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Hmmmmm the Case For Darnold from a Wilson Lover!


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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I’m staying in major denial until it happens. 

Visit your local massage parlor and during the climax of your happy ending yell out I love you Deshaun :hump:

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This is probably the best analysis of Sam that I’ve seen.  His upside is still there.  Particularly mid-season, you could see him slip into his bad habits with lower body mechanics and occasionally la

Darnold is a bleeding animal who is in shark infested waters and the sharks are circling.   Unless the world is ready to see a redhead be cannibalized by packs of angry jet fans, this isn’t the

Hmmmmm I have been waiting for this video for a minute because this QB watcher loves Zach Wilson. Loves him!!! Indeed, he like many others has Wilson higher rated than Lawrence!     So I w

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3 hours ago, prime21 said:

The pressure of being and NFL starting QB is enormous. It’s double the pressure here in NY, maybe triple. Sam will not survive here if he falters in just one game.


Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

He survived 40+ games so far. He will survive 1 more season if he needs to. 

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My train of thought has been telling me all off season that the Jets should go all in with Sammy, but I've always wanted the Jets to still draft a QB. The Jets need to light a fire under Sammy's as$. No free rides. Let him prove he deserves to be the starter. With that said, not necessarily picking a QB at 2, but still someone to challenge Sammy.

I guess I could live with the Jets taking Wilson at 2, but I'd still like Sammy to remain with the Jets and give him an honest opportunity at winning the starting job? Now, if this done truly honestly? Don't be surprised if SAMMY wins the starting job. I'm not taking anything away from Zach Wilson but there's too many yahoos on this site that are so impressed with the bling bling new, shiny thing? I quite frankly think that's dumb.

Zach Wilson is no more of a SPECIAL QB candidate than Sammy was 3 years ago. The fact is, Sammy was just as good, if not a BETTER prospect than Zach Wilson.

I'd prefer the Jets to squeeze every bit of value out of the number 2 pick when trading down. That's why I've always suggested the Jets should pick a QB after say the 1st round. But if JD truly believes that Zach Wilson is the guy, he should take him. Put him in an honest, let the chips fall where they may, contest with Sammy. What's the harm in that? And honestly, I just don't think it's sound logic to limit your opportunities at discovering that ever elusive franchise QB? Worst case, you get a 3rd round compensatory pick when Sammy leaves in FA after this season....

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3 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

That is the most rediculous  comment I have seen. If JD trades back, gets 2 additional  first round picks, 2 additions 2nds and manages to draft Slater, Waddle, or Jenkins, you think people will be pissed for not drafting Wilson or Fields?

Nobody really wants to see Sam on the team anymore. I know I would prefer the Jets move on but if he is still on the team I am certainly not going to hate him and I will root for him to do well. 

I'm fine with JD trading down and getting a ton for #2 if possible. But in my opinion you still trade Darnold and then sign Mullens to start next year. You get an extra asset from a Darnold trade while also bringing in a competent QB who knows the system already and has had success. Having Darnold be the starting QB next year is a non starter and would shred any favorable view the fans had of JD.

You could end up with 2 1sts, 2 2nds and 3 3rds. 

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29 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

The Jets need to light a fire under Sammy's as$. No free rides. Let him prove he deserves to be the starter. With that said, not necessarily picking a QB at 2, but still someone to challenge Sammy

Keeping him next season is literally giving him a free ride. He already proved he doesn’t deserve to be the starter. Pls inform me how much more you need to see.

 

29 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

but there's too many yahoos on this site that are so impressed with the bling bling new, shiny thing? I quite frankly think that's dumb.

Actually I heard people who keep running back the same situation & expecting different results are the “yahoo’s” if you will. What you see as shiny, new & only desirable to fools, I see as legitimate talent, quick processor and clean mechanics. 

29 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

Zach Wilson is no more of a SPECIAL QB candidate than Sammy was 3 years ago. The fact is, Sammy was just as good, if not a BETTER prospect than Zach Wilson.

Lol..oh really? Darnold’s sophomore year was filled with fumbles & ugly interceptions. His footwork in the pocket was disgusting, he did everything 4 years ago that he is doing now. He has adjusted and fixed NOTHING about his game besides that slow & elongated release he had back in school. He was known for making something out of nothing and having nice pocket escapability. His pocket presence, release, processor & mechanics are not nearly as good as Wilson’s. 

 

29 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

What's the harm in that? And honestly, I just don't think it's sound logic to limit your opportunities at discovering that ever elusive franchise QB? Worst case, you get a 3rd round compensatory pick when Sammy leaves in FA after this season....

Because if you can get a 2nd round pick for him - you do it. You will also not be getting a 3rd round compensatory pick without him signing something over 14-15, I believe, is the number. What if he signs with Pittsburgh on a 1 year 5 million $ deal to back up or compete in 2022-2023? You, me, or Nostradamus have no idea if he gets enough in the open market to give us a 3rd round comp pick. Very doubtful.

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Tim Jenkins, the qb coach behind the Youtube channel 'All Things QB' that produced the Sam Darnold video also produced  'Is Zach Wilson a Franchise QB'.

Jenkins is essentially complimentary but he has said Wilson has to clean up his footwork.    He added that he was unsure that ZW is developed enough as a prospect to start day one. Whichever qb they start out with, there is some  issues ahead that need to be addressed.

Tim Jenkins along with JT O'Sullivan are both must see QB football channels on YouTube.

 

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3 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

Who is the trade partner that will give up a haul that jd wants? Maybe carolina. That's about it. 

The ship has sailed fellas

Nothing has sailed.  You don't know.  I don't know.

Lets see how the draft plays out.  We may draft Zach Wilson, we may not.  We may keep Sam Darnold.  We may not. 

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13 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Keeping him next season is literally giving him a free ride. He already proved he doesn’t deserve to be the starter. Pls inform me how much more you need to see.

 

Actually I heard people who keep running back the same situation & expecting different results are the “yahoo’s” if you will. What you see as shiny, new & only desirable to fools, I see as legitimate talent, quick processor and clean mechanics. 

Lol..oh really? Darnold’s sophomore year was filled with fumbles & ugly interceptions. His footwork in the pocket was disgusting, he did everything 4 years ago that he is doing now. He has adjusted and fixed NOTHING about his game besides that slow & elongated release he had back in school. He was known for making something out of nothing and having nice pocket escapability. His pocket presence, release, processor & mechanics are not nearly as good as Wilson’s. 

 

Because if you can get a 2nd round pick for him - you do it. You will also not be getting a 3rd round compensatory pick without him signing something over 14-15, I believe, is the number. What if he signs with Pittsburgh on a 1 year 5 million $ deal to back up or compete in 2022-2023? You, me, or Nostradamus have no idea if he gets enough in the open market to give us a 3rd round comp pick. Very doubtful.

Your response did NOTHING to persuade me, but I'm sure you probably figured that already. You're entitled to your opinion however misguided it is.....

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4 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

Your response did NOTHING to persuade me, but I'm sure you probably figured that already. You're entitled to your opinion however misguided it is.....

Ironic stuff actually. Thank you for the competitive rebuttal.

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18 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Keeping him next season is literally giving him a free ride. He already proved he doesn’t deserve to be the starter. Pls inform me how much more you need to see.

 

Actually I heard people who keep running back the same situation & expecting different results are the “yahoo’s” if you will. What you see as shiny, new & only desirable to fools, I see as legitimate talent, quick processor and clean mechanics. 

Lol..oh really? Darnold’s sophomore year was filled with fumbles & ugly interceptions. His footwork in the pocket was disgusting, he did everything 4 years ago that he is doing now. He has adjusted and fixed NOTHING about his game besides that slow & elongated release he had back in school. He was known for making something out of nothing and having nice pocket escapability. His pocket presence, release, processor & mechanics are not nearly as good as Wilson’s. 

 

Because if you can get a 2nd round pick for him - you do it. You will also not be getting a 3rd round compensatory pick without him signing something over 14-15, I believe, is the number. What if he signs with Pittsburgh on a 1 year 5 million $ deal to back up or compete in 2022-2023? You, me, or Nostradamus have no idea if he gets enough in the open market to give us a 3rd round comp pick. Very doubtful.

And hth do you know the Jets can get a 2nd rounder for Sammy? As I've said already and Greenbean stated on his podcast, NOTHING escapes 1 Jets Drive unless JD wants it to. In fact the latest that you hear from supposed insiders in the media is that the trade market has dried up for Sammy. That the Jets can't get anything more than a 3rd rounder for Sammy.... But honestly I don't believe any of these media talking heads.

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4 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Ironic stuff actually. Thank you for the competitive rebuttal.

I didn't need to waste my time.

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15 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

You're entitled to your opinion however misguided it is.....

Lol misguided, yes lets keep Sam and draft a QB with a day two or three pick as competition... That mid round rookie will be a good gauge as to whether or not Sam should be the guy after year four. Because if Sam could beat out that guy...

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This is probably the best analysis of Sam that I’ve seen.  His upside is still there.  Particularly mid-season, you could see him slip into his bad habits with lower body mechanics and occasionally lazy throws.  But the theory that he can’t read defenses is easily dispelled in this video.  That’s not his problem.  I’ve watched every throw of Darnold’s, and every throw of a NYJ QB over the last 40 years.  He is not a bust.  He was not the primary reason the Jets have sucked the last few years.
If we can get a haul for the 2nd pick, it is tempting to go that direction and actually build a complete team.  If we can’t get a haul, I’d be happy taking BPA which may be Wilson, and then having them compete in camp.
To the latter, the biggest issue there is not the locker room, it’s the fans.  Mid-season no one was talking about Wilson, yet now he is the new shiny toy.  Sometimes it takes patience to develop a player, and this system, with its quick reads could really unlock Darnold and would play to his strengths not his weaknesses.  But as many posters have said, I think the fans in NY are a real problem.  They don’t stick with guys through difficult times.  They make snappy judgments and the boo-birds begin.  That may ultimately be the reason they move Darnold, but it may also be the reason why three years from now, we are wondering who should replace Zach near the end of his rookie contract.  While Darnold is taking another team into the playoffs.  THat is same old Jets in a nutshell.
I’ll say it here again.  QB1 is not the biggest need we have in a few weeks.  Our needs are OL, WR, TE, Edge, and CB.  
Maybe... but sam is entering big money territory and has not proved he is worth it yet.

Wilson has undeniable potential and will be far cheaper to develop.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

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5 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

And hth do you know the Jets can get a 2nd rounder for Sammy? As I've said already and Greenbean stated on his podcast, NOTHING escapes 1 Jets Drive unless JD wants it to. In fact the latest that you hear from supposed insiders in the media is that the trade market has dried up for Sammy. That the Jets can't get anything more than a 3rd rounder for Sammy.... But honestly I don't believe any of these media talking heads.

I don’t know, same as you don’t know what kind of contract Sam will sign if he walks in 2022, but, I can pretty much guarantee you that the probability for a 2nd round pick far outweighs the chances of him signing a huge deal that sends a comp pick to us. If the market for Sam has truly dried up, what makes you think he will get that big of deal from another team? Why would another team throw enough money at the 38th ranked QB to warrant a comp pick. Honestly, I’d take that 3rd round pick for him right now and cut my losses before you can’t even get that.

6 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

I didn't need to waste my time.

Ahh yes, you don’t need to waste time & effort typing a post that actually has to challenge the thoughts of others. Instead, you’d rather hear yourself talk or something of that nature. 

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4 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Darnold is a bleeding animal who is in shark infested waters and the sharks are circling.
 

Unless the world is ready to see a redhead be cannibalized by packs of angry jet fans, this isn’t the move IMO

We may have no other choice than to keep him. It might not be the worst choice for what we are getting in return.

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3 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Maybe... but sam is entering big money territory and has not proved he is worth it yet.

Wilson has undeniable potential and will be far cheaper to develop.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Define big money?  

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4 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

This is probably the best analysis of Sam that I’ve seen.  His upside is still there.  Particularly mid-season, you could see him slip into his bad habits with lower body mechanics and occasionally lazy throws.  But the theory that he can’t read defenses is easily dispelled in this video.  That’s not his problem.  I’ve watched every throw of Darnold’s, and every throw of a NYJ QB over the last 40 years.  He is not a bust.  He was not the primary reason the Jets have sucked the last few years.

If we can get a haul for the 2nd pick, it is tempting to go that direction and actually build a complete team.  If we can’t get a haul, I’d be happy taking BPA which may be Wilson, and then having them compete in camp.

To the latter, the biggest issue there is not the locker room, it’s the fans.  Mid-season no one was talking about Wilson, yet now he is the new shiny toy.  Sometimes it takes patience to develop a player, and this system, with its quick reads could really unlock Darnold and would play to his strengths not his weaknesses.  But as many posters have said, I think the fans in NY are a real problem.  They don’t stick with guys through difficult times.  They make snappy judgments and the boo-birds begin.  That may ultimately be the reason they move Darnold, but it may also be the reason why three years from now, we are wondering who should replace Zach near the end of his rookie contract.  While Darnold is taking another team into the playoffs.  THat is same old Jets in a nutshell.

I’ll say it here again.  QB1 is not the biggest need we have in a few weeks.  Our needs are OL, WR, TE, Edge, and CB.  

Great post. Surround Darnold with some talent, and Darnold will be a top 10 QB. 

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6 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Lol misguided, yes lets keep Sam and draft a QB with a day two or three pick as competition... That mid round rookie will be a good gauge as to whether or not Sam should be the guy after year four. Because if Sam could beat out that guy...

So your point is the Jets can't possibly find a better solution at QB outside of round 1? That is a complete and utter fallacy. I don't need to point out all of the examples of great QB's picked after round 1....

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7 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Maybe... but sam is entering big money territory and has not proved he is worth it yet.

Wilson has undeniable potential and will be far cheaper to develop.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

They're are 16 yr old girls with broader shoulders than Wilson. No thanks, Dunnie.

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7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I don’t know, same as you don’t know what kind of contract Sam will sign if he walks in 2022, but, I can pretty much guarantee you that the probability for a 2nd round pick far outweighs the chances of him signing a huge deal that sends a comp pick to us. If the market for Sam has truly dried up, what makes you think he will get that big of deal from another team? Why would another team throw enough money at the 38th ranked QB to warrant a comp pick. Honestly, I’d take that 3rd round pick for him right now and cut my losses before you can’t even get that.

Ahh yes, you don’t need to waste time & effort typing a post that actually has to challenge the thoughts of others. Instead, you’d rather hear yourself talk or something of that nature. 

No. I just started my opinion nothing more, nothing less. Take it however you choose. Nothing personal in case you're feeling emotional about my response....

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8 minutes ago, genot said:

Great post. Surround Darnold with some talent, and Darnold will be a top 10 QB. 

Yup! It’s that easy. All his mechanical flaws, inability to read the field, inability to step into throws & his niche for finding the best triple coverage to throw into will go away with a few good draft picks to put around him.
 

Awesome! Bright fuuchtaaa ahead baby 

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44 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

Tim Jenkins, the qb coach behind the Youtube channel 'All Things QB' that produced the Sam Darnold video also produced  'Is Zach Wilson a Franchise QB'.

Jenkins is essentially complimentary but he has said Wilson has to clean up his footwork.    He added that he was unsure that ZW is developed enough as a prospect to start day one. Whichever qb they start out with, there is some  issues ahead that need to be addressed.

Tim Jenkins along with JT O'Sullivan are both must see QB football channels on YouTube.

 

WHich is true, but it's easier to clean up a guy's footwork than what's above his shoulders. 

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6 minutes ago, genot said:

Great post. Surround Darnold with some talent, and Darnold will be a top 10 QB. 

Is there a recent precedent for this, a 32nd rated QB after his third year as a starter who then becomes a top 10 QB? 

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Just now, NYJ1 said:

No. I just started my opinion nothing more, nothing less. Take it however you choose. Nothing personal in case you're feeling emotional about my response....

I’m not feeling emotional about your response though? It almost seems like you are, bud. It would be quite weird if I was truly angry about someone else having a different opinion of what our favorite football team should do with their horrendous QB bust. I was only responding to each point you made in your post & countering with my own opinion. You clearly felt slightly attacked.
 

S’all good bro. You read it wrong. Have a nice day. 

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Ship has sailed. Carolina will likely wait until the first 3 are gone before even considering a trade. Then they will be in touch with Cincinatti and Detroit to trade if the QB they want is there. The Jets should also be trying to package Sam and picks for 8. People want to roll with Sam and think someone should trade 3 ones and 2 twos for Wilson. Well if a team is willing to do that maybe it just tells you that you should select Wilson. If the Jets were trading back it would have happened already. Steve Young said the Jets are committed already to Zach. With the connections that is likely true. Kimberly Jones said that at his Pro Day JD was "beaming". And I noticed the huge goofy smiles they had as well. Wilson is the pick, we should be worried about how to build around him.

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I'm starting to warmup to the idea of keeping Sam Darnold even after drafting Zach Wilson at 2. There's no way the Jets should pass on Wilson, but keeping Darnold around for 1 more year isn't a terrible idea. I thought it would be bad to draft Wilson and keep the guy you drafted 3rd overall only a few years ago on the roster with him, but that's probably an outdated way of looking at things.

If the Jets can get a 3rd round pick for Darnold, I would trade him. If not, draft Wilson and keep Darnold. Let them battle it out and see if another team eventually is willing to budge and give up a decent draft pick for Sam. 

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8 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Yup! It’s that easy. All his mechanical flaws, inability to read the field, inability to step into throws & his niche for finding the best triple coverage to throw into will go away with a few good draft picks to put around him.
 

Awesome! Bright fuuchtaaa ahead baby 

Yes, it will. Junk receivers. No running game. Bad play calling. Bad pass protection. Believe it or not, those things affect a QB's ability to perform and put points on the board. If Darnold played with High School talent, some people would still blame Darnold for not elevating they're play.

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7 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

So your point is the Jets can't possibly find a better solution at QB outside of round 1? That is a complete and utter fallacy. I don't need to point out all of the examples of great QB's picked after round 1....

No, my point is that yours is misguided which is what you called whomevers opinion previously. All the examples....... Sure go for it, it doesn't happen as often as you'd like to believe. While it's possible a mid round pick at QB, particularly as a rookie, probably doesn't provide much competition for Sam which is your premise and if he does provide said competition well that still speaks to the fact that the Jets should move on from Sam. If starting QBs fell from trees in the mid rounds teams wouldn't trade so much to draft one high every year. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/nfl-draft-round-round-qb-study-1994-2016 https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1154515-10-best-late-round-qb-selections-in-nfl-draft-history

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1 hour ago, choon328 said:

I'm fine with JD trading down and getting a ton for #2 if possible. But in my opinion you still trade Darnold and then sign Mullens to start next year. You get an extra asset from a Darnold trade while also bringing in a competent QB who knows the system already and has had success. Having Darnold be the starting QB next year is a non starter and would shred any favorable view the fans had of JD.

You could end up with 2 1sts, 2 2nds and 3 3rds. 

If all you get for Darnold is a 3rd, you keep him. You can still bring in Mullens who sucks btw. 

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15 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

Is there a recent precedent for this, a 32nd rated QB after his third year as a starter who then becomes a top 10 QB? 

His play will take a huge step forward, if JD, completes the process of seriously improving his surrounding talent. Let's put it that way. 

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14 minutes ago, genot said:

Yes, it will. Junk receivers. No running game. Bad play calling. Bad pass protection. Believe it or not, those things affect a QB's ability to perform and put points on the board. If Darnold played with High School talent, some people would still blame Darnold for not elevating they're play.

Nah

4BC772CF-332D-40C1-9AA3-1BF4D8223488.jpeg

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24 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I’m not feeling emotional about your response though? It almost seems like you are, bud. It would be quite weird if I was truly angry about someone else having a different opinion of what our favorite football team should do with their horrendous QB bust. I was only responding to each point you made in your post & countering with my own opinion. You clearly felt slightly attacked.
 

S’all good bro. You read it wrong. Have a nice day. 

You also have a nice day. No disrespect here....

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3 minutes ago, genot said:

His play will take a huge step forward, if JD, completes the process of seriously improving his surrounding talent. Let's put it that way. 

I'm sure his play would take a huge step forward. It could hardly get any worse. 

My question was, is there a modern precedent for someone in Sam's position now, with three years worth of mediocre play, becoming a top ten guy as you claimed? 

Because even if Sam's ceiling is a game-managing QB in the middle of the pack Garoppollo/Carr/Cousins/Goff range, you need to find better, as teams such as the 49ers are figuring out. And they passed on Sam for the cost of a second rounder. 

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