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Interesting Jets/Niners Trade on Movin the Chains


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They were doing mock#2 last night. Jets flip picks with S.F for Jimmy G, Kinlaw, and pick #155, a 5th. Kirwin said he lets them battle it out in camp, and pick best man. If Sam wins, and has a good ye

No

So people don't want to take Zach Wilson because he may be injury prone, but want to trade the #2 pick for Jimmy Garoppolo.......who is injury prone. Makes sense.

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5 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I don’t even think the pick will be for sale at this point, but I’m soooo unbelievably tired of seeing hypothetical trades from the media that are basically “DA 49ers TRADE A TIN OF COLD CHICKEN PARM AND A MANHATTAN SPECIAL TO THE JETS SO THEY CAN GET ZACH WILSON” as if any GM with half a brain would ever accept some of these stupid offers.  49er fans themselves are even worse.  They’re so determined that they’re trading up for Zach and when they ask each other what should get it done it’s always “oh the Jets should feel honored that we MIGHT be willing to give them Jimmy G”

Old-school Niners fans are arrogant pricks in exactly the same way Pats fans are, and for the exact same reasons.

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12 hours ago, The Crusher said:

you do realize up to now Sam Darnold is a bust?

He is?  He's 23 years old, 2 years older than Wilson.  Just like you hope that Wilson would come in and develop into a franchise QB, so too still can Darnold, and Darnold has shown far more potential than Wilson ever has.

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2 minutes ago, JetsRay said:

He is?  He's 23 years old, 2 years older than Wilson.  Just like you hope that Wilson would come in and develop into a franchise QB, so too still can Darnold, and Darnold has shown far more potential than Wilson ever has.

 

Yes, so far he is. We can put a lot of that on the situation but I struggle putting it all on that. I don’t want Wilson, said that many times. 
 

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10 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

I'm genuinely not against sitting Wilson for a year and letting Darnold go out and die for the cause.

It will never happen, especially if fans are back in the stadiums but I always think a year to learn does a lot for a player. Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady - The three most accomplished players in football all sat year one. 

Depends on the QB and the reason why he sat. None of those 3 sat just for the sake of sitting him.

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8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I don’t even think the pick will be for sale at this point, but I’m soooo unbelievably tired of seeing hypothetical trades from the media that are basically “DA 49ers TRADE A TIN OF COLD CHICKEN PARM AND A MANHATTAN SPECIAL TO THE JETS SO THEY CAN GET ZACH WILSON” as if any GM with half a brain would ever accept some of these stupid offers.  49er fans themselves are even worse.  They’re so determined that they’re trading up for Zach and when they ask each other what should get it done it’s always “oh the Jets should feel honored that we MIGHT be willing to give them Jimmy G”

i feel the same way with some of the trades we propose for #23

they want to swap #6 or #8 for #23 and give them sam. who would do that? 

but ask them about trading down from #23 and they say.....oh thats a 1st rd pick at least. and then some

smh...give me a headache. this draft cant come fast enough

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if this mock was true. meaning SF really called JD for this. doesnt this make anyone think....what do they see thats so special? that maybe we should keep the pick.

looks like they think Wilson could be the next Joe Montana.

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7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

So, if Urban Meyer called the Jets and said he was open to moving down one spot in the draft, what would be an acceptable price to pay for that deal to lock up Lawrence? 

If I were a Jaguars fan?  I want #23 and a 3rd.  At least.  I’m not giving up a highly regarded franchise QB prospect for an extra 3rd and 5th round pick.

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22 hours ago, Happy Clouds said:

Just curious. Are you James Morgan’s agent? 😁

Just curious why you would say that ?  Where in my post did I mention Morgan's name.... Maybe you need reading glasses.

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15 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Depends on the QB and the reason why he sat. None of those 3 sat just for the sake of sitting him.

Does it though?

I mean it’s difficult enough to quantify the benefits of sitting without also factoring in why they’re sitting. 

Brady wouldn’t even have been expected to take over at any point. Rogers and Mahomes certainly would have been. Obviously it helps that their starters were significantly more accomplished than Darnold but again it’s tough to distinguish where the benefits lie. Is it from watching a seasoned pro or is it getting used to the tempo, the conditioning and lifestyle?  

With Wilson the obvious benefit would be having another year to surround him with talent, ensuring the situation is better than it is now. 

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1 minute ago, Irish Jet said:

With Wilson the obvious benefit would be having another year to surround him with talent, ensuring the situation is better than it is now. 

I would sit Wilson until he passes through puberty

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You can sign Mullens, draft Wilson, trade Darnold and let Wilson sit for half a season or more.

We've got two firsts this year and two firsts next year.

I'm not going to have a problem if they decide to trade down for a haul, but I don't think it's necessary. 

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15 hours ago, doitny said:

if this mock was true. meaning SF really called JD for this. doesnt this make anyone think....what do they see thats so special? that maybe we should keep the pick.

looks like they think Wilson could be the next Joe Montana.

Well Joe Cool was 6'2 200 pounds B)

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15 hours ago, doitny said:

if this mock was true. meaning SF really called JD for this. doesnt this make anyone think....what do they see thats so special? that maybe we should keep the pick.

looks like they think Wilson could be the next Joe Montana.

That's true but what if it's is to he believed that Kyle did not even ring the Jets about trying to get Wilson after trading up so far, what does that say about Zack?

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12 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Does it though?

I mean it’s difficult enough to quantify the benefits of sitting without also factoring in why they’re sitting. 

Brady wouldn’t even have been expected to take over at any point. Rogers and Mahomes certainly would have been. Obviously it helps that their starters were significantly more accomplished than Darnold but again it’s tough to distinguish where the benefits lie. Is it from watching a seasoned pro or is it getting used to the tempo, the conditioning and lifestyle?  

With Wilson the obvious benefit would be having another year to surround him with talent, ensuring the situation is better than it is now. 

Does it though? Yes it does.

Rodgers had his delivery totally reworked. Brady started out like 4th string, including behind a QB with a $100MM contract. Mahomes was not considered a day-one starter from before he got drafted, and was himself behind an above average starter. Day one he was just a worse QB than Smith. He also apparently looked like total garbage his rookie camp. That doesn’t therefore mean he couldn’t have played at all as a rookie, and may very well have started half that season if the Chiefs weren’t contenders with a good veteran QB.

Right out of their respective college programs, some guys are just more ready to go right away than others. Convenient as it may be, there’s no same rule for everyone regardless of where they’re at in their QB-development at that point. There are a variety of reasons why, and those reasons matter; they’re people, not software you can simply program or a pie you can bake. 

Some aren’t ready physically, and specifically may need their release and/or footwork reworked; it takes some time for that muscle memory to kick in (for some that never kicks in, like with Rivers who sat for 2 years & still had that stupid release. Some aren’t ready mentally where the pro game isn’t just so dramatically different than the offenses they played in back college, but some are just slower learners than others. Some need adjustments to both, and again some more than others. 

Darnold was never deemed to be such a project that he needed to sit for a year or two. He was totally expected to be a day one starter. He didn’t need to relearn how to throw a football, and while USC didn’t run a totally NFL-style offense - and he was typically in shotgun - it’s not like every dropback was a RPO either. His problem is in judgment and processing speed, and it’s something that some pick up early-on, others it takes years to not get easily fooled by defenders, and most guys just never get it (seeing how there are many busts, but few 1st round QBs didn’t have the raw phyical ability to be good QBs; they can all throw a football & they’re all comparatively athletic).

I know it’s a convenient story to say Darnold’s woes are 100% all the Jets’ fault, but he’s freaking sucked on his own. Three years and, even when he’s had time to throw and open receivers that we (and coaches, and opponents) can see on the all-22 afterwards, which despite the fairytales is easily most of his dropbacks, he’s still not computing what he’s seeing nearly fast enough. It’s not that he doesn’t understand how to run the play or fails to get it in a classroom & on the practice field.

There’s no evidence Darnold sitting for a year would have dramatially changed that or prevented him from stinking. A better cast around him would’ve made it easier, but in the end all the weaponz don’t make a bad QB into a good one. 

He’s not Mahomes — Mahomes is/was Mahomes. Nor is he Rodgers. Nor is he Brady. Unfortunately.

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

There’s no evidence Darnold sitting for a year would have dramatially changed that or prevented him from stinking.

The caveat here being that he had only played QB for one year in high school and for two seasons in college, so he probably should have sat for a year here.

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18 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The caveat here being that he had only played QB for one year in high school and for two seasons in college, so he probably should have sat for a year here.

Meh whatever. Cam Newton had 1 year starting in college and he had an MVP-type rookie season.

Excuses, excuses. 

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Does it though? Yes it does.

Rodgers had his delivery totally reworked. Brady started out like 4th string, including behind a QB with a $100MM contract. Mahomes was not considered a day-one starter from before he got drafted, and was himself behind an above average starter. Day one he was just a worse QB than Smith. He also apparently looked like total garbage his rookie camp. That doesn’t therefore mean he couldn’t have played at all as a rookie, and may very well have started half that season if the Chiefs weren’t contenders with a good veteran QB.

Right out of their respective college programs, some guys are just more ready to go right away than others. Convenient as it may be, there’s no same rule for everyone regardless of where they’re at in their QB-development at that point. There are a variety of reasons why, and those reasons matter; they’re people, not software you can simply program or a pie you can bake. 

Some aren’t ready physically, and specifically may need their release and/or footwork reworked; it takes some time for that muscle memory to kick in (for some that never kicks in, like with Rivers who sat for 2 years & still had that stupid release. Some aren’t ready mentally where the pro game isn’t just so dramatically different than the offenses they played in back college, but some are just slower learners than others. Some need adjustments to both, and again some more than others. 

Darnold was never deemed to be such a project that he needed to sit for a year or two. He was totally expected to be a day one starter. He didn’t need to relearn how to throw a football, and while USC didn’t run a totally NFL-style offense - and he was typically in shotgun - it’s not like every dropback was a RPO either. His problem is in judgment and processing speed, and it’s something that some pick up early-on, others it takes years to not get easily fooled by defenders, and most guys just never get it (seeing how there are many busts, but few 1st round QBs didn’t have the raw phyical ability to be good QBs; they can all throw a football & they’re all comparatively athletic).

I know it’s a convenient story to say Darnold’s woes are 100% all the Jets’ fault, but he’s freaking sucked on his own. Three years and, even when he’s had time to throw and open receivers that we (and coaches, and opponents) can see on the all-22 afterwards, which despite the fairytales is easily most of his dropbacks, he’s still not computing what he’s seeing nearly fast enough. It’s not that he doesn’t understand how to run the play or fails to get it in a classroom & on the practice field.

There’s no evidence Darnold sitting for a year would have dramatially changed that or prevented him from stinking. A better cast around him would’ve made it easier, but in the end all the weaponz don’t make a bad QB into a good one. 

He’s not Mahomes — Mahomes is/was Mahomes. Nor is he Rodgers. Nor is he Brady. Unfortunately.

Wait what?

I’m talking about potentially sitting Wilson for a year. I wasn’t talking about Darnold.

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Just now, Irish Jet said:

Wait what?

I’m talking about potentially sitting Wilson for a year. I wasn’t talking about Darnold.

Gotcha. Either way, though. 

It depends on the player. If they’re not reworking Wilson’s whole throwing motion, and unless he’s just not grasping concepts this summer, I don’t think it’s necessary.

I’m sympathetic to it when they’re really messing with his motion and he’s trying to make those things automatic. Throwing such a player onto the field in live action can make those improvements revert as he just gets back to his prior muscle memory in panic situations.

Those guys you mentioned had concrete reasons for sitting, and in all 3 cases they may have very well started as rookies if not for an above-average QB locked into starting on those teams.

Anyway there’s no rule that QBs must sit as rookies or else. I don’t subscribe to the “he was ruined” stuff for a QB who busted, literally unless a permanent injury caused it. 

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