All Page 1 Zach Wilson Threads: MERGED

[Barkus]

37 minutes ago, msena88 said:

I want to be in on him so badly, but the more I watch the less I am. There is a YouTube channel that has every play of his from every game this season and obviously the great plays are awesome, but there is a lot of head scratching stuff in there too.

Also, I know this is incredibly flawed logic, but there is just not really any long term evidence of a player of that stature being successful in the NFL. I’m talking his specific combo of height with an incredibly narrow frame (Russ is built like a fire hydrant), I watch him and I’m just like I’ve never seen someone that looks like this be successful in the NFL. I recognize that sounds ridiculous a bit, but it’s hard to get past.

Not sure what you are talking about. He is about the same size as Aaron Rodgers, he is bigger than Drew Brees, he is identical in size to Joe Montana and Derek Carr. These are all qb’s who have 10 yr plus long careers in the nfl. How can you say you have never seen anyone his size be successful?

[GreenFish]

No. He has the skill set of a top 3 pick. It looks like he’ll get locked in the top 3. In conclusion, he’s valued just right.

[CanadienJetsFan]

Blah, blah, blah.

Deal with this reality, he’s going to be the QB of the NYJ.

let’s see what he does. Think of it this way, he can’t be worse than Sam.

[sourceworx]

He's being overvalued due to the fact that Sam Darnold sucks.

[thebuzzardman]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

Maybe

But whatever

I’ve certainly poked fun at the kids stature and Amanda Bearse-esque appearance...but he has a sh*tload of natural talent.

I’m done trying to give a half assed evaluation of these kids.

He’s officially measured in at 6’2 215 with a lightning release, big arm, at the very least he’s an above average athlete for the position, and he’s supposedly a football junkie who is committed to his craft.

Take a swing 

If it’s a miss, whatever. Not much different than what I’ve witnessed for the last 40+ years.

But sooner or later the football gods have to smile upon us instead of pissing directly in our faces.

Right?

I sure as hell hope so. Before I’m pissing on myself and asking what time MST3K comes on.

Probably God going to stay doing this to the Jets

[TinFoil]

I also like Sam Darnold.. but to me his celing with a great supporting cast and coaching is at best Ryan Tannehill. That's not good enough. 

[TinFoil]

I'd rather take a chance on new blood.. Thank Sam very much and wish him the best..

Some of you don't welcome change and that's your right. But I for one want change.. I'm sick of treading water..

[TinFoil]

I have been a Jet fan sense Richard Todd was the QB. Not as long as some but it's been a while.

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, HamBilly said:

Even before the pro-day, this forum was predominately Zach Wilson centric.

They will be Sam Howell-centric by next December 

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

No. He has the skill set of a top 3 pick. It looks like he’ll get locked in the top 3. In conclusion, he’s valued just right.

It’s that escapability facing the Butthole Community College pass rush and secondary 

[Philc1]

4 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

How did that really turn out for the Bengals? He got injured and they pick three behind us. Let's wait till he has a whole season under his belt to judge?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

He got injured because they whiffed on Jonah

[TinFoil]

I knew I should have kept lurking.. I don’t mind some ones opinion but the malice and hate vs opinions and commentary is nauseating.. 

[TinFoil]

I guess I work too much and take things as they are.. I just don’t understand the need to spew out hatred.. I love this team.

[TinFoil]

Philc1 I hope things get better for you.. you seem a bit.  Umm umm

well nevemind.

[pdxgreen]

People seem to be nuts about the QBs in this draft class.  More so than in some past years.  Heck.  I've seen reports speculating that SF traded up to take a go at Mac Jones.  I def think Wilson has benefited from the fact that so many teams are trying to get young QBs and viewing quick restart as must haves.  Since dumping a QB on a long term contract is now a valid option that a lot of teams are trying.  Whereas last year (for example) there wasn't so much hype for Herbert.  It was more like finding flaws in his game that would make it easier to explain drafting Tua.  This year there has been a lot more positive noise in the QB's overall.  And there's a good chance the top four picks will all be QB's.  Wilson of all QB's seems to be all shiny and full of potential.  I def think it's timing and also (of course) he's a damn good prospect.

[kdels62]

29 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

He got injured because they whiffed on Jonah

Jonah let up 3 sacks all year and it was the guard that got beat on the play where he got injured. 

[slimjasi]

37 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

People seem to be nuts about the QBs in this draft class.  More so than in some past years.  Heck.  I've seen reports speculating that SF traded up to take a go at Mac Jones.  I def think Wilson has benefited from the fact that so many teams are trying to get young QBs and viewing quick restart as must haves.  Since dumping a QB on a long term contract is now a valid option that a lot of teams are trying.  Whereas last year (for example) there wasn't so much hype for Herbert it was more like finding flaws in his game that would make it easier to explain drafting Tua.  This year there has been a lot more positive noise in the QB's overall.  And there's a good chance the top four picks will all be QB's.  Wilson of all QB's seems to be all shiny and full of potential.  I def think it's timing and also (of course) he's a damn good prospect.

Agreed. 

And I think you bring up an important point that bears repeating: Starting over with QBs on rookie contracts is economically and strategically sound in today's NFL. You can build a very good team very quickly if you hit it big with a good young QB who can be playing well by year 2. Yes you have to develop him and put pieces around him, but if you can get him to play well by year 2, you are in business. 

[Mogglez]

4 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Then I watched the YouTube of his "bad game" against Coastal Carolina and I actually came away impressed. They lost the game on the one-yard line in Kevin Dyson Super Bowl fashion. He was under pressure for a lot of that game was knocked around a bunch. I was like "hmmm."

Giving you Post Of The Week nods for being the only one who proved they actually watched the film of that game.

Anyone who walked away from watching very throw from the ENTIRE Coastal Carolina game with a mega negative impression proved that they did 1, or a combination, of 2 things.

1.  Didn’t watch the game and just regurgitated lazy talking points found in articles written by other people who proved that they didn’t watch the game.

2.  Just looked at the stats.

He was a couple of yards (literally 2) away from having an incredible comeback and another signature win under his belt.  He did absolutely everything he could have done at the end of that crazy game.  Coastal Carolina just made a great stand.

[RedBeardedSavage]

11 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Giving you Post Of The Week nods for being the only one who proved they actually watched the film of that game.

Anyone who walked away from watch the ENTIRE Coastal Carolina game with a mega negative impression proved that they did 1, or a combination, of 2 things.

1.  Didn’t watch the game and just regurgitated lazy talking points found in articles written by other people who proved that they didn’t watch the game.

2.  Just looked at the stats.

He was a couple of yards (literally 2) away from having an incredible comeback and another signature win under his belt.  He did absolutely everything he could have done at the end of that crazy game.  Coastal Carolina just made a great stand.

Appreciate it, hombre.

For anyone else who's interested:

 

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, TinFoil said:

Philc1 I hope things get better for you.. you seem a bit.  Umm umm

well nevemind.

He’s, literally, the worst poster on this forum.  He’s been banned on multiple accounts, is still absolutely an obnoxious, borderline troll of a poster and only managed to stick around by stealing another posters username (@phill1c) to circumvent his ban/hide from the mods after his 10 million other accounts were nuked.

I know calling out posters is frowned upon, but if I have to listen to him say “you mean tearing up _*insert childish made up school here*_  isn’t impressive?” up until the draft (followed by training camp and the regular season if we actually draft the kid) I’m going to lose it.  It’s not fun.  It actually makes discussing football here miserable when someone like him litters a thread with this garbage.  Especially when you have them on ignore and see 2,000 “you have chose to ignore content by Phil1c” posts.  It’s even more obnoxious when he brings his stupid trolling to the draft forum like he did ~1 to 2 weeks ago.

Lastly, since it’s common practice to pull up old takes on QBs (it’s happened to me multiple times, as recently as this week), lets go back and look at some of the “what we should do at QB” wisdom from one of Phil’s old accounts (username blurred of course):

 

If you’re going to rip on a prospect, (and the people who like said prospect), you better have a squuuuueaky f’ng clean track record.  I learned that lesson the hard way (Hackenberg, Mahomes, Josh Allen).  No one is perfect so don’t pretend that your words are facts because you think that you are.

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Appreciate it, hombre.

For anyone else who's interested:

 

That was a fun last drive. 

[Sperm Edwards]

9 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I definitely had my fun rippin' the little Mormon fella for quite a while. Played nobody, came out of nowhere, Mormon Timberlake-y, diminutive and shoulder/hand surgery. It was easy pickens'. 

Then pandemic boredom drove me to the QB School channel on YouTube - came away with "Ok, he's got some skills, I can understand some of the hype..." But he's still a little sh*t. 

Then I watched the YouTube of his "bad game" against Coastal Carolina and I actually came away impressed. They lost the game on the one-yard line in Kevin Dyson Super Bowl fashion. He was under pressure for a lot of that game was knocked around a bunch. I was like "hmmm."

Then Chris Simms, who I used to laugh at several years back with the ol' "How do you have this job - you sucked at quarterback", had him atop his rankings. And when you look up how that dude has ranked quarterbacks over the past 4 years, you're like "Wow, Ok, maybe you sucked at quarterback and maybe for some strange reason you always keep your top button buttoned without a tie on, but goddam you can identify collegiate quarterback talent that translates to the NFL."

I'm still worried about New Zach City bein' a little too small and how he'll hold up. I'm also worried about that shoulder injury, but I don't have the access or expertise to make any medical judgment on that, and it bodes well that he's already come back strong from it. 

Certainly changed my opinion from the beginning of this process. 

Same here. Watched that as well, figuring the other games would be highlight reels anyway & wanted to see what his “bad” game (also the only opponent who wasn’t a pushover) looked like. I ended up posting my breakdown here since I sometimes take notes when I’m watching anyway (mostly because my memory isn’t what it was lol).

So much is made of this game in a negative light because it’s so easy to look at stats & say, oh look at that his crap game came against the only ranked one; pass. Stats don’t tell a 90-yard TD getting called back for a penalty, or a play I think one of his WRs decided to run backwards to effectively end the drive by making 3rd & 4 into 3rd & 20something, or any significant plays where the pass was right on the money but simply dropped, and the one pick being a 60 yd hail mary as the first half ended not from a crappy pass. 

Here: 

 

I’ve got concerns about the competition level being low since all those tight throws wouldn’t be caught against good DBs. Many (possibly most) would be deflected and a couple might have been picked off. On a number of them I’m sure he had other options. Did he just chuck it because he knows the cb won’t ever contest the pass no matter how tight the coverage seems, a la Kyle Wilson, or is he stubborn like Favre and is going to throw an extra 15 picks and 50 incompletions because of it? 

My take is that discipline can be trained, and that’s easier to develop than teaching someone to throw that far downfield through a tire hole, off balance if not on the run outright. 

I’m not as worried as some about the injuries, but I don’t have zero concern either. Admittedly, I’d rather they weren’t there but they weren’t the result of standing in the pocket too long & getting hit. 

Last concern - and probably the biggest I’ve got - is the short track record of success. Guys with 1 good year are not the typical future success stories. Maybe he really needed that surgery and even though the shoulder was healed medically it took a full year for him to get used to how it felt. Maybe he just got better. Maybe it’s a lot of smoke & mirrors, and the crap competition made him look like a much better QB than he is. 

He seems like an accurate thrower with plenty of arm, even if it isn’t omg, and has a lightning-fast release. The rest of it, in  terms of his field vision & judgment, honestly is hard to fully tell from any prospect. So maybe the first 2 checkboxes are enough to take a shot. 

Guess right and we have finally solved this problem for some time. Get it wrong and big deal draft someone else in 2-3 years. The rest of the core of this team will still be here for the next guy if Douglas drafts well otherwise. 

[adobolo2]

5 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Appreciate it, hombre.

For anyone else who's interested:

 

I've watched most of his games but I'm no qb analyst so it hard to know what, like did he miss an underneath trying to take to much so I always try and find an expert who has done a walk trough of the games explaining all wilson's throws.

Here is one for the CC game

 

[JustInFudge]

8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

If you’re going to rip on a prospect, (and the people who like said prospect), you better have a squuuuueaky f’ng clean track record.  I learned that lesson the hard way (Hackenberg, Mahomes, Josh Allen).  No one is perfect so don’t pretend that your words are facts because you think that you are.

 

8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Giving you Post Of The Week nods for being the only one who proved they actually watched the film of that game.

Anyone who walked away from watching very throw from the ENTIRE Coastal Carolina game with a mega negative impression proved that they did 1, or a combination, of 2 things.

1.  Didn’t watch the game and just regurgitated lazy talking points found in articles written by other people who proved that they didn’t watch the game.

2.  Just looked at the stats.

He was a couple of yards (literally 2) away from having an incredible comeback and another signature win under his belt.  He did absolutely everything he could have done at the end of that crazy game.  Coastal Carolina just made a great stand.

I love you brother, but forgive me for interfering this lovely rant.  I will never get in the way of a good ripping of Philc but to make the comment above, shorty after this post, I just had chuckle and comment.

I watched that Coastal Carolina game, multiple times and was thoroughly unimpressed.  And it's funny you bring this game up in this thread because that game specifically I remember the announcers making the Pat Mahomes comparison because threw a laser across his body both feet in the air and nailed his guy in the #'s, pretty ironic given the thread.  3 years ago that was the biggest no-no in Football and now we're looking for this?   That game showcased the big time concerns of Zach Wilson; inaccurate, bad footwork, fading in clean pockets, running from clean pockets, inability to climb the pocket he just wants to leave it, careless with his body running the ball, hold the ball like a loaf of bread when he runs (didnt he just out right drop the ball once scrambling on this tape?).  This 1 minute drill you guys are drooling over, it 4 plays, inaccurate pass but great adjustment, a check down, a slant, a wide open sideline throw CC didnt cover for some reason and then threw it 10 yards short of the endzone on the last play of the game, you'd kill Sam Darnold if he did that...doesnt mean I didnt watch, dont know what I'm watching or just look at the stats. 

 

 

[msena88]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

 

I love you brother, but forgive me for interfering this lovely rant.  I will never get in the way of a good ripping of Philc but to make the comment above, shorty after this post, I just had chuckle and comment.

I watched that Coastal Carolina game, multiple times and was thoroughly unimpressed.  And it's funny you bring this game up in this thread because that game specifically I remember the announcers making the Pat Mahomes comparison because threw a laser across his body both feet in the air and nailed his guy in the #'s, pretty ironic given the thread.  3 years ago that was the biggest no-no in Football and now we're looking for this?   That game showcased the big time concerns of Zach Wilson; inaccurate, bad footwork, fading in clean pockets, running from clean pockets, inability to climb the pocket he just wants to leave it, careless with his body running the ball, hold the ball like a loaf of bread when he runs (didnt he just out right drop the ball once scrambling on this tape?).  This 1 minute drill you guys are drooling over, it 4 plays, inaccurate pass but great adjustment, a check down, a slant, a wide open sideline throw CC didnt cover for some reason and then threw it 10 yards short of the endzone on the last play of the game, you'd kill Sam Darnold if he did that...doesnt mean I didnt watch, dont know what I'm watching or just look at the stats. 

 

 

I’m with ya, I see so many people citing this game for the positives, but there was way more bad than good. To use a saying from golf, playing QB is almost more about “how good is your bad?” Wilson’s bad is all the same stuff we kill Darnold for, heaving balls up, not setting his feet, wild shovel passes, etc...

I get the highlights are fun but I don’t know how everything else in between doesn’t leave you terrified. To me he’s an ultimate boom or bust guy, and if we are going that way then give me Lance who has a way bigger toolbox. 

[sec101row23]

He’s definitely being way over-hyped and in turn being overvalued.  The Mahomes comparisons are reckless and setting some pretty high and unrealistic expectations.  It’s actually unfair to Wilson.   

[bitonti]

15 hours ago, HamBilly said:

That's what I am alluding to. He does have red flags that people are ignoring.

For example, he is a 1 year wonder. Not saying they will have the same fate, but Mitch Trubisky had a similar rise to Wilson.

When people say next years qb class sucks it's like OK where was Zach wilson this time last year? 

[k-met57]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

When people say next years qb class sucks it's like OK where was Zach wilson this time last year? 

exactly right. where was Joe Burrow prior to his last year? someone will separate next season as the "next guy"

[JustInFudge]

34 minutes ago, msena88 said:

I’m with ya, I see so many people citing this game for the positives, but there was way more bad than good. To use a saying from golf, playing QB is almost more about “how good is your bad?” Wilson’s bad is all the same stuff we kill Darnold for, heaving balls up, not setting his feet, wild shovel passes, etc...

I get the highlights are fun but I don’t know how everything else in between doesn’t leave you terrified. To me he’s an ultimate boom or bust guy, and if we are going that way then give me Lance who has a way bigger toolbox. 

That's what is wild to me, it's all the same bad habits that kill Sam and everyone here loves to point out about this game and you see all the same exact stuff, right there on tape but completely ignore it? Its weird.  And like Sam, it's one thing to get away with it in college, a different ball game in the NFL. 

I think he's going to need a ton of work and is by far, the riskiest pick in the draft.  I just dont see this huge upgrade from Sam when I watch him but 100% convinced we're taking him so I just have to hope I'm way wrong here.

 

[sec101row23]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

That's what is wild to me, it's all the same bad habits that kill Sam and everyone here loves to point out about this game and you see all the same exact stuff, right there on tape but completely ignore it? Its weird.  And like Sam, it's one thing to get away with it in college, a different ball game in the NFL. 

I think he's going to need a ton of work and is by far, the riskiest pick in the draft.  I just dont see this huge upgrade from Sam when I watch him but 100% convinced we're taking him so I just have to hope I'm way wrong here.

 

But he’s the next Mahomes, it’s all good.  

[Joe W. Namath]

I think he is being over evaluated.  he is clearly the 2nd best qb in the draft.  The jets need a qb and pick 2nd.

Its a no brainer to take him at 2 and if he sucks 2 years from now, you draft another one.

Its not rocket science.

[adobolo2]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

That's what is wild to me, it's all the same bad habits that kill Sam and everyone here loves to point out about this game and you see all the same exact stuff, right there on tape but completely ignore it? Its weird.  And like Sam, it's one thing to get away with it in college, a different ball game in the NFL. 

I think he's going to need a ton of work and is by far, the riskiest pick in the draft.  I just dont see this huge upgrade from Sam when I watch him but 100% convinced we're taking him so I just have to hope I'm way wrong here.

 

Exactly, wilson has a lot of big play ability but misses a lot of the simple stuff, he doesn't see the middle of the field very well. I presume if he is as football crazy and study's the game the way people say he does then this is coachable because he has the arm. 

I'd expect Zack to start the season on the bench for us and learn, as I said before I don't think any rookie QB has started for the Shannon coaching tree since RG3 and its the right way to play this. This is a leaning year for the Coaches and the rookie QB.

[msena88]

38 minutes ago, JiF said:

That's what is wild to me, it's all the same bad habits that kill Sam and everyone here loves to point out about this game and you see all the same exact stuff, right there on tape but completely ignore it? Its weird.  And like Sam, it's one thing to get away with it in college, a different ball game in the NFL. 

I think he's going to need a ton of work and is by far, the riskiest pick in the draft.  I just dont see this huge upgrade from Sam when I watch him but 100% convinced we're taking him so I just have to hope I'm way wrong here.

 

Agreed - I really hope I am wrong but when you go to the "every throw" clips and not just the highlight clips, it's eye opening. I'm not sure how NFL personnel departments and coaching staffs could watch his tape and not have major concerns about this kid at 2.

If anyone wants to really get into it, this is every play from him this year. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptd0I0CYEr0

[FTL Jet Fan]

At this point I am taking the same approach as I do with the Jets in general and that is a wait and see approach. I try not to judge these guys without as much knowledge as I can before forming an opinion on them but I do have my concerns about Wilson as I do hopes. I do like Fields but have my concerns also. 

[Irish Jet]

Why in the world would Allen's success have anything to do with it?

There's hardly an NFL QB less like him. There strengths/concerns coming out were polar opposites.