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The Draft Wilson/Keep Darnold, too, Hypothesis Thread


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Would love to take on Teddy bridgewater as a backup/mentor from Carolina. But I am not sure that he is tradeable with his contract.  Nick Foles could also be a good option.

 

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If no serious offers for Sam, start him and let Wilson learn.   This has been done everywhere... mahomes, herbert, tua, mayfield, lamar.      

This idea has been kicked around a little bit but it seems to be getting more legs lately.  Some points being made in the linked video below... If the Jets keep Darnold and he departs after ne

IMO if we take Wilson it would be wise to move on from Sam. If the best offer we are getting is a late 3rd round pick then I'd try to do #23 + Sam for #19 (Washington) or #20 (Bears), value is about a

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Says who?  None of us have any idea how Brady took to his replacement, how he treated him, how much knowledge he decided to give to his understudy.  

Who cares what he had or didnt have to becoming an NFL QB.  Again, I was referring to the CS ability to work with multiple QBs.  Youre going off about NE and where he learned most.

You said SF developed Garropolo. 

What proof do you have that they did. 

Odds are he learned from the best TB12. 

The question is did he grasp any knowledge and can he can play anything remotely close to TB12 so far I haven't seen it. 

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3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

You said SF developed Garropolo. 

What proof do you have that they did. 

Odds are he learned from the best TB12. 

The question is did he grasp any knowledge and can he can play anything remotely close to TB12 so far I haven't seen it. 

Youre a pain

I said developed Garoppolo and a bunch of jags.  If you want to argue semantics and whatever other bit of minutia is causing an itch, go for it.

Odds are Brady ignored him, Brady didnt even want to give up reps in preseason games to Garoppolo.  Garoppolo got little playing time in NE.  Brady didnt like the idea of Garoppolo being around.  Brady wanted him gone.  You can imagine what you want about what he learned but that wasnt the point, it was that the backups learned while the starter with 3 years of experience got equal or more attention.

 

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

Youre a pain

I said developed Garoppolo and a bunch of jags.  If you want to argue semantics and whatever other bit of minutia is causing an itch, go for it.

Odds are Brady ignored him, Brady didnt even want to give up reps in preseason games to Garoppolo.  Garoppolo got little playing time in NE.  Brady didnt like the idea of Garoppolo being around.  Brady wanted him gone.  You can imagine what you want about what he learned but that wasnt the point, it was that the backups learned while the starter with 3 years of experience got equal or more attention.

 

You post I (others)  respond I thought this was how it worked here. 

Have a nice day. 

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5 hours ago, NamathToCaster said:

I think JD's  greatness is alittle over inflated and he is trying to be too cute with this QB situation.  We need to more on from the Darnold era.  Sincerely,  James Morgan.

Posters on JetNation were praising him as a God.... then he did nothing great in free agency and they were calling for his head.  It's Comical

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24 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Never forget that in 2018, after drafting Sam Darnold the Jets could have come back in Round 3 for Orlando Brown who went to Baltimore.  The Jets took DT Nathan Shepherd.... and then another DT the following year at #3 overall.  That's not how you support your investment in a young QB.

We're now at the point where it feels like for at least a couple of years in a row the Jets will finally be using at least one pick on the OLine in the first two days.  After Becton at #11 we're like to use the #23 or #34 on OLine this year.  JD is trying to make up for complete and utter negligence by the front office when it comes to the OLine and WR group.  It's amazing how long it takes for some lessons to be learned.  Even Sanchez stepped into a supportive situation and the Jets got success out of him by using not one, but two 1st round picks on OLine before he arrived.  Then the surround him with guys like Braylon Edwards, Santonio Holmes and LaDainian Tomlinson.

How the Jets royals ****ed this up is still mind boggling.  It's like they tried to buy a Ferrari in 2018 and then decided to go cheap on maintaining it and never do the oil changes.

We're now staring at a situation where we might roster two QBs taken in the Top 3 of the NFL Draft within 4 years of each other simply because we need to find the guy who can succeed most while running for his life.

Yet more than half this board is advocating taking an edge or corner at 23. 
I just think that’s insane. Sure we can use a corner - but, IMO,  the defense has to take a back seat for a couple of years while we develop our young QB.
not forever, but we need to give this kid every chance possible to develop into a FQB.   

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26 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

You post I (others)  respond I thought this was how it worked here. 

Have a nice day. 

You beat a dead horse to death 

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McCown said. "In my mind, if you can't get the value now for [Sam], that's absolutely how you go about it. I wouldn't even call it a competition. I would just say, 'We're going to go with Sam as the guy and bring Zach along.' If Sam knocks it out of the park, we'll re-evaluate where we are a year from now.

 

This ^^^  

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Every job on an NFL field should be earned.

If #2 is as good as people think, #2 will crush Sam and be starting sooner, not later.

Again, it's a debate between competition and earning an job vs. being anointed and not earning anything.

We tried it your way the last two times.  I'd like to try something different this time.

Normally I tend to agree with this.  But if you're old enough to remember Richard Todd vs. Matt Robinson, that got pretty messy.  And that was at a time when there was no internet and no 24/7 social media hype.  I think this particular situation could turn into a sideshow...

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Yet more than half this board is advocating taking an edge or corner at 23. 
I just think that’s insane. Sure we can use a corner - but, IMO,  the defense has to take a back seat for a couple of years while we develop our young QB.
not forever, but we need to give this kid every chance possible to develop into a FQB.   

Agree with this but it also depends on how the board falls at #23.  If the OLinemen we'd expect to be taken in the Top 23 (Sewell, Slater, Vera-Tucker, etc.) are all gone then I wouldn't complain if we went CB, especially if a worthy CB1 was sitting there.  The reason I'm okay with this is that there is a cluster of OT, OG, C prospects that pop up as being worthy picks in the 25-60 range.  We're really not looking for a LT thankfully.  We're looking to make upgrades to JAGs like Fant, Lewis, GVR, etc.  That can be accomplished with guys taken at 34 and 66 IMO.  It will be up to JD to navigate and figure out the who and where, something he seemed to do pretty well for a WR starved team last year that could have taken Denzel Mims at 48 but traded down and still got him later in Round 2.  Keep your eyes on a variety of guys like Teven Jenkins, Liam Eichenberg, Creed Humphrey, Wyatt Davis, Dillon Radunz and Spencer Brown.  Who knows.... if JD does decide to pull the trigger on a Darnold trade it could be to move from #34 back into the end of Round 1 to snag the guy he sees as the 4th or 5th best OLineman in this Draft.

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50 minutes ago, dcJet said:

McCown said. "In my mind, if you can't get the value now for [Sam], that's absolutely how you go about it. I wouldn't even call it a competition. I would just say, 'We're going to go with Sam as the guy and bring Zach along.' If Sam knocks it out of the park, we'll re-evaluate where we are a year from now.

 

This ^^^  

Yup.  Has any team ever complained after finding out they have not one, but two guys worthy of starting?

Let's see the Jets keep their options open.

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7 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Fans and media didnt cause issues when the Giants were playing Warner with Eli sitting on the bench.  

If Sam beats Wilson out in camp, he starts with Wilson on the bench.  Yes if Sam falters in a game the fans will scream for Wilson.   We're worrying about Sams feelings at this point?  Or are we more concerned with Wilsons development and maybe increasing Sams value at the same time.

how is that even remotely close? warmer was passing through in NY on his way out of STL and to ARI.

You live in la la land if i think the jets are going to spend the second pick to only have that pick beat out by the guy by all accounts they cant get a 2nd round pick for. it will make them look like idiots, and devalue Wilson.

what would you expect for them to do with Wilson if Darnold beats him out and plays all year? trade him for a second?

i will repeat what greg Cosell said on the rich eisen show...only way the jets pick a QB is if they think that QB is MUCH better then Darnold. and if thats the case, they will not keep Sam.

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How many more of these threads will there be?

If you’re using a third or even a second round pick maybe. But by selecting a QB with the #2 pick in the draft you’re making a statement. That statement says that this QB is our future.
Sam’s gone, deal with it.

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11 hours ago, Jdub03 said:

This is the scenario I am hoping for if a QB is drafted #2.  Let's make the Rookie earn the starting gig.  We would have two players with high potential at the most important position.  I'd be happy kicking the Sam decision down the road.  Now if we could package Sam and #34 for top a 10 pick it would probably change my mind. It will be interesting to see what value Sam truly has. At this point we simply don't know. We've heard everything from a late 1 to a 4.

We know.

Wasting camp snaps on Darnold is.. not wise. The rookie having to 'beat out' Darnold is like saying you need to beat a fat 600lb diabetic with one leg to the treadmill in the Gym. 

Worst QB in the NFL for 3 straight years...

Jet Fans: he has so much potential.. based on.. the same mistakes he made in college.. ya know if he just clean those up, he'd be one of the best! Has all the talent in the world!

 

Stop trying to convince yourself that JD is a secret genius for keeping Darnold on the team because you're afraid he might actually do it. 

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34 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

We know.

Wasting camp snaps on Darnold is.. not wise. The rookie having to 'beat out' Darnold is like saying you need to beat a fat 600lb diabetic with one leg to the treadmill in the Gym. 

Worst QB in the NFL for 3 straight years...

Jet Fans: he has so much potential.. based on.. the same mistakes he made in college.. ya know if he just clean those up, he'd be one of the best! Has all the talent in the world!

 

Stop trying to convince yourself that JD is a secret genius for keeping Darnold on the team because you're afraid he might actually do it. 

I don't need to convince myself of anything.  If you don't see the raw talent in Sam then that's on you.  This doesn't mean he will become a great QB, but he has the physical tools to become a top 10 QB. If JD and the coaching staff believe they can coach him up and fix his bad habits, then who am I to say otherwise.  There is no reason they cannot coexist and compete on the same team. If you're so sure the rookie will beat him out then there isn't anything to worry about, right?

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1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Agree with this but it also depends on how the board falls at #23.

No, it realy doesn't.  There will be a difference-making Offensive prospect available and appropriate for the #23 pick at the #23 pick.

We have to WANT to pick Defense over Offense for that to happen.  It will not in any way be a "well, shucks, we just had to" situation.

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7 minutes ago, Jdub03 said:

I don't need to convince myself of anything.  If you don't see the raw talent in Sam then that's on you.  This doesn't mean he will become a great QB, but he has the physical tools to become a top 10 QB. If JD and the coaching staff believe they can coach him up and fix his bad habits, then who am I to say otherwise.  There is no reason they cannot coexist and compete on the same team. If you're so sure the rookie will beat him out then there isn't anything to worry about, right?

tenor-2.gif.a4fe95f5d508a5f2ae5bcfe6b14d5246.gif

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1 hour ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

How many more of these threads will there be?

If you’re using a third or even a second round pick maybe. But by selecting a QB with the #2 pick in the draft you’re making a statement. That statement says that this QB is our future.
Sam’s gone, deal with it.

there will be a thread like this till sam is gone. thats why i hope hes gone by draft day.

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43 minutes ago, Jdub03 said:

I don't need to convince myself of anything.  If you don't see the raw talent in Sam then that's on you.  This doesn't mean he will become a great QB, but he has the physical tools to become a top 10 QB. If JD and the coaching staff believe they can coach him up and fix his bad habits, then who am I to say otherwise.  There is no reason they cannot coexist and compete on the same team. If you're so sure the rookie will beat him out then there isn't anything to worry about, right?

Who cares about his 'raw talent' and physical tools? Jamarcus Russel was one of the biggest 'raw talents' ever. It doesn't mean squat. 

You keep thinking Sam's gonna turn it around from being the worst QB in the NFL for 3 straight years. Geno will get his weaponz any day now too. 

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10 hours ago, Warfish said:

I will never understand the anti-competition, anoint-the-new-QB, why-should-he-have-to-actually-earn it mindset of some fans.

The most over-rated "drama" fans think destroys teams (but doesn't) is the so-called "QB Controversy".

Competition is the best way to get people to play their best, and to make sure the best player gets to play.

Anointing a guy as the #1 without him ever having taken a snap at the NFL level.....is stupid.

There is no distraction, there is no broken locker room or locker room divide, there is no problem.  Two young QB's, compete, best man wins and plays. 

As long as players see the competition was fair, and the best guy playing the best won, there is no distraction, there is no divide.  That divide is created only when the Org. puts it's finger on the scale, and gives the job to the lesser player.  

But no, we'd prefer to keep making the same mistakes we made with both Sanchez and Sam, just name them the Man, screw making them earn anything, surely that will work this time, right?

Fair.

I honestly can’t really think of any team that got destroyed by a QB controversy 

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3 hours ago, k-met57 said:

how is that even remotely close? warmer was passing through in NY on his way out of STL and to ARI.

You live in la la land if i think the jets are going to spend the second pick to only have that pick beat out by the guy by all accounts they cant get a 2nd round pick for. it will make them look like idiots, and devalue Wilson.

what would you expect for them to do with Wilson if Darnold beats him out and plays all year? trade him for a second?

i will repeat what greg Cosell said on the rich eisen show...only way the jets pick a QB is if they think that QB is MUCH better then Darnold. and if thats the case, they will not keep Sam.

Yeah, what I think, what people are talking about puts us in la la land.  

Warner was on his way out, just like Sam.  Its all about developing a new QB and if they want the option of not forcing him to start whether hes ready or not, youre in la la land if you think he'll be forced to line up and play.  Because your plan worked so well with the development of Sanchez, Geno and Sam.  

Why does Sam have to play all year?  Who says?  Just people who are opposed to starting the year with Sam?  Because Sam playing well will get the Jets a 1st for Sam in trade?  Yeah, that would put is in la la land.  The Jets cant do exactly what the Giants and the fins did with Fitz and throw in their rookie QB while their respective teams were in playoff contention?  

Nowhere did Greg Cosell say that if the Jets draft Wilson, if they think Wilson is the way their long term plan will go, did he say Sam has to be traded before camp.

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3 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

How many more of these threads will there be?

If you’re using a third or even a second round pick maybe. But by selecting a QB with the #2 pick in the draft you’re making a statement. That statement says that this QB is our future.
Sam’s gone, deal with it.

And if no one makes an offer?  Are you cutting him?  Deal with this, you might be better off keeping Sam and waiting for a team to become desperate in season for a QB and get a better offer.

 

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17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And if no one makes an offer?  Are you cutting him?  Deal with this, you might be better off keeping Sam and waiting for a team to become desperate in season for a QB and get a better offer.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

You argue with everyone any chance you get over nothing. 

Giddy yap. 

You start arguments with people and then whine that theyre arguing with you.  

You dont even get that you started this over absolutely nothing.  

If you dont like me complaining that youre arguing and beating that argument to death, put me on ignore for the 10th time.

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29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You start arguments with people and then whine that theyre arguing with you.  

You dont even get that you started this over absolutely nothing.  

If you dont like me complaining that youre arguing and beating that argument to death, put me on ignore for the 10th time.

No whine here dude 

This is a football message board sometimes we agree sometimes we disagree. 

WHO'S ARGUING? 

Relax 

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22 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What does this video have to do with not giving him away?

This video shows how bad he's been. 

Sometimes we all forget and it turns into a feel good story. 

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5 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

The Jets are taking a quarterback at #2, and  it's a true toss up between keeping Darnold for one more year and trading him before the season.

Joe Douglas is not trading Darnold for the sake of trading Darnold. If that was the case, he would have done so long ago. If the right deal comes along (ask for a first, settle for a second), he will take it. If not, Darnold goes into next season penciled in as the starter while the rookie is groomed.

You don't trade a cheap, young, high upside quarterback for peanuts because you are paranoid about a hypothetical quarterback controversy. That's what emotional fans want to do, not what a level headed GM does.

if the GM is smart sam is gone.

Wilson if drafted will be JDs man. HIS pick. why would he keep sam? all sam could do is beat out Wilson and make JD look like an idiot for drafting Wilson. 

if Wilson beats sam you got nothing, nada, zilch, zero..... thats a hell of a lot less then peanuts. a 3rd rd pick isnt peanuts. even a 4th rd pick is better then nothing.

so you rather get nothing if you dont get a 1st or 2n rd pick?

or are you one of those guys who are counting on another teams QB to have a season ending injury and they come to JD to trade with a 1st rd pick? thats alot to hope for. and hes a free agent at the end of the year so thats got to be a SB team to want to give up that much. i wonder what odds Vegas would put on this happening.

the only reason sam is still here is because JD wasnt sure yet about Wilson when the QBs were being moved. now only 2 teams Carolina and Denver are left and there waiting to see what QB if any drops to them. i expect sam to be gone on draft day. 

Wilson is drafted to be the starting QB. and he will start. maybe not game 1, but by game 4 he should be starting. and nobody is giving you better than a 3 or 4 midseason for a QB that sucked for 3 years and has 2 months to go before you can get him for money. he would have to look great for those 3 or 4 starts he has and thats highly unlikely. and then he leaves at the end of the year and you get nothing.

peanuts are better than nothing.

 

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11 minutes ago, doitny said:

if the GM is smart sam is gone.

Wilson if drafted will be JDs man. HIS pick. why would he keep sam? all sam could do is beat out Wilson and make JD look like an idiot for drafting Wilson. 

if Wilson beats sam you got nothing, nada, zilch, zero..... thats a hell of a lot less then peanuts. a 3rd rd pick isnt peanuts. even a 4th rd pick is better then nothing.

so you rather get nothing if you dont get a 1st or 2n rd pick?

or are you one of those guys who are counting on another teams QB to have a season ending injury and they come to JD to trade with a 1st rd pick? thats alot to hope for. and hes a free agent at the end of the year so thats got to be a SB team to want to give up that much. i wonder what odds Vegas would put on this happening.

the only reason sam is still here is because JD wasnt sure yet about Wilson when the QBs were being moved. now only 2 teams Carolina and Denver are left and there waiting to see what QB if any drops to them. i expect sam to be gone on draft day. 

Wilson is drafted to be the starting QB. and he will start. maybe not game 1, but by game 4 he should be starting. and nobody is giving you better than a 3 or 4 midseason for a QB that sucked for 3 years and has 2 months to go before you can get him for money. he would have to look great for those 3 or 4 starts he has and thats highly unlikely. and then he leaves at the end of the year and you get nothing.

peanuts are better than nothing.

 

Agreed. 

The upside in keeping Darnold is that he "figures it out", he carries us to the playoffs, we trade Wilson and I don't have to burn my Darnold Jersey. But that is a very unlikely scenario. 

It is far more likely, he plays just well in camp to create a QB controversy between him and Wilson which creates friction in the lockerroom/Organization between those that prefer Darnold and those that want Wilson. Remember, beating out Wilson shouldn't be too hard even if you think Darnold isn't great. He is still a vet with a decent amount of talent. That is a huge edge over a rookie. 

That is why you always see teams that draft rookies sign guys like Fitz/Tyrod/Mccoy. 

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41 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

This video shows how bad he's been. 

Sometimes we all forget and it turns into a feel good story. 

No ones forgotten by virtue of I want him replaced, its self explanatory 

Has nothing to do with hes still 23 year old and has talent that many think can still be unlocked.

I dont give him away because with not one to throw to, under duress and running Gases brain dead logic he threw too many picks

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33 minutes ago, doitny said:

if the GM is smart sam is gone.

Wilson if drafted will be JDs man. HIS pick. why would he keep sam? all sam could do is beat out Wilson and make JD look like an idiot for drafting Wilson. 

if Wilson beats sam you got nothing, nada, zilch, zero..... thats a hell of a lot less then peanuts. a 3rd rd pick isnt peanuts. even a 4th rd pick is better then nothing.

so you rather get nothing if you dont get a 1st or 2n rd pick?

or are you one of those guys who are counting on another teams QB to have a season ending injury and they come to JD to trade with a 1st rd pick? thats alot to hope for. and hes a free agent at the end of the year so thats got to be a SB team to want to give up that much. i wonder what odds Vegas would put on this happening.

the only reason sam is still here is because JD wasnt sure yet about Wilson when the QBs were being moved. now only 2 teams Carolina and Denver are left and there waiting to see what QB if any drops to them. i expect sam to be gone on draft day. 

Wilson is drafted to be the starting QB. and he will start. maybe not game 1, but by game 4 he should be starting. and nobody is giving you better than a 3 or 4 midseason for a QB that sucked for 3 years and has 2 months to go before you can get him for money. he would have to look great for those 3 or 4 starts he has and thats highly unlikely. and then he leaves at the end of the year and you get nothing.

peanuts are better than nothing.

 

You don't get "nothing." You get one year of a cheap, young quarterback with potential upside in a new system. He will likely start some games while the rookie is groomed. At worst, you get a backup quarterback with starting experience on a cheap contract.

Joe Douglas and many others around the league value Darnold higher than many of the fans on this forum.  Admittedly, Darnold had a poor season last year. In my opinion, that is not grounds for making a rash decision and trading him at his lowest value in his career thus far. A mid round pick doesn't move the needle for this team. Having a quarterback on a cheap contract who has shown flashes in the past and can be used strategically to ease a rookie into action is more valuable.

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