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12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Loves Zach Wilson, but couches it by saying that Wilson didn’t face much pressure all year and it remains to be seen how he responds when he has to face a pass rush. Which seems like a thing you’d want to know.

This is my concern too, especially walking into the Jets. Also why I’m more annoyed than anyone with the lack of investment on the line.

The BYU line was ridiculous, even by the standards of these top college teams. I think Wilson did well when the pressure did come but I think he’s gotten accustomed to holding onto the ball for a while. He never gives up on making a play either, which can be a good or bad thing.

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Instead of explaining why we shouldn’t trade down ... I’ll just leave this here . U guys will like this @Mogglez @football guy 

Because this thread isn’t the only place where it happens. Post a film review?  It’s a race to see how quickly it can be derailed by children who are upset that the Jets might not get them their

Just say you paid for Matt Waldman’s RSP and be done with it.

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Via The Athletic - pieces from their film review:


Zach Wilson film analysis: The BYU QB has plenty of strengths, but is he a Day 1 starter in the NFL? 

Wilson’s ability to play off-script and make difficult throws look effortless is highly sought after in today’s NFL, but legitimate concerns come with drafting him. Josh Allen and Justin Herbert are recent examples of quarterbacks who were drafted for their traits despite needing development in several critical areas. Teams will surely be looking at Wilson through the same lens, but how much development will he need as he transitions to the NFL game?

Accuracy and ball placement

Though Wilson’s highlights are fun to watch, legitimate concerns show up on film. For example, his accuracy and ball placement can be erratic.

This was especially apparent when the pocket was compressed. The BYU offensive line performed at a very high level last season and gave Wilson some unreal pockets — there were times when there was no one within 7 yards of Wilson when he got to the top of his drop. However, when the pocket was pushed in on him, his accuracy took a dip, which is concerning. He doesn’t use much vertical space when throwing and has no problem making off-platform throws, but perhaps he’s bothered when he feels the pocket collapsing directly in front of him.

When he does have a clean pocket, he has shown that he’s capable of good ball placement.

Wilson also has trouble going through multiple progressions and has a tendency to stare down his receivers.

Part of Wilson’s problem is he doesn’t move his feet well when going from read to read, which can cause inaccuracy.

Wilson benefited greatly from having one of the best offensive lines in the country and not facing top competition. The best team he faced this season was Coastal Carolina, which is an offensive team. He didn’t play well in the game — the offense scored only 17 points in the Cougars’ only loss of the season. In 2019, when BYU had a much tougher schedule, Wilson had an 11-9 touchdown-to-interception ratio.

So while Wilson’s talent will likely get him picked in the top 10, he is a project. The team that drafts him will have to be patient and comfortable in its ability to develop him. He can benefit from sitting his rookie year while sharpening up his technique and learning how to improve his mental processes. There’s more of a boom-or-bust factor with Wilson than I expected before breaking down his film.

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1 hour ago, C Mart said:

Wilson benefited greatly from having one of the best offensive lines in the country and not facing top competition. The best team he faced this season was Coastal Carolina, which is an offensive team. He didn’t play well in the game — the offense scored only 17 points in the Cougars’ only loss of the season. In 2019, when BYU had a much tougher schedule, Wilson had an 11-9 touchdown-to-interception ratio.

¿QUE QUE????

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Here is a great video from 2019 showing how he does under pressure. Now he was coming off shoulder surgery and clearly wasn’t as sharp throwing the football as he is now... but look at how he handles himself in a collapsed pocket as BYU is totally overmatched by Washington. I think this kid will be just fine...

 

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5 minutes ago, Jet2020 said:

Wait, so his worst game was his best? 

In other words, his best game was his worse?

Did you watch? What I mean is that CC was in his face all game and he played very well. 

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5 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

Wait, so his worst game was his best? 

In other words, his best game was his worse?

Sometimes looking at what are considered the players worst games can give you more insights to them as players.  I came away liking ZW more after watching this game. Not sure if you watched the game or not, but if you haven't you should. You can't look at the box score and stat line for this one. Were mistakes made, yes, but there was a lot of good too. 

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I , admittedly, am not a big college FB guy so the majority of my limited knowledge of prospects comes from analyst articles and this board leading up to the draft. 

Everyone seems to be confident JD is taking Wilson (although I really don't think its set in stone). I have some concerns about him and I'd really like to get some feedback from you guys that actually know college FB. 

- It sounds like he struggled with injuries prior to this last season. I watched his pro days video and I felt like he just seemed small. Not height wise, more like he doesn't come across like he will take NFL hits well. And on top of it he reportedly puts on some weight and hurts his hammy before his proday? Not worried about him being injury prone?

- Jets don't exactly have a good track record with one year wonder QB's. Sam was at least on peoples radar prior to his last season at USC. It seems like Wilson didn't exist prior to this season. Pretty big projections for this kid being made off just 1 college season, no? 

- Finally, level of competition is a big concern for me. QB's probably more than any other position already face a HUGE adjustment in the pros because of how much more complex NFL defenses are AND just how much faster/stronger/better NFL defensive players are compared to anything they faced in college. So much of a young QBs success in the NFL is dependent on how well and how fast they respond to the adjustments and growth needed to perform against NFL level defenses. Zach looked great this year... Against mostly (or entirely?) scrub teams. We take this into account every preseason when a player looks good but it happened to be in the 4th quarter against players that won't make an NFL roster. So we take that performance with a grain of salt. Dont we need to do the same with Wilson? I could argue that he would already face a big adjustment in terms of defensive talent if you gave him Clemson or Ohio State's schedule. So, to me, it feels like he is already facing a much bigger challenge transitioning to the NFL than other prospects. He hasn't been in a situation to show he can perform against top competition in college FB. I would think that makes it even more difficult to project a player to the NFL. 

Possible injury issues and just one season of production against markedly sub-par competition. Are these not significant concerns/red flags? 

**I'm not arguing against drafting Zach Wilson at all. I'm just hoping hear some thoughts on these questions from the Zach Wilson fans that (unlike me) actually know college FB. So, PLEASE, help me be excited about drafting this kid 🙏🙏

(Thanks in advance to anyone that can give me some feedback on this!)

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On 4/3/2021 at 9:36 AM, NYJ1 said:

So I guess if there's any truth to the article saying that the CS prefers to work with Sammy, you're telling the CS they don't know what they're doing? Quite frankly, I think it's all nonsense. I stated my opinion on this matter. Take it however you choose.....

So you cherry pick the rumors you want to believe ignoring the statements by Allbright that they are not hiding the fact that they are taking Zach. that Steve Young said the Jets have already committed to Zach and he is all upset because he wants him to be a Jet, the fact that Douglas and Saleh had ear to ear grins at his pro day, the fact that the trades happened about an hour after Wilson was measured, that Philadelphia only wanted to trade up for Wilson and then traded down, that there were multiple reports that GMs and scouts said Wilson to Jets are done deal, that the Jets could traded down already and reported by many of the top insiders that JD refuses to trade the pick and on and on, but the one you cling to is

A single report that Saleh "prefers" Darnold. I mean come on. At this point the Jets not taking Wilson are as likely as JAX not taking Lawrence.

I get it. I have desperately wanted the Jets to not take some players and clung to anything I could find to have a glimmer of hope it didn't happen. 

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16 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

Wait, so his worst game was his best? 

In other words, his best game was his worse?

People who say Coastal Carolina game is his worst game it is a tell that they don’t know what they’re talking about or didn’t bother to watch the tape.

 

for the record I’d say Houston game is his worst. 

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6 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

I , admittedly, am not a big college FB guy so the majority of my limited knowledge of prospects comes from analyst articles and this board leading up to the draft. 

Everyone seems to be confident JD is taking Wilson (although I really don't think its set in stone). I have some concerns about him and I'd really like to get some feedback from you guys that actually know college FB. 

- It sounds like he struggled with injuries prior to this last season. I watched his pro days video and I felt like he just seemed small. Not height wise, more like he doesn't come across like he will take NFL hits well. And on top of it he reportedly puts on some weight and hurts his hammy before his proday? Not worried about him being injury prone?

- Jets don't exactly have a good track record with one year wonder QB's. Sam was at least on peoples radar prior to his last season at USC. It seems like Wilson didn't exist prior to this season. Pretty big projections for this kid being made off just 1 college season, no? 

- Finally, level of competition is a big concern for me. QB's probably more than any other position already face a HUGE adjustment in the pros because of how much more complex NFL defenses are AND just how much faster/stronger/better NFL defensive players are compared to anything they faced in college. So much of a young QBs success in the NFL is dependent on how well and how fast they respond to the adjustments and growth needed to perform against NFL level defenses. Zach looked great this year... Against mostly (or entirely?) scrub teams. We take this into account every preseason when a player looks good but it happened to be in the 4th quarter against players that won't make an NFL roster. So we take that performance with a grain of salt. Dont we need to do the same with Wilson? I could argue that he would already face a big adjustment in terms of defensive talent if you gave him Clemson or Ohio State's schedule. So, to me, it feels like he is already facing a much bigger challenge transitioning to the NFL than other prospects. He hasn't been in a situation to show he can perform against top competition in college FB. I would think that makes it even more difficult to project a player to the NFL. 

Possible injury issues and just one season of production against markedly sub-par competition. Are these not significant concerns/red flags? 

**I'm not arguing against drafting Zach Wilson at all. I'm just hoping hear some thoughts on these questions from the Zach Wilson fans that (unlike me) actually know college FB. So, PLEASE, help me be excited about drafting this kid 🙏🙏

(Thanks in advance to anyone that can give me some feedback on this!)

Anyone? 

I genuinely would like to know what the Zach Wilson fans / people that know college fb think about these issues. 

Why are the bolded points not cause to hesitate on using a 2nd overall pick in a player? Whats so special about Zach Wilson? 

I'm not asking these question to start a debate. I genuinely really want to know lol

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Anyone? 
I genuinely would like to know what the Zach Wilson fans / people that know college fb think about these issues. 
Why are the bolded points not cause to hesitate on using a 2nd overall pick in a player? Whats so special about Zach Wilson? 
I'm not asking these question to start a debate. I genuinely really want to know lol


The hamstring thing is not a problem either. You are at your pro day and are gonna put yourself in the best light. He also said he’d be willing to do the drills and send the tapes to the teams that were interested.

Level of competition thing is overblown IMO. How many hard games do top schools face? 2 maybe 3.. most of the time Trevor Lawrence took the field, his team was vastly superior to his opponent. Justin Fields carving up a garbage Penn State defense doesn’t show me more than Wilson carving up Boise State.


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2 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

Anyone? 

I genuinely would like to know what the Zach Wilson fans / people that know college fb think about these issues. 

Why are the bolded points not cause to hesitate on using a 2nd overall pick in a player? Whats so special about Zach Wilson? 

I'm not asking these question to start a debate. I genuinely really want to know lol

1. He's not really a one year wonder. Mostly he improved. If you look at the USC game (pre hand) you see pretty much the same guy you see in 2020. He does a couple Manziel type plays (one which he converts) but you still see the release, arm strength and ridiculous accuracy. It is funny that people actually criticize Wilson because he worked his butt off and got better.

2. He is not injury prone. He had non-contact injuries to his labrums which were a result of throwing too hard at too young an age. If you saw his pro day you know his arm is live, and there is no reason to think it will reoccur. Brees had a dramatically worse one and played with it for 15 additional years with no issue. He broke a thumb tackling someone who intercepted him. He does not have a history of ankles soft tissue issues or missing games. If you look at his highlights he seems really durable as well

3. As Simms says the small school thing is overblown. First "a throw is a throw" and unlike what some say threw a ton of tight window throws, many amazing throws. Also you could argue that being on the best teams in the nation and throwing to future NFL receivers is a bigger advantage than having lower talent WRs going against small school QBs.  There is also no data to suggest big school QBs project better into the NFL. In fact there are many small school guys that were clearly better than their competition that transitioned well to the NFL

Also light schedule or not Wilson didn't just play well he essentially had one of Top 2 seasons by a QB according to PFF, who does not grade by snaps but by the timing, placement and accuracy of a throw and whether it was interceptable. 

But people seem to hate him. Some of it I think is a reaction to Wilson passing Fields as a prospect that they won't even look at him impartially.

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On 4/3/2021 at 4:38 PM, Cbucco19 said:

Instead of explaining why we shouldn’t trade down ... I’ll just leave this here . U guys will like this @Mogglez @football guy 

DFDF5235-A4D4-4E99-833A-EE1575D126AF.png

The problem with this graphic is that it assumes Zach wilson won't throw ints. 

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2 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

4DE5C66A-8DA7-4B2B-BEBF-B4C13012764C.thumb.jpeg.858bda04d6c7304c8ba772e8196adfc2.jpeg

Proving Sam Darnold sucks has literally nothing to do with the Zach wilson evaluation 

Yes darnold sucks. this offense can't support him or wilson or anyone else 

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21 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Proving Sam Darnold sucks has literally nothing to do with the Zach wilson evaluation 

Yes darnold sucks. this offense can't support him or wilson or anyone else 

Not true:

"This is the situation you want to come into, what they set up now," McCown said. "You have a head coach and a GM that are aligned. You have picks, you have cap space and you've put yourself in a position to make a run at genuine, long-term success. Unfortunately, that's not the situation that Sam came into."
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/86303/jets-qb-drama-sam-darnold-would-embrace-competition-from-rookie%3fplatform=amp

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9 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

Anyone? 

I genuinely would like to know what the Zach Wilson fans / people that know college fb think about these issues. 

Why are the bolded points not cause to hesitate on using a 2nd overall pick in a player? Whats so special about Zach Wilson? 

I'm not asking these question to start a debate. I genuinely really want to know lol

Regarding his injury history - his specific injuries shouldn't necessarily be causes for concerns moving forward. I heard somewhere that post surgery for a torn labrum your shoulder should theoretically hold up better than it would have pre-injury. So just because he's already had this injury it doesn't necessarily mean he's more likely to have another one than any other QB prospect. That being said, he does seem to seek out contact as a runner and does have a smaller frame - so I believe he is more injury prone due to his stature/playing style than other QBs. Its definitely a risk IMO. 

 

Regarding one year wonders - he was a pretty good player/prospect coming off his freshman year. He had a worse season as a sophomore but wasn't awful. We've seen other players seemingly come out of no where (Burrow, Murray, Baker, etc.) and have success i the NFL - so I don't think this should be a major red flag. 

 

Level of competition is fair - particularly because his best season (by far) was against inferior competition. One thing that makes me feel slightly better is that even against weaker competition in 2019 he posted more modest stats than he did in 2020. Maybe the team was better - but in 2019 he didn't have any games with more than 315 passing yards - whereas in 2020 he did that in 5 of the 12 games he played. He also only threw 3 picks in 2020 (1 in 3 games) whereas in 2019 he threw 9 including 2 against SD state and Hawaii. 

Your concerns are all of the right concerns for what its worth. If Wilson had three years of 2020 performance against SEC competition and no injury history he'd be heading to Jax at the end of the month. The believers will say 2019 was an anomaly due to injury, and the lack of competition is less of a concern b/c his teammates were of equal talent level and thus he wasn't just throwing to guys with 10 yards of separation. The naysayers will say he is a one year wonder who won't be able to hold up physically or in-game to the talent of the NFL. The only thing I am sure of is that if either party says they are 100% confident the arguments of the other aren't relevant I'm dismissing their opinion. 

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16 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Not true:

"This is the situation you want to come into, what they set up now," McCown said. "You have a head coach and a GM that are aligned. You have picks, you have cap space and you've put yourself in a position to make a run at genuine, long-term success. Unfortunately, that's not the situation that Sam came into."
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/86303/jets-qb-drama-sam-darnold-would-embrace-competition-from-rookie%3fplatform=amp

I'm not seeing how this is a better roster than it was 3 years ago 

In many ways its just as bad /worse

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

I'm not seeing how this is a better roster than it was 3 years ago 

In many ways its just as bad /worse

We're definitely banking a lot on a coaching staff upgrade. Can't argue with that.

  • I do like our defensive line a lot more than at anytime in the past three years.
  • I also think the Corey Davis/Denzel Mims duo has some potential. 
  • And we all love Big Ticket. 

If we do draft a quarterback, we should sign Mullens or some vet just to start the season. If we're really as talent-poor as we think, and the scheme can't mask our deficiencies well enough, then do not throw the rookie quarterback out there. 

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13 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I'm not seeing how this is a better roster than it was 3 years ago 

In many ways its just as bad /worse


^^^A ex player who has watched the tape on Sam. A lot of missed and open WR and while our current WR core isn’t world breaking, it is improved. 
 

You have to assume with a QB who can process better we will have a more explosive offense next season, rookie starting or not 

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5 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

We're definitely banking a lot on a coaching staff upgrade. Can't argue with that.

  • I do like our defensive line a lot more than at anytime in the past three years.
  • I also think the Corey Davis/Denzel Mims duo has some potential. 
  • And we all love Big Ticket. 

If we do draft a quarterback, we should sign Mullens or some vet just to start the season. If we're really as talent-poor as we think, and the scheme can't mask our deficiencies well enough, then do not throw the rookie quarterback out there. 

The coaching staff upgrade includes installation of a new offensive and defensive system. Currently the team is meeting over zoom without offseason workouts in person 

Yes I also like the coach Saleh hire, yes Quinnen and Becton are good.

You know as well as I do the Jets are not going to cut a 20 million dollar check to the 2 pick and let him sit 

Whoever the qb is in 2021 is going to be a crash test dummy 

 

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4 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

 

You have to assume with a QB who can process better we will have a more explosive offense next season, rookie starting or not 

It's a huge assumption that any rookie qb can show up week 1 and be an expert at processing. That's aside from the cupcake schedule. Most teams don't take a rookie and start him week 1 and let him learn the hard way. the Jets did it with Sanchez, darnold and are about to do it again 

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