here's the pulse I've gotten the past few days + some of my own observations as it relates to the Jets/OL: Sewell is pretty much locked into the top 7. I'm going to say that he goes #7 to DET, or a team trading up for him. Regarding the Chargers: I expect them to trade up, whether it be for Sewell or Slater I'm not sure. But I don't expect them to wait for a tackle to fall to them. Chicago will look to move up if their QB (Lance) is in reaching distance. Figure picks 8-12 is their range. If this does not happen, they are prime players for an OL and Christian Darrisaw, Teven Jenkins are two players they would probably take if there. Minnesota is likely to sit put and take the best OL available. Many think that player will be AVT, but if a scenario plays out where Slater falls to them, AVT could fall and prompt the Jets to move up for him. Arizona and Las Vegas don't seem very likely to take an OL on Day 1. Miami at #18 is more likely to take a tackle than at #6. I think the only scenario they actually move down is if DET/CAR/DEN were making the offer. Still think they wait until Day 2 before addressing the line. They would absolutely be a threat to take Jenkins. I think Washington kind of removed themselves from the discussion by trading for Flowers unless Darrisaw is there, and even then I'm not sure Darrisaw is good enough for them to take over someone else. Still could trade up for QB too, but less likely. Indianapolis will want to trade down. Yes, they need a LT, but I don't see them reaching for one and find it much more likely they wait until Day 2 and sign Eric Fisher than actually take a tackle round 1. Tennessee is also a threat to take Jenkins, but I don't think they hop back into that well again in round 1. They'll take a guy on day 2. So the Jets will have to monitor how the board falls, but I think the 2 primary teams to worry about are Miami and Chicago as it relates to taking Jenkins. I do think ideally, AVT or Jenkins are the guys they are thinking about realistically coming away with. My primary Jets source said a few weeks ago she thought it would be Jenkins and while she hasn't been wrong on a first-round pick for the Jets since she got there in 2014. She thought it would be Jenkins then, and the most recent text I got regarding the first round was "I got nothing more to say." The key things to keep in mind with Jenkins are that he's already experienced playing in a wide-zone scheme, meets all the physical thresholds both Douglas and the staff look for in potential tackles (in this case, RGs for the blocking scheme), has the playing style and nastiness they look for in offensive lineman, and is extremely versatile. Although there are some questions about his personality, nothing on tape indicates a guy who doesn't love the game. I believe he'll ultimately the pick at #23 (or via mild trade up to #20/21), and if for some reason a pass rusher falls that prompts the Jets to pass, I think they would strongly consider moving back up into the end of round 1 to grab him. I would be shocked if they straight up pass him up because again, the person who mentioned him has never been wrong about a 1st round pick since I met them. If the jets go defense at 23, would they then target the next group of tackles at 34? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted April 28, 2021 Author Share Posted April 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, Lith said: I really think that ultimately, they trade down. I could see this being the spot that's just within range for Chicago without them overpaying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoni Beast Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Augustiniak said: This speaks to trading back to acquire more picks. Another quite possible scenario, is trading back from 23 and taking toney, then an OL early round 2. I really like Toney and if we dont move about thr board, I’d like Jenkins or AVT at 23 and Toney at 34. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 Just now, Adoni Beast said: I really like Toney and if we dont move about thr board, I’d like Jenkins or AVT at 23 and Toney at 34. If the jets want toney i don’t think they can wait to 34 though. I do think they’re going to trade back, as the OL they want will probably be gone, douglas is a ‘draft capital’ kind of guy who values his picks, and the guys with the most value at 23 are likely to be defense. So i see them trading back and going wr or defense, and possibly trading back into round 1 to get an OL they like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: If the jets want toney i don’t think they can wait to 34 though. I do think they’re going to trade back, as the OL they want will probably be gone, douglas is a ‘draft capital’ kind of guy who values his picks, and the guys with the most value at 23 are likely to be defense. So i see them trading back and going wr or defense, and possibly trading back into round 1 to get an OL they like. Go WR at 23 that’s the sweet spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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