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Do you really understand the Xs and Os of football?


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3 minutes ago, Bronx said:

No you didn't!

So do Nick Saban and Urban Meyer but college football is easier: get the boosters to pay players parents

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I played ten seasons in high school.

No, but neither did Mike Maccagnan, who got paid millions to evaluate talent and received an Executive of the Year trophy.

Yes.  I know all 4 plays.

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1 hour ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

What's the difference between a free safety and a strong safety? I

There are a whole of posters who don’t know the answer to this and have proven it in their posts

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A decent amount, when I was really interested in getting into coaching. I've forgotten a ton of it, but gimme a bit and I'll post a whole bunch of book recommendations for people who want to learn. 

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2 hours ago, Gibby said:

I actually do. I’ve coached it a number of years- not at the pro level obviously. I love it I study it. Just wish I could go way back in my life so I could’ve done for a living. I’m too old now, I’ve been in the Construction Management business for 25 years and absolutely hate it! 🤣

I'm 28,and have always wanted to get into coaching, but honestly, I feel like it's one of thirst fields where you already have to know a decent amount to get into it, THEN you're taught the more difficult stuff. I plaited for really terrible programs in HS and college, so I'm way behind. And didn't play QB or anything like that. 

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1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

People understand football. No one really understand football success, except maybe Bill Belichick. 

You spelled "cheating" wrong.

That, or you meant to say "Bill Walsh".

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Football isn't rocket science.  Neither is Baseball, or Basketball, or Hockey for that matter.
We who played in HS and/or college and/or coached may not know every current system-specific term, but I think it's safe to say most of us understand the game, and the concepts underpinning them.
Years of playing, years of watching, years of obsession (and we're all obsessed, or we wouldn't be wasting time of a fan forum ffs, lol), we're not Pros, we're very well informed Amateurs.
No, but it's gotten a lot more complicated, at HS and even youth levels let alone college and pros. Some HS in the 80s were still just numbering backs and gaps and running "32 dive" and "28 toss sweep" etc. Nobody's doing that anymore.
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I played HS football. My college didn't field a Football team so I played two seasons of Ice Hockey till injuries and college life took a toll.

I dabbled a bit in coaching(assistant) at the HS level but that was short lived . I have an understanding of a basic playbook, but NFL offenses/defenses are much more complex than anything I've been around. 

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For those who have coached, the clinics are amazing. Glazier, Nike, etc.

A bunch of high school coaches going from session to session, listening to college coaches break down their systems. Lots of demonstrations from vendors, including uniform and practice equipment stuff, headset systems, all kinds of stuff. Usually at least one or two really big names speaking. Friday and Saturday nights, coaches drinking at a hotel bar, drawing up X's and O's on cocktail napkins.

Seriously, of all the stuff you can get from coaching HS and prep school football, this is the crown jewel. These events are AMAZING.

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I understand more than i should concept-wise, which has led me to conclude that concepts do not win games. Guys winning one on one physical and mental (i.e. guessing - based on film work - right) is what wins games. Position coaches who can teach technique and dole out “reading” tips for the upcoming opponent are worth their weight in gold.

Show me a great team and I guarantee it has plenty of great players and assistant coaches who are great teachers.

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14 minutes ago, isired said:
3 hours ago, Warfish said:
Football isn't rocket science.  Neither is Baseball, or Basketball, or Hockey for that matter.
We who played in HS and/or college and/or coached may not know every current system-specific term, but I think it's safe to say most of us understand the game, and the concepts underpinning them.
Years of playing, years of watching, years of obsession (and we're all obsessed, or we wouldn't be wasting time of a fan forum ffs, lol), we're not Pros, we're very well informed Amateurs.

No, but it's gotten a lot more complicated, at HS and even youth levels let alone college and pros. Some HS in the 80s were still just numbering backs and gaps and running "32 dive" and "28 toss sweep" etc. Nobody's doing that anymore.

About a dozen years ago or so, I was coaching in an old rural area of northern Massachusetts, factory towns where the factories had all left. Still ran Double Wing, basic stuff. One school even ran Single Wing, which was interesting because it was right around the time the Wildcat was coming into fashion. And I always considered the Wildcat just an offshoot from the old Single Wing. The HC had run the system so long, it came back into fashion. I swear, it was football in a time warp.

My next HS/prep job was at a program that was running outside zone. Talk about a change! The talent in that prep program...incredible. Put kids into high-end DI programs, Big 10 schools. Those players were FAR more talented than I ever could have hoped to be.

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1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I understand more than i should concept-wise, which has led me to conclude that concepts do not win games. Guys winning one on one physical and mental (i.e. guessing - based on film work - right) is what wins games. Position coaches who can teach technique and dole out “reading” tips for the upcoming opponent are worth their weight in gold.

Show me a great team and I guarantee it has plenty of great players and assistant coaches who are great teachers.

There is also flexibility in system. Tailoring a system to the talent is incredibly important. If you are too dogmatic about your system and you do not change your scheme to match your talent, you aren't getting the most out of your players.

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1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I used to but the sh*t they talk about now is a different language.

I was at a session some years back where the OC from one of the Ivies was giving a rather complex talk about zone blocking schemes and identifying LBs, and all I could think was that it's great for college-aged linemen at an Ivy League program, but how many public high school offensive linemen are going to be able to grasp any of this?

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Only playd Pop Warner, but having a son who got as far as D2, learned a whole bunch more. Oddly also taught me sometimes coaches lose sight of simple things. Seen it happen a play works all game, total mismatch. A good coach keeps doing it, a less than good coach doesn't trust it enough to do that. Also, while scheme is important, it's not more important than simply having  players in good position to make a play. EVERY RECRUITING CAMP 8th grade to NCAA comes down to one on one drills. can you make a play against your man? 

Kind of why I found Herman Edwards infuriating; often seemed more interest in running his 3/4 Cover Who than having his players in places to make plays. Seemed like a nice man, but had not a clue how to run an NFL team. The clock? Forget it. Something Pop Warner coaches grasp on Day 1 or 2, was beyond his comprehension.  Bellichick and Parcells have both said roughly bad coaches merely call plays rather than run the game. Edwards is Exhibit #1A of that. Your playbook is wonderful, but if you don't have a play in the QB or D signal caller's ear right then and there, you are a a-hole . Recall that game with Quincy Carter game they blew to Rex Ryan's Ravens defense; people wandering around the sideline with no clue what they were gonns do next. May have been the key to Ryan getting this job. Ryan, different thing; like his dad only cared about his side of the ball. 

Can still find myself 7 beers in screaming at the TV, but Bit has a point that should stay with us all; an NFL QB has roughly 2.5 seconds to make a decision. Bad NFL QBs like Sam Darnold regularly do not have such an internal clock and run around like headless chickens. That ends up being panic. And that doesn't change. It's why Dan Marino is in the Hall of  Fame printing endorsement money and  until recently banging MILFs, and Ken O'Brien is in an office park in middle America somewhere with guys asking him if that's him  in the photo above his desk. 

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1 hour ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

I was at a session some years back where the OC from one of the Ivies was giving a rather complex talk about zone blocking schemes and identifying LBs, and all I could think was that it's great for college-aged linemen at an Ivy League program, but how many public high school offensive linemen are going to be able to grasp any of this?

If they're going to succeed at a high level, yes. Why Joe Thomas, Jon Ogden, Orlando Pace and Kevin Mawae have yellow jackets in their closets,why Oday Aboushi and Vlad Ducasse will retire with healthy investment portfolios,  and why Isaiah Wilson went from a 1st round draft pick to a bum on a barstool in 10 months. 

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About a dozen years ago or so, I was coaching in an old rural area of northern Massachusetts, factory towns where the factories had all left. Still ran Double Wing, basic stuff. One school even ran Single Wing, which was interesting because it was right around the time the Wildcat was coming into fashion. And I always considered the Wildcat just an offshoot from the old Single Wing. The HC had run the system so long, it came back into fashion. I swear, it was football in a time warp.
My next HS/prep job was at a program that was running outside zone. Talk about a change! The talent in that prep program...incredible. Put kids into high-end DI programs, Big 10 schools. Those players were FAR more talented than I ever could have hoped to be.
That's funny, my son's HS runs the single wing - they're generally undersized, and run their O in a very disciplined manner such that usually their backs are through the hole before the DL and LB have a read on where the ball is. The fact that every other team is running a modern, poster-board and wristband spread offense only helps them because the Ds their opposing are trained to defend the spread and aren't used to making a read vs 4 run possibilities every play. They throw about 4-5 passes a game, and most go for big gains.
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9 minutes ago, isired said:


 

That's funny, my son's HS runs the single wing - they're generally undersized, and run their O in a very disciplined manner such that usually their backs are through the hole before the DL and LB have a read on where the ball is. The fact that every other team is running a modern, poster-board and wristband spread offense only helps them because the Ds their opposing are trained to defend the spread and aren't used to making a read vs 4 run possibilities every play. They throw about 4-5 passes a game, and most go for big gains.

I have thought about that, too. Everyone copycats the spread, even at the HS level. If you're the only team in your conference running an old wing-style O, you're going to catch a bunch of defenses that have been spent all year defending the spread off guard. One school we played ran double wing with tight splits. All game long, ran tackle to tackle. Took the air out of the ball. Maybe once or twice a half, they ran play action to the TE for a big gain. Kept the ball, and won a lot by scoring maybe 14 points a game.

A friend of my brother's took over our old high school program, fairly late in the process. He asked some coaches he knew about what system he could implement for simplicity's sake that would make the most out of the program's talent. They steered him toward the veer, he implemented it, and won the first state title in the school's history that year.

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36 minutes ago, Bugg said:

If they're going to succeed at a high level, yes. Why Joe Thomas, Jon Ogden, Orlando Pace and Kevin Mawae have yellow jackets in their closets,why Oday Aboushi and Vlad Ducasse will retire with healthy investment portfolios,  and why Isaiah Wilson went from a 1st round draft pick to a bum on a barstool in 10 months. 

I think it's easier for players who end up at bigger college programs, where they spend all their time on football. It makes it easier for those guys who aren't necessarily the most intellectually gifted to pick up a more complex system.

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