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2021 NFL Draft Mega-thread: News, Rumors, and Discussion


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Oh man, @joewilly12 is gonna poop his depends.

I'm getting a little sick of seeing 100 different topics being created to discuss pretty much the same thing, so I figured make a thread where it can all go down in one spot, separate from the FA thre

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Just now, Philc1 said:

Pretty much any Qb not named Brady or Aaron Rodgers would have sucked last year with this roster and Adam Gase in meltdown mode

Yes but stats like EPA chart how good a player, his impact on the game regardless of how good or bad his team is. He was bad last year. And yes he regressed.

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Just now, Tranquilo said:

Yes but stats like EPA chart how good a player, his impact on the game regardless of how good or bad his team is. He was bad last year. And yes he regressed.

Because he was throwing to Chris Hogan and Broxton Berrios half the season while Gase made a 40 yr old Frank Gore the featured back of the offense because he was the one guy in the building who wasn’t rolling his eyes at him in meetings

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25 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

You keep saying you would fire him if he drafts offense at 23 or 34 ... When you mean you would fire him if he drafts defense.  You want offense remember.

I was going to overlook it but you did it in multiple posts. This off-season has melted your brain. Remember you want offense... Say it with me ......offense.

If JD takes Defense You would know nothing .... You would be convinced of something though ..... A dolt being convinced of something does not make a fact. 

Fideliojet being convinced of a premise Fideliojet concocted would not be proof of knowing something but it would mean one of my favorite dum-dumbs had convinced himself of some stupid ****. Which is all good ... Run with it I like it when you say silly **** and think you are being profoundly intelligent it's entertaining.

I think you know my MO by now.... I'm not trying to change your mind on anything I just like to banter with people when they say asinine things. I don't pretend to know if JD will be good or bad at his job.  You on the other hand pretend to know the future along with having the acumen of a top notch NFL exec.

It looks like you are getting the QB of your choice and you are still findings things to whine incessantly about.... Before they even happen. Peak Fideliojet.

Happy Draft Day 

I find it comical that you can take such a condescending and self righteous position while at the same time claiming your thinking is absolute and my position is inherently flawed.

I usually like the back and forth with you - but the sanctimonious tone you've been taking lately is very off-putting.

I really do hope you see the affable Lurker again.

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41 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

We're just going to have disagree.  

Honestly, I'm certainly an emotional fan - but this isn't emotion.

I felt strongly about it with Darnold too.  Mac failed him.  I HATED the QW  pick for the same reason and was vocal about it then.  I still hate that pick.

Putting emotion aside entirely, it makes zero sense (I mean that literally) to me, to take anything but offense at 23 and 34.

When I look at what's in the long-term best interest for this team - I can't see how a CB or Edge or anything on defense - has a better chance of helping this team - more than surrounding our young QB with protection and weapons and doing everything you can to turn him into a top 5 QB.

QB is too important and the shelf life of a good one is far longer than any other position.  If you hit there you're good for 15 years...It's worth the short term hit to the defense for the long term upside.

You might not agree and that's fine - but it's not emotion.  It's based solely on logic.

 

- It's not personal sonny, it's just business - Michael Corleone....

 

Does Hockenson really change Darnold's trajectory?  Of the 1st 17 picks, the only ones that weren't defense or QB were Hockenson, Jonah Williams (missed 2019), and Chris Lindstrom.  Not having those guys certainly caused Darnold's downfall!  

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17 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Because he was throwing to Chris Hogan and Broxton Berrios half the season while Gase made a 40 yr old Frank Gore the featured back of the offense because he was the one guy in the building who wasn’t rolling his eyes at him in meetings

EPA measures impact isolated from other members of the team, like FIP for baseball

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9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I find it comical that you can take such a condescending and self righteous position while at the same time claiming your thinking is absolute and my position is inherently flawed.

I usually like the back and forth with you - but the sanctimonious tone you've been taking lately is very off-putting.

I really do hope you see the affable Lurker again.

My last post was more affable 😜

Don't take my personal attacks so personally ... you will make it more fun than it's supposed to be.

At the end of the day I like you.... Probably more than I should...😘

If something I said struck a nerve it's most likely because there is some truth in it. 

I'm not going to try to convince you of it because we could be here all day ...don't be mad there is a 97% chance your guy is the pick at QB in less than 12 hours. Focus on enjoying that candy bar instead of complaining about the second candy bar.

 

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13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Does Hockenson really change Darnold's trajectory?  Of the 1st 17 picks, the only ones that weren't defense or QB were Hockenson, Jonah Williams (missed 2019), and Chris Lindstrom.  Not having those guys certainly caused Darnold's downfall!  

I agree.

But that really wasn't the point I was trying to get at.  I was just trying to articulate that this isn't an emotional response from me but a belief I've had for years.  It's a firmly held belief that developing a QB should be the only priority for a team, until you have one.

I don't think any one pick missing is a problem at all (from a personnel perspective - even the best GM's miss) but understanding HOW to build a team is the problem.  I'm not sure that be fixed.  You either get it or you don't.

Mac, clearly did not understand how to build a competitive roster in today's NFL.  He simply didn't get it - even if he hit on his picks (which he didn't - which made him all-time bad) he would have still not been able to build a consistent winner because he just didn't get it...

That's all I've been trying to say...  

IMO, if JD takes defense ( @Lurker89 is that okay for you)  at 23 or 34 he just doesn't get it and never will.

 

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10 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

My last post was more affable 😜

Don't take my personal attacks so personally ... you will make it more fun than it's supposed to be.

At the end of the day I like you.... Probably more than I should...😘

If something I said struck a nerve it's most likely because there is some truth in it. 

I'm not going to try to convince you of it because we could be here all day ...don't be mad there is a 97% chance your guy is the pick at QB in less than 12 hours. Focus on enjoying that candy bar instead of complaining about the second candy bar.

 

Not taking it personal.  If I took this stuff personal I certainly wouldn't be sharing my actual feelings.  I get beat up around here.  I know it's mostly all in good fun.

But certain things and people are off-putting, not enjoyable to converse with.  You're usually one I do enjoy.  The past couple of days, not so much.  That's all...

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49 minutes ago, slats said:

No, it's pure emotion. The idea that if the Jets take a defensive player with one of #23 or #34 means Joe Douglas can never have success as a GM? I mean, that's just completely ridiculous. One pick is not going to make or break JD or Zach's career, except maybe the Zach pick, itself. 

I prefer two offensive players and would be perfectly OK with 2 OL, but I can see 1 of 23/34 being defense. I will be really annoyed if both are defense, because then we are headed down the Darnold path again. Our OL is a shambles no other group is more important to fix than OL and we need to do that with premium picks.

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13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree.

But that really wasn't the point I was trying to get at.  I was just trying to articulate that this isn't an emotional response from me but a belief I've had for years.  It's a firmly held belief that developing a QB should be the only priority for a team, until you have one.

I don't think any one pick missing is a problem at all (from a personnel perspective - even the best GM's miss) but understanding HOW to build a team is the problem.  I'm not sure that be fixed.  You either get it or you don't.

Mac, clearly did not understand how to build a competitive roster in today's NFL.  He simply didn't get it - even if he hit on his picks (which he didn't - which made him all-time bad) he would have still not been able to build a consistent winner because he just didn't get it...

That's all I've been trying to say...  

IMO, if JD takes defense ( @Lurker89 is that okay for you)  at 23 or 34 he just doesn't get it and never will.

 

It is stupid.  Reaching is reaching. Hockenson is a very nice player, but the idea that he was a better choice for this team than say Josh Allen is silly.  He didn't do wonders for the Lions who won less games than the Jets over the past two years and ran Stafford out of town.  It's a team game and closing your eyes and yelling offense is beyond dumb.  Saying that a GM has to do it or be fired is beyond that.

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

 

I'll say it again, if JD takes defense at 23 or 34 he has proven to me, with out a doubt in my mind, that he is incompetent.  

Even with great QB play he will be incapable of putting together a Super Bowl winning roster...and we will languish in mediocrity for a decade 

 

out of curiousity, how many super bowl winning teams have you been a part of?

douglas has been part of 3.  he learned from one of the best all-time in "how to put together a roster" and he helped philly get a title.

so your chirping on the interwebz about how you are absolutely, positively sure that douglas doesn't know how to assemble a SB roster is cute.  when you can show me your 3 rings, i may give you a little more credence than just being some message board, know-it-all, arm-chair GM

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21 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Because he was throwing to Chris Hogan and Broxton Berrios half the season while Gase made a 40 yr old Frank Gore the featured back of the offense because he was the one guy in the building who wasn’t rolling his eyes at him in meetings

Sam was just as bad with any and all WRs he played with. Like how Robby Anderson had his worst season with Darnold throwing to him.

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53 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Because he was throwing to Chris Hogan and Broxton Berrios half the season while Gase made a 40 yr old Frank Gore the featured back of the offense because he was the one guy in the building who wasn’t rolling his eyes at him in meetings

Are we still doing this?  Sam stinks and is not our problem anymore.  These types of posts should have disappeared by now.

Lets have constructive discussions like how awesome Zach Wilson is going to be in this offense.  How Rob Saleh is going to change this entire culture and make us a passionate, fiery team.  How Joe Douglas is going to put on a clinic over the next 3 days.

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1 minute ago, BoogSportsGuy said:

Matt Miller in his draft thoughts brings up the Etienne to Jets rumor. Lot of loud noises around that now 

What did he say? 1st or 2nd round?

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33 minutes ago, BoogSportsGuy said:

Matt Miller in his draft thoughts brings up the Etienne to Jets rumor. Lot of loud noises around that now 

Im good with that.  If we go rb at 3, I would hope they take oline at 34 though.

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2 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

What did he say? 1st or 2nd round?

Think I read that about 5 out of 12 “expert” mock drafts this morning have us taking Etienne at 23. 
 

could just be a smokescreen of course.

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One of the issues I am seeing for the Jets is I am not sure there would be many players at 23 that people will want to trade up for if we wanted to trade down.  Seems like the 2nd round talent really starts around 20 or so

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22 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It is stupid.  Reaching is reaching. Hockenson is a very nice player, but the idea that he was a better choice for this team than say Josh Allen is silly.  He didn't do wonders for the Lions who won less games than the Jets over the past two years and ran Stafford out of town.  It's a team game and closing your eyes and yelling offense is beyond dumb.  Saying that a GM has to do it or be fired is beyond that.

I'm all for taking defense two years from now. This is not an all offense all the time.

This is an all-offense while you're trying to develop your QB.  If you do that properly he will be able to do more with less in the future and you can focus on defense.

Moreover, our defensive talent is already far and away superior to our offense.  If we had a middle of the road offense I might be more inclined to be okay with taking defense at 23 or 34 - but we still, likely, have the least talented offense in the league.

Anyway, I've repeated myself enough.  I'll leave this alone until sometime around 10:00 when we're on the clock for the second time.

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9 minutes ago, morny said:

Think I read that about 5 out of 12 “expert” mock drafts this morning have us taking Etienne at 23. 
 

could just be a smokescreen of course.

I think if he's there at 34 they're going to take him....but not at 23.

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5 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

One of the issues I am seeing for the Jets is I am not sure there would be many players at 23 that people will want to trade up for if we wanted to trade down.  Seems like the 2nd round talent really starts around 20 or so

It's hard to visualise a trade down partner. The Saints will try and move up for a corner, but would need to jump ahead of Chicago if they covet CB3. 

Buffalo might want to jump ahead of Pittsburgh for a running back, would we trade with them?

Green Bay like a trade up.. would they move up for Elijah Moore if he slips past Tennessee?

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34 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Not taking it personal.  If I took this stuff personal I certainly wouldn't be sharing my actual feelings.  I get beat up around here.  I know it's mostly all in good fun.

But certain things and people are off-putting, not enjoyable to converse with.  You're usually one I do enjoy.  The past couple of days, not so much.  That's all...

I dig... But you know I'm usually a bit of an ***hole with a hint of condescension. Like you said it's all in good fun ...

You are a good boardie even though we may disagree on plenty we also do agree on plenty of other things. I do genuinely disagree with your above premise ... I do believe internet dragging and trolling are artforms and thus partake in them. When we disagree sometimes you end up down range ... As you said it's all in good fun I truly enjoy when someone takes me down a peg as well or suckers me in With a good troll job.

There is only one poster I genuinely don't like and think is a troglodyte.

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1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

This

Not sure why so many would complain about an EDGE like Paye.

We haven’t been able to consistently put the QB on his ass in over 15 years and it’s killed us on D. Every single Sunday during that span we’ve b*tched about opposing QB’s having all day to throw.

With a DL of Quinnen, Lawson, Paye, Rankins, Franklin-Myers, Curry, etc...that should change in a hurry.

 #34 and beyond.

Everyone seems to forget that this nonsensical opinion by Fidelo is not shared by the overwhelming majority.  

I would imagine Joe Douglas would be fired if he took middle graded day 3 players just to fill needs in day 2, while forgoing players that could turn around this franchise.  

It's just about the dumbest take we've ever seen here on this forum.  

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From Matt Miller earlier today:

As always happens, after publishing my final 7-round mock draft, rumors started circulating that the New York Jets have eyes on Clemson running back Travis Etienne. As we talked about in the Wednesday night pre-draft Hangout, this is a rumor that’s been out there for some time but one I had a hard time accepting due to Joe Douglas’ reputation as a team-builder. But this one is picking up steam, folks.

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34 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm all for taking defense two years from now. This is not an all offense all the time.

This is an all-offense while you're trying to develop your QB.  If you do that properly he will be able to do more with less in the future and you can focus on defense.

Moreover, our defensive talent is already far and away superior to our offense.  If we had a middle of the road offense I might be more inclined to be okay with taking defense at 23 or 34 - but we still, likely, have the least talented offense in the league.

Anyway, I've repeated myself enough.  I'll leave this alone until sometime around 10:00 when we're on the clock for the second time.

Whether the draft lines up with that be damned!  

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9 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Everyone seems to forget that this nonsensical opinion by Fidelo is not shared by the overwhelming majority.  

I would imagine Joe Douglas would be fired if he took middle graded day 3 players just to fill needs in day 2, while forgoing players that could turn around this franchise.  

It's just about the dumbest take we've ever seen here on this forum.  

Are you seriously telling me there won't be another offensive player taken until the 3rd round?

Is that the point you're making?

That at 23 they'll be NO first round graded talent available?  Is that really your position?  

I can almost say with certainly within the next 3 picks there will be an offensive player taken, likely 2 in the next 5. 

They'll be quality - 1st round graded offensive talent available at 23.  

When the Steelers take Najee Harris at 24 and we have taken, yet again, another CB - I'm going to hear how JD had no choice, it was the best value, he did the right thing etc...

Then when we suck and the Steelers are in the playoffs again in 2 years - I'll hear how smart and steady a franchise they are...and no one will mention they didn't take best "value" at 24 or that RB's aren't important anymore or that they were crazy to pass on the CB or Edge that Dogma says they must.

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33 minutes ago, Bronxville Jets Fan said:

From Matt Miller earlier today:

As always happens, after publishing my final 7-round mock draft, rumors started circulating that the New York Jets have eyes on Clemson running back Travis Etienne. As we talked about in the Wednesday night pre-draft Hangout, this is a rumor that’s been out there for some time but one I had a hard time accepting due to Joe Douglas’ reputation as a team-builder. But this one is picking up steam, folks.

Right. Good team builders don't draft RBs high. 

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19 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Are you seriously telling me there won't be another offensive player taken until the 3rd round?

Is that the point you're making?

That at 23 they'll be NO first round graded talent available?  Is that really your position?  

I can almost say with certainly within the next 3 picks there will be an offensive player taken, likely 2 in the next 5. 

They'll be quality - 1st round graded offensive talent available at 23.  

When the Steelers take Najee Harris at 24 and we have taken, yet again, another CB - I'm going to hear how JD had no choice, it was the best value, he did the right thing etc...

Then when we suck and the Steelers are in the playoffs again in 2 years - I'll hear how smart and steady a franchise they are...and no one will mention they didn't take best "value" at 24 or that RB's aren't important anymore or that they were crazy to pass on the CB or Edge that Dogma says they must.

The real question I have is how much better the grades are for a Teven Jenkins vs. Liam Eichenberg vs. Spencer Brown... the Oline class is deep, and arguably, they could achieve similar value to bottom first in the 3rd round.  It all comes down to the draft grades and where the fall-off is between tiers. The uncertainty of COVID, opt outs and medicals also makes it more of a crapshoot.  At RB,  I see Etienne, Harris, and Javonte Williams, and then a large fall-off at RB.  I don't tend to want RBs high (as their durability is low), but we need weapons.  So at 23, would I be surprised if they took one?  NO... but more likely would see it at 34 (but if one of them goes before the Jets? maybe they bite)... if not they will wait till later in the draft.  Same goes for CB... once the first few go the next tier is long and meh.  So could see them waiting til round 3 or 4 on a nickel type prospect of S/LB tweener.  LB/edge again has a lot of meh and a long 2nd tier.  Really intrigued to know their board on the LBs... they scare me in this draft and I'd rather roll the dice later.  I do think we'll see oline by end of round 2... just not sure yet if they are going to do it in Round 1, depending on who falls.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Are you seriously telling me there won't be another offensive player taken until the 3rd round?

Is that the point you're making?

That at 23 they'll be NO first round graded talent available?  Is that really your position?  

I can almost say with certainly within the next 3 picks there will be an offensive player taken, likely 2 in the next 5. 

They'll be quality - 1st round graded offensive talent available at 23.  

When the Steelers take Najee Harris at 24 and we have taken, yet again, another CB - I'm going to hear how JD had no choice, it was the best value, he did the right thing etc...

Then when we suck and the Steelers are in the playoffs again in 2 years - I'll hear how smart and steady a franchise they are...and no one will mention they didn't take best "value" at 24 or that RB's aren't important anymore or that they were crazy to pass on the CB or Edge that Dogma says they must.

That's not what I'm saying.  It's not what I said.  Stop making stuff up.  If there is a BETTER defensive player that we sorely need at 23 or 34 and there is no offensive player to match that quality, then you take Paye at 23 or you take Phillips at 34. The quality Oline you can get with an upcoming pick may be just as high or close to what you pass over for the Edge.  This is an OL rich dtraft and an Edge deficient draft in the first 3-4 rounds, IMO.  

You've created a rigid, mechanical blueprint for Joe Douglas to follow no matter what's there in the drtaft.  That is a pitiful take.  So we will agree to disagree. I understand your point, you don't need to keep repeating it. You are becoming another Phil with all the redundant posts.   I think your take is wrong.  That's all. We'll leave it at that.  My hope is that there are outstanding, crazy-if-we-don't-pick-them offense there at 23 and 34.  Then all this will be moot.  But if there's not, and Paye is sitting at 23 or Phillips at 34... then would you like to place a wager on who JD picks?  Cause it won't be offense.

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