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The Draft Wilson/Keep Darnold, too, Hypothesis Thread


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36 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

No player should ever be handed a starting job. They must win it and then play well enough to keep it. Competition brings out the best in an athlete.  
 

In a perfect world Sam wins the starting job mainly due to having 3 years of experience and has his best season while Wilson wows everyone in practice closing the gap in the final quarter of the season. The jets can then trade Sam for a good return in the offseason with confidence that a continually improving Wilson can take over the O.

The only way the Jets can trade Darnold in the offseason is if they pick up his fifth year option before 5/3. Is part of your plan fully guaranteeing Sam $18.8M? 

By the middle of next week, I expect either Darnold or the #2 pick to be traded. Probably Darnold. 

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If no serious offers for Sam, start him and let Wilson learn.   This has been done everywhere... mahomes, herbert, tua, mayfield, lamar.      

This idea has been kicked around a little bit but it seems to be getting more legs lately.  Some points being made in the linked video below... If the Jets keep Darnold and he departs after ne

IMO if we take Wilson it would be wise to move on from Sam. If the best offer we are getting is a late 3rd round pick then I'd try to do #23 + Sam for #19 (Washington) or #20 (Bears), value is about a

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3 minutes ago, slats said:

The only way the Jets can trade Darnold in the offseason is if they pick up his fifth year option before 5/3. Is part of your plan fully guaranteeing Sam $18.8M? 

By the middle of next week, I expect either Darnold or the #2 pick to be traded. Probably Darnold. 

If the deadline is 5/3 why are you expecting next week?

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On 4/3/2021 at 7:49 AM, k-met57 said:

its ok to speculate, but if we draft wilson we wont keep darnold. it wouldnt be fair to darnold or wilson and the FO knows it. media and fans in NY would not make that situation easy at all.

Fans and media didnt cause issues when the Giants were playing Warner with Eli sitting on the bench.  

If Sam beats Wilson out in camp, he starts with Wilson on the bench.  Yes if Sam falters in a game the fans will scream for Wilson.   We're worrying about Sams feelings at this point?  Or are we more concerned with Wilsons development and maybe increasing Sams value at the same time.

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12 minutes ago, Lith said:

All logical arguments. But are there really enough reps to go around for two developmental QBs learning a new offense the way camp is structured now.

This is the biggest thing. 

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14 minutes ago, Lith said:

I get what some folks are saying in this thread. Why give Sam away cheap, have two options, let competition bring out the best in these guys. All logical arguments. But are there really enough reps to go around for two developmental QBs learning a new offense the way camp is structured now.

I think that in today’s game, you need to commit to one young guy and devote all your resource to developing that guy. If we are going to commit to Wilson in a couple of weeks, then really commit. Devote all your resources to developing and support8mg Wilson. Bring in a vet backup who knows the system (Nick Mullens anyone?). If Wilson is not ready for week 1, let Mullens start until Wilson is ready to take over. If Wilson is our guy, go all in to bring him along.


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That is the most logical option and the one I would like to see.

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On 4/2/2021 at 11:37 PM, JETSY14 said:

Ok your saying JD who brought us from a 7 win team to a  2 win team will bring us to greatness thru the draft. 

How about blaming JD for sucking last year because he did nothing to solve our offensive line problems [ranked 29 th last year]

I think JD's  greatness is alittle over inflated and he is trying to be too cute with this QB situation.  We need to more on from the Darnold era.  Sincerely,  James Morgan.

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Keeping both Sam and drafting Wilson is a major mistake. If you take a QB at #2 OA then he's your 'guy' and the Jets should be 100% behind him. If they go with Wilson trade Sam for whatever you can get.

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30 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Having Sam beat out Wilson will change nothing regarding Wilsons value. Sam has talent and the narrative will be he was the highest rated QB since Luck and at 23 that talent came out with the talent added to the team and the coaching.  

If next seasons QB sucks Wilson will be worth more than the #1 we used on his on the trade market.  Or you have Sam to trade at some point 

Im all for holding on to Sam if the trade market doesnt open up

 

Agreed, its not logical to me to throw Sam away simply to get him off the team and away from a rookie.  He has unrealized potential. Will he reach his potential? No idea, but I don't think it's a smart move to trade him for a small return now.  I'd hedge the position and hope both players thrive in the new system leaving me a difficult decision in the off-season.

20 minutes ago, Lith said:

I get what some folks are saying in this thread. Why give Sam away cheap, have two options, let competition bring out the best in these guys. All logical arguments. But are there really enough reps to go around for two developmental QBs learning a new offense the way camp is structured now.

I think that in today’s game, you need to commit to one young guy and devote all your resource to developing that guy. If we are going to commit to Wilson in a couple of weeks, then really commit. Devote all your resources to developing and support8mg Wilson. Bring in a vet backup who knows the system (Nick Mullens anyone?). If Wilson is not ready for week 1, let Mullens start until Wilson is ready to take over. If Wilson is our guy, go all in to bring him along.


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This a valid point. With a reduced off-season you may right, and with Nick you know what you've got, and he doesn't need to consume reps. I see both sides.

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37 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

If the deadline is 5/3 why are you expecting next week?

That's the deadline for the fifth year option. Moving Darnold before that date allows his new team to decide whether or not they want to execute it. 

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1 hour ago, MysticalJet2 said:

I agree with someone who posted in another thread that you don't create a QB controversy with an incoming rookie Coach and new staff when you don't have to.  He has many many other things that need to be taken care of and worry about.  This would put JD at top of my sh*t list because it would be a manufactured problem and distraction (especially with the NY media) that could and should have been avoided.

This may all be to increase what they can get for Darnold by or just after the 2021 draft i.e even after the draft we can trade him for a player to help at a position and/or a 2022 draft pick. Because ideally you want a vet backup to Wilson then so there is no controversy.

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3 hours ago, JetPotato said:

Sam isn't dumb. He knows he should take any situation he can to stay in the NFL.

This, and b/c darnold knows the jets are still his best chance of starting in 2021.  Anywhere else he goes next year he’ll have a more difficult path to starting.

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Zach or Sam playing behind a line that includes even two of Van Roten, Lewis and Fant there's a good chance that whomever of them looses that QB competition in camp will end up starting at some point in the season anyway.

Late December in a blizzard, just as the new oline replacements looks like it is finally beginning to jel. The camera pans to the Jets bench. Snow is falling and James Morgan has got his helmet strapped on as he starts warm up throws on the sideline.

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2 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

This.  If you think Darnold is that good then don't take a qb at 2.  Trade down for more assets.

To me its all about allowing Wilson to earn the job and to be allowed the time to develop if hes not ready to start in the NFL by Sept.  The added benefit is you should be able to increase Sams value if the whole world is right and so much of Sams problems were lack of talent and coaching which in everyones estimation has been upgraded

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44 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I will never understand the anti-competition, anoint-the-new-QB, why-should-he-have-to-actually-earn it mindset of some fans.

The most over-rated "drama" fans think destroys teams (but doesn't) is the so-called "QB Controversy".

Competition is the best way to get people to play their best, and to make sure the best player gets to play.

Anointing a guy as the #1 without him ever having taken a snap at the NFL level.....is stupid.

There is no distraction, there is no broken locker room or locker room divide, there is no problem.  Two young QB's, compete, best man wins and plays. 

As long as players see the competition was fair, and the best guy playing the best won, there is no distraction, there is no divide.  That divide is created only when the Org. puts it's finger on the scale, and gives the job to the lesser player.  

But no, we'd prefer to keep making the same mistakes we made with both Sanchez and Sam, just name them the Man, screw making them earn anything, surely that will work this time, right?

100% agree. It's a false narrative. What team has it ever hurt? 

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As we say with Sheldon Richardson, a team will trade a second round pick to insure a playoff spot.

If Sam looks good, someone running a WCO will pony up a second round pick for him mid-season if they feel they need a backup. Look at the Bills did with Trubisky.  

Trubisky signed a one year very cheap contract to basically get rebooted by the Bills to be another Josh Allen style QB.  The Bills get a comp pick when he signs somewhere else.  He just has to look good in some mop up duty/fill in.   The Jets can basically do the same thing with Darnold.

The 49ers ran multiple QBs-it was not their back up QB that lost them games.  Having two decent, credible QBs seems like the better option, particularly in 17 game season.  The second QB should always come in to close out winning games, when playoffs are guaranteed, if the starting QB needs “load management.”

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

To me its all about allowing Wilson to earn the job and to be allowed the time to develop if hes not ready to start in the NFL by Sept.  The added benefit is you should be able to increase Sams value if the whole world is right and so much of Sams problems were lack of talent and coaching which in everyones estimation has been upgraded

If this were any other team I might be inclined to agree with you but seeing how this is the Jets and we have new coaching staff, I just feel it could set the whole process back.  If they decide to keep Sam I hope I'm wrong but I think this could a disaster.   If Sam is still on this team in September, I will be very disappointed.  You already have the media factions taking sides, next thing we have division in the locker room with all the vets who felt Sam didn't get a fair shake.  You really want a rookie quarterback that you have just taken at #2 walking into that situation?   We can always bring in  vet to compete with him and if he is not ready, then fine he can sit on the bench.  That is not the same as competing against previous "golden boy" that the team gave up 3 2nd round picks for just a few years earlier. 

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Yeah I suspect this is going to happen.

IMO Douglas has put a first round price on Darnold, if he doesn't get it, (he won't) Darnold will be on the team next season.

There won't be any real competition.  Darnold will be the opening day starter, as he should be.  4th year vet against a rookie.  At some point Zach will take over, and Sam will be gone to another team in 2022.  Unless he does real well and another team steps up and pays for him.  Could happen, next year's QB class looks weak at this point. 

Not crazy about the idea, think Douglas should just get what he can now, but Not a fan of just throwing a rookie out to the lions on opening day either.  Hasn't worked well in the past for the Jets.   Would rather have an older guy as transition QB.  

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3 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Isn’t Josh McCown a coach on the Texans? Kind of odd that he would make these comments. 
 

Also this ain’t 2003. The Jets aren’t drafting Wilson second overall to spend the entire season on the bench. Darnold may get a few starts, but the Jets will yank him as soon as they can. It’s not a great situation for them to be in.

 

It's the BEST situation for Robert Saleh. He gets TWO highly touted QB's that can fight things out in training camp. He gets TWO chances at finding a franchise QB.

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2 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Yeah I suspect this is going to happen.

IMO Douglas has put a first round price on Darnold, if he doesn't get it, (he won't) Darnold will be on the team next season.

There won't be any real competition.  Darnold will be the opening day starter, as he should be.  4th year vet against a rookie.  At some point Zach will take over, and Sam will be gone to another team in 2022.  Unless he does real well and another team steps up and pays for him.  Could happen, next year's QB class looks weak at this point. 

Not crazy about the idea, think Douglas should just get what he can now, but Not a fan of just throwing a rookie out to the lions on opening day either.  Hasn't worked well in the past for the Jets.   Would rather have an older guy as transition QB.  

I disagree.  Douglas is about forming the right culture and having Wilson and darnold there is the wrong way to do it.  It will divide the locker room and divide qb reps.  You never want a pouting qb there and darnold would be a distraction.  Once douglas decides to trade darnold he’ll get a package of picks, one this year and one next most likely.  

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I think most of the yahoos in this thread saying Sammy should be traded, are saying that because they're afraid Sammy will win an open QB competition.

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2 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

I think most of the yahoos in this thread saying Sammy should be traded, are saying that because they're afraid Sammy will win an open QB competition.

No Idea Idk GIF by SWR3

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Competition is always a good thing but it might depend on whether this will cause unnecessary drama especially for a new staff.  If a 3rd is the best offer out there for Sam, do you take it?  I don't think there are many QBs drafted in the top 5 that actually sat their first years.  Only ones that come to mind are Eli, who played the second half of the season behind Warner, and Rivers, who sat for more than a season until Brees got hurt.

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13 minutes ago, rayzor said:

Competition is always a good thing but it might depend on whether this will cause unnecessary drama especially for a new staff.  If a 3rd is the best offer out there for Sam, do you take it?  I don't think there are many QBs drafted in the top 5 that actually sat their first years.  Only ones that come to mind are Eli, who played the second half of the season behind Warner, and Rivers, who sat for more than a season until Brees got hurt.

Kind of a mixed bag, with mixed results.  Long article, worth a read.  Here's the resuts 

 

Sat and succeeded:7
Palmer, Manning, Rivers, Rodgers, Smith, Cutler, Goff

Sat and failed:11
Grossman, Losman, Campbell, Russell, Quinn, Freeman, Tebow,Locker, Ponder, Manziel, Lynch

Started and succeeded: 16
Roethlisberger, Ryan, Flacco, Newton, Dalton, Luck, Griffin, Wilson, Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, Winston, Mariota, Wentz, Prescott, Trubisky

Started and failed: 12
Leftwich, Boller, Young, Leinart, Stafford, Sanchez, Bradford, Gabbert, Tannehill, Weeden, Manuel, Smith

So, what did we learn? Grooming a young franchise quarterback is an art, nota science.

For a team to overcome high QB bustodds, it needs to know everything about itself and everything about thequarterback in question. That's whatthe Browns, Jets, Bills and Cardinalsneed to doin 2018.

It’s getting harder to be patient and sit a quarterback given the demands on coaches and offensesto produce quick turnarounds. In more cases, the so-called rushing quarterbacks into action is the only option.

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/nfl-rookie-quarterbacks-start-sit-darnold-rosen-mayfield-2018/1p20qhe6o5wwyzv8cgje8siyk

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3 hours ago, neckdemon said:

honestly if we draft wilson, keeping darnold makes a lot of sense, imo. just handing the starting gig to a one year wonder doesn't sound like the best idea. and i like wilson, even want the jets to draft him, but even mahomes wasn't just handed the job and he was behind alex smith, who is no world beater

The Mahomes thing was rare it was a team with a solid veteran QB and the team  was already good.. Also even though it worked out who’s to say if Mahomes starts at some point his rookie year that they don’t win it all?

In today’s day and age where you have to take advantage of a QB under rookie contract you have every incentive to start him right away and see what you have  

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  • slats changed the title to The Draft Wilson/Keep Darnold, too, Hypothesis Thread

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