All Page 1 Zach Wilson Threads: MERGED

[JohnnyLV]

32 minutes ago, derp said:

Could you expand upon the bold? Recent track record of QB’s drafted 1-3 is pretty gross - and whether that’s because the NFL is taking the wrong guys at the top of the draft or guys are failing without a quality supporting cast I think it’s a concern at #2 for the Jets this year since I don’t think the criteria has changed much and the supporting cast on offense is still aggressively mediocre.

Sure. There are a lot of reasons for the Jets to draft  QB at #2 in general not tied to a specific QB:

1. A QB at #2 is on a rookie contact, which pays around $20 million per year less than a Top QB which provides a lot more cap room to build a team

2, Drafting a QB allows that QB to be developed and groomed exactly the way you want without needing him to unlearn the coaching he received in other systems

3. We have a new HC and coaching staff and they get "their guy"

4. We do not need to spend additional draft capital to get an elite QB prospect. So the opportunity cost of selecting him is minimized. Even if he completely busts it is not a franchise killer. Yes the Jets could trade down and get more picks but the decision needs to be made if those picks are worth the loss of potentially getting a franchise guy.  The Darnold situation was different. It cost us 3 2s to get him. We do not lose draft capital this time.

5. It is a very strong QB class and we can get the #2 or #1 prospect in some opinions.

 

[slats]

52 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

There is literally nothing that points to that at all. Everything points to the Jets taking Wilson. Steve Young even confirmed it, and if you think the Jets did not share with SF what they are doing, Young is almost certainly in the inner circle with the Wilsons. And football guy seems to close 100% sure the Jets are taking Wilson as well. It seems like the internal staff watched Wilson's pro day and were cheering. I don't think the Jets like Wilson I think the Jets especially after his pro day love him. You really think the trades happening shortly after Wilson's measurables was coincidence?

Joe Douglas hasn't told people within the organization what he's doing. He absolutely did not share what he's planning with the 49ers. That's where your projection breaks down. 

I've also said I expect Wilson to be the pick, and that I'll be okay with that if/when it happens. But I also definitely believe that it's not written in stone, and that there's an offer to be made that Joe Douglas will be happy to accept. 

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Bosa would be incredible, but I feel like, if the Wilsons play hardball, the Jets don’t ultimately have a ton of leverage with the 49ers. 

The Jets have all the leverage with the Wilson’s. If they want little Zachy on the 49ers that’s the team they need to talk to. Jets just have to hold firm on what they want. 

[Tranquilo]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Young’s comments were being presented as “The Jets are locked in on Zach Wilson and the Wilsons are cool with it,” when what he said sounds more like “the Niners want Wilson, the Wilsons want the Niners, but they’re going to have to move Joe Douglas to get it done.” Douglas could find himself in some sh*t if Wilson’s people just outright say he doesn’t want to be a Jet, which might be the case considering how much the Niners paid to move up to 3. What is Douglas’ recourse if they pull an Eli? Draft Zach and watch the Jets get destroyed by every segment of the NFL information sphere until they’re forced to trade him to the Niners?

Lol that’s not going to happen. 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, QB1 said:

He said the Jets are committed to Wilson and have “recruited” the family, and that is not something you really undo. Everything else is obviously wishful thinking by Young because he loves the player. You sound really really desperate here lol 

 By “recruit the family,” I’d assume Young is implying that Douglas is aware they want to go to San Fran and Douglas has to convince them not to, all the while covered in the miasma of Sam Darnold’s fermenting body off-loaded into a shallow grave in the Pine Barrens. I hope Mike Wilson makes Douglas explain Greg Van Roten and Breshad Perriman 

[QB1]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

 By “recruit the family,” I’d assume Young is implying that Douglas is aware they want to go to San Fran and Douglas has to convince them not to, all the while covered in the miasma of Sam Darnold’s fermenting body off-loaded into a shallow grave in the Pine Barrens. I hope Mike Wilson makes Douglas explain Greg Van Roten and Breshad Perriman 

Or maybe its the decent thing to do when you are drafting a 22 year old to be the face of your franchise after you're ruined another 20 year old quaterback. 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

The Jets have all the leverage with the Wilson’s. If they want little Zachy on the 49ers that’s the team they need to talk to. Jets just have to hold firm on what they want. 

Eh. The Chargers got a one, a three, and a five to drop from 1 to 4 for Eli. The Niners would want the Jets to drop one spot, for a player who would be outright refusing to play for them. If Wilson will only play for the Niners, no one else is coming up to 2 to get burned, so it becomes a staring contest between Lynch and Douglas, and what can Douglas do other than find a deal?

[derp]

10 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Sure. There are a lot of reasons for the Jets to draft  QB at #2 in general not tied to a specific QB:

1. A QB at #2 is on a rookie contact, which pays around $20 million per year less than a Top QB which provides a lot more cap room to build a team

2, Drafting a QB allows that QB to be developed and groomed exactly the way you want without needing him to unlearn the coaching he received in other systems

3. We have a new HC and coaching staff and they get "their guy"

4. We do not need to spend additional draft capital to get an elite QB prospect. So the opportunity cost of selecting him is minimized. Even if he completely busts it is not a franchise killer. Yes the Jets could trade down and get more picks but the decision needs to be made if those picks are worth the loss of potentially getting a franchise guy.  The Darnold situation was different. It cost us 3 2s to get him. We do not lose draft capital this time.

5. It is a very strong QB class and we can get the #2 or #1 prospect in some opinions.

 

Thought it was clear when I brought up the concerns about the track record of guys at the top of the draft recently that I was asking specifically at why it should be at #2 - they obviously need to address the position with a rookie sometime soon. Everything but the last applies to a guy they draft almost anywhere, and the last one still doesn't address the poor track record of guys drafted at the top of the draft. Tons of teams lately have thought they can get a strong QB at the top of the draft...very little to show for it.

[FTL Jet Fan]

3 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

Who will it be then? Are you saying all the reports of the Jets being in love with Wilson, of being locked onto him and "recruiting his family," from multiple reporters and insiders with multiple sources, are all some kind of ruse? 

So you are guaranteed our selection will be Wilson? Look I always take the I will believe it when I see it with the Jets. I don’t care what anybody says just what name is on the card, then I go from there. 

[mfmartin]

Most normally I'd say you're correct. However these are unusual circumstances so you're WRONG. Sammy was given sh*t to work with. Until you give him a chance on a level playing field. You'll never know what he can become. So once what I presented is the most logical solution here....

No one with as poor of a start to his career has ever turned it around except Alex Smith. So you are banking on a historical outlier.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Eh. The Chargers got a one, a three, and a five to drop from 1 to 4 for Eli. The Niners would want the Jets to drop one spot, for a player who would be outright refusing to play for them. If Wilson will only play for the Niners, no one else is coming up to 2 to get burned, so it becomes a staring contest between Lynch and Douglas, and what can Douglas do other than find a deal?

Why are you so doom and gloom.  This isn’t happening.

[The Crusher]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Eh. The Chargers got a one, a three, and a five to drop from 1 to 4 for Eli. The Niners would want the Jets to drop one spot, for a player who would be outright refusing to play for them. If Wilson will only play for the Niners, no one else is coming up to 2 to get burned, so it becomes a staring contest between Lynch and Douglas, and what can Douglas do other than find a deal?

I see this as a them problem but I do see your point.  Douglas should just draft be little bugger and let them figure out how to acquire him. Maybe Fields and  Bosa or solid offensive lineman? That or pound salt. They got plenty of it in the lake. 

[FTL Jet Fan]

1 hour ago, QB1 said:

So we are just going to give away Wilson without squeezing the value of the 2nd pick? Does that sound like what Douglas would do? 

You know there is just so much hype around Wilson compared to TL, Fields etc. It just seems odd to me I am just not convinced Wilson will be the pick until I see it.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, mfmartin said:

 

No one with as poor of a start to his career has ever turned it around except Alex Smith. So you are banking on a historical outlier.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

The biggest problem with darnold last year was when Flacco came in and looked considerably better with the same sack of s*** offense.  If you put bridgewater at qb last year the jets win 4-5 games.

[slimjasi]

33 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Young’s comments were being presented as “The Jets are locked in on Zach Wilson and the Wilsons are cool with it,” when what he said sounds more like “the Niners want Wilson, the Wilsons want the Niners, but they’re going to have to move Joe Douglas to get it done.” Douglas could find himself in some sh*t if Wilson’s people just outright say he doesn’t want to be a Jet, which might be the case considering how much the Niners paid to move up to 3. What is Douglas’ recourse if they pull an Eli? Draft Zach and watch the Jets get destroyed by every segment of the NFL information sphere until they’re forced to trade him to the Niners?

I get why people always imagine this stuff happening but the reality is that it almost never happens anymore. Eli was 17 years ago already. There's a reason for that - I think a move power move like that puts a ton of pressure on the player right away and just isn't the ideal way to enter the NFL in most cases. I also think it's harder to pull something like this when you aren't even the number 1 pick. 

As an aside, and maybe I'm just biased (I am), but I think if I were Wilson, the Jets would appeal to me in a weird way over SF. You can go to SF and you are constantly compared to Montana and Young and you basically have to be amazing to be truly appreciated/embraced by the fanbase. If you go to the Jets and are merely better than league average for a very long time and ever actually win anything here you are a GOD and possibly the best QB in franchise history. 

[QB1]

Just now, FTL Jet Fan said:

You know there is just so much hype around Wilson compared to TL, Field etc. It just seems odd to me I am just not convinced Wilson will be the pick until I see it.

Ok good for you?

[Mogglez]

Well the quote I posted was definitely out of context. Fine.

Zach’s dad seems like he’s okay with him going to the Jets:

[slats]

54 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Young’s comments were being presented as “The Jets are locked in on Zach Wilson and the Wilsons are cool with it,” when what he said sounds more like “the Niners want Wilson, the Wilsons want the Niners, but they’re going to have to move Joe Douglas to get it done.” Douglas could find himself in some sh*t if Wilson’s people just outright say he doesn’t want to be a Jet, which might be the case considering how much the Niners paid to move up to 3. What is Douglas’ recourse if they pull an Eli? Draft Zach and watch the Jets get destroyed by every segment of the NFL information sphere until they’re forced to trade him to the Niners?

I think if the 49ers wanted to trade with the Jets with Wilson as their object of desire, they would've made the move up to #6 with the Eagles and saved enough to make another deal to move up those four spots. That's a deal, I think, Joe Douglas would've considered. Trading back one spot will not provide the haul he needs to move out of that spot and pass on Wilson, who I certainly believe he likes. 

The 49ers didn't do that, though. I think they're happy with the QB they can expect to get there, and maybe not nearly as enamored with Zach as fanboys like Steve Young might be. 

Also just don't see the Wilson family making a public stink about a refusal to play for the Jets - however justified they might be in that stance. 

If the Jets trade down, that trade will include a minimum of one future first round pick (Falcons) but probably two (Panthers). Those teams being in the same division probably doesn't hurt JD's negotiating position, either. 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

I think if the 49ers wanted to trade with the Jets with Wilson as their object of desire, they would've made the move up to #6 with the Eagles and saved enough to make another deal to move up those four spots. That's a deal, I think, Joe Douglas would've considered. Trading back one spot will not provide the haul he needs to move out of that spot and pass on Wilson, who I certainly believe he likes. 

The 49ers didn't do that, though. I think they're happy with the QB they can expect to get there, and maybe not nearly as enamored with Zach as fanboys like Steve Young might be. 

Also just don't see the Wilson family making a public stink about a refusal to play for the Jets - however justified they might be in that stance. 

If the Jets trade down, that trade will include a minimum of one future first round pick (Falcons) but probably two (Panthers). Those teams being in the same division probably doesn't hurt JD's negotiating position, either. 

SF knew teams wanted to trade up to 2 and 3 and did so to prevent Carolina and denver from getting lance.  Just because it wasn’t officially reported it’s not hard to connect the dots to figure out that douglas has been contacted about dealing out of 2 b/c he has said multiple times when someone calls i listen. Darnold will be gone by next weekend assuming Wilson’s medicals are good and then we’ll all be able to move on to the next impending disaster draft pick.

[Bruce Harper]

35 minutes ago, slats said:

Joe Douglas hasn't told people within the organization what he's doing. He absolutely did not share what he's planning with the 49ers. That's where your projection breaks down. 

I've also said I expect Wilson to be the pick, and that I'll be okay with that if/when it happens. But I also definitely believe that it's not written in stone, and that there's an offer to be made that Joe Douglas will be happy to accept. 

IMHO, the only thing that could cause Douglas to trade down is draft picks, and plenty of them.  And the Niners already have traded away all of their firsts.  So how would a trade with the Niners work?

[Bruce Harper]

16 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Well the quote I posted was definitely out of context. Fine.

Zach’s dad seems like he’s okay with him going to the Jets:

Zach's Dad is a big guy.  Zach seems to have missed out on those genes.

[slats]

5 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

IMHO, the only thing that could cause Douglas to trade down is draft picks, and plenty of them.  And the Niners already have traded away all of their firsts.  So how would a trade with the Niners work?

See my post above, I don't think such a trade works. 

[BroadwayRay]

43 minutes ago, slats said:

Joe Douglas hasn't told people within the organization what he's doing. He absolutely did not share what he's planning with the 49ers. That's where your projection breaks down. 

I've also said I expect Wilson to be the pick, and that I'll be okay with that if/when it happens. But I also definitely believe that it's not written in stone, and that there's an offer to be made that Joe Douglas will be happy to accept. 

Everything points to JD viewing Wilson as a future franchise QB for the Jets. From the coaching staff's appearance at Provo, to the multiple insider reports, from Steve Young actually saying Jets coaches told him the team is "committed" to him, to him obviously speaking to Wilson's family and hearing the team "recruited" them, etc. JD is not going to pass on drafting him for a few extra draft picks. That is not going to happen. It never happens when teams are this locked into a prospect.

[Savage69]

31 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Why are you so doom and gloom.  This isn’t happening.

I can't wait for the silly season to be over so many fans talking out of their butts with crazy theories that make no sense..

[Bruce Harper]

4 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

Everything points to JD viewing Wilson as a future franchise QB for the Jets. From the coaching staff's appearance at Provo, to the multiple insider reports, from Steve Young actually saying Jets coaches told him the team is "committed" to him, to him obviously speaking to Wilson's family and hearing the team "recruited" them, etc. JD is not going to pass on drafting him for a few extra draft picks. That is not going to happen. It never happens when teams are this locked into a prospect.

I'm all in on Wilson but I just keep thinking of poor Mrs. Darnold and the promises made.

 

[slats]

3 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

Everything points to JD viewing Wilson as a future franchise QB for the Jets. From the coaching staff's appearance at Provo, to the multiple insider reports, from Steve Young actually saying Jets coaches told him the team is "committed" to him, to him obviously speaking to Wilson's family and hearing the team "recruited" them, etc. JD is not going to pass on drafting him for a few extra draft picks. That is not going to happen. It never happens when teams are this locked into a prospect.

How many times a day do I have to post that I expect Wilson to be the pick? 

With the draft four weeks away, though, there's plenty of time for other teams to try to convince JD to move off the pick. And what better way for JD to maintain the value than to say he's committed to this particular hot & shiny object? How desperate is Carolina's owner to land a FQB now? Do they still see Watson as potentially viable? 

[T0mShane]

32 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I get why people always imagine this stuff happening but the reality is that it almost never happens anymore. Eli was 17 years ago already. There's a reason for that - I think a move power move like that puts a ton of pressure on the player right away and just isn't the ideal way to enter the NFL in most cases. I also think it's harder to pull something like this when you aren't even the number 1 pick. 

As an aside, and maybe I'm just biased (I am), but I think if I were Wilson, the Jets would appeal to me in a weird way over SF. You can go to SF and you are constantly compared to Montana and Young and you basically have to be amazing to be truly appreciated/embraced by the fanbase. If you go to the Jets and are merely better than league average for a very long time and ever actually win anything here you are a GOD and possibly the best QB in franchise history. 

I feel like QBs are starting to pick where they want to play and it’s going to be more prevalent given how much it costs to keep a QB and how much of a career-killer it is for these guys to end up in bad situations. Wilson’s people wouldn’t be demanding a trade to a team with the 20th pick, they’d be nudging themselves down one spot. Not unreasonable at all. As for the second part, I can’t imagine that appealing to anyone. You’d rather go to a stacked team, appear in the playoffs consistently, and then lavish in your endorsement deals. There’s a dumpster in Florham Park filled with the corpses of young QBs who were going to become NY legends by turning the Jets around, including the QB they currently have on the roster

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I feel like QBs are starting to pick where they want to play and it’s going to be more prevalent given how much it costs to keep a QB and how much of a career-killer it is for these guys to end up in bad situations. Wilson’s people wouldn’t be demanding a trade to a team with the 20th pick, they’d be nudging themselves down one spot. Not unreasonable at all. As for the second part, I can’t imagine that appealing to anyone. You’d rather go to a stacked team, appear in the playoffs consistently, and then lavish in your endorsement deals. There’s a dumpster in Florham Park filled with the corpses of young QBs who were going to become NY legends by turning the Jets around, including the QB they currently have on the roster

Realistically, I agree with you about the second part. That's just the Jets fanboy in me. 

But, I haven't seem many QBs forcing their way to certain teams in the draft in recent years, unless I am missing something? Again - how many times has it happened since Eli - which was 17 years ago? 

[BroadwayRay]

9 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

I'm all in on Wilson but I just keep thinking of poor Mrs. Darnold and the promises made.

 

Promises, shromises. On the night he was drafted, Darnold promised Jets fans “a lot of wins.” All promises in sports are worthless. 

[T0mShane]

38 minutes ago, slats said:

I think if the 49ers wanted to trade with the Jets with Wilson as their object of desire, they would've made the move up to #6 with the Eagles and saved enough to make another deal to move up those four spots. That's a deal, I think, Joe Douglas would've considered. Trading back one spot will not provide the haul he needs to move out of that spot and pass on Wilson, who I certainly believe he likes. 

The 49ers didn't do that, though. I think they're happy with the QB they can expect to get there, and maybe not nearly as enamored with Zach as fanboys like Steve Young might be. 

Also just don't see the Wilson family making a public stink about a refusal to play for the Jets - however justified they might be in that stance. 

If the Jets trade down, that trade will include a minimum of one future first round pick (Falcons) but probably two (Panthers). Those teams being in the same division probably doesn't hurt JD's negotiating position, either. 

I’d imagine Douglas didn’t want to move off of 2 because, theoretically, it was a goldmine, so the Niners jumped up to three and are going to let Steve Young tell Mike Wilson all about how great the Niners situation is (they got to a Super Bowl 21 months ago with Jimmy Garropollo!) and how the dysfunctional Jets took a sweet, young Cali-bro like Sam Darnold and incinerated his life to the point that he’s currently a 24 year-old kid already on the scrap-heap and wow where would you rather have your golden-child son play football? So, instead of the Niners buying the house they wanted, they bought the house next door to it and are going to play death metal tracks on 11 for 36 days until the Jets have to move out

[bitonti]

I just saw a ranking from a colleague (paid site) that had Wilson as QB6

legit wonder what everyone else is looking at

zach wilson has like a half dozen obvious fatal flaws and everyone says he's amazing 

 

 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I’d imagine Douglas didn’t want to move off of 2 because, theoretically, it was a goldmine, so the Niners jumped up to three and are going to let Steve Young tell Mike Wilson all about how great the Niners situation is (they got to a Super Bowl 21 months ago with Jimmy Garropollo!) and how the dysfunctional Jets took a sweet, young Cali-bro like Sam Darnold and incinerated his life to the point that he’s currently a 24 year-old kid already on the scrap-heap and wow where would you rather have your golden-child son play football? So, instead of the Niners buying the house they wanted, they bought the house next door to them and are going to play death metal tracks on 11 for 36 days until the Jets have to move out

nope.  2 key members of the 49ers coaching staff is now running the jets and young is probably telling the wilsons that zach will be in good hands there despite how darnold turned out.  

[BroadwayRay]

11 minutes ago, slats said:

How many times a day do I have to post that I expect Wilson to be the pick? 

With the draft four weeks away, though, there's plenty of time for other teams to try to convince JD to move off the pick. And what better way for JD to maintain the value than to say he's committed to this particular hot & shiny object? How desperate is Carolina's owner to land a FQB now? Do they still see Watson as potentially viable? 

Let me put it more simply: You’re saying JD‘a professed love for Wilson is a calculated way to yield trade offers. I say you’re wrong:  He genuinely views Wilson as a franchise QB. 

[Bruce Harper]

2 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

Promises, shromises. On the night he was drafted, Darnold promised Jets fans “a lot of wins.” All promises in sports are worthless. 

You are correct, of course.  Can I help it if I like his Mom?

[Bruce Harper]

Just now, bitonti said:

I just saw a ranking from a colleague (paid site) that had Wilson as QB6

 

 

Keep trying.