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12 hours ago, chirorob said:

Well, they won 5 WS, but they won 4 with a team the Stick Michael built and Cashman inherited.

I could say since 2001 the Yankees have won 1 WS, despite having one of the highest, if not the highest payroll in the sport year over year.

It’s incredible how Mangini, a coach, gets credit for jet draft picks but Gene Michael gets no credit for the Yankees success last 30 years. 

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The guy has got to be one of the dumbest players I’ve ever seen. He’s on a knee with a runner on 3rd and 2 previous wild pitches. He can’t speak English after being in the states for 10 years. He’s go

Greatest example of Analytics killing you was last year in the World Series when Cash to out Blake Snell when the Dodger lineup turned over for the 3rd time. Snell was absolutely dealing that night bu

There are 3 Yankees who can actually hit good pitching and that's, DJ, Urshela, and Hicks no way this team wins a WS because they just can't manufacture runs to save their lives and they strike out at

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12 hours ago, chirorob said:

DJ has 5 years remaining on his contract, Hicks has 5, Stanton has 7.

My biggest issue with Cashman is the big contracts he has given out (or taken on in the case of Stanton)

Stanton I can live with because he’s an offensive juggernaut (when healthy)

 

Hicks and LeMaheiu don’t steal bases.  If they aren’t hitting high for average they don’t really do much and Cashman like you said locked these guys into long term deals

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10 hours ago, undertow said:

It's amazing to me there's still people who think Cashman is a good GM.....the guy is responsible for 1 championship in 20 years and that title was bought by overpaying CC and Texeria.  The teams of the past 10 years are built the opposite of the Yankees dynasty in the 90's it's basically three run homer ball and that's about it.

He got to buy Tex and CC and again, same core built by Stick (Jeter, Rivera, petite, posada)

 

Cashman is the real problem but there’s 0.0 chance he gets fired even if we miss the playoffs next season

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5 hours ago, BP said:

Cashman’s claim to fame was signing texierra (cost them Mike trout although who knows if the yanks draft trout} cc sabathia and aj Burnett. He continues to resign Gardner who I can’t stand. And the only draft pick has been judge. He did a great job of turning things around from 2016 to 2017 but let it get stagnant and didn’t build on it. The Yankees have needed left handed hitters for two years now. Joey Gallo sucks, rizzo is a stop gap who doesn’t deserve a ton of money.

 

my concern has been the yankee lineup filled with guys not having productive at bats (other than lamehui) for 2-3 years now. The Yankees scored just over 700 runs this year (pathetic) with their “vaunted offense”.The blue jays, and Red Sox and rays have scored well over 800 runs this year and all of these teams kill the Yankees with professional at bats. In comparison the 98 Yankees scored almost 1000 runs and they didn’t have a lot of baller home run hitters, just smart baseball players.

This team can’t manufacture runs.  It’s all or nothing offense.  If Stanton and Judge aren’t hitting 400ft homers there’s basically no offense.  We have no speed at CF nor in the infield.
 

 

 There are a bunch of awesome UFA Shortstops available this offseason.  Can we sign one and move Gleyber to 2nd?  Nope, we already gave DJ that asinine contract 

 

 

And our starting rotation is Cole and a bunch of 4th and 5th starters

 

I wouldn’t be so negative but the AL East is a demonic division 

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4 hours ago, doitny said:

i know there no chance he comes to the Mets, i was just saying we would take him in a minute. you take your success for granted. i cant think of any team who wouldnt want to make the playoffs 16-20 years.

but there is a price for that success. 

 

I'm not taking anything for granted I grew up during the Mattingly years when they won nothing and the Yankees are the only franchise I've experienced a championship from.....the 90's Yankees taught me what a winning team looks like and the Cashman Yankees are the polar opposite and that's what makes it so frustrating.  It's almost like analytics makes people stupid sometimes or the way Cashman builds these team doesn't work over a short sample size vs the best pitchers and teams.

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12 minutes ago, undertow said:

I'm not taking anything for granted I grew up during the Mattingly years when they won nothing and the Yankees are the only franchise I've experienced a championship from.....the 90's Yankees taught me what a winning team looks like and the Cashman Yankees are the polar opposite and that's what makes it so frustrating.  It's almost like analytics makes people stupid sometimes.

i can agree about the analytics.

i listen every day to " The Michael Kay Show" . i never thought as a Mets fan i could but he is good. hes not a homer and there funny. 

anyway Michael said last week i think that Cora gets a lineup sheet everyday but thats only a suggestion. he has the power to play who he wants. Boone on the other hand gets the same but either isnt allowed to change it or agrees with it. i believe they also tell him when to pull a pitcher.

and thats what the Yankees want. and thats why if you fire Boone your just going to get another Boone. no big name guys will come here if there force to play who the analytics dept wants them too.

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2 minutes ago, doitny said:

i can agree about the analytics.

i listen every day to " The Michael Kay Show" . i never thought as a Mets fan i could but he is good. hes not a homer and there funny. 

anyway Michael said last week i think that Cora gets a lineup sheet everyday but thats only a suggestion. he has the power to play who he wants. Boone on the other hand gets the same but either isnt allowed to change it or agrees with it. i believe they also tell him when to pull a pitcher.

and thats what the Yankees want. and thats why if you fire Boone your just going to get another Boone. no big name guys will come here if there force to play who the analytics dept wants them too.

Yeah I agree 100 percent with all that which is why I go after Cashman not Boone.  The problem is analytics over 162 games works in a short series you need to manage more with feel and you need to manufacture runs in big spots....moving runners over, stealing bases, playing defense are all things the Yankees are terrible at....it's pretty much homer or nothing which works vs bad pitchers.

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2 hours ago, Albaniajet said:

This team can’t manufacture runs.  It’s all or nothing offense.  If Stanton and Judge aren’t hitting 400ft homers there’s basically no offense.  We have no speed at CF nor in the infield.
 

 

 There are a bunch of awesome UFA Shortstops available this offseason.  Can we sign one and move Gleyber to 2nd?  Nope, we already gave DJ that asinine contract 

 

 

And our starting rotation is Cole and a bunch of 4th and 5th starters

 

I wouldn’t be so negative but the AL East is a demonic division 

Totally agree. Home run or nothing.
 

Theyre gonna move DJ to 1st base, leave Torres at second and move urshela back to 3rd and sign a ss. 

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Unless Cashman can get away from building a slow pitch softball team that either hits homeruns, stirkes out or flies out and runs the bases like a slo pitch softball team on its third keg of beer and starts building a baseball team then he has to go, which means Boone is gone as well.

I was gobsmacked listening to Kay the other day when he said the Yankees had coveted Gallo for years. Seriously ? 

It is not just with the Yanks it is throughout their minor leagues as well. This is what they are looking for and this is what they are teaching.

Clint Frazier may have "Legendary Bat Speed" but what good is it if you miss the ball more than you hit it.

It wasn't that long ago that Baseball America had the Yankees listed in what the top 5 in terms of prospects. Where are those guys ? Some have been traded, Where are the Florials, Clarke Schmidt's , Devi Garcia's ? 

You know there is nothing wrong in playing a guy  that hits 260-270 hits 30-35 doubles, 20-25 homeruns drives in 80 runs a year plays good defense and can steal you a base.

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9 hours ago, Albaniajet said:

Stanton I can live with because he’s an offensive juggernaut (when healthy)

 

Hicks and LeMaheiu don’t steal bases.  If they aren’t hitting high for average they don’t really do much and Cashman like you said locked these guys into long term deals

I like Stanton, but how healthy is he going to be in 3 years?   5 years?

If you can unload that albatross of a contract, this may be the only year to do it.

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8 hours ago, undertow said:

Yeah I agree 100 percent with all that which is why I go after Cashman not Boone.  The problem is analytics over 162 games works in a short series you need to manage more with feel and you need to manufacture runs in big spots....moving runners over, stealing bases, playing defense are all things the Yankees are terrible at....it's pretty much homer or nothing which works vs bad pitchers.

Analytics has it's place, but it's not everything.

A hitter like Gallo, who walks a ton and makes poor contact can be valuable in the long season, but what does he do in the playoffs when you aren't going up against the #4 and 5 starters?   Someone like Eovaldi the other night, who is throwing strikes, and making quality pitches?  

And, listening to AROD was awful.   He went off about how the Yankee swing rate that night was so high, they weren't taking pitches.  Eovaldi was pounding the strike zone (it was impressive considering all his past arm issues).  If the pitcher is throwing strikes, and you are just taking, every hitter will be down 0-2 or 1-2.

Analytics also does not take into account the actual mental aspect of the game.   Is a guy like Stanton, who does not like being a DH, and hits worse because of it?   Or Torres, who struggles at SS and takes those struggles to the plate.   If a runner is on 1st, and he is never going to steal, the pitcher can ignore him.   If the runner can steal, and the pitcher has to pay attention to him, does the pitcher not execute his pitches properly?

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24 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Analytics has it's place, but it's not everything.

A hitter like Gallo, who walks a ton and makes poor contact can be valuable in the long season, but what does he do in the playoffs when you aren't going up against the #4 and 5 starters?   Someone like Eovaldi the other night, who is throwing strikes, and making quality pitches?  

And, listening to AROD was awful.   He went off about how the Yankee swing rate that night was so high, they weren't taking pitches.  Eovaldi was pounding the strike zone (it was impressive considering all his past arm issues).  If the pitcher is throwing strikes, and you are just taking, every hitter will be down 0-2 or 1-2.

Analytics also does not take into account the actual mental aspect of the game.   Is a guy like Stanton, who does not like being a DH, and hits worse because of it?   Or Torres, who struggles at SS and takes those struggles to the plate.   If a runner is on 1st, and he is never going to steal, the pitcher can ignore him.   If the runner can steal, and the pitcher has to pay attention to him, does the pitcher not execute his pitches properly?

Greatest example of Analytics killing you was last year in the World Series when Cash to out Blake Snell when the Dodger lineup turned over for the 3rd time. Snell was absolutely dealing that night but because the numbers say that 3rd time around Snell starts getting hit you should take him out. 

Analytics have their place but they should be not be the know all for baseball managing

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And I will throw one other thing in there about the Rays and their analytics. Their shift on Gallo, playing 4 outfielders and leaving the entire left side of the infield open with a runner on third was beyond stupid, especially knowing that Gallo has bunted several times just to beat the regular shift team employ on him. It is that kind of stuff that will come up and bite the Rays again if they go the World Series.

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10 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

Greatest example of Analytics killing you was last year in the World Series when Cash to out Blake Snell when the Dodger lineup turned over for the 3rd time. Snell was absolutely dealing that night but because the numbers say that 3rd time around Snell starts getting hit you should take him out. 

Analytics have their place but they should be not be the know all for baseball managing

exactly...Roberts took out Scherzer in the 4th a few days ago and got away with it.

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3 hours ago, shawn306 said:

Unless Cashman can get away from building a slow pitch softball team that either hits homeruns, stirkes out or flies out and runs the bases like a slo pitch softball team on its third keg of beer and starts building a baseball team then he has to go, which means Boone is gone as well.

I was gobsmacked listening to Kay the other day when he said the Yankees had coveted Gallo for years. Seriously ? 

It is not just with the Yanks it is throughout their minor leagues as well. This is what they are looking for and this is what they are teaching.

Clint Frazier may have "Legendary Bat Speed" but what good is it if you miss the ball more than you hit it.

It wasn't that long ago that Baseball America had the Yankees listed in what the top 5 in terms of prospects. Where are those guys ? Some have been traded, Where are the Florials, Clarke Schmidt's , Devi Garcia's ? 

You know there is nothing wrong in playing a guy  that hits 260-270 hits 30-35 doubles, 20-25 homeruns drives in 80 runs a year plays good defense and can steal you a base.

Believe it or not I read that Joey Gallo is a really popular player among the analytics community and has great scores...all that says to me is there's obvious flaws in the system .lol

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12 minutes ago, undertow said:

Believe it or not I read that Joey Gallo is a really popular player among the analytics community and has great scores...all that says to me is there's obvious flaws in the system .lol

Analytics where Rob Deer and Dave Kingman are glorifed

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13 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

Analytics where Rob Deer and Dave Kingman are glorifed

Funny but true....I have always said the Yankees have built their team with 9 Dave Kingmans. lol

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9 hours ago, undertow said:

Yeah I agree 100 percent with all that which is why I go after Cashman not Boone.  The problem is analytics over 162 games works in a short series you need to manage more with feel and you need to manufacture runs in big spots....moving runners over, stealing bases, playing defense are all things the Yankees are terrible at....it's pretty much homer or nothing which works vs bad pitchers.

you need to get rid of both....but only if Hal isnt going to force the same stuff on the new guys.

look at LaRusa. you know hes doing whatever the hell he wants. nobody is forcing anything on him. but will Hal allow that? 

they said this not long ago on Kays show. maybe Hal is fine with this. since 1994 ..27 years the Yankees have missed the playoffs maybe 5 times? thats incredible!! that has to be the most wins BY FAR in the last 27 years. 

whats that saying in lotto...you got to be in it to win it....well you have to be in the playoffs to win the WS. i dont know if Hal will want to change it. to bring in guys who look at analytics as a suggestion and not the rule of law.

3 hours ago, shawn306 said:

 

It is not just with the Yanks it is throughout their minor leagues as well. This is what they are looking for and this is what they are teaching.

Clint Frazier may have "Legendary Bat Speed" but what good is it if you miss the ball more than you hit it.

It wasn't that long ago that Baseball America had the Yankees listed in what the top 5 in terms of prospects. Where are those guys ? Some have been traded, Where are the Florials, Clarke Schmidt's , Devi Garcia's ? 

 

well what did you except after 27 years of winning. the minor leagues where going to take a hit.

and every other year your making big trades for, Stanton, Chapman, Rizzo, etc...  theres only so much you can take from the well. good news for you is that the guys you traded never really do anything. 

that Dynasty probably hurt you more than you think. the Yankees where never thought of as its there right to win every year. but that changed after 4 out of 5 years being the champs. now you have to make the playoffs every year. 

so now you because of finishing so high your not getting the high draft picks that got you Jeter and others. you have to sign high price FAs who are either in there late 20s or early 30s. no superstars in waiting coming thru the system. 

what you really need is a JD rebuild. which is quite common in baseball. trade all your good players. get some good prospects. i couple of years of losing will get you some high draft picks to get your core of young players, and come back ready to go in 2-3 years. but the fans would never allow it. 

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10 hours ago, undertow said:

Yeah I agree 100 percent with all that which is why I go after Cashman not Boone.  The problem is analytics over 162 games works in a short series you need to manage more with feel and you need to manufacture runs in big spots....moving runners over, stealing bases, playing defense are all things the Yankees are terrible at....it's pretty much homer or nothing which works vs bad pitchers.

The only part of analytics that’s actually valid is OBP over BA.  The rest of it is so overrated

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1 hour ago, shawn306 said:

And I will throw one other thing in there about the Rays and their analytics. Their shift on Gallo, playing 4 outfielders and leaving the entire left side of the infield open with a runner on third was beyond stupid, especially knowing that Gallo has bunted several times just to beat the regular shift team employ on him. It is that kind of stuff that will come up and bite the Rays again if they go the World Series.

What was even more stupid was Gallo not bunting each and every single time they did that

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2 hours ago, chirorob said:

I like Stanton, but how healthy is he going to be in 3 years?   5 years?

If you can unload that albatross of a contract, this may be the only year to do it.

I think Stanton will be fine.  He’s a full time DH and doesn’t seem to be bothered by it.  When he’s actually playing he’s an offensive juggernaut 

 

The bigger problem is us having no speed in the infield or outfield.  Gardner inevitably will get another one year deal on the cheap from the Steinbrenners and be our CF for 2/3 the season again after Hicks (who doesn’t get on base and doesn’t steal bases) gets injured


the contract we need to somehow unload is DJ.  Good luck with that

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41 minutes ago, Albaniajet said:

The only part of analytics that’s actually valid is OBP over BA.  The rest of it is so overrated

I mean there's a ton of advance analytics that are important but the birth of them were meant for lower salary teams to find diamond in the ruff players and compete not for 300 million dollar teams to pull stud pitchers in the 4th, have bullpen playoff games, and completely ignore the mental aspects of the game like people are robots.  There's smart teams that implement analytics and there's dumb ones...Cashman is dumb and the worst part he is arrogant about it.

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8 hours ago, undertow said:

I mean there's a ton of advance analytics that are important but the birth of them were meant for lower salary teams to find diamond in the ruff players and compete not for 300 million dollar teams to pull stud pitchers in the 4th, have bullpen playoff games, and completely ignore the mental aspects of the game like people are robots.  There's smart teams that implement analytics and there's dumb ones...Cashman is dumb and the worst part he is arrogant about it.

I think it’s overhyped even in that respect. They made such a huge deal about Billy Beane and the A’s using analytics they even made that dumb movie

 

The early 2000s A’s were good even after Giambi and Damon left because they had 3 Ace Starting Pitchers all in their primes

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1 hour ago, Albaniajet said:

I think it’s overhyped even in that respect. They made such a huge deal about Billy Beane and the A’s using analytics they even made that dumb movie

 

The early 2000s A’s were good even after Giambi and Damon left because they had 3 Ace Starting Pitchers all in their primes

yeah that's true....and they didn't even mention them in the movie. lol

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