The Stick with Darnold Thread

[genot]

11 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

It cracks you up because you aren’t following what I said very closely. I’m not asking for a guy who needs anger management. I’m asking for a bit of fire. Believe I used the word fire shortly after this post of mine you are quoting. There’s nothing wrong with a little fire or a little physical expression when frustrated. Rally everyone and fight. Lead them in battle.
 

Sam doesn’t do that. I recall watching Mic’d up when Darnold played the Colts. That last 2:00 drive, he sounded so unenthusiastic and dead.

You don't think a QB, who runs threw a 240 lb linebacker fires up the team?

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, genot said:

You don't think a QB, who runs threw a 240 lb linebacker fires up the team?

You don’t think throwing 9 touchdowns & 11 Interceptions in 13 games, constantly letting the team down & looking like a toddler who just got his toy car stolen fires them up?

[dcJet]

Sam is responsible for his situation.  He could have showed improvement from his rookie season.  As @TeddEYsaid, you can spot a good QB on a bad team.  Sam is a bad QB on a bad team with a bad coach.   All three need to be fixed.

 

[dcJet]

I think if no good trade offer, let Sam start the season.  Wilson can sit and learn.  

If he shows something, flip him for a draft pick before the trading deadline or sign him for backup money -  Trubisky 3M.

If he really shows something, we have a very nice problem -   like Brady and JimmyG.

[genot]

13 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

You don’t think throwing 9 touchdowns & 11 Interceptions in 13 games, constantly letting the team down & looking like a toddler who just got his toy car stolen fires them up?

Sam is well liked and well respected in that locker room. I promise you, if you referred to him as a toddler to one of his o-lineman, they would be a lot more than displeased. Sam could have thrown every one of them under the bus a hundred times. But never did. Could have thrown Gase under the bus a hundred times, but never did. You don't think Bart Scott is tuned in to the feelings of those players in that locker room. Think again.

[Mike135]

I hope Sam gets what he wants here.

If he's smart, and he wants out of this organization...  I really hope he gets that. Maybe even with some input on where he's traded to.

If Sam wants to stay:

1.  Get him a brain scan!

2.  I'd be happy to have him over that one-year-wonder-vs-ZERO-talent Wilson kid.

[Patriot Killa]

15 minutes ago, genot said:

Sam is well liked and well respected in that locker room. I promise you, if you referred to him as a toddler to one of his o-lineman, they would be a lot more than displeased. Sam could have thrown every one of them under the bus a hundred times. But never did. Could have thrown Gase under the bus a hundred times, but never did. You don't think Bart Scott is tuned in to the feelings of those players in that locker room. Think again.

So? Josh McCown was well liked in the locked room. Does that make him good? Does that make all the turnovers and disappointing moments go away? Let me ask you, you think guys aren’t thinking in their head how better off we’d be with a guy good enough to carry them? You don’t think they look at Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Pat Mahomes & wish they had someone like that? Sure they like Sam. They also understand what he’s done and if they don’t then they haven’t paid attention to why they suck.

[genot]

11 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

So? Josh McCown was well liked in the locked room. Does that make him good? Does that make all the turnovers and disappointing moments go away? Let me ask you, you think guys aren’t thinking in their head how better off we’d be with a guy good enough to carry them? You don’t think they look at Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Pat Mahomes & wish they had someone like that? Sure they like Sam. They also understand what he’s done and if they don’t then they haven’t paid attention to why they suck.

You we're talking about his demeanor. All my posts to you we're about that

[playtowinthegame]

Rich Cimini in his latest article was calling Zach Wilson the "chalk pick" for the Jets, and I'm crossing my fingers JD will choose common sense and trade back, because the Jets have way too many holes to pass up more draft capital now and later. Zach Wilson is too much of a crap shoot to pass up more premium picks, imho.

[Patriot Killa]

18 minutes ago, genot said:

You we're talking about his demeanor. All my posts to you we're about that

Yes his demeanor is the topic of conversation - but what are we talking about in the grand scheme of things? We’re talking about Sam Darnold’s demeanor when he does what? 

Plays badly.

People can like Darnold in the locker room as you mentioned they probably do & still not be fired up by him when it’s game time. Both of those things can be true and I think that’s what some people aren’t understanding here. 

When you play good then you don’t have to necessarily fire people up with your demeanor. When you play bad, you have to form some sort of momentum collectively as a unit to make up for your mistakes on the prior drive and swing the game back your way. 

Darnold does not take a punch to the gut & use that pain as fuel to burn a hole in his opponent. No vocal leadership, no killer instinct. Darnold takes a punch to the gut and drops to his knees in agony.

I’ve watched how real leaders orchestrate W’s off sheer will power, fire & strong communication, which in turn, fuels the entire franchise. I watch Damian Lillard on a night to night basis talking guys up in the last two minutes. they rally around him because they know when it comes down to it, he’s going after it and it feels like no one can stop it. He has the killer instinct to just go & take it. He doesn’t clam up in the moment of his mistakes, he doesn’t put his head down & think about all the awful things that can happen if he misses a critical shot, (AKA makes a bad interception in Darnold’s case) Darnold is so tentative, scared and passive... then when he does take chances they’re often the wrong chances to take.

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, dcJet said:

I think if no good trade offer, let Sam start the season.  Wilson can sit and learn. 

Learn from Sam Darnold?

What could possibly go wrong. 

[genot]

8 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Learn from Sam Darold?

What could possibly go wrong. 

Wilson would be learning from a QB coach. George Knapp. A QB coach that Darnold hasn't. had, since he's been here.

[oatmeal]

51 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Rich Cimini in his latest article was calling Zach Wilson the "chalk pick" for the Jets, and I'm crossing my fingers JD will choose common sense and trade back, because the Jets have way to many holes to pass up more draft capital now and later. Zach Wilson is too much of a crap shoot to pass up more premium picks, imho.

If I never hear the words: “haul” or “premium picks” again, I won’t be angry 

[playtowinthegame]

6 minutes ago, genot said:

Wilson would be learning from a QB coach. George Knapp. A QB coach that Darnold hasn't. had, since he's been here.

It's crazy that the Jets didn't have a quarterback coach for a guy they invested so much into. The closest thing Darnold had as a quarterback coach was Josh McCown. 

[Big_Slick]

3 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Indeed.  It’s just that what I came away with is in line with what all the objective metrics say, and what you came away with is not.

Well the 'objective' metrics failed to account for the situation Sam was placed in. It wouldn't have mattered who the Jets played at QB as they would have looked just as bad if not worse than Sam.

This argument has played out here many times. It's the Sam sucks just look at the stats crowd vs. the let's look at the entire situation crowd who understands that football is a team game.

Too many times. I'm tired of it. Like I said before we'll just have to wait to see who was right.

[Big_Slick]

3 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

he won't slip past the to 10 even if what you claim is true.

Sewell won't make it past Cincinnati or Miami. It would suck to play against this guy twice a year for the next ten years.

[Grandy]

I'd be more inclined to keep him if he ever showed the ability to consistently hit the deep ball. His accuracy downfield is painful at times.

This is also an issue that has been present at his best too. Even when he was the darling of CFB or the times where he was a top ranked PFF passer for a few games his field was still limited by inadequate deep accuracy.

It's one of the reasons why I think if we even manage to beat all odds and completely reinvent him by fixing almost every aspect of a QBs game, he'd still be limited in ceiling.

[genot]

51 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

It's crazy that the Jets didn't have a quarterback coach for a guy they invested so much into. The closest thing Darnold had as a quarterback coach was Josh McCown. 

You got that right. And a QB, that was 20 yrs old and had issues with his footwork.

[hokiejetfan92]

How can anyone still support Sam? I think a lot of people didn't watch this past season because it was soo bad and didn't see what Darnold didn't do. His highlights are a joke at this point.

For example, Lou Riddick's post about the epic throw Sam made to Berrios in a live football game. If you watched the entire game though Sam missed plenty of throws, constantly locked onto the same receiver. He was doo doo the entire game and then he makes some amazing pass on a broken play. That was when it clicked for me. He is a below average QB with below average pocket presence who at times makes an amazing play only the top 5 qb''s can make. It's not enough in the NFL.

Joe Flacco moved the ball better than Darnold this past year, with the same supporting cast. The numbers prove it. The Jets offense was more efficient with Flacco at QB.  Also, how can you bring up WIlson's durability concerns when we have been watching Sam miss 6 games a year every year. Is that not concerning?

[clayton163v]

6 hours ago, TeddEY said:

If you remove every Spencer Long bad snap, Sam Darnold was still bad.

It’s not like he was great except for those plays.

Were he, this would be a meaningful argument.

It was far more than the bad snaps.  It was the abysmal blocking.  Matador turnstile blocking.  Sam was running for his life as a rookie QB and getting regularly slammed.  Constant third and Long (pun intended).

And like so many of Sam's teammates, Long - just a few years removed from a giant contract - has retired.  Happened just the other day.

 

[K_O_Brien]

6 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

It was far more than the bad snaps.  It was the abysmal blocking.  Matador turnstile blocking.  Sam was running for his life as a rookie QB and getting regularly slammed.  Constant third and Long (pun intended).

And like so many of Sam's teammates, Long - just a few years removed from a giant contract - has retired.  Happened just the other day.

 

Justin Herbert in his rookie season, played behind the worst o-line in the League last season, and still threw 31 tds and 4.336 yards. 

[playtowinthegame]

1 minute ago, K_O_Brien said:

Justin Herbert in his rookie season, played behind the worst o-line in the League last season, and still threw 31 tds and 4.336 yards. 

Like Cleveland there are more offensive weapons in San Diego than the Jets have had since 2015. 

[clayton163v]

6 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

All 3 were the very worst or very close to it. Gannon and Smith certainly seem to fit that mold. You're trying to make a blanket statement about any QB after 3 years. That's 100% BS. It does NOT in any way validate your argument.

After his first three years everybody thought that Alex Smith was terrible.  It turned out that it was his team that was terrible.  Smith is a lot like Joe Barrow.  Poorly constructed for NFL violence but a low mistake pinpoint short passer.  Is Sam as good?  Who can tell?  I know one thing.  Despite the injuries, Sam is built for NFL violence.  A solid trunk with a thick chest and shoulders.  Last year's hit would have finished both Barrow and Smith.  Not for a few games.  For the season.  Lots of other guys too.

Its hard to believe it but Sam will not turn 24 until June.

[BornJetsFan1983]

On 4/3/2021 at 10:48 AM, playtowinthegame said:

Zach Wilson is only 2 years younger than Darnold and he has legitimate durability concerns, especially at the NFL level. I can see why there are those in the Jets building who are against betting (their careers) on Zach's shoulders shouldering the load of a 17 game season in the NFL.

 

Stick with Sam, it's a good take

[clayton163v]

5 hours ago, genot said:

You don't think a QB, who runs threw a 240 lb linebacker fires up the team?

It is fair to question many things about Sam.  But the man has balls imo

[clayton163v]

5 hours ago, genot said:

Sam is well liked and well respected in that locker room. I promise you, if you referred to him as a toddler to one of his o-lineman, they would be a lot more than displeased. Sam could have thrown every one of them under the bus a hundred times. But never did. Could have thrown Gase under the bus a hundred times, but never did. You don't think Bart Scott is tuned in to the feelings of those players in that locker room. Think again.

It is fair to question many things about Sam.  But he is a class act and a tough guy.  I sense zero whine or wienie in him.

[clayton163v]

2 hours ago, hokiejetfan92 said:

How can anyone still support Sam? I think a lot of people didn't watch this past season because it was soo bad and didn't see what Darnold didn't do. His highlights are a joke at this point.

For example, Lou Riddick's post about the epic throw Sam made to Berrios in a live football game. If you watched the entire game though Sam missed plenty of throws, constantly locked onto the same receiver. He was doo doo the entire game and then he makes some amazing pass on a broken play. That was when it clicked for me. He is a below average QB with below average pocket presence who at times makes an amazing play only the top 5 qb''s can make. It's not enough in the NFL.

Joe Flacco moved the ball better than Darnold this past year, with the same supporting cast. The numbers prove it. The Jets offense was more efficient with Flacco at QB.  Also, how can you bring up WIlson's durability concerns when we have been watching Sam miss 6 games a year every year. Is that not concerning?

I watched every snap of every game.  And Flacco lost all of his starts. 

[clayton163v]

22 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

Justin Herbert in his rookie season, played behind the worst o-line in the League last season, and still threw 31 tds and 4.336 yards. 

A fair statement. 

With respect, Herbert was throwing to Keenan Allen - a first round pick and consistent all-pro - and Mike Williams - the 7th pick in the draft.

His offensive line included Bulaga - first round pick, Dan Feeney - third round pick (now a Jet), and Tra Turner - second round pick. 

C'mon.  At least compare apples to apples.

 

 

 

[Biggs]

37 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

After his first three years everybody thought that Alex Smith was terrible.  It turned out that it was his team that was terrible.  Smith is a lot like Joe Barrow.  Poorly constructed for NFL violence but a low mistake pinpoint short passer.  Is Sam as good?  Who can tell?  I know one thing.  Despite the injuries, Sam is built for NFL violence.  A solid trunk with a thick chest and shoulders.  Last year's hit would have finished both Barrow and Smith.  Not for a few games.  For the season.  Lots of other guys too.

Its hard to believe it but Sam will not turn 24 until June.

Alex Smith turned out to be a mid tier NFL starting QB who Harbaugh and Reid unloaded because they didn't think they could win with him. 

[YankeeJet22]

1 hour ago, K_O_Brien said:

Justin Herbert in his rookie season, played behind the worst o-line in the League last season, and still threw 31 tds and 4.336 yards. 

I don't give a sh*t what he oline played behind in LA.  If he played for the Jets, with this Coaching staff, he would played like sh!t. 

[genot]

5 minutes ago, YankeeJet22 said:

I don't give a sh*t what he oline played behind in LA.  If he played for the Jets, with this Coaching staff, he would played like sh!t. 

This has been brought up a lot. In addition to what you said. Herbert had Hunter Henry, Mike Williams, and what could be the best route runner in football Keenan Allen. A little detail that is always left out. Like it doesn't matter.

[choon328]

 

[clayton163v]

5 minutes ago, choon328 said:

 

Ah, I see that the tribe of Zach Wilson has begun to make videos.  I wonder which poster it was?

[Icer]

You can sum it up by asking if they've watched any Jets football over the last 3 years

[Greensleeves]

17 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

Ah, I see that the tribe of Zach Wilson has begun to make videos.  I wonder which poster it was?

that's not what it is at all - I just listened to it. He even said Fields could still be in play because Douglas is so secretive. Also, and this is what many people think that have watched the film of Sam, he made a lot of mistakes in a clean pocket by missing open receivers - bad reads and bad throws. Too much of that on film to keep him. At least he is making an informed opinion after doing the work.