Would JD keep Sam and let him walk for nothing?

[JohnnyLV]

28 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I don't  think that would be enough. They would want next year's first

I would consider giving them 1st and 2nd next year Sam and a third this year for 8. 8 will have exceptional value this year. And from what I hear Carolina still wants Watson

[slimjasi]

Just now, bitonti said:

Cheap qb contracts are still like 8 mil per 

He's not getting the vet minimum 

I'm telling you man, I think that's probably going to be like a 5th round pick. 

[rangerous]

if darnold walks as a free agent don't the jets get a compensatory pick?  and if he walks as the qb doesn't that picks get pretty high?  seems to me if they can only get a third rounder in a trade they may as well keep him and possibly start him.  there's no guarantee that wilson will win a training camp battle.

[genot]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

All he ever does is tell the world that Adam Gase is an awesome coach. I suspect he doesn't have as much confidence as you think he does. 

You remember in 2019 he went into Gase's office to talk about the offense. Not sure about the specifics. A 2nd year player expressing his apparent frustration, tells us something. He wasn't allowed to audible. The one time he did, it was an 80 yd td to Robby. A TE he was building some chemistry with, almost never a part of the gameplan. That was last year. How could he be happy with that. Maybe that's one of his faults. He just doesn't want to create any friction. Too docile.

[More Cowbell]

7 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Yeah I get that but Herbet's OL was complete and utter sh*te too and he performed OK. I was as big of a Sam fan as anyone but I think the reality is that Sam is just not that good.

Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Hunter Henry,  Austin Ekler. 

[slimjasi]

Just now, genot said:

You remember in 2019 he went into Gase's office to talk about the offense. Not sure about the specifics. A 2nd year player expressing his apparent frustration, tells us something. He wasn't allowed to audible. The one time he did, it was an 80 yd td to Robby. A TE he was building some chemistry with, almost never a part of the gameplan. That was last year. How could he be happy with that. Maybe that's one of his faults. He just doesn't want to create any friction. Too docile.

Indeed. 

 

3 minutes ago, rangerous said:

if darnold walks as a free agent don't the jets get a compensatory pick?  and if he walks as the qb doesn't that picks get pretty high?  seems to me if they can only get a third rounder in a trade they may as well keep him and possibly start him.  there's no guarantee that wilson will win a training camp battle.

No, it's not going to be very high and will definitely be less than a 3rd rounder:

https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

[The Crusher]

26 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Watch Sam outplay Wilson next season as a jet and he leaves via free agency

Im still waiting for Sam  to outplay Baker Mayfield. You knocking Wilson  is actually good news for whoever drafts Wilson. That being said I prefer anyone but Sam and Fields over Mormon Manziel any day. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

We have heard there are 8 teams asking about Sam...

I don't believe those rumors, personally.  I think the market today for Sam Darnold is quite small, and primarily as a backup option.

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

...and we have heard the Jets will be lucky to get a 4th for him.

I agree.  Sam's value is minimal at current.  On par with what someone might get, for example, if they were trading for Josh Rosen today.  i.e. not much, and certainly not a 1st, 2nd or 3rd in my opinion.

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Does anyone think JD cares either way?

Personally I don't.  I think JD is looking at Sam the same way  he looked at Flacco, not my guy, if we get nothing for him it's not on me so Sam is probably  going to be on the team in 2021. This doesn't  mean JD doesn't  take a QB if he feels the guy on the board is the guy he wants  to attach his legacy to. For that matter, I personally  think he is not locked into one of these QB's, I think his first pick is going to be another OL. 

I think JD and Saleh like Sam, and understand Sam has been in a pretty bad place the first years of his deal, with poor coaching, poor O-line, poor O-skill players and poor schemes poorly designed for his skill set and talents.

I think they could be willing to retain Sam, and have him compete against whomever they draft at #2 overall.  

With that said, it's unlikely.  95% of Fans hate the idea (they seem to be big fans of the "anointed guy" who never has to compete for their job, oddly) and it IS admitted uncommon to keep your three-year-bust #1 pick QB when you draft a new #1 pick QB, although it has happened. 

I would retain Sam.  I would be fine losing him "for nothing" if it came to that, I don't value a castoff late 4th very highly.  I would make Sam and the Draft Pick QB compete, winner starts.  Draft Pick doesn't see the field till he earns it by beating out our "bust" Sam in a fair, open competition, on the field.  And once that happens, Sam is fine for a year as our backup, and gives Morgan another year to hopefully develop into a legit #2 QB (otherwise why the hell is he on the roster, right?)  

I'm just not weeping over "but muh broken locker room" or "too much pressure on the rookie" or similar arguments.  Beat out Sam if you want to start.  Should be easy right, if the Draft pick is so damn good and Sam so damn bad, right?

Or sure, trade Sam, draft a #4 CB or another developmental maybe-in-three-years-EDGE in the 4th I suppose.

[genot]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

I don't believe those rumors, personally.  I think the market today for Sam Darnold is quite small, and primarily as a backup option.

I agree.  Sam's value is minimal at current.  On par with what someone might get, for example, if they were trading for Josh Rosen today.  i.e. not much, and certainly not a 1st, 2nd or 3rd in my opinion.

I think JD and Saleh like Sam, and understand Sam has been in a pretty bad place the first years of his deal, with poor coaching, poor O-line, poor O-skill players and poor schemes poorly designed for his skill set and talents.

I think they could be willing to retain Sam, and have him compete against whomever they draft at #2 overall.  

With that said, it's unlikely.  95% of Fans hate the idea (they seem to be big fans of the "anointed guy" who never has to compete for their job, oddly) and it IS admitted uncommon to keep your three-year-bust #1 pick QB when you draft a new #1 pick QB, although it has happened. 

I would retain Sam.  I would be fine losing him "for nothing" if it came to that, I don't value a castoff late 4th very highly.  I would make Sam and the Draft Pick QB compete, winner starts.  Draft Pick doesn't see the field till he earns it by beating out our "bust" Sam in a fair, open competition, on the field.  And once that happens, Sam is fine for a year as our backup, and gives Morgan another year to hopefully develop into a legit #2 QB (otherwise why the hell is he on the roster, right?)  

I'm just not weeping over "but muh broken locker room" or "too much pressure on the rookie" or similar arguments.  Beat out Sam if you want to start.  Should be easy right, if the Draft pick is so damn good and Sam so damn bad, right?

Or sure, trade Sam, draft a #4 CB or another developmental maybe-in-three-years-EDGE in the 4th I suppose.

It might create a locker room problem. Sam is well liked. JD and Saleh need to understand that keeping Sam and drafting a QB could create a Sam camp and a Wilson camp in that locker room. Not good.

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Sitting him for a season would help. It worked for Mahomes

I agree.  I would love for him to sit for most of his rookie year.

But, is Sam the best person for him to be sitting under?  I would say no. 

Heck, want to follow the Mahomes model - then bring in Alex Smith.  That, to me, is a much better fit.

Sam will be fighting for his career - can cause real disfunction - Alex Smith will clearly understand his role.

[More Cowbell]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree.  I would love for him to sit for most of his rookie year.

But, is Sam the best person for him to be sitting under?  I would say no. 

Heck, want to follow the Mahomes model - then bring in Alex Smith.  That, to me, is a much better fit.

Sam will be fighting for his career - can cause real disfunction - Alex Smith will clearly understand his role.

Oh please. Alex Smith will play well for 3 or 4 games and then get hurt. Ueah, he would beat out both Sam and the rookie as the starter in an open competition  but the guy is glass. 

Also, if Sam plays as badly as you are afraid he will, the rookie will beat him out unless you expect Sam lights it up in preseason and then sucks in the real games. 

[peekskill68]

21 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I'm telling you man, I think that's probably going to be like a 5th round pick. 

With a decision of this magnitude over his head, I can't imagine JD is going to jump on a 3rd round offer pre-draft vs. the risk of seeing that slip to a 4th or 5th round comp pick...

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, peekskill68 said:

With a decision of this magnitude over his head, I can't imagine JD is going to jump on a 3rd round offer pre-draft vs. the risk of seeing that slip to a 4th or 5th round comp pick...

Sam may very well not be traded until draft weekend like Rosen was. 

[Biggs]

Douglas is mister value.  We will trade the pick and keep Sam.  The supposedly lust for Wilson is part of pushing the value of the pick up.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Douglas is mister value.  We will trade the pick and keep Sam.  The supposedly lust for Wilson is part of pushing the value of the pick up.

Who is the trade partner? 

[Beerfish]

He should 100% for sure keep him and let him walk if all we are being offered is a 4th rounder.

You have to set an example for futures moves that you are not going to roll over and cave in on trades if you feel the value is not there.

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Who is the trade partner? 

Carolina or the Eagles.

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

He should 100% for sure keep him and let him walk if all we are being offered is a 4th rounder.

You have to set an example for futures moves that you are not going to roll over and cave in on trades if you feel the value is not there.

Right so when we cut him we send a message to the league that they can't trade with us because we have no sense of NFL value.  

[Warfish]

20 minutes ago, genot said:

It might create a locker room problem.

Only if the rookie isn't as good as Sam, yet "wins" the job.

NFL players don't break up locker rooms if one players is clearly better than the other.

Also, the entire idea is laughable, Sam simply isn't a "break the locker room" kinda guy.

20 minutes ago, genot said:

Sam is well liked. JD and Saleh need to understand that keeping Sam and drafting a QB could create a Sam camp and a Wilson camp in that locker room. Not good.

The value of making our draft pick compete, and win the job against an actual competitor who can put up a fight, is worth it.

 

[slimjasi]

Just now, Biggs said:

Carolina or the Eagles.

The Eagles are extremely unlikely to trade up to #2 after trading back to #12. The cost will be astronomical and they seem to have chosen trading back instead of trading up. 

The Panthers are possible but they were supposedly enamored with Watson. I would think they would try to wait that situation out. And again, the cost would be astronomical. 

I personally don't see a team that is going to be that desperate to get to #2. 

[Beerfish]

6 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Right so when we cut him we send a message to the league that they can't trade with us because we have no sense of NFL value.  

No we are not going to cut him.

We are keeping him and then letting him walk next year, unless of course he plays this year and lights it up then we may do something else.

Our job is not to do other teams favors and handing a 23 year old QB who was very highly thought of before Gase got his claws into him to another team for a 4th rounder is caving in.

The next time you're are dealing with gms they will try and take advantage of you.

At some point in all negotiations you need to be able to walk away if the price isn't right and not just say...oh well i guess the other side is right I'll lower my price to what they want.

[Jet Life]

Sams value is nonexistent. As Kimberley Martin reported the other day, teams aren’t going to pick up the option. So you are basically trading an asset for a year of Sam, trying to correct all his flaws that made him a bottom tier QB, while he learns a new system , then he’s a free agent. If we only get offered a day 3 pick, I’d just keep him and let him compete with the draft pick. 

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

The Eagles are extremely unlikely to trade up to #2 after trading back to #12. The cost will be astronomical and they seem to have chosen trading back instead of trading up. 

The Panthers are possible but they were supposedly enamored with Watson. I would think they would try to wait that situation out. And again, the cost would be astronomical. 

I personally don't see a team that is going to be that desperate to get to #2. 

Philadelphia is sitting on 3 firsts next year.  I think the all in on Hurts may be BS.  I also think the Bears are willing to give up a ton of picks and a starting high quality player to move up.   I'm sure once they put the Andy Dalton statue in the living room the owners wife told him I really don't care what you paid for it.  Not in my house.

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No we are not going to cut him.

We are keeping him and then letting him walk next year, unless of course he plays this year and lights it up then we may do something else.

Our job is not to do other teams favors and handing a 23 year old QB who was very highly thought of before Gase got his claws into him to another team for a 4th rounder is caving in.

The next time you're are dealing with gms they will try and take advantage of you.

At some point in all negotiations you need to be able to walk away if the price isn't right and not just say...oh well i guess the other side is right I'll lower my price to what they want.

By letting him walk you mean getting nothing for him. 

[Icer]

I can't wait til they trade him for a bag of chips so we can stop talking about it already

[genot]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Only if the rookie isn't as good as Sam, yet "wins" the job.

NFL players don't break up locker rooms if one players is clearly better than the other.

Also, the entire idea is laughable, Sam simply isn't a "break the locker room" kinda guy.

The value of making our draft pick compete, and win the job against an actual competitor who can put up a fight, is worth it.

 

What if they grade out equally. Yes. If one QB is clearly ahead of the other. No problems. If they both are impressive, that could create issues. QB controversy isn't an issue that Saleh or JD would want to deal with.

[Lurker89]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

The best thing for Zach is to be drafted by a different franchise 

Side note the floor is a 3rd because eventually he will garner a comp 3rd 

We will not get a 3rd for Sam.... 

The Bears are projected a 2022 7th rounder for Trubisky ...

Sam leaves and signs a backup contract somewhere we will get virtually nothing.

[slimjasi]

Just now, Biggs said:

Philadelphia is sitting on 3 firsts next year.  I think the all in on Hurts may be BS.  I also think the Bears are willing to give up a ton of picks and a starting high quality player to move up.   I'm sure once they put the Andy Dalton statue in the living room the owners wife told him I really don't care what you paid for it.  Not in my house.

The other issue is that the Jets supposedly have no interest in moving outside of the top 10 (which makes sense)

I just don't see it, but we'll find out soon enough. 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

By letting him walk you mean getting nothing for him. 

low comp pick

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The other issue is that the Jets supposedly have no interest in moving outside of the top 10 (which makes sense)

I just don't see it, but we'll find out soon enough. 

I think that's true but if we could get one of Chicago's high quality players in the deal like an elite WR or DE/Linebacker plus picks they might be able to do it. 

[genot]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The Eagles are extremely unlikely to trade up to #2 after trading back to #12. The cost will be astronomical and they seem to have chosen trading back instead of trading up. 

The Panthers are possible but they were supposedly enamored with Watson. I would think they would try to wait that situation out. And again, the cost would be astronomical. 

I personally don't see a team that is going to be that desperate to get to #2. 

The Falcons could be the team to watch. Especially if they're not sure who San Fran might draft. They won't have to give up that much too move up. And they have a veteran that can hold the fort for a year.

[Lurker89]

 

WE DO NOT GET A THIRD ROUND PICK FOR SAM IF HE WALKS.... 

Check your math people... The comp pick is based on the contract they sign in free agency.... If they sign say a 1 year 2.5 mil contract you may get a 7th rounder ... You may get nothing... (See: Chicago Bears/ Trubisky)

 

JFC

 

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

low comp pick

Comp picks are great but if Sam bombs another year and we release him and he signs onto a practice squad would we got one?

[JetFreak89]

8 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Carolina or the Eagles.

Not going to happen. Ian Rappaport reported last week or the week before that the Eagles were trying to trade up to 3 with Miami but would only do so for Zach Wilson. Why didn't that happen? Miami would have likely preferred that scenario instead of getting the Niners involved and having to move back up to 6 from 12.

The only reasonable explanation is that Howie Roseman called his former protege Joe Douglas and asked 1) If he was willing to trade the pick (if you are willing to trade up to 3 for a QB why not 2?) and the answer was no. 2) If he trades up to 3 with MIA, will Zach Wilson be there for him? JD wouldn't screw his mentor by having him trade up from 6 to 3 and then taking the player he was targeting so JD told Roseman not to make the deal with Miami. 

[Biggs]

3 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

Not going to happen. Ian Rappaport reported last week or the week before that the Eagles were trying to trade up to 3 with Miami but would only do so for Zach Wilson. Why didn't that happen? Miami would have likely preferred that scenario instead of getting the Niners involved and having to move back up to 6 from 12.

The only reasonable explanation is that Howie Roseman called his former protege Joe Douglas and asked 1) If he was willing to trade the pick (if you are willing to trade up to 3 for a QB why not 2?) and the answer was no. 2) If he trades up to 3 with MIA, will Zach Wilson be there for him? JD wouldn't screw his mentor by having him trade up from 6 to 3 and then taking the player he was targeting so JD told Roseman not to make the deal with Miami. 

It may not have happened because SF outbid them?  We simply don't have enough information to really know.  The other factor is how friendly these guys really are?  Are they all BS each other to create value or a smoke screen?  Really hard to know.  Rapport has a good rep but he's definitely being used until the draft happens.