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If Your HC and OC Are Telling You They Can Fix Darnold, Then You...


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Point and laugh then draft a QB?

If Your HC and OC Are Telling You They Can Fix Darnold, Then You...   Realize that you hired a bunch of idiots. 

really? so you hire a highly touted head coach and OC and then you laugh in their face and go against their wishes on who they want at qb? that would be pretty dumb

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38 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

But what if a college QB who is not currently on the NFL’s radar emerges from nowhere to put up good stats against a weak schedule and Chris Simms likes him next year?

So then you, essentially, passed on Zach Wilson at 2 for the opportunity to potentially trade up and draft Zach Wilson next year.

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19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It occurs to me that Allen and Kyle Murray were also “came out of nowhere” guys, too. IIRC, Matt Miller had Murray as a third round pick that January

A lot of that was Murray not committing to a pro sport.

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17 minutes ago, C Mart said:

If Darnold is as bad as everyone here says he is then a trade up won’t be necessary. They’ll be picking top 3 again April 2022, right? 

And I’m pretty sure in saying this. No draft person had Wilson as a top 10 pick QB for 2021 prior to at least August? 

Just as no one had Burrows Aug 2019 as a top prospect. 

Hoping another Wilson or Burrow emerge is not a real strategy to depend upon. It's great if it happens, but there is no guarantee that it will. 

In 2019, if you didn't have Burrow as a top prospect, you liked Tua and Herbert. 

In 2020, if you didn't have Wilson as a top prospect, you liked Lawrence and Fields. 

If you didn't draft a quarterback in 2018, the landscape for 2019 was bleak. And while Murray emerged off a similar hot year to Burrow/Wilson, only Arizona were in a position to take advantage. The Giants and Redskins had to reach for Daniel Jones and Dwayne Haskins. 

The QB outlook for 2022 looks more 2019 than 2020 or 2021.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

 

Darnold is as seasoned as my mom’s portion of the thanksgiving meals. horrid & bland. 

Mom’s not gonna like this assessment. 

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6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Ok?  So how did Darnold use those final 4 games his rookie year to build momentum the subsequent 2 years?  Why are those games relevant in 2021?

1. There was a coaching change in 2019

2. We all know he came down with mono in 2019. Though he again finished strong 2019 (weak schedule or not)

3. He and every member of the Jets sans QW and Maye sucked in 2020. 

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4 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

Hoping another Wilson or Burrow emerge is not a real strategy to depend upon. It's great if it happens, but there is no guarantee that it will. 

In 2019, if you didn't have Burrow as a top prospect, you liked Tua and Herbert. 

In 2020, if you didn't have Wilson as a top prospect, you liked Lawrence and Fields. 

If you didn't draft a quarterback in 2018, the landscape for 2019 was bleak. And while Murray emerged off a similar hot year to Burrow/Wilson, only Arizona were in a position to take advantage. The Giants and Redskins had to reach for Daniel Jones and Dwayne Haskins. 

The QB outlook for 2022 looks more 2019 than 2020 or 2021.

 

 

Today. April 2021.

There will be a QB that comes out of nowhere that people will be fawning over a yr from now. Wilson & Jones weren’t viewed as top 10 picks 6 months ago. 

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Today. April 2021.
There will be a QB that comes out of nowhere that people will be fawning over a yr from now. Wilson & Jones weren’t viewed as top 10 picks 6 months ago. 
Probably but not definitively

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

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49 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Over your head. Like miles over... but it’s all good. I knew when typed it that wasn’t going to land with the Zach Manson clan. There’s nothing anyone could possibly say that would have you waver on posting what you just did. 

How about this? I am as anti Sam as I am pro Wilson. There is no possible justifcation for trotting Sam out there again other than wishful thinking.

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10 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I may be in the minority, but I loveeeeed Trey Lance.

I still do. I think the 49ers will take him. 

This is a great QB class. One of the best in recent memory. 

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2 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Today. April 2021.

There will be a QB that comes out of nowhere that people will be fawning over a yr from now. Wilson & Jones weren’t viewed as top 10 picks 6 months ago. 

Maybe, maybe not. No one knows right now. We know what is available in 2021. 'Bird in the hand' right. 

And 'a QB' (singular) is not ideal when there will be multiple teams needing one.  We don't want to be picking at 6 and reaching for the next Daniel Jones right? 

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27 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

So then you, essentially, passed on Zach Wilson at 2 for the opportunity to potentially trade up and draft Zach Wilson next year.

I passed on Zach Wilson to snap up two or three first round picks with the knowledge that there will likely be more Zach Wilsons next year.

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14 minutes ago, C Mart said:

1. There was a coaching change in 2019

2. We all know he came down with mono in 2019. Though he again finished strong 2019 (weak schedule or not)

3. He and every member of the Jets sans QW and Maye sucked in 2020. 

You can list off 2,000 excuses for Sam Darnold if you so choose.  It won't make him secretly a good QB.  Sometimes bad QB's are bad.  He was bad at USC and has been bad in the pros for 3 years.  It's over.  Done.

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Yes, and in the mean time you have added at least one big time player and maybe more when you trade down.  Your picks last year have another year under their belt your picks this years are hopefully good and you are turning the ball over to a guy with a 2nd year coaching staff with a plan and a LOT more talent.
So yes, if we could get a zach wilson like next year then that is better.
How many Aaron Roger's have there been since he came out ... just checking.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

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If the Jets coaching staff doesnt know what they are doing, it really doesnt matter who we draft as they will not be successful. They were put in charge, and if they have a strong feeling on this I will trust them. I think its best to move on from Darnold, but if the coaches feel strongly about this, I would not ojbect at all to trading back for a haul and getting a blue chip prospect in the process and then letting them role with Darnold and a Winston to compete

 

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

If you think Wilson has a lot of red flags, just wait until next year when the top QBs are discount Baker Mayfield and USCs next “great” thing.

Oh and, better yet, you’ll have to likely trade up for one of them too!

Next year doesn't change the fact that Wilson does have a ton of red flags and most likely a 75% chance of busting which would leave the Jets up the creek.

We'd have a third round pick for Sam and not enough ammo to trade up for next years shiny new toy at QB after wasting #2 OA on Wilson.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

You can sign a bridge QB to handle that job.  It doesn't have to be Darnold, and it shouldn't be.  Not when a 2nd or 3rd round pick is likely on the table in a Darnold trade.  

I don’t disagree but I also see the value of betting on Darnold and drafting his successor. You’re fostering a young, ultra-competitive QB room in an offense that should get the most out of both players. Give Sam an opportunity to prove how good he while Wilson develops, then trade him for two 2’s next year (franchise tag) as opposed to a 3 this year

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2 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

Next year doesn't change the fact that Wilson does have a ton of red flags and most likely a 75% chance of busting which would leave the Jets up the creek.

We'd have a third round pick for Sam and not enough ammo to trade up for next years shiny new toy at QB after wasting #2 OA on Wilson.

How did you calculate that 75 % chance?

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40 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

So then you, essentially, passed on Zach Wilson at 2 for the opportunity to potentially trade up and draft Zach Wilson next year.

Yes exactly what I’ve been saying. Its utter insanity.

“Don't draft Wilson at 2! Because you know we could the trade down picks we get by NOT drafting him...to draft someone else who MAY be as good as him next year! Yeah that’ll get em!”

Idiots !

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6 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don’t disagree but I also see the value of betting on Darnold and drafting his successor. You’re fostering a young, ultra-competitive QB room in an offense that should get the most out of both players. Give Sam an opportunity to prove how good he while Wilson develops, then trade him for two 2’s next year (franchise tag) as opposed to a 3 this year

No one is giving the Jets two high picks for Darnold even if he plays well.  Come on now. 

It's a terrible bet.  Give me the 2nd or 3rd rounder now rather than take the risk of getting nothing but a 2023 comp pick.

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The argument against trading back this year only to trade up next year is not logical to me.  IF they feel Darnold deserves a shot with a professional football coach and real NFL players around him, you have the opportunity to build the team for Saleh’s first year.  Imagine coming away with Pitts, Teven Jenkins, Greg Newsome, Elijah Moore, Quinn Meinerz, Tyson Campbell, Khalil Herbert, Emerson Smith AND three first round picks in 2022.  

In that case, yes, it’s worth trading down this year and up next year.  And let’s say they wind up 7-10 and pick around #14.  First of all, I would love to see my team be competitive again.  Second, #14 and 2 additional first rounders will get you your QB next year.  And let’s also say that Douglas gets an NFL caliber QB, not a superstar, to back up Darnold, lest he fail, it’s worth it.  Bridge water or Mullens would fit that bill.

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3 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don’t disagree but I also see the value of betting on Darnold and drafting his successor. You’re fostering a young, ultra-competitive QB room in an offense that should get the most out of both players. Give Sam an opportunity to prove how good he while Wilson develops, then trade him for two 2’s next year (franchise tag) as opposed to a 3 this year

I not only have liked this idea all offseason, but think that Sam has the maturity to handle such situation.

If the market really is that low for Sam, increase his trade value (if you truly believe he will improve) while the rookie learns.

It’s not like Sam can afford to tank. He needs his value as high as possible. Let him play with a chip on his shoulder. 

Jimmy Garropolo made his name by looking good in 3 games. Start Sam for Sept/Oct. if he plays well then you’re looking at a 1st for him by the deadline or after the season if they do some light 1 year extension.

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1 minute ago, Adoni Beast said:

I not only have liked this idea all offseason, but think that Sam has the maturity to handle such situation.

If the market really is that low for Sam, increase his trade value (if you truly believe he will improve) while the rookie learns.

It’s not like Sam can afford to tank. He needs his value as high as possible. Let him play with a chip on his shoulder. 

Jimmy Garropolo made his name by looking good in 3 games. Start Sam for Sept/Oct. if he plays well then you’re looking at a 1st for him by the deadline or after the season if they do some light 1 year extension.

 

There's no trade market to increase for Darnold next offseason.  

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1 hour ago, sourceworx said:

Ok and say the Jets are picking at 10 next year. Now you have to give up something similar to what San Francisco just did to get to #3 (or what we gave up to move up in 2018). Are you willing to do that? Wouldn't it be better to just take the QB now while the cost is significantly less?

In my opinion you take the QB now. You don't wait. Maccagnan held off on taking one in 2017, and look where it got us.

The difference here is you’re operating under the belief that Darnold is walking dead. They think there’s still a QB there after some spit and polish. Otherwise he’d be gone. Doesn’t matter you or I say about that, that’s their headspace 

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

There's no trade market to increase for Darnold next offseason.  

Of course there would be if Darnold improves.

Philly, Denver, Pittsburgh, Carolina, Houston (depending on Watson), Nola, Oakand (depending in how Carr does), Giants, Washington, Seahawks (depending on Russ), Bucs (if they want to get a jump on Brady successor), Atlanta are all teams that could be in the QB market next offseason.

If Sam suddenly looks good in this new offense after 4/5 games I bet his market jumps to a 1st.

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13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How did you calculate that 75 % chance?

Most QB's have a 50% bust rate and then I look at all of Wilson's red flags, do the math and the answer that spits out is 75%.

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2 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Of course there would be if Darnold improves.

Philly, Denver, Pittsburgh, Carolina, Houston (depending on Watson), Nola, Oakand (depending in how Carr does), Giants, Washington, Seahawks (depending on Russ), Bucs (if they want to get a jump on Brady successor), Atlanta are all teams that could be in the QB market next offseason.

If Sam suddenly looks good in this new offense after 4/5 games I bet his market jumps to a 1st.

You don’t draft wilson to showcase darnold.  You also don’t want a gm who can’t make a clear decision especially about a qb.  Pick a guy, eliminate controversy and build around that guy.  You hurt both qb’s development by keeping them around, having them split reps and not maxing out on resources to allocate to other positions.  Darnold’s trade value will not increase substantially with a month of decent games b/c the nfl will attribute the turnaround to good coaching, better wrs and OL and not having gase around.  Also the longer darnold lingers in the nfl the worse his trade value becomes, you need to trade him before there’s any more bad tape b/c then it won’t be gase’s fault anymore and you won’t get a day 2 pick for him.

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4 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Of course there would be if Darnold improves.

Philly, Denver, Pittsburgh, Carolina, Houston (depending on Watson), Nola, Oakand (depending in how Carr does), Giants, Washington, Seahawks (depending on Russ), Bucs (if they want to get a jump on Brady successor), Atlanta are all teams that could be in the QB market next offseason.

If Sam suddenly looks good in this new offense after 4/5 games I bet his market jumps to a 1st.

They would have to franchise him to do it, and that alone keeps his trade value limited.  Everyone would know the Jets HAVE to move him in that instance.  It would require a bidding war to pump up his price, and Darnold would really have to become a star to do that.  Not just a pretty good season would do it.

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4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I understand that - but that’s your fault for being so inflexible. Place your loyalty in the hands of the coaching staff over a player who’s not even Jet. Both are blank canvases. Why not side with your new staff? 

Because the staff doesn't spend their year scouting prospects.  Trust JD over the coaching staff.

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