2021 NFL Draft Mega-thread: News, Rumors, and Discussion

[David Harris]

5 hours ago, King P said:

I was saying on the JN zoom last night that Leatherwood was such a Mayock pick, now this ??

 

Good – bring Mayock back to NFLN! He may be a crappy general manager but he’s a hell of a lot of fun to watchHe may be a crappy general manager but he’s a hell of a lot of fun to watch on draft day on draft day

[David Harris]

59 minutes ago, football guy said:

Jets had Zach Wilson #1 on their board. AVT was #7. They made trade offers to NYG, DAL, and LAC thinking MIN would take AVT, didn’t expect them to accept the offer and they did. 

Expect a trade down tonight. Giants and Raiders are interested 

Pure Gold

[Jets723]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

Jets had Zach Wilson #1 on their board. AVT was #7. They made trade offers to NYG, DAL, and LAC thinking MIN would take AVT, didn’t expect them to accept the offer and they did. 

Expect a trade down tonight. Giants and Raiders are interested 

Yup I’m expecting a trade down.  Jets are in a great spot 

[Flightattendant]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

Jets had Zach Wilson #1 on their board. AVT was #7. They made trade offers to NYG, DAL, and LAC thinking MIN would take AVT, didn’t expect them to accept the offer and they did. 

Expect a trade down tonight. Giants and Raiders are interested 

I want to comment on the 3rd rounders we traded to move up. 

 

Davis (potential)

Zuniga (backup)

Polite (cut)

Edoga (backup)

Shepard (serviceable ish)

Stewart (no longer in the nfl)

Jenkins (solid LB)

Mauldin (started 3 games lol)

McDougal (somehow started less than mauldin)

 

 

Those are our 3rd round picks over the last 7 years. 

 

Let's take the cream of the crop here. Davis and jenkins.  AT BEST we traded davis and jenkins to draft an iOL with pro bowl potential.

I dont understand why 3rd round picks are soooooo overvalued in the nfl. Everything after mid second is a crap shoot imo. You can put whatever draft value number you want on these picks, at the end of the day they're players. If the players dont pan out (which they rarely do) then the picks arent very valuable (which they arent).

At the end of the day if you would trade jenkins and Davis for an oil with zack martin potential, then you cant complain. If you wouldn't make trade jenkins and Davis for an iOL with zack martin potential, then you should probably seek medical help... quickly.

[long time suffering Jets f]

12 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Yup I’m expecting a trade down.  Jets are in a great spot 

Never a big fan of the trade down, especially as you get in the 2nd round. The further you trade back the more uncertainty the prospects become. Make the pick at #34. He will most likely be a bonafide starter on day 1.

[Jets723]

14 minutes ago, long time suffering Jets f said:

Never a big fan of the trade down, especially as you get in the 2nd round. The further you trade back the more uncertainty the prospects become. Make the pick at #34. He will most likely be a bonafide starter on day 1.

It depends.  Last year we got Mims after a trade back.  This year we have an even more attractive chip.  I trust Joe 

[Tranquilo]

There are 20 dudes I’d take this round. Trade back 

[football guy]

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Heard the same about the Raiders.  The offer I heard was 48, 79, 80.

Raiders wouldn’t include a 3rd apparently and Jets were asking for a 2nd and 3rd

[Wit]

1 minute ago, football guy said:

Raiders wouldn’t include a 3rd apparently and Jets were asking for a 2nd and 3rd

Interesting. Do you think they are done for the night then?

[Sammybighead]

5 minutes ago, football guy said:

Raiders wouldn’t include a 3rd apparently and Jets were asking for a 2nd and 3rd

You know what? It worked our perfectly fine. Keep your stupid third raiduhs

[C Mart]

10 minutes ago, football guy said:

Raiders wouldn’t include a 3rd apparently and Jets were asking for a 2nd and 3rd

Seems teams were only offering a 4th, at best. 

[C Mart]

 

[C Mart]

 

[mrcoops]

Interesting stuff on Pinnock. I wasn't too familiar with him pre-draft, but have watched some Pitt games over the last couple of days and he is quite impressive. Good size, speed and breaks nicely on the ball.

 

[Barton]

1 hour ago, mrcoops said:

Interesting stuff on Pinnock. I wasn't too familiar with him pre-draft, but have watched some Pitt games over the last couple of days and he is quite impressive. Good size, speed and breaks nicely on the ball.

 

 

So why was he taken so late? Those #'s look really good. 

[clayton163v]

2 hours ago, Barton said:

 

So why was he taken so late? Those #'s look really good. 

I think he was one of those guys who was badly hurt by the lack of a combine this season.  There was also no Shrine Game, etc. 

I think it led to big school players and seniors (there was a Senior Bowl) getting overdrafted and lesser known guys getting overlooked.  Ourlads did not do a write up on Pinnock.  I attribute that to the lack of a Combine and Shrine Game.  It is why this year's draft is such a crapshoot. 

For example, Kyle Phillips received a full write up the year we signed him as an undrafted free agent.  They gave him a 7th round grade but lauded his all around game.  Ourlads almost never misses a drafted player.  Never mind a fifth round pick.  There are 300-400 write ups in the typical guide.  Far more than there are draft slots.   

 

[choon328]

4 hours ago, Barton said:

 

So why was he taken so late? Those #'s look really good. 

This was a write up on Pinnock pre draft from nfl.com:

There is much to process with the tape and the traits of Pinnock. He looks the part, with size, length and strength, and his testing confirmed the athleticism that can be found on tape. He has the potential to roadblock receivers from press but struggles to maintain his poise and pace when he gets beaten early in the route. He has ball skills when playing with his eyes forward, but his success rate and accuracy to challenge the catch-point goes way down with his back to the ball. He has the athleticism and physical tools that fit into Cover 3 and press-man concepts, but he shouldn't be left on an island.

 

Pinnock was given a 5th-6th round value here on this scouting report. My theory on this is pretty simple. People who do these scouting reports on CB's have an obvious bias towards man cover guys. But a defense like SF or the Jets will value these zone guys 2-3 rounds higher bc of the system fit. As long as your scouts are on the same page as your coaching staff and know what they're looking for you can find so much value later in the draft on these zone CB's bc of that bias. Also the demand for man CB's in the league is so high that these guys who project only in a zone scheme will have a very short list of teams who covet their zone fit.

There's a reason why Seattle and SF never spend high picks on CB's. The top 3 CB's on the Legion of Boom were 5th (Sherman, 2011), Undrafted (Browner, 2005) and 6th (Maxwell, 2011) Round draft picks. I really think the secondary is going to surprise a ton of people this year. 

[playtowinthegame]

@football guy

Do you think JD's going to be interested in trading for Nick Foles? The Bears already have Dalton and JF. Nick Foles  is my first choice as the veteran quarterback to add to the qb room. May as well go get Zach Ertz too.

[HawkeyeJet]

17 hours ago, choon328 said:

. He has ball skills when playing with his eyes forward, but his success rate and accuracy to challenge the catch-point goes way down with his back to the ball.

I said this in another thread the day after the draft but that seems to be a common thread with the guys the Jets drafted this year at CB.  It was hard to find much/any info on some of them, but athletic and do well when the play is in front of them, much worse when the bey have to turn and run.

Obviously that sounds like a fit for our scheme, would be great if one of these hit.

[choon328]

19 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I said this in another thread the day after the draft but that seems to be a common thread with the guys the Jets drafted this year at CB.  It was hard to find much/any info on some of them, but athletic and do well when the play is in front of them, much worse when the bey have to turn and run.

Obviously that sounds like a fit for our scheme, would be great if one of these hit.

Right, which is why I kept telling everybody pre draft there was no way they would take a CB in the first 3 rounds. A lot of people are still stuck in the old mindset of the past 15 years that CB is the most important piece to the defense. It is now the least important part of the defense and easiest to find late in the draft. 

[jetstream23]

17 hours ago, choon328 said:

This was a write up on Pinnock pre draft from nfl.com:

There is much to process with the tape and the traits of Pinnock. He looks the part, with size, length and strength, and his testing confirmed the athleticism that can be found on tape. He has the potential to roadblock receivers from press but struggles to maintain his poise and pace when he gets beaten early in the route. He has ball skills when playing with his eyes forward, but his success rate and accuracy to challenge the catch-point goes way down with his back to the ball. He has the athleticism and physical tools that fit into Cover 3 and press-man concepts, but he shouldn't be left on an island.

 

Pinnock was given a 5th-6th round value here on this scouting report. My theory on this is pretty simple. People who do these scouting reports on CB's have an obvious bias towards man cover guys. But a defense like SF or the Jets will value these zone guys 2-3 rounds higher bc of the system fit. As long as your scouts are on the same page as your coaching staff and know what they're looking for you can find so much value later in the draft on these zone CB's bc of that bias. Also the demand for man CB's in the league is so high that these guys who project only in a zone scheme will have a very short list of teams who covet their zone fit.

There's a reason why Seattle and SF never spend high picks on CB's. The top 3 CB's on the Legion of Boom were 5th (Sherman, 2011), Undrafted (Browner, 2005) and 6th (Maxwell, 2011) Round draft picks. I really think the secondary is going to surprise a ton of people this year. 

Yup, a Cover-3 zone coverage type defender who should face the ball and not try to mirror guys 1-on-1 down the field on complex routes.

I've been saying similar things to your last paragraph.  Saleh will spend resources upfront on his DLine.  He wants elite edge guys and pass rushers, a stud LEO.  His defense is about pressuring the QB into mistakes and letting his zone coverage CBs make a play on a poor throw or hurried pass that comes out earlier than the QB desired to throw it.  As you said, they use late picks on CBs.... but look what they did at #2 in 2018, they got their Nick Bosa.  And, who was the most expensive Jets free agent this year?  Carl Lawson.  That tells us what we need to know about how Saleh wants this D to look.  I expect next year (Jets with two 1sts, two 2nds) to target an Edge rusher very early, probably in Round 1.

[football guy]

4 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

@football guy

Do you think JD's going to be interested in trading for Nick Foles? The Bears already have Dalton and JF. Nick Foles  is my first choice as the veteran quarterback to add to the qb room. May as well go get Zach Ertz too.

Not a good fit for the offense

[Joe W. Namath]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

Not a good fit for the offense

Agree.  Nick mullins or jeff driskel

[JohnnyLV]

Just now, Joe W. Namath said:

Agree.  Nick mullins or jeff driskel

To be honest I want us to just roll with Zach and Morgan. Zach will have plenty of people to advise him and get him ready unlike Sam. He does not need the distraction veterans cause.

[Pac]

Uhhh..  we need a capable starter, preferably for the year.

sure fire way to ruin this kid is to throw him out week one if he's not ready.  He won't be playing Wichita Valley CC.

For the love of god no nick mullens..  ugh.

[Joe W. Namath]

14 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

To be honest I want us to just roll with Zach and Morgan. Zach will have plenty of people to advise him and get him ready unlike Sam. He does not need the distraction veterans cause.

I somewhat agree.  I think Morgan is going to be this generations pat ryan.  I cant wait to see him this preseason.

Signing a vet would cause 0 distraction though.  They will be told they are there to mentor wilson and thats it.

[32EBoozer]

5 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Yup, a Cover-3 zone coverage type defender who should face the ball and not try to mirror guys 1-on-1 down the field on complex routes.

I've been saying similar things to your last paragraph.  Saleh will spend resources upfront on his DLine.  He wants elite edge guys and pass rushers, a stud LEO.  His defense is about pressuring the QB into mistakes and letting his zone coverage CBs make a play on a poor throw or hurried pass that comes out earlier than the QB desired to throw it.  As you said, they use late picks on CBs.... but look what they did at #2 in 2018, they got their Nick Bosa.  And, who was the most expensive Jets free agent this year?  Carl Lawson.  That tells us what we need to know about how Saleh wants this D to look.  I expect next year (Jets with two 1sts, two 2nds) to target an Edge rusher very early, probably in Round 1.

Need to find that Edge on the left from the current roster or trade!!

[slats]

13 hours ago, johnnysd said:

To be honest I want us to just roll with Zach and Morgan. Zach will have plenty of people to advise him and get him ready unlike Sam. He does not need the distraction veterans cause.

Lol, what? 

Zach would benefit greatly from a veteran QB familiar with the offense LaFluer's installing to back him up. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

11 minutes ago, slats said:

Lol, what? 

Zach would benefit greatly from a veteran QB familiar with the offense LaFluer's installing to back him up. 

I don't agree that it's a distraction to bring in a vet QB.

But, I think there's a fair argument to the 'we don't need a vet qb'. We've got Knapp and a much larger coaching staff than the previous regime.

If we had someone that could start the season, I'd prefer that, but I don't see anyone of that quality available. 

[Integrity28]

14 hours ago, johnnysd said:

To be honest I want us to just roll with Zach and Morgan. Zach will have plenty of people to advise him and get him ready unlike Sam. He does not need the distraction veterans cause.

If we can’t lean on Morgan as our #2 QB then what was the point of picking him. I saw it as selecting a cheap backup.

[Scotty Wooty Doo Doo]

Does Morgan fit the new offense ?

[Joe W. Namath]

I would think it is pretty obvious that right before camo, Nick Mullins will be signed.  The qbs will be:

1- Wilson

2- Mullins

3- Morgan

And Morgan will be elevated to the 2 when Wilson and morgan dont need a mentor anymore.