The Stick with Darnold Thread

[Jet Nut]

27 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Most of the free agents JD signed are starters on the NY Jets on other teams well they were free agents. 

You mean like most FAs?

[Big_Slick]

33 minutes ago, Alka said:

I disagree with you.  Let me explain.  I am a very competitive person, and I hate losing.  But, if you put me in a situation where I feel that I have no chance to win, then I lose my emotional edge, and it appears that I don't care.  

I used to be a very competitive tennis player in high school.  I was #1 on my team for 2 years, and ranked 3rd in my county.  When I played someone who was in my league, whether they were better than me or equal to me, then that brought out the best in me.  If I lost, it would haunt me for years, and I would never get over it.

Although it rarely happened, I had to play someone a couple of times that I was unable to compete against, because that person was technically far superior to me, and while I hated to lose to those players, it appeared that I wasn't that upset, even though I was.

I think the same is true for Sam.  He's got garbage coaching, garbage wide receivers, garbage offensive line, garbage primary running back, who should have retired before last year in Gore.

How upset should he appear to be?  If he blames anyone but himself, it appears that he is not a leader and doesn't have the backs of his players.  

I don't blame Darnold; I blame the organization for putting him in this horrible situation.

In Sam's post game interviews he always accepted responsibility for every loss and bad plays. He never blamed his teammates even when the center was snapping the ball all over the place.

The narrative that's Sam's 'broken' is complete nonsense. If anything these past three years have proved just how tough he is.

[genot]

4 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Idk

Flacco: 6 TDs in 4 games, 6.3 adjusted yards/attempt, 5% sack rate, 2.2% interception percentage, 80.6 passer rating 

Darnold: 9 TDs in 12 games, 5.2 adjusted yards/attempt, 8.8% sack rate, 3.0 interception percentage, 72.7 passer rating

 

We lost all 4 games. Got shut out against Miami. He had game decent game. That was NE. If Flacco had played the first 6 or 7 games last year. He would have retired at halftime. The o-line was a complete shi.show.

[joewilly12]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Disgusted that JD only signed free agents who were free agents #SMDH

Explanation for the reading impaired. 

If they were really good players most would have been retained by their previous teams. 

Would most of them besides Davis and Lawson be starters on other teams in the NFL. 

@Jet Nut

[Big_Slick]

8 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Oh wow. You must be a riot at parties.

i will be rooting for the Jets, regardless of what crappy QB is taking snaps. Feel better? 

I'm glad you agree that Wilson will be a crappy QB.

[NYJ1]

32 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The logic has evolved this way:

1. The 2021 Jets are far too untalented to trade for Deshaun Watson. We must preserve every pick to sure up the roster.

2. The Jets must draft Zach Wilson, because he (and whomever they pick at 23) are going to be transformative talents who, I guess, can transcend the otherwise talentless 2021 Jets roster. 

3. Also, we cannot trade out of two for a boatload of picks because Zach Wilson (and whomever we pick at 23, I guess) represent exactly enough talent to elevate the otherwise talentless 2021 Jets roster. You cannot trade picks for an established QB, and you cannot, under any circumstances, trade a rookie QB for more picks. Like Goldilocks, you have to have just the right amount of draft picks. 

Fukcing awesome post Thomas Shane! Lol

[Mogglez]

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Explanation for the reading impaired. 

If they were really good players most would have been retained by their previous teams. 

Would most of them besides Davis and Lawson be starters on other teams in the NFL. 

@Jet Nut

This is such ridiculous logic I have no idea where to begin.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

Zach Wilson is only 2 years younger than Darnold and he has legitimate durability concerns, especially at the NFL level. I can see why there are those in the Jets building who are against betting (their careers) on Zach's shoulders shouldering the load of a 17 game season in the NFL.

 

[Peace Frog]

58 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

I also don't believe he has hatred for Zach Wilson. I think that's silly. He's just criticizing the idea that the Jets MUST take Zach Wilson,  nothing more. 

Whoa whoa whoa. 

I said nothing about “hatred”. That’s “hate speech”. 

I think he is just anti-Wilson hence his penchant for rolling it back with Sam. 
 

 

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Explanation for the reading impaired. 

If they were really good players most would have been retained by their previous teams. 

Would most of them besides Davis and Lawson be starters on other teams in the NFL. 

@Jet Nut

Don’t tag me, im sorry if it’s lost on you that most of the players we signed to start were FAs on other teams.  

Thanks for the clarification

[Charlie Brown]

12 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Jordan could be right, Brees was pretty bad until his 3rd year and then got way better.  But the vast majority of QBs that have 3 bad years have a bad 4th year. San is going into year 4 and by Total QBR he was 28th, 25th and 33rd in the NFL.. Remember we played the NFC East in his second season and had one of the easiest schedules in the NFL

So as Douglas you have to say is the odds of Sam becoming good, and the level of the team > Zach Wilson and 3 less draft picks.

Qbase has Zach at 70% to be a good QB, with like 30% to be top tier or elite. What odds would you give Sam of even being good? 25% Elite? Seems like close to Zero.

Seems an easy call to select Wilson.

Also, some people are saying "build the team first" Well the Jets still have 8 picks in next 2 drafts within the first three rounds and 3 first round picks. If we didn't even have the #2 pick we would be in good shape to build the team through the draft.

But what if Sam sucks again. Jets are screwed and not really in a much better place than if Zach sucks. Unless we want to retread a Mariota or something like that we likely need to trade up losing all those picks we got for Wilson anyway,

In my view, just playing the odds taking Wilson is as big of a no brainer as you can have in the NFL

I can't knock what you say here!

I am not pissed at any fan for wanting to move on!

What bothers me ---- was Adam Gase!  

When we hired Gase --- we still didn't know if Sams was any good ---we didn't -----

And yes 80% of us fans knew that Gase was going to find a way to ruin the  situation and it happened.  Darnold got worse and now we probably may have to move on and it is sickening!!

 

  

[Big_Slick]

42 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Can you name an example of a guy who was the literal worst QB in the league after 3 years of starting and then was good?

Can you give an example of a QB that excelled with the worst supporting roster in literally the history of the NFL and the worst HC and six years of the worst team management by Idzak and Macc?

[Peace Frog]

37 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The logic has evolved this way:

1. The 2021 do not want the stench of a possible serial sexual abuser to trade for Deshaun Watson. 
 

Fixed your post. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

Fixed your post. 

These arguments were made pre-Buzbee.

[Cp561]

1 hour ago, NYJ1 said:

That's another MYTH I'd like to address.....

Joe Douglas is NOT going to lose his job if he doesn't take Zach Wilson in this draft. That's ludicrous. If Joe Douglas continues to draft well he's not going anywhere. Joe Douglas can take a QB whenever and he'll be forever linked to that QB. The Jets ownership and fanbase has been searching high and low to find a decent GM. It's seems like right now we may have found one? So the idea that JD doesn't draft player X makes him Mike Macagnan is simply not true. 

No he won't be fired, but If he doesn't draft Wilson and he ends up succeeding elsewhere, that's definitely a strike on his record. Which will begin to warm his seat if the jets don't start showing marked improvement soon

[NYJ1]

50 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Can you name an example of a guy who was the literal worst QB in the league after 3 years of starting and then was good?

Well, Steve Young comes to mind? Rich Gannon perhaps? Alex Smith? Although I'm not sure how long he languished with the label of bust QB before he resurrected his career? Those are 3 that I think at least somewhat answer your question?

[kdels62]

10 minutes ago, genot said:

We lost all 4 games. Got shut out against Miami. He had game decent game. That was NE. If Flacco had played the first 6 or 7 games last year. He would have retired at halftime. The o-line was a complete shi.show.

Flacco played 2 games without Becton 

Sam played 1 

Flacco put up 0 points against the Dolphins 

Sam Darnold put up 3 points against the Dolphins 

Joe Flacco in 2 losses: 5 TDs, 467 yards

Sam Darnold in 2 wins:  3 TDs, 382 yards

[NYJ1]

1 minute ago, NYJ1 said:

Well, Steve Young comes to mind? Rich Gannon perhaps? Alex Smith? Although I'm not sure how long he languished with the label of bust QB before he resurrected his career? Those are 3 that I think at least somewhat answer your question?

Maybe Ryan Tannehill?

[slimjasi]

11 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

I'm glad you agree that Wilson will be a crappy QB.

I honestly have no idea what Wilson will be. What I do know, is that through 3 years of play, Sam has been bad. 

[Lurker89]

1 hour ago, Bronx said:

Adam Gase, McCoffee, yeah, this guy has been dealt a.crappy hand. I rather keep him, than giving him away. We can still get a future.3rd round comp pick if he walks away in 2022.

 

Bears are projected a 2022 7th rounder for Trubisky.

If Sam walks and signs a backup level contract we will not see a third.

We will get something between a 6th round pick and a no round pick.

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

Well, Steve Young comes to mind? Rich Gannon perhaps? Alex Smith? Although I'm not sure how long he languished with the label of bust QB before he resurrected his career? Those are 3 that I think at least somewhat answer your question?

Neither of those guys work as examples. 

Steve Young was only bad for two years in Tampa and Gannon was a journeyman for over 10 years before having 3 straight great seasons in Oakland as a seasoned veteran (2000-2002). So unless you want to wait until Sam is 35, that one doesn’t work either.

[HessStation]

I agree with Bart Scott

[NYJ1]

10 minutes ago, Cp561 said:

No he won't be fired, but If he doesn't draft Wilson and he ends up succeeding elsewhere, that's definitely a strike on his record. Which will begin to warm his seat if the jets don't start showing marked improvement soon

Well, Joe Douglas' seat is EQUALLY warm if he trades Sammy and Sammy goes on to become a great QB....

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Lurker89 said:

Bears are projected a 2022 7th rounder for Trubisky.

If Sam walks and signs a backup level contract we will not see a third.

We will get something between a 6th round pick and a no round pick.

This should be stickied somewhere on this board. I read 5-10 posts a day proliferating the “3rd round comp pick” nonsense. 

[NYJ1]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Neither of those guys work as examples. 

Steve Young was only bad for two years in Tampa and Gannon was a journeyman for over 10 years before having 3 straight great seasons in Oakland as a seasoned veteran (2000-2002). So unless you want to wait until Sam is 35, that one doesn’t work either.

Oh yeah... You're right. I'm wrong NO ONE can resurrect their career after 3 years. It Is the end all, be all of QB determining factors....

[genot]

5 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Flacco played 2 games without Becton 

Sam played 1 

Flacco put up 0 points against the Dolphins 

Sam Darnold put up 3 points against the Dolphins 

Joe Flacco in 2 losses: 5 TDs, 467 yards

Sam Darnold in 2 wins:  3 TDs, 382 yards

It's not enough of a sample size to prove a point. The only thing it could say though is that Darnold was a little gun shy. Flacco is a 13 yr vet with nothing to lose and he had a little more success with Perriman. I don't think Sam trusted him. Certainly not like he trusted Robby.

[kdels62]

7 minutes ago, genot said:

It's not enough of a sample size to prove a point. The only thing it could say though is that Darnold was a little gun shy. Flacco is a 13 yr vet with nothing to lose and he had a little more success with Perriman. I don't think Sam trusted him. Certainly not like he trusted Robby.

Robby Anderson had the best years of his career with Josh McCown and Teddy Bridgewater throwing to him.

[JohnnyLV]

20 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

I do believe that the circumstances surrounding the draft would make most people think the Jets are taking Zach Wilson at 2. Yes I do. But I don't believe that's necessarily guaranteed either. I'll freely admit I don't think the Jets are going to stick with Sammy. I just think they should and I'm not alone on that Island....

OK another serious question. As fans we exist in this Draft Wilson/Stick with Sam dichotomy. Like you said it's almost a lock the Jets pick Wilson especially after Steve Young's comments.

But what if the scenario was different? What if the Jets decided that they will move away from Sam but ALSO trade down and look to another QB?

Say the plan was to trade down and build around Mond?  Wouldn't necessarily be my first choice but I would get it. We'd have a new QB under a rookie contract and added lots of players and picks. And we could keep Sam and have legitimate competition.

If we had decided on Lance, or Fields or Jones OK I could see that and I could get behind it.

But the alternative to drafting Wilson being keeping Sam just doesnt make sense to me. From an odds standpoint it just seems less likely to work than believing Wilson will be elite.

[Irish Jet]

He’s been saying this even when we looked like getting #1. 

I see the logic in it but if we like Wilson as much as some say then we have to take him.

[NYJ1]

30 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Explanation for the reading impaired. 

If they were really good players most would have been retained by their previous teams. 

Would most of them besides Davis and Lawson be starters on other teams in the NFL. 

@Jet Nut

Probably not. But once again Joe Douglas didn't sign those players to be starters either. He signed them to become the Jets depth - 2nd and 3rd stringers. He's using his draft choices to acquire starting players.

[Irish Jet]

Just now, kdels62 said:

Robby Anderson had the best years of his career with Josh McCown and Teddy Bridgewater throwing to him.

Beat me to it.

Just more QB’s who outperformed Darnold.

[NYJ1]

3 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

OK another serious question. As fans we exist in this Draft Wilson/Stick with Sam dichotomy. Like you said it's almost a lock the Jets pick Wilson especially after Steve Young's comments.

But what if the scenario was different? What if the Jets decided that they will move away from Sam but ALSO trade down and look to another QB?

Say the plan was to trade down and build around Mond?  Wouldn't necessarily be my first choice but I would get it. We'd have a new QB under a rookie contract and added lots of players and picks. And we could keep Sam and have legitimate competition.

If we had decided on Lance, or Fields or Jones OK I could see that and I could get behind it.

But the alternative to drafting Wilson being keeping Sam just doesnt make sense to me. From an odds standpoint it just seems less likely to work than believing Wilson will be elite.

So what's your question then?

[UntouchableCrew]

I don't understand the durability concerns with Wilson being a reason to stick with Darnold.

The guy has never played more than 13 games in a league where you can't touch the QB.

[slimjasi]

13 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

Oh yeah... You're right. I'm wrong NO ONE can resurrect their career after 3 years. It Is the end all, be all of QB determining factors....

Not what I said and also not particularly relevant to the discussion at hand, unfortunately. 

It’s not that Sam “can’t” turn into a good NFL QB, it’s that he very likely won’t.  Historically speaking, it’s extremely uncommon for a guy to struggle as much as Sam has over 38 starts and then turn into an above average starter. The best example that I’m aware of is Jim Plunkett and that may as well have been a million years ago. 

[Larz]

We’ll always have Dick Hammer