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9 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I disagree.  I think Wilson is an easy evaluation as is Mac Jones then Trevor Lawrence to a lesser degree.  Hence why their pre-draft mock slots are less volatile.  Fields and Lance for more valid reasons (i.e., 1 game last season, 1 full season, level of competition...etc.) some projecting.  NFL evaluators are scared to death of projecting which is weird as I always thought that was part of the evaluation process.  They couldn’t see beyond Mahomes air raid system, Allen’s CMP%, Herbert’s lack of refinement.  

Can you elaborate on why Wilson’s easy? And Jones too?

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Instead of explaining why we shouldn’t trade down ... I’ll just leave this here . U guys will like this @Mogglez @football guy 

Because this thread isn’t the only place where it happens. Post a film review?  It’s a race to see how quickly it can be derailed by children who are upset that the Jets might not get them their

Just say you paid for Matt Waldman’s RSP and be done with it.

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17 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I disagree.  I think Wilson is an easy evaluation as is Mac Jones then Trevor Lawrence to a lesser degree.  Hence why their pre-draft mock slots are less volatile.  Fields and Lance for more valid reasons (i.e., 1 game last season, 1 full season, level of competition...etc.) some projecting.  NFL evaluators are scared to death of projecting which is weird as I always thought that was part of the evaluation process.  They couldn’t see beyond Mahomes air raid system, Allen’s CMP%, Herbert’s lack of refinement.  

Can someone interpret this to me in English. 

I think I want to subscribe to your podcast but I cannot understand it. 

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5 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

Odds Jets brass have been stalking this thread and so told Zach to follow some other teams?

Turns out this isn't far from the truth. A google search of Zach Wilson turns up an article about him following Stop Shop. Even copies the 30 minutes from Floram Park Comment I made in the thread. Someone close to him obviously saw the article after doing a google search, informed him and so he decided to follow the other teams. Damn didn't know I was breaking news deep into a thread on a Jets forum. https://thespun.com/independents/byu/look-zach-wilsons-latest-instagram-follow-is-telling

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2 hours ago, legler82 said:

Those of us that have been following the draft for a few years know of Waldman & Schofield.  They are mainstays of the draftnik community and podcast circuit.  There were folks doing this before JT O’Sullivan and Tim Jenkins 😅😂🤣😭

Curious why are we questioning popularity of the evaluators rather the evaluations?  Are they saying things that are wrong or ignorant?

Those of you.  Got it.  Fans on a board who follow the draft.  

I ask because their evaluations sounded on in a few places and the nitpicky nonsense made them sound like to complete idiots whining about complete passes.

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2 hours ago, derp said:

I am in the taking a QB at 2 is stupid camp.

Why do the Wilson fans take questions about him so personally?

Because most of the questions are idiotic?

Headbands, father who tweets, uncle who has money, morons claiming hes inaccurate, bigger morons actually claiming he only throws short, his arm is weak, heel clicks, how far he extends his front leg.  You know stupid shlt that makes you chuckle

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Because most of the questions are idiotic?

Headbands, father who tweets, uncle who has money, morons claiming hes inaccurate, bigger morons actually claiming he only throws short, his arm is weak, heel clicks, how far he extends his front leg.  You know stupid shlt that makes you chuckle

And yet I haven’t said...any of that or anything close and still get a lot of pushback any time I ask questions.

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1 hour ago, QB1 said:

I just started listening to his stuff and it’s good, I like him. My friend used to work at football guys and he tells me he’s by far the smartest guy they have. That doesn’t mean he’s always right, I believe he missed badly on Herbert last year.

Indeed, they all miss. Matt is real deal though, a true tradesman. No hot takes, not Twitter catch phrases "Chase is built different" type trash.... Xs and 0s with that guy

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43 minutes ago, derp said:

Can you elaborate on why Wilson’s easy? And Jones too?

It’s the offenses they ran.  Evaluators can see Wilson execute the wide zone, run bootlegs off play action, do short rolls from under center, RPOs...etc.  Then they peg him as the “per fit” for [insert offense here].  Same with Jones.  Bama runs a lot of pro stuff. No projection needed.  You can see them do things that certain NFL teams do.  Although there are some NFL concepts embedded, no one is running Ryan Day’s max protect multiple downfield option routes in the pros.  You have to project more with Fields.

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Just now, legler82 said:

It’s the offenses they ran.  Evaluators can see Wilson execute the wide zone, run bootlegs off play action, do short rolls from under center, RPOs...etc.  Then they peg him as the “per fit” for [insert offense here].  Same with Jones.  Bama runs a lot of pro stuff. No projection needed.  You can see them do things that certain NFL teams do.  Although there are some NFL concepts embedded, no one is running Ryan Day’s max protect multiple downfield option routes in the pros.  You have to project more with Fields.

System wise, kind of. I do know Wilson’s offense attacked defenses off play action differently than NFL teams do. 

Level of talent relative to competition is where I was getting at those guys being challenging evals. Jones isn’t going to be throwing to multiple first round receivers and Wilson isn’t going to have all day in the pocket to hunt kill shots downfield.

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17 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Indeed, they all miss. Matt is real deal though, a true tradesman. No hot takes, not Twitter catch phrases "Chase is built different" type trash.... Xs and 0s with that guy

I shared the Waldman video because I think he does a good job.  I like Rollins also

 

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15 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Indeed, they all miss. Matt is real deal though, a true tradesman. No hot takes, not Twitter catch phrases "Chase is built different" type trash.... Xs and 0s with that guy

I appreciate Waldman and Schofield and even JT O’Sullivan because they change with the times.  I’m sure 2-3 years ago they would be right there riding shotgun on Wilson hype train while over analyzing Fields. They all to some degree have said hey are less dogmatic now about expecting college QBs to be fully developed in the nuances of reading coverages,going through progressions, check downs and what not.   At the end of the day it’s about can you get the ball there.  In the words of Brett Favre when asked what was the read on that last play “1, 2, 3 put it on em”.  The likes of Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Jackson...etc.  has changed their approach.  Herbert didn’t suddenly learn to go through his progressions in one COVID offseason.  His pre-draft “negatives/red flags” are still there.  He just has the physical talent to do more than get by despite them.  AND more importantly San Diego does a good good scheming around what he’s good at.  There’s really not that much of an advantage in the NFL being able to dissect Navy’s defense with how well you go through your “reads”.

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14 minutes ago, derp said:

System wise, kind of. I do know Wilson’s offense attacked defenses off play action differently than NFL teams do. 

Level of talent relative to competition is where I was getting at those guys being challenging evals. Jones isn’t going to be throwing to multiple first round receivers and Wilson isn’t going to have all day in the pocket to hunt kill shots downfield.

Mac Jones has multiple 1st round everything on both sides of the ball and on the bench.  That’s not hurting him. 

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1 hour ago, derp said:

And yet I haven’t said...any of that or anything close and still get a lot of pushback any time I ask questions.

Well far too many have.  Its good you haven't, its just kept me away from most of these threads, I've contributed little after being confronted from a poster who believes in his shlt 200%

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10 hours ago, derp said:

I agree with most of your first and second paragraphs and all of your third. Just not your conclusion.  

I think it’s hard to project Fields and Lawrence - all quarterbacks are hard to project - but harder to project Wilson.

And I don’t think it’s prudent for a team that doesn’t have a good infrastructure in place to develop a quarterback to spend premium draft capital on a guy who’s as complicated to evaluate as Wilson.

I would even feel significantly better should they decide he’s going to sit for a year (like the superstars he gets compared to did) while they get things in order, but I doubt that’s going to happen.

I would love to be wrong.

Is your suggesting for JD to take who he views as the lesser prospect - because his team and coaching staff are too sh*tty to develop him?

two things to note:

Fields will require more development. He’s simply not as pro ready as Wilson.  

Your point is exactly why they should be taking offense at 23, 34, and 66.  The entire organization should have one main focus and one main focus only - Developing Zach Wilson.  
 

 

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We need another thread title change.  This should be titled;

"Any information presented that speaks negatively regarding Zachapono is uniformed hog wash from a wannabe draftnik that doesnt know nearly as much as I do because I listen to the real draftniks who are on TV everyday and I know there face so I believe what they say because they're handsome and it fits my narrative of ball washing everything Zachapono does on film despite it being treacherous."

 

 

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15 minutes ago, JiF said:

We need another thread title change.  This should be titled;

"Any information presented that speaks negatively regarding Zachapono is uniformed hog wash from a wannabe draftnik that doesnt know nearly as much as I do because I listen to the real draftniks who are on TV everyday and I know there face so I believe what they say because they're handsome and it fits my narrative of ball washing everything Zachapono does on film despite it being treacherous."

 

 

why do you freak out any time someone disagrees with a criticism of Wilson? News flash: our GM and coach think he’s pretty good too. 

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On 4/17/2021 at 9:35 PM, FidelioJet said:

One step at a time!
 

Tomorrow find another one - like, he’s actually a VERY good athlete.  

So watch some film last night on the kid. Noticed he’s very good at looking off his first receiver and going to the second if they are wider open. I’m guessing being in the Mormon system of polygyny since childhood going to the second option when wide open and the other is covered becomes natural. Kids more impressive more I look. 

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30 minutes ago, JiF said:

We need another thread title change.  This should be titled;

"Any information presented that speaks negatively regarding Zachapono is uniformed hog wash from a wannabe draftnik that doesnt know nearly as much as I do because I listen to the real draftniks who are on TV everyday and I know there face so I believe what they say because they're handsome and it fits my narrative of ball washing everything Zachapono does on film despite it being treacherous."

Yeah, thats the take that anyone with an ounce of smarts should derive from this thread.  

Face it, youre the one who cant seem to get a grip on amount of people throughout football who dont have your guy but Wilson as the #2 QB in this draft. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Is your suggesting for JD to take who he views as the lesser prospect - because his team and coaching staff are too sh*tty to develop him?

two things to note:

Fields will require more development. He’s simply not as pro ready as Wilson.  

Your point is exactly why they should be taking offense at 23, 34, and 66.  The entire organization should have one main focus and one main focus only - Developing Zach Wilson.  
 

 

After going back and forth with me thus far do you really think I’m suggesting they draft a worse prospect at two? Do you seriously, genuinely believe that’s the conclusion I’ve come to? Is there nothing else you can think of that I might find to be a more prudent decision?

Regarding Fields and Wilson, I’m not sure what the next step of the NFL ready argument is. I believe Fields will have a better rookie year and we’ll hear supporting cast rationale. Fields is a freak. He’ll get cheap yards in the run game and make some big plays while kept in bubble wrap in the passing game. TBD how that plays out for him long term, traits guys often regress terribly, but he can produce based on traits alone as a rookie. We see it all the time.

Your last paragraph is all well and good. Doesn’t guarantee those guys have an impact, much less that the Jets actually do it. It’s nice to want them to follow the plan you think is prudent, but none of that is guaranteed at the time they take Wilson. There’s a non trivial chance they go defense at 23. How will you feel then?

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

 

Fields will require more development. He’s simply not as pro ready as Wilson.  

 

 

The last time the Jets selected a qb in Rd 1 Josh Rosen was considered to be the most pro ready 

How is it that the kid who went to byu, played cupcakes is more pro ready that the dude who played with broken ribs on national TV? 

Also looking at mocks tevin Jenkins is going top 15. They might be able to upgrade guard but they are not going to get an instant upgrade at tackle 

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

The last time the Jets selected a qb in Rd 1 Josh Rosen was considered to be the most pro ready 

How is it that the kid who went to byu, played cupcakes is more pro ready that the dude who played with broken ribs on national TV? 

Tua was more “pro ready” than Herbert. Darnold was more “pro ready” than Allen. Trubisky was more “pro ready” than Mahomes.

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On 4/17/2021 at 2:54 PM, CTM said:

I don't get it. This seems like it's so obviously going to be a disaster. I wasn't a big Darnold guy but atleast there was some things you could point to with him in order to be optimistic. I don't see much with Wilson. Even his highlight videos are laced with under throws, atleast the ones I've seen.

Kind of blows my mind that he's going #2

The Jets official airline partner is Jetblue 

Zach wilsons uncle founded jetblue 

Woody made this pick in January 

It's got nothing to do with winning football games or scouting and everything about making the sponsors happy and presenting a marketable face of the the franchise 

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7 minutes ago, derp said:

After going back and forth with me thus far do you really think I’m suggesting they draft a worse prospect at two? Do you seriously, genuinely believe that’s the conclusion I’ve come to? Is there nothing else you can think of that I might find to be a more prudent decision?

Regarding Fields and Wilson, I’m not sure what the next step of the NFL ready argument is. I believe Fields will have a better rookie year and we’ll hear supporting cast rationale. Fields is a freak. He’ll get cheap yards in the run game and make some big plays while kept in bubble wrap in the passing game. TBD how that plays out for him long term, traits guys often regress terribly, but he can produce based on traits alone as a rookie. We see it all the time.

Your last paragraph is all well and good. Doesn’t guarantee those guys have an impact, much less that the Jets actually do it. It’s nice to want them to follow the plan you think is prudent, but none of that is guaranteed at the time they take Wilson. There’s a non trivial chance they go defense at 23. How will you feel then?

Beyond the rookie season where you predict Fields survives by his trait alone accumulating “cheap yards”, who do you think will ultimately be the better QB?  Also, do you think Fields’ college production was all on traits and “cheap yards”?

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7 minutes ago, legler82 said:

What’s up with the confusing and ambiguous question mark.  Are you asking or telling us?

Not all that confusing or ambiguous.  He asked why people are sick of all the questions.  The question mark fits.  

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1 minute ago, legler82 said:

Beyond the rookie season where you predict Fields survives by his trait alone accumulating “cheap yards”, who do you think will ultimately be the better QB?  Also, do you think Fields’ college production was all on traits and “cheap yards”?

Fields will have a better career than wilson because he has durable tools. Wilson is undersized oft injured not that fast etc. Some myles Garrett looking dude is going to break wilson in half 

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2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The Jets official airline partner is Jetblue 

Zach wilsons uncle founded jetblue 

Woody made this pick in January 

It's got nothing to do with winning football games or scouting and everything about making the sponsors happy and presenting a marketable face of the the franchise 

Another brilliant evaluation.

Woody made the pick and it was to benefit Wilsons uncles business.  A move that would harm Woodys business.

You need to stop thinking

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Fields will have a better career than wilson because he has durable tools. Wilson is undersized oft injured not that fast etc. Some myles Garrett looking dude is going to break wilson in half 

File this away with the Robby Anderson is too small and will never be a #1 Wr because he'll be broken in half by some team and etc, etc.

 

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Fields will have a better career than wilson because he has durable tools. Wilson is undersized oft injured not that fast etc. Some myles Garrett looking dude is going to break wilson in half 

Hey it’s your story and you’re sticking to it 

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4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

File this away with the Robby Anderson is too small and will never be a #1 Wr because he'll be broken in half by some team and etc, etc.

 

There's a difference between undrafted robby running a 4.3 and Zach at 2 with no compelling measurements at all 

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33 minutes ago, QB1 said:

why do you freak out any time someone disagrees with a criticism of Wilson? News flash: our GM and coach think he’s pretty good too. 

Doge GIF

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8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Another brilliant evaluation.

Woody made the pick and it was to benefit Wilsons uncles business.  A move that would harm Woodys business.

You need to stop thinking

Woody's business doesn't need to win games to make money in fact winning is more expensive than just being terrible every year 

The Jets literally fly around in a jetblue custom 

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8 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Beyond the rookie season where you predict Fields survives by his trait alone accumulating “cheap yards”, who do you think will ultimately be the better QB?  Also, do you think Fields’ college production was all on traits and “cheap yards”?

I don’t think survives is the right word. It depends entirely on situation, but I have an easier time picturing a Fields development path than most guys in this draft. It’s impossible to tell if the reaction to pressure and trying to do too much I’ll be successfully coached out. And I think pretty much all guys succeed on traits in college relative to the mental side of the game that makes guys succeed in the NFL and so trying to poke at who’s “pro ready” is generally a fruitless exercise. 

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