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So, we gave up what for "not" so Doug Jolley?


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This is the kind of crap that makes me wonder...WTF? We gave up a 1st rounder for Jolley and now we are one of the teams interested in Putzier who we couldn't get last season...amazing.

By Scout.com

Date: Mar 3, 2006

The recently released Bronco is already attracting interest from several NFL clubs

According to a source with knowledge of the situation, scout.com has learned that the New York Jets and Houston Texans have strong interest in signing former Denver Broncos TE Jeb Putzier who was released on Wednesday.

The Jets extended an offersheet to the then restricted free agent Putzier last year which Denver wound up matching. The problem is New York doesn't currently have the salary cap room to sign him.

Houston could use a tight end with pass catching skills. They haven't had a good receiver at the tight end position since Billy Miller played for them (2002-2004).

It's also believed that the San Francisco 49ers also have some interest in Putzier. Oft-injured TE Eric Johnson is on the final year of his contract. However, Putzier will be looking for a starting job so the chances of him winding up with San Francisco aren't strong.

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This is the kind of crap that makes me wonder...WTF? We gave up a 1st rounder for Jolley and now we are one of the teams interested in Putzier who we couldn't get last season...amazing.

By Scout.com

Date: Mar 3, 2006

The recently released Bronco is already attracting interest from several NFL clubs

According to a source with knowledge of the situation, scout.com has learned that the New York Jets and Houston Texans have strong interest in signing former Denver Broncos TE Jeb Putzier who was released on Wednesday.

The Jets extended an offersheet to the then restricted free agent Putzier last year which Denver wound up matching. The problem is New York doesn't currently have the salary cap room to sign him.

Houston could use a tight end with pass catching skills. They haven't had a good receiver at the tight end position since Billy Miller played for them (2002-2004).

It's also believed that the San Francisco 49ers also have some interest in Putzier. Oft-injured TE Eric Johnson is on the final year of his contract. However, Putzier will be looking for a starting job so the chances of him winding up with San Francisco aren't strong.

Baker is an UFA and Putz is a guy the Jets like. He was cut in a cost cutting move and is back on the open market. No reason the Jets shouldn't take a look.

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once again, we did not give up a 1st rounder for Jolley..Im not going into specifics again, go through archives and find it..

Come on 13, the Jets gave up a 1st-rounder for Jolley.

The vast majority of Jet fan posters say they did, so it must be true.;)

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Net for the Jolley Trade:

Jets traded

1st-round pick (#26 overall)

7th-round pick (#230 overall)

Jets received

TE Doug Jolley

2nd round pick (#47 overall) = K Mike Nugent

6th round pick (#182 overall) = RB Cedric Houston

6th round pick (#185 overall) = traded with our orig Rd 4 pick to move up a couple slots & took S Kerry Rhodes who may or may not have been there anyway

Draft pick value of Doug Jolley in this trade was 3(7) = #71 overall

#26 = 700 pts

#230 = ~1 pt

--------------

701 pts

#47 = 430 pts

#182 = 18.6

#185 = 17.4

--------------

466 pts

701 - 466 = 235 pts = value of #71 overall (3rd pick in Round 7)

The way Bradway looked at it (read: spinned it), we drafted Doug Jolley with the #71 pick in 2005. (Coincidentally, with the #71 pick Tampa Bay selected a TE: Alex Smith.)

How many people here would be happy this year if we traded our 3rd-round pick (#71 overall) for Doug Jolley before the draft started? Raise your hands. Maybe put it a different way. Since we already own the #71 pick, who here would be unhappy if we traded Jolley away for the #70 or #72 pick this year?

Let's see those hands!!!

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We did trade away a first rounder for Jolley. We got some compensation in return, no doubt, but in taking Jolley we were not left with our original 1st round pick. We had no first round pick last year. None. So in essence, we gave up a first round pick for Jolley and change. With that same pick we could have taken TE Heath Miller. who here would have preferred Heath Miller to Doug Jolley....Show of hands?

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Q: Why didn't the Jets have a first round pick last year?

A: Because they traded for Doug Jolley.

Just because we got a kicker and a third-string running back out of the deal doesn't make it any less retarded. Vince Young would be a better GM than Terry Bradway.

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Q: Why didn't the Jets have a first round pick last year?

A: Because they traded for Doug Jolley.

Just because we got a kicker and a third-string running back out of the deal doesn't make it any less retarded. Vince Young would be a better GM than Terry Bradway.

POTW NOM

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Another simple way to put it - we received 4 players for two players on paper. I still think it was a very good deal.

Not if the 4 players you received all suck. The only "good" player we got in that deal was a kicker in Nugent and no way him and Jolley are worth a first round pick.

If Bradway didn't make that trade we would have had Heath Miller in the first round. The same Heath Miller who was the best rookie tight end last year and helped the Steelers get to the super bowl. That's how you know it was a bad deal.

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Ok, he basically traded a 1st rounder for Jolley and a 2nd Rounder. The rest of the trade is pretty much ancillary. Realistically, most late rounders don't even make the team. As people have said, no matter what, we don't have a first rounder and we do have Jolley. I don't know where this nonsense started, but basically in any other trade people don't claim you didn't trade something that you did. If we trade a First Round pick for someone else's First Round pick and maybe their third, people don't say "We didn't trade our First Rounder."

I think this is another holdover from the bygone Terry and Herm era. Spinning and making excuses, and just hoping people repeat your excuses enough that others will believe them.

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The point isn't that it wasn't a bad trade, it certainly hasn't been completely justified yet, imo.

Ok, he basically traded a 1st rounder for Jolley and a 2nd Rounder. The rest of the trade is pretty much ancillary. Realistically, most late rounders don't even make the team. As people have said, no matter what, we don't have a first rounder and we do have Jolley. I don't know where this nonsense started, but basically in any other trade people don't claim you didn't trade something that you did. If we trade a First Round pick for someone else's First Round pick and maybe their third, people don't say "We didn't trade our First Rounder."

I think this is another holdover from the bygone Terry and Herm era. Spinning and making excuses, and just hoping people repeat your excuses enough that others will believe them.

People aren't saying "we didn't trade our First Rounder." I don't see how you can say that people are spinning this, when in fact you're the one who are spinning what others are saying. What people are saying is that "We didn't trade our first round pick for jolley alone." Would we have traded Jolley straight up for our first rounder? No way, and thats not what we did. No one would be arguing about this if we had done that, cause it would be a completely ridiculous trade. So when people twist the trade around to help them convince people that the jolley deal was a complete mistake, people who want to be fair are going to speak up. Even if they agree it was a mistake, just to present both sides of the story.

The same Heath Miller who was the best rookie tight end last year and helped the Steelers get to the super bowl. That's how you know it was a bad deal.
The same Heath Miller who would have had no impact if he was on the jets last year. I wonder if you guys would be calling him a bust. I mean, he caught 10 more passes for 135 more yards than Jolley did last season while on a much better offense w/a better QB. Sure he caught 6 TD to Jolleys 1. He probably wouldn't have caught any more than that on our team last year. Jolley definitely needs to learn how to block better if he's going to justify the trade though.

This is the same argument people are using to justify not trading down this year. Trade Brick/Cutler(Heath Miller) this year so you can get lower OT/QB etc and later lower QB/OT/etc (Jolley) and hope one or both of them pan out.

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The same Heath Miller who would have had no impact if he was on the jets last year. I wonder if you guys would be calling him a bust. I mean, he caught 10 more passes for 135 more yards than Jolley did last season while on a much better offense w/a better QB. Sure he caught 6 TD to Jolleys 1. He probably wouldn't have caught any more than that on our team last year. Jolley definitely needs to learn how to block better if he's going to justify the trade though.

This is the same argument people are using to justify not trading down this year. Trade Brick/Cutler(Heath Miller) this year so you can get lower OT/QB etc and later lower QB/OT/etc (Jolley) and hope one or both of them pan out.

Do you know how bad your post looks when you can't even go a paragraph without a huge contradiction? Heath Miller is known for his blocking. That's why he was on the field so much for the Steelers, everyone RAVED about his blocking abilities. Jolley can't even get out onto the field since he can't block! For a team with such a horrible blocking performance as last year, you don't think Heath Miller wouldn't have made an impact on the Jets? Are you nuts?

And I don't know about you, but there is a HUGE difference between 6 TDs and 1 TD for a TE, especially when you consider Jolley's one TD was pretty much a fluke, and outside of one game he really didn't do anything. Miller blocked AND did a better pass catching job. And you're trying to spin it as if Jolley and Miller are equal, that Miller wouldn't have done any better than Jolley? Ridiculous man, really ridiculous.

I too hope Jolley improves this year, but I'm not in denial. Miller is a LOT better than Jolley, and this was a huge mistake in terms of talent evaluation by Bradway.

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Do you know how bad your post looks when you can't even go a paragraph without a huge contradiction? Heath Miller is known for his blocking. That's why he was on the field so much for the Steelers, everyone RAVED about his blocking abilities. Jolley can't even get out onto the field since he can't block! For a team with such a horrible blocking performance as last year, you don't think Heath Miller wouldn't have made an impact on the Jets? Are you nuts?

And I don't know about you, but there is a HUGE difference between 6 TDs and 1 TD for a TE, especially when you consider Jolley's one TD was pretty much a fluke, and outside of one game he really didn't do anything. Miller blocked AND did a better pass catching job. And you're trying to spin it as if Jolley and Miller are equal, that Miller wouldn't have done any better than Jolley? Ridiculous man, really ridiculous.

I too hope Jolley improves this year, but I'm not in denial. Miller is a LOT better than Jolley, and this was a huge mistake in terms of talent evaluation by Bradway.

Sharrow's got some good points, but I have to totally disagree that Jolley is even close to Miller as far as value. Miller is a rookie, Jolley is a journeyman meaning we've seen what his capabilities are and he doesn't have the potential of Miller. As far as Miller playing for a better team, The Steelers had the fewest passing plays of any team in the entire league (including the Jets) and still a rookie rolled up much better stats than our poor blocking, pass dropping Jolley. Facts is facts.

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Do you know how bad your post looks when you can't even go a paragraph without a huge contradiction? Heath Miller is known for his blocking. That's why he was on the field so much for the Steelers, everyone RAVED about his blocking abilities. Jolley can't even get out onto the field since he can't block! For a team with such a horrible blocking performance as last year, you don't think Heath Miller wouldn't have made an impact on the Jets? Are you nuts?

Well, first of all, which is the huge contradiction? My first paragraph was the sentence "The point isn't that it wasn't a bad trade, it certainly hasn't been completely justified yet, imo." And there's one paragraph without a contradiction, so you're wrong already ;)

Anyway, if you look at my second to last paragraph, I say, "Jolley definitely needs to learn how to block better if he's going to justify the trade though."

And you're right, I should have said "minor impact" instead of no impact. Our offensive line still would have sucked majorly though.

And I don't know about you, but there is a HUGE difference between 6 TDs and 1 TD for a TE, especially when you consider Jolley's one TD was pretty much a fluke, and outside of one game he really didn't do anything. Miller blocked AND did a better pass catching job. And you're trying to spin it as if Jolley and Miller are equal, that Miller wouldn't have done any better than Jolley? Ridiculous man, really ridiculous.
Of course there's a big difference between 1 and 6 touchdowns. Thats why I mentioned the steeler's offense and the quarterback difference. Bollinger sucks, while Miller was Big Ben's go-to-guy in the red zone. We were barely ever in the red zone at all. The steelers had one of the best TD conversion percentages in the league, our offense just sucked and badly. Heath might have gotten 1 or 2, maybe 3 TD last year on the jets if he was lucky. No way does he get 6 on that team.

I too hope Jolley improves this year, but I'm not in denial. Miller is a LOT better than Jolley, and this was a huge mistake in terms of talent evaluation by Bradway.
I'm sorry if I didn't make it as obvious as I could, but when I said "Would we have traded Jolley straight up for our first rounder? No way, and thats not what we did. No one would be arguing about this if we had done that, cause it would be a completely ridiculous trade." I meant that he wasn't worth that 1st rounder, hence not worth a Heath Miller caliber player.

Sharrow's got some good points, but I have to totally disagree that Jolley is even close to Miller as far as value. Miller is a rookie, Jolley is a journeyman meaning we've seen what his capabilities are and he doesn't have the potential of Miller. As far as Miller playing for a better team, The Steelers had the fewest passing plays of any team in the entire league (including the Jets) and still a rookie rolled up much better stats than our poor blocking, pass dropping Jolley. Facts is facts.
Thats a good point about the few passing plays, and its well taken. He could have done a lot better if their offense was more pass oriented, and I don't want to take away from how good of a player this kid really is and he will get even better. But that doesn't necessarily mean he would have done any better on our team last year with our POS offense.
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