All Page 1 Zach Wilson Threads: MERGED

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

The ambulance throws are a problem. That's a legit knock on Wilson. 

And it's odd about the OSU system. Most of the "tape" I watch is from that QB School channel, and JT O'Sullivan loves how they scheme guys open and attack defenses - generally speaking. 

But I'd agree it does seem weird they're not using Fields' athleticism with designed bootlegs, whereas clearly Wilson running that wide-zone Shanahan scheme does a lot of that.

FWIW, in the Fields pro day thread, Paradis shared a video of someone breaking that piece down as well...

 

[bitonti]

Zach Wilson is known for throwing off of "mobile platforms" at "irregular angles" 

Throwing at odd angles puts stress on throwing shoulder. It is not fundamentally sound. When your feet are clicking in the air, the arm does all the work

honest question Is it fair to wonder if the labrum issues are related of the odd way he throws? could his "gift" of throwing odd actually increase the risk of injuring himself in the future? 

 

 

[BroadwayJoe12]

21 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Zach Wilson is known for throwing off of "mobile platforms" at "irregular angles" 

Throwing at odd angles puts stress on throwing shoulder. It is not fundamentally sound. When your feet are clicking in the air, the arm does all the work

honest question Is it fair to wonder if the labrum issues are related of the odd way he throws? could his "gift" of throwing odd actually increase the risk of injuring himself in the future? 

 

 

Probably not, but there's little data in football to support your musings one way or the other. Best we can do is extrapolate from baseball and we know that the overhead throw is the most non-shoulder-friendly motion, whereas more "unnatural" arm slots actually are more shoulder-friendly (e.g. 3/4, sidearm, underhand etc...). 

[LionelRichie]

9 hours ago, JiF said:

 

I love you brother, but forgive me for interfering this lovely rant.  I will never get in the way of a good ripping of Philc but to make the comment above, shorty after this post, I just had chuckle and comment.

I watched that Coastal Carolina game, multiple times and was thoroughly unimpressed.  And it's funny you bring this game up in this thread because that game specifically I remember the announcers making the Pat Mahomes comparison because threw a laser across his body both feet in the air and nailed his guy in the #'s, pretty ironic given the thread.  3 years ago that was the biggest no-no in Football and now we're looking for this?   That game showcased the big time concerns of Zach Wilson; inaccurate, bad footwork, fading in clean pockets, running from clean pockets, inability to climb the pocket he just wants to leave it, careless with his body running the ball, hold the ball like a loaf of bread when he runs (didnt he just out right drop the ball once scrambling on this tape?).  This 1 minute drill you guys are drooling over, it 4 plays, inaccurate pass but great adjustment, a check down, a slant, a wide open sideline throw CC didnt cover for some reason and then threw it 10 yards short of the endzone on the last play of the game, you'd kill Sam Darnold if he did that...doesnt mean I didnt watch, dont know what I'm watching or just look at the stats. 

 

 

I watched that game too and was equally unimpressed.   It was a lot of running the ball and I kept waiting for Wilson to dominate and it just never happened.   

I actually think the hype for several of these QB's is a function of the relatively week '22 class.   If you want a QB, now is the time to make it happen or you're going to get bullied into Bo Nix as the savior. 

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

16 minutes ago, LionelRichie said:

I watched that game too and was equally unimpressed.   It was a lot of running the ball and I kept waiting for Wilson to dominate and it just never happened.   

I actually think the hype for several of these QB's is a function of the relatively week '22 class.   If you want a QB, now is the time to make it happen or you're going to get bullied into Bo Nix as the savior. 

 

This whole process is interesting to observe what people see in these games.

The game in question, BYU v Coastal Carolina, is considered Wilson's worst from last year.

Hell I'd throw on the tape of Ohio State v Northwestern or Indiana and see how Justin's bad tape compares.

All three games saw a quarterback under duress that usually plays with a clean pocket.

But I think Wilson looked better than Fields in their respective 'bad tape(s)' by a country mile.

[JustInFudge]

21 minutes ago, LionelRichie said:

I watched that game too and was equally unimpressed.   It was a lot of running the ball and I kept waiting for Wilson to dominate and it just never happened.   

I actually think the hype for several of these QB's is a function of the relatively week '22 class.   If you want a QB, now is the time to make it happen or you're going to get bullied into Bo Nix as the savior. 

 

Possibly but like Wilson and Jones every year some player will emerge but I do agree looking at things right now, if you need a QB, probably the better year.  Rarely do have 3 prospects like Lawrence/Fields/Lance who were all hyped prospects prior to the season and still being talked about as possible all going top 5.  Very rare.  

[flgreen]

Hughes says, the trade down is dead, it's Wilson.    At least he is sure of it.  

[adobolo2]

I've argued against Wilson but that boat has sailed, I still have reservations but when you see a throw like this it makes me go WOW. 

 

 

[BroadwayRay]

8 hours ago, adobolo2 said:

I'm out of work due the the pandemic in my country so I've had noting to do except engross myself into the whole Wilson debate. 

I don't have my own All 22 tape of BYU games, that's what I meant by saying I don't have the tools or resources to show examples of my opinion, I can only watch the games from the TV view point and watch other people going over the all 22.

I have seen a number of "experts" say it, Dan orlovsky (yes the same Dan who likes Darnold, so I know his opinion doesn't hold much with a lot of people around here) did a brake down yesterday and he pointed it out a few times. Every qb misses open players, it's not until the tape is gone trough with a fine tooth combe that it becomes obvious.

https://youtu.be/9CyxRhCL-qs

Good video. I’ve noticed in reading a bunch of analysis over the past few months that Lawrence and Fields have also been criticized for needing work in anticipation throws, ie releasing the ball before the receiver gets open. Could it be that college QBs in today’s game aren’t asked to make that type of throw very often? In any case, the point is that none of these guys are finished products. College QBs rarely are. 

[CTM]

On 3/29/2021 at 5:49 PM, JiF said:

It's the Pat Mahomes effect, for sure.  It's a copycat league.  You see a few players where he does some wild throw down field and you're like dude, thats Mahomes and ignore the fact, there is only 1 Mahomes on the planet.

Before this season, Zach Wilson threw 12/11 TD's respectively each season at BYU, regressed freshman to sophomore year.  During that same time, Sam Darnold was the youngest starter in the history of the NFL starting on one of the worst Football teams in the league surrounded by the worst offensive talent in the league and he threw for 17/19 TD's respectively and progressed in every single passing category. 

Another fun thought; when Zach Wilson was licking his wounds after a loss to Coastal Carolina, Sam Darnold went on the road and led the worst team in the NFL to their first win of the season vs. the 1 Defense in the NFL.  

 

Not a Wilson fan but Darnold sucks and is doing the same crap here he did sr year.

I'd trade back and target fields if it was my call 

[CTM]

9 hours ago, adobolo2 said:

I'm out of work due the the pandemic in my country so I've had noting to do except engross myself into the whole Wilson debate. 

I don't have my own All 22 tape of BYU games, that's what I meant by saying I don't have the tools or resources to show examples of my opinion, I can only watch the games from the TV view point and watch other people going over the all 22.

I have seen a number of "experts" say it, Dan orlovsky (yes the same Dan who likes Darnold, so I know his opinion doesn't hold much with a lot of people around here) did a brake down yesterday and he pointed it out a few times. Every qb misses open players, it's not until the tape is gone trough with a fine tooth combe that it becomes obvious.

https://youtu.be/9CyxRhCL-qs

Even Understanding those clips arent exhaustive its pretty concerning. If you can anticipate and throw your receivers open you cant succeed at the next level. Sam cant do it

[Untouchable]

LOL

Jesus Christ, f*ck these pro-days.

Kids throwing in shorts and a tank top against air has people switching up their stances all over the place.

More than ever this is making me want to trade down for a haul over the next two years and run things back with Darnold. You know, the same kid who blew everyone’s t!ts off with his amazing pro-day in the rain 3 years ago.

[Charlie Brown]

On 3/29/2021 at 5:49 PM, JiF said:

It's the Pat Mahomes effect, for sure.  It's a copycat league.  You see a few players where he does some wild throw down field and you're like dude, thats Mahomes and ignore the fact, there is only 1 Mahomes on the planet.

Before this season, Zach Wilson threw 12/11 TD's respectively each season at BYU, regressed freshman to sophomore year.  During that same time, Sam Darnold was the youngest starter in the history of the NFL starting on one of the worst Football teams in the league surrounded by the worst offensive talent in the league and he threw for 17/19 TD's respectively and progressed in every single passing category. 

Another fun thought; when Zach Wilson was licking his wounds after a loss to Coastal Carolina, Sam Darnold went on the road and led the worst team in the NFL to their first win of the season vs. the 1 Defense in the NFL.  

 

Thank you! You are 100% right of course!

This is the only thing that worries me about the Wilson pick.
 

Wilson has had only one great year out of his last five as fas as I can tell and would benefit IMO from a year of watching, which the Jets fans based on their comments out here by evidence of what they are saying wont tolerate —— because most have Wilson in Canton before he is drafted. 
 

For this and other reasons I think that the 49ers would be a better fit, they have Jimmy G —— and there and under those circumstances he could sit and learn and become a very good QB!

Jets fans are just too impatient.  

[QB1]

9 hours ago, Untouchable said:

LOL

Jesus Christ, f*ck these pro-days.

Kids throwing in shorts and a tank top against air has people switching up their stances all over the place.

More than ever this is making me want to trade down for a haul over the next two years and run things back with Darnold. You know, the same kid who blew everyone’s t!ts off with his amazing pro-day in the rain 3 years ago.

Go back and watch the Darnold pro day side by side, if you don’t see a difference man...

[sackdance]

28 minutes ago, QB1 said:

Go back and watch the Darnold pro day side by side, if you don’t see a difference man...

Yeah, go back and read Untouchable's post. I don't think he's interested in anybody's Pro Day. 

And I'm 100% with him. Lost in the QB hype is what happens when you draft and start a disastrous rookie QB. Everyone seems to judge these players on perceived ceilings alone.  

Also seemingly lost in Jet fan mob mentality is the plain truth that after 3 years starting on three of the weakest teams the Jets have ever produced Darnold has never been the weakest link - no one anywhere can say that these teams were destined to win more games were it not for Sam Darnold's play. (Yet there are endless Jet fans who call Darnold the worst QB in the league as they hold out hope we trade him for a 2nd or 3rd pick)

If you want some comparisons of QBs in trying situations just look at this past Superbowl - without an adequate OL Mahomes offense can't put up a single TD even when he's surrounded by the best skill players in the league.

It bothers me how primed our fanbase is to throw out a baby with the bathwater. We're thin all over the place, haven't won squat in years - but we're blessed with some advantageous draft picks the next two years - so let's not start out by blowing a #2 on what may or may not be the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th best QB in the draft when we don't need a QB like the house is on fire (bc we don't - the whole league would want Sewell, we should too).   

In my opinion at this point is the only case to ditch Darnold would be for contractual reasons. And as far as I can see an argument can be made, though it isn't overwhelming.

[More Cowbell]

On 3/29/2021 at 5:25 PM, BurnleyJet said:

I think more than anything we need a Quarterback!!!!!

I hope he can play, we’ve not had a good one since Joe Willie. It’s about fooking time. Go Jets!

 

The Jets had a lot of good QB'S,  we just have not had a great one. Vinnie was good, Penny was good, Todd was good, you can even say O'Brien was good. 

[More Cowbell]

On 3/29/2021 at 5:32 PM, QB1 said:

Why didn’t anyone else prosper under similar circumstances?

I was one of the biggest Wilson haters on this forum because of the way he looks. The reality is that other than the injury history there is almost no red flags with this player.

The talent is electric and is obvious in film, the pro day just validated it. 

The real difference is not just the QB. Wilson does have an NFL arm and has good deep ball accuracy but his OL gave him all day to survey and find a target. He isn't  getting that here. Everyone  saw what Mahomes became when he was chased all over the field  in the SB. 

[QB1]

25 minutes ago, sackdance said:

Yeah, go back and read Untouchable's post. I don't think he's interested in anybody's Pro Day. 

And I'm 100% with him. Lost in the QB hype is what happens when you draft and start a disastrous rookie QB. Everyone seems to judge these players on perceived ceilings alone.  

Also seemingly lost in Jet fan mob mentality is the plain truth that after 3 years starting on three of the weakest teams the Jets have ever produced Darnold has never been the weakest link - no one anywhere can say that these teams were destined to win more games were it not for Sam Darnold's play. (Yet there are endless Jet fans who call Darnold the worst QB in the league as they hold out hope we trade him for a 2nd or 3rd pick)

If you want some comparisons of QBs in trying situations just look at this past Superbowl - without an adequate OL Mahomes offense can't put up a single TD even when he's surrounded by the best skill players in the league.

It bothers me how primed our fanbase is to throw out a baby with the bathwater. We're thin all over the place, haven't won squat in years - but we're blessed with some advantageous draft picks the next two years - so let's not start out by blowing a #2 on what may or may not be the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th best QB in the draft when we don't need a QB like the house is on fire (bc we don't - the whole league would want Sewell, we should too).   

In my opinion at this point is the only case to ditch Darnold would be for contractual reasons. And as far as I can see an argument can be made, though it isn't overwhelming.

Every single NFL team would draft Wilson at 2 and about half the league would take him at 1 over Trevor. The pro day was simply a validation of what Wilson showed on tape. It wasn’t just a pro day, it was a show... It displayed his natural throwing talent and arm strength- are we going to pretend like those don’t matter? We are taking Wilson because QB is the most important position, Darnold is a broken player with a bad contract situation and Wilson is a special special talent...

[celtasnake]

 

[bitonti]

On 3/29/2021 at 5:58 PM, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Joe Burrow is the main culprit for a guy exploding through with one great year. But I mean Joe exploded against the SEC with historical numbers so it's not even the best comparison.

Joe's burrows knee exploded by week 9 after chase young whammied him. Now the Bengals draft 5, desperately needing offensive line 

Fans of wilson need to stop using burrow as an example. The Bengals hung that dude out to dry 

[RedBeardedSavage]

Have to show the criticism, not just the hype:

 

[Jet Nut]

18 hours ago, bitonti said:

Zach Wilson is known for throwing off of "mobile platforms" at "irregular angles" 

Throwing at odd angles puts stress on throwing shoulder. It is not fundamentally sound. When your feet are clicking in the air, the arm does all the work

honest question Is it fair to wonder if the labrum issues are related of the odd way he throws? could his "gift" of throwing odd actually increase the risk of injuring himself in the future? 

 

 

No when you throw with you feet off the ground you get velocity by torquing your upper body.  Something Wilson is great at.

 

[msena88]

15 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Have to show the criticism, not just the hype:

 

This is a great breakdown of some of the stuff some of us have seen on the every throw clips and not just the highlights. And being done by a guy who played the position in the NFL. Love JT’s channel, great stuff.

There is a lot of risk with this dude, plain and simple. I get you can say that with every QB prospect, but to me at 2 there are guys who maybe have similar risk but a much bigger toolbox to work with too in terms of a skill set.

[Jetsbb]

 

[kdels62]

He does not want to be a Jet.

[sec101row23]

Just now, kdels62 said:

He does not want to be a Jet.

Does anyone really? 

[kdels62]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

Does anyone really? 

He does seem aware that Jets fans are loons.

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He does seem aware that Jets fans are loons.

He’s not wrong. 

[Jetsbb]

6 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He does not want to be a Jet.

How do you get that from this?

[The Crusher]

Pass. Let him go to San Francisco. He seems soft to me. Draft Fields, big strong talented kid, like the damn terminator in that Clemson game. I’m hoping that’s the reason why San Fran came  up, Saleh tipped them he’s taking Fields. Just say no to Zach, Zach is whack !

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Pass. Let him go to San Francisco. He seems soft to me.  

the Wilson fans have no numbers to back it up but they assure us, he's not soft 

just easy on the eyes 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

 

17 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He does not want to be a Jet.

Some Jets fans are just ridiculous.  Is that you Greenie?  Absurd

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the Wilson fans have no numbers to back it up but they assure us, he's not soft 

just easy on the eyes 

I have 5 children, changed diapers for almost a decade! I know baby shit soft when I see it. Draft Fields, kids a linebacker bruiser playing QB. Maybe not quite as accurate, but I remember when that was the knock on Josh Allen, just surround the kid with talent like the Bills did.  We should have a coaching staff that can develop rather that destroy a young QB now, Fields is the pick or trade down a bit to get some picks to get a QB next year and possibly draft your boy, I think he will be available between 5-7, maybe 8,9. Wilson is a NY disaster waiting to happen. 

[JetPotato]

[C Mart]

22 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He does seem aware that Jets fans are loons.

Any new members join here from Provo the past month?  Might explain it