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2021 NFL Draft Mega-thread: News, Rumors, and Discussion


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1 hour ago, choon328 said:

It's just not good business to keep an asset that you know will leave for nothing when you could have gotten something for him.  The comp pick is not a factor bc  the Jets will have to spend money every offseason and you don't get a comp pick for a player who gets signed to be a backup qb

Understand the loss of the pick, but I also think selling low doesn’t make sense either.  And there remains a distinct possibility of him improving on the Jets and then being moved for a higher pick in season (when a QB1 goes down), than him walking for nothing.  I think it’s worth the difference between a third/4th round pick in a trade and a 5th-6th round comp if he leaves, to solidify the QB room, and take the chance that a 24 year old QB finds it under this new coaching staff.  For other skill positions, maybe you get what you can get... but there is a premium on QBs in the league.  THat’s the difference.  You move him if you get the offer you want, not whatever the market is.  JD still has leverage here.

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Oh man, @joewilly12 is gonna poop his depends.

I'm getting a little sick of seeing 100 different topics being created to discuss pretty much the same thing, so I figured make a thread where it can all go down in one spot, separate from the FA thre

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4 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

That is not true.

They gave up 2 1st round picks (n 2022 & 2023) to swap places with Miami. SF did not lose a 1st round pick in 2021. The only asset they gave up in 2021 in this deal was a 3rd round compensatory pick.

So that isn't true either. The 3rd round pick is in 2022 not 2021. And they did give up 3 1st round picks,  2021, 2022 and 2023. They got one back in return. It's semantics and it doesn't matter. Glad you could be wrong as well. 

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1 minute ago, Phillyjet said:

Understand the loss of the pick, but I also think selling low doesn’t make sense either.  And there remains a distinct possibility of him improving on the Jets and then being moved for a higher pick in season (when a QB1 goes down), than him walking for nothing.  I think it’s worth the difference between a third/4th round pick in a trade and a 5th-6th round comp if he leaves, to solidify the QB room, and take the chance that a 24 year old QB finds it under this new coaching staff.  For other skill positions, maybe you get what you can get... but there is a premium on QBs in the league.  THat’s the difference.  You move him if you get the offer you want, not whatever the market is.  JD still has leverage here.

Where we differ is that keeping Darnold would solidify the QB room. Hes been awful for a myriad of reasons. How would keeping the worst starting QB in the league behind a rookie solidify anything? He's not capable of playing well on a consistent basis, that's been proven already. A number of FA would be better options than Darnold to backup Wilson. 

Let's be honest here, I think the real issue isn't that you guys want to keep him to be a good backup, you want him to start hoping he somehow becomes great.  Which to me would be a disaster based on his history. And the idea that if he was playing well you'd all be happy flipping him for a high pick is also not accurate. We'd have the same argument about trading him then as we are now.  That's the reality of the current situation, in my opinion. 

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23 minutes ago, choon328 said:

So that isn't true either. The 3rd round pick is in 2022 not 2021. And they did give up 3 1st round picks,  2021, 2022 and 2023. They got one back in return. It's semantics and it doesn't matter. Glad you could be wrong as well. 

You're right. I stand corrected on the 3rd round pick (it is 2022).

When I read "gave up a pick", to me that is a net loss of a pick without a pick (or player) coming back in return for it. When a pick or a player is gained (especially if the pick coming back is higher than 1 traded), then that pick wasn't "given up". To me, SF "gave up" 3 picks in this deal.

We can agree to disagree on the semantics of that point.

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16 minutes ago, football guy said:

I gotta say what makes me laugh the most is how posters on a Jets message board act like they know more than people who actually work in the front office and on the coaching staff, but if it makes you feel better continue convincing yourself this 

Unless JD talks in his sleep and the poster is banging JD's wife.

But I'd bet that he hasn't even told her IF he had made a final decision.

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18 minutes ago, football guy said:

I gotta say what makes me laugh the most is how posters on a Jets message board act like they know more than people who actually work in the front office and on the coaching staff, but if it makes you feel better continue convincing yourself this 

@football guy I do think they end up with Wilson ! But I don’t think football guy was wrong . People like sam in the building , coaches / owner . But JD prob loves Wilson at this point and that’s y. So he hasn’t said anything false 

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20 hours ago, johnnysd said:

JD passed on the SF haul in essence. I believe that will last weeks events the draft essentially starts at 4 now and that is where teams considering a trade up will want to go. As an example either Lance or Fields will be there at #5, Carolina can move from 8 to 5 for a second round pick, maybe needing to add another pic just because it is going up for a QB. 

Whereas to get #2 they need to go like 3 firsts and a second. So 2 additional firsts over trading to #5. Unless Carolina wants Wilson for any cost there is essentially no chance they trade up. Once SF guaranteed that #3 was QB and mostly Jones basically all of JDs leverage for the #2 pick went away for anyone other than Wilson and the price is prohibitive.

JD had to have been aware of what the 49ers were considering and he also had to know it basically locked us into Wilson at 2.

So the same reports that said that the 49ers believed the Jets were locked into a QB at #2 also said the 49ers never discussed the #2 pick with the Jets. I don't understand why people keep saying Douglas turned down what SF was offering. According to SF, the reason they believe the Jets are taking a QB was a result of their discussions revolving around Darnold, not the #2. 

Also don't understand how you could possibly think that SF moving up for a QB hurt JD's leverage. That trade did two things; it guaranteed a QB goes at #3, and it set the price to move up. If Carolina wants Wilson or Jones (as is the assumption), they need to move up to #2. If Lance or Fields works for them, a lesser trade works. If Atlanta's looking at a guy like Lance at #4 to sit behind Ryan for a year, now what for Carolina? People point to that SF trade up as a slight to Darnold, but they were willing to give up three first rounders to move to #3 -without even speaking to the Jets about it, believing that they're taking Wilson- doesn't that suggest that those same people really don't have a particularly high grade on Zach? And if one team is willing to pay three firsts for #3, why would that trade make it less likely that someone would trade a little more to move to #2? Especially for a QB we're starting to refer to here as better than TL? That's a terrible argument. 

Again, I think the Jets are taking Wilson. I just won't consider it to be a done deal until Carolina does something else at QB or the Jets trade Darnold. But that is the way things look. I hope this isn't the year Chris Simms falls on his face. 

 

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19 hours ago, choon328 said:

Where we differ is that keeping Darnold would solidify the QB room. Hes been awful for a myriad of reasons. How would keeping the worst starting QB in the league behind a rookie solidify anything? He's not capable of playing well on a consistent basis, that's been proven already. A number of FA would be better options than Darnold to backup Wilson. 

Let's be honest here, I think the real issue isn't that you guys want to keep him to be a good backup, you want him to start hoping he somehow becomes great.  Which to me would be a disaster based on his history. And the idea that if he was playing well you'd all be happy flipping him for a high pick is also not accurate. We'd have the same argument about trading him then as we are now.  That's the reality of the current situation, in my opinion. 

You've talked a lot in this thread about people being wrong.  You could be wrong as well.  These are all opinions on a fan site.  While you might think this, there is validity to the opposing view.  The fact is, we might not be getting offered much for Darnold.  So in reality, what would be the point in trading him.  The system that is being set up is perfect for Darnold's skillset.  The WR's would be the best crew he has worked with, and could still be improved in the draft.  

If he starts and plays well, this isn't a problem.  If he starts and he stinks, you have Wilson in the wings.  Personally, I am starting to warm to the idea that trying to salvage Darnold one last time under a real coaching staff with a bit more talent makes more sense than trading him for a low pick.

In the end, whatever happens will be out of our collective control, and will be fodder to either praise or criticize the guy who did it.

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I assume if JD really loves Wilson (or Fields), the reason they haven't traded Sam yet is because they have not gotten their price as @football guy has said (probably want a 2 and only offered a 3 or 4).   I wonder if they move him for something that allows JD to save some face, like a 4 this year and a 3 next year that can become a 2 with playing time, etc.

 

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LSU and FSU pro days today. Anyone know who represents the jets? JD probably going to Florida for Pitts and Toney, but LSU also has some key players (receivers), including in the defense (Cox).

 

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If the Jets keep Sam and he plays like a boss, one additional benefit will be that Adam Gase will probably never see the sideline of an NFL game again without a ticket.  I am truly leaning on the side of Gase surpassing Rich Kotite as the most inept head coach in Jets history, and that would seal the deal for me.

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3 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

LSU and FSU pro days today. Anyone know who represents the jets? JD probably going to Florida for Pitts and Toney, but LSU also has some key players (receivers), including in the defense (Cox).

 

No LSU Safeties this year?

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5 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

I assume if JD really loves Wilson (or Fields), the reason they haven't traded Sam yet is because they have not gotten their price as @football guy has said (probably want a 2 and only offered a 3 or 4).   I wonder if they move him for something that allows JD to save some face, like a 4 this year and a 3 next year that can become a 2 with playing time, etc.

 

Ultimately i think the jets trade darnold for a lower pick this year and a conditional pick next year that can be as high as a 2 based on incentives.  

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45 minutes ago, nycdan said:

If the Jets keep Sam and he plays like a boss, one additional benefit will be that Adam Gase will probably never see the sideline of an NFL game again without a ticket.  I am truly leaning on the side of Gase surpassing Rich Kotite as the most inept head coach in Jets history, and that would seal the deal for me.

1) That's a pretty big IF

2) Also, Gase was terrible head coach, but he had a better record than Kotite here with less talent and more injuries. 

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57 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

I assume if JD really loves Wilson (or Fields), the reason they haven't traded Sam yet is because they have not gotten their price as @football guy has said (probably want a 2 and only offered a 3 or 4).   I wonder if they move him for something that allows JD to save some face, like a 4 this year and a 3 next year that can become a 2 with playing time, etc.

 

Not what I said. They hadn't made either Sam or the #2 pick available yet as of last week. I think that's a foolish approach personally- at some point you have to start negotiating and see what you can get before the market dries up, but that's the approach the front office has taken. 

I do think there is a slight possibility the Jets have a wink-wink agreement in place pending Wilson's physical, but if there is higher ups in the FO don't know about it, and I think that's more wishful thinking/hoping the Jets have taken a more competent approach than what they're currently doing 

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1 minute ago, football guy said:

Not what I said. They hadn't made either Sam or the #2 pick available yet as of last week. I think that's a foolish approach personally- at some point you have to start negotiating and see what you can get before the market dries up, but that's the approach the front office has taken. 

I do think there is a slight possibility the Jets have a wink-wink agreement in place pending Wilson's physical, but that's more wishful thinking/hoping the Jets have taken a more competent approach than what they're currently doing 

Got it.  I figured they were waiting for FMV on Sam before trading him.   But I agree with you that it is peculiar they have not even made Sam or #2 available yet. 

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3 minutes ago, football guy said:

Not what I said. They hadn't made either Sam or the #2 pick available yet as of last week. I think that's a foolish approach personally- at some point you have to start negotiating and see what you can get before the market dries up, but that's the approach the front office has taken. 

I do think there is a slight possibility the Jets have a wink-wink agreement in place pending Wilson's physical, but that's more wishful thinking/hoping the Jets have taken a more competent approach than what they're currently doing 

I see it as musical chairs.  The market partially dries up when teams like SF move up and WFT signs Fitzpatrick (although that should necessarily be an end-game for any team).  But we always knew that there were chairs.  We also know there are more teams than chairs.  Let's even assume CHI is happy with Dalton (which is in question).  That leaves CAR and DEN as the most obvious players.  There are essentially two chairs remaining.  Jimmy G and Sam.  The draft is not going to help both of them.  CAR might get a crack at Jones or Lance unless DEN or someone else jumps them.  That still leaves one of them on the outside looking in.

hahaha | Funny pictures tumblr, Motivational posters, Just for laughs

That girl in the background would trade a Day 2 draft pick to be one of the girls in the picture.  

It's kind of the same thing.

 

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Just now, Dinamite said:

Got it.  I figured they were waiting for FMV on Sam before trading him.   But I agree with you that it is peculiar they have not even made Sam or #2 available yet. 

I don't think so. Douglas hasn't told teams what he wants, but people think he wants a 1st, think he knows that an inconsistent but talented QB on the final year of his deal is worth a 2nd+ (FMV), but could settle for slightly less. 

And I don't want to make it sound like they're "making it available" either. They simply haven't made counter offers or engaged in negotiations. Like teams have called the Jets asking what they want and if I'm understanding it correctly (based on what we read in the media and what I hear), he's basically been like "we'll get back to you." But every time a team calls, every time the scouts/personnel do background work and get answers to questions like "what do you think your team would offer", the Jets compile that information to get an idea what the market would be. And what they've gotten back on #2 whether it be from agents or other teams' personnel is that teams in the top 10 (PHI, CAR, DEN) feel it would be cost prohibitive and that the one legitimate team who has the cojones to make such a move (Carolina) may just hold out for Watson instead. 

Due to all that background work above, the Jets have an idea what they can get. They'll consider that, they'll consider the scouting evaluations of the QB crop (Wilson), they'll consider the coaches perspectives, they'll consider Darnold, and by around April 9 (which was always the date I was told the Jets want to have a decisive answer on who will be the QB, which we now have learned falls in-line with the medicals), they'll make an internal decision who they prefer and that will spur them starting to vet out trades. 

Personally, I think the process they developed was playing it too safe, and not being willing to abandon the process may cost them a bit on the trade front. That said, just in speaking with people in the industry it seems like if/when Joe makes Sam available he'll get traded rather quickly. 

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7 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I see it as musical chairs.  The market partially dries up when teams like SF move up and WFT signs Fitzpatrick (although that should necessarily be an end-game for any team).  But we always knew that there were chairs.  We also know there are more teams than chairs.  Let's even assume CHI is happy with Dalton (which is in question).  That leaves CAR and DEN as the most obvious players.  There are essentially two chairs remaining.  Jimmy G and Sam.  The draft is not going to help both of them.  CAR might get a crack at Jones or Lance unless DEN or someone else jumps them.  That still leaves one of them on the outside looking in.

hahaha | Funny pictures tumblr, Motivational posters, Just for laughs

That girl in the background would trade a Day 2 draft pick to be one of the girls in the picture.  

It's kind of the same thing.

 

Agreed. But I will say man, I really wouldn't discount Seattle. They're the one team crazy enough to figure out a way to bring Darnold in-house, sit him for a year, then figure out next year whether they'll trade Russell Wilson and move forward with Sam or just let him walk and recoup the comp pick. I think they'd have to get reallly creative to make it work because they have no draft capital, but Pete Carroll and John Schneider love Sam.  

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22 minutes ago, football guy said:

Not what I said. They hadn't made either Sam or the #2 pick available yet as of last week. I think that's a foolish approach personally- at some point you have to start negotiating and see what you can get before the market dries up, but that's the approach the front office has taken. 

I do think there is a slight possibility the Jets have a wink-wink agreement in place pending Wilson's physical, but if there is higher ups in the FO don't know about it, and I think that's more wishful thinking/hoping the Jets have taken a more competent approach than what they're currently doing 

Hey, just curious because I believe and genuinely appreciate your posts... do you have any concern that you're revealing just a little too much and that your contacts in the org are on to the fact that you're sharing here? Or is it not a big deal to them since you're not really hurting their positions in any way?

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5 minutes ago, football guy said:

Agreed. But I will say man, I really wouldn't discount Seattle. They're the one team crazy enough to figure out a way to bring Darnold in-house, sit him for a year, then figure out next year whether they'll trade Russell Wilson and move forward with Sam or just let him walk and recoup the comp pick. I think they'd have to get reallly creative to make it work because they have no draft capital, but Pete Carroll and John Schneider love Sam.  

Interesting.  Their draft cupboard is as bare as I think I've ever seen in the history of the draft.  One 2nd, one 4th, one 7th.  

In a way, I wonder if a creative trade of Sam plus a draft pick for a player doesn't make more sense for them.  They are mashed up against the cap as it is.  I don't have any idea who that player might be (no...not Jamal thank you!) but it seems like a scenario that could work if the right player was there.  Someone who could start for us, and has a low dead money number.  Not sure that guy exists there though.

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9 minutes ago, football guy said:

 

Personally, I think the process they developed was playing it too safe, and not being willing to abandon the process may cost them a bit on the trade front. That said, just in speaking with people in the industry it seems like if/when Joe makes Sam available he'll get traded rather quickly. 

Do you think that this conservative approach of not wanting to make a decision too soon has - ironically - made the decision for them?  It seems that by not playing the negotiating game sooner, the window on either trading the pick OR Sam for FMV has closed, and now they are basically locked in to keeping the #2 pick - and therefore selecting a QB. Or do you think they would consider using the pick on a non-QB at this point? I personally don't think they take the TE or LT at #2.

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19 hours ago, football guy said:

I gotta say what makes me laugh the most is how posters on a Jets message board act like they know more than people who actually work in the front office and on the coaching staff, but if it makes you feel better continue convincing yourself this 

In fairness, many posters on here could have done a better job running things than the previous two GMs.

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2 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

Do you think that this conservative approach of not wanting to make a decision too soon has - ironically - made the decision for them?  It seems that by not playing the negotiating game sooner, the window on either trading the pick OR Sam for FMV has closed, and now they are basically locked in to keeping the #2 pick - and therefore selecting a QB. Or do you think they would consider using the pick on a non-QB at this point? I personally don't think they take the TE or LT at #2.

It’s much easier to trade darnold than it is to trade out of 2 and still land in the top 8 and get the draft capital you want.  

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