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If Your HC and OC Are Telling You They Can Fix Darnold, Then You...


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Point and laugh then draft a QB?

If Your HC and OC Are Telling You They Can Fix Darnold, Then You...   Realize that you hired a bunch of idiots. 

really? so you hire a highly touted head coach and OC and then you laugh in their face and go against their wishes on who they want at qb? that would be pretty dumb

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What does Sam Darnold bring to the table that Nick Mullens doesn't?  Misguided hope and a distraction?

Nick Mullins seems like a better QB in all aspects of the game. 

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44 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

If the Jets coaching staff doesnt know what they are doing, it really doesnt matter who we draft as they will not be successful. They were put in charge, and if they have a strong feeling on this I will trust them. I think its best to move on from Darnold, but if the coaches feel strongly about this, I would not ojbect at all to trading back for a haul and getting a blue chip prospect in the process and then letting them role with Darnold and a Winston to compete

 

I think everyone should read this post. It’s a better/pointed way of stating what I’ve lobbied 

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24 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No one is giving the Jets two high picks for Darnold even if he plays well.  Come on now. 

It's a terrible bet.  Give me the 2nd or 3rd rounder now rather than take the risk of getting nothing but a 2023 comp pick.

SF got 2 second-round picks after they benched Alex Smith for Colin Kaepernick

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57 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I passed on Zach Wilson to snap up two or three first round picks with the knowledge that there will likely be more Zach Wilsons next year.

And guess who you’ll be trading those future first round picks away for.

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32 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Because the staff doesn't spend their year scouting prospects.  Trust JD over the coaching staff.

Sure but they’re largely aligned. JD would have traded Sam already if he didn’t think there was value in considering a Darnold-led push has merit. 

the grass isn’t always greener on the otherside - I don’t know why are guys are soooo anti-Darnold that even when the brass says they want to give him a sink or swim opportunity under the new watch - you treat it like treachery of highest order.

Fields and Wilson is a breath of fresh air - but if the Staff says “let’s try this first while we retool the roster, I think we can win with Sam” - well, D’alrighty then. Let’s see Rob and Mike can.
If they can make Sam work - holy sh*t, what can’t these guys do? 

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2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

And guess who you’ll be trading those future first round picks away for.

Exactly, you’re picking #2 and don’t know when you’ll be in that position again to pick a premier QB prospect without mortgaging the farm. You have to pick Wilson.

As to OP, the report is interesting but I have 2 following up points:

1. You have to believe the report

2. Even if you believe the report, you DON’T KNOW the context. For example, the conversation could have been “Hey JD, I think we can fix darnold if you want to use the #2 to trade down or pick another position” or “Hey JD, we like Sam and think he’s redeemable but would be perfectly fine if you pick a qb for a competition.” OP is assuming the conversation was “Hey JD, keep sam or else we mutiny”.

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

But what if they don’t have to?

That question is the reason Sam is still on the roster - whether fans approve or not

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5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

But what if they don’t have to?

Say you take a deal with Carolina.  What do you think the chances are that everything breaks “right” and we or Carolina suck enough again for a top 2 pick.  Answer this honestly, not with a “LOL the Jets always suck though” mentality, because we have sucked plenty and very rarely end up with a pick this high.

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2 hours ago, Savage69 said:

He worked 15 years with Ozzie Newsome he's more then a cap space GM..

And he’s gotten a team 9 wins in 2 season.

Some of JD greatest hits...

Perrine

Morgan

Davis

Zuniga 

Perriman

A washed up center

Still no kicker

Flacco

I could go on

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5 minutes ago, Paradis said:

That question is the reason Sam is still on the roster - whether fans approve or not

The only reason Sam is still on the roster is because JD hasn’t gotten his asking price. He will eventually take whatever he can get but for now there’s no harm in holding out.  
 

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Yes, and in the mean time you have added at least one big time player and maybe more when you trade down.  Your picks last year have another year under their belt your picks this years are hopefully good and you are turning the ball over to a guy with a 2nd year coaching staff with a plan and a LOT more talent.

So yes, if we could get a zach wilson like next year then that is better.

We already have Zach Wilson on our roster him and Sam will be the exact same QB in this system.

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16 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Say you take a deal with Carolina.  What do you think the chances are that everything breaks “right” and we or Carolina suck enough again for a top 2 pick.  Answer this honestly, not with a “LOL the Jets always suck though” mentality, because we have sucked plenty and very rarely end up with a pick this high.

For everything to break right in this scenario Sam plays awesome the rest is moot.

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2 hours ago, Paradis said:

If you asked me what I would prefer - the answer from any Jets fans should be Darnold doing a 180.

Anyone who answers differently needs a slap and to take the dog for a walk. ...Preferring doesn’t mean you have to believe it’s “likely”...(it can seem nearly impossible) but if one had a preference - it should be that Jets don’t need a redo and can immediately invest all assets into skill players and trench men. I hope like my pink crocs thread advocated, that we can embrace whatever outcome befalls us and give Rob/Mike some benefit of the doubt...

In other words if the coaching staff say - we got this, then ok. I’m willing to be optimistic. Maybe some of you should bury your dead and give it a shot too. 

Yes. 

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34 minutes ago, Paradis said:

JD would have traded Sam already if he didn’t think there was value in considering a Darnold-led push has merit. 

Maybe, maybe not. They may get a better price as a qb needy team see's other possibilities dry up and gets desperate as reality strikes.

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8 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

We already have Zach Wilson on our roster him and Sam will be the exact same QB in this system.

No one told the 49ers. They run the same system as us, but when they had the option of:

A. Giving up 3 1sts and 1 3rd for a QB ranked below Wilson.

B. Giving up a 2nd for Darnold. 

....they choose A. They obviously don't share your belief that Wilson and Sam are the same QB in the system. 

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1 hour ago, Paradis said:

I understand that - but that’s your fault for being so inflexible.

Place your loyalty in the hands of the coaching staff over a player who’s not even Jet. Both are blank canvases. Why not side with your new staff? 

I do not believe Saleh really prefers Sam. I saw the smiles at the Pro Day. Wilson is their guy. I am truly mystified where this Sam can be good narrative comes from. It is purely on his original evaluation. If Sam was in year 2 or 3 maybe there would be a different argument but he has essentially been the worst QB in the NFL 3 years in a row. He's had a raw deal but really he is the same guy he was at Day 1. Makes some unreal throws off schedule, cannot throw deep, and has no accuracy. 

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29 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

And he’s gotten a team 9 wins in 2 season.

Some of JD greatest hits...

Perrine

Morgan

Davis

Zuniga 

Perriman

A washed up center

Still no kicker

Flacco

I could go on

Kinda short sighted to list half of his first draft after only their first year, no?

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4 hours ago, neckdemon said:

really? so you hire a highly touted head coach and OC and then you laugh in their face and go against their wishes on who they want at qb? that would be pretty dumb

Yes, if you make the wrong hire, pick the wrong QB, etc, etc, you need to move on. Waiting for it to 'get fixed' is how you end up with Mac for 5 years while the same people on here who cheered on his opportunity to rebuild his rebuild and think a rebuild takes 6 years will continue to preach they just need more time while the league longest active playoffless streak continues. 

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1 hour ago, Big_Slick said:

Most QB's have a 50% bust rate and then I look at all of Wilson's red flags, do the math and the answer that spits out is 75%.

Wilson has NO "red" flags at all. He has a physical to go through to make sure the shoulder is fine, but his labrum was super minor and no one expects it to be an issue. Brees played 15 years on a significantly one with a major shoulder separation.

There is a yellow flag for level of competition but there has been shown to be really no correlation between small school QBs failing or big school QBs having more success. In fact, being on a great team and having great receivers is also a yellow flag.

That's it. He has the best arm talent of anyone in the NFL. He is smart, young and has great work ethic QBase basically put his bust potential at 30% and the same as Lawrence and it has been superb in predicting busts. So yeah his bust potential is like 30% not 75%. 

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38 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

We already have Zach Wilson on our roster him and Sam will be the exact same QB in this system.

Why? If we going off drafting evaluations Wilson is significantly better

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4 hours ago, BettyBoop said:

If Costello’s reports are true then Douglas is in quite the quandary.  Apparently Saleh and LeFleur like Darnold and think he is fixable and can thrive in their system.  If they are right, the timeline for making this team competitive just sped up a year or two.  With the haul you can get for the #2 pick, you can address IOL (x2), CB (x2), Edge, WR, RB, LB and TE. In the next two seasons.  That is not to suggest that every pick will be a hit, but the likelihood that the team would improve with all those selections increases dramatically.

So what do you do if you’re Douglas?  Will this cause a rift between coach and GM?  The good news is the Johnsons will have no say in this.

Bet they are on same page

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I didn’t read all of the hoopla that is definitely in here but I’m pretty sure Adam Gase thinks he can fix Darnold. Schotty probably thinks so too. Coaches think a lot of things.

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31 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

No one told the 49ers. They run the same system as us, but when they had the option of:

A. Giving up 3 1sts and 1 3rd for a QB ranked below Wilson.

B. Giving up a 2nd for Darnold. 

....they choose A. They obviously don't share your belief that Wilson and Sam are the same QB in the system. 

Oh my bad I didn’t see the 49ers come out with their public opinion about their decisions they made.

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8 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Why? If we going off drafting evaluations Wilson is significantly better

You keep going off other draft evaluations I’ll keep doing my own.

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4 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Oh my bad I didn’t see the 49ers come out with their public opinion about their decisions they made.

They didn't have to. Actions speak louder than words. 

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3 hours ago, C Mart said:

Such a misleading narrative. 

In 1 game on MNF so everyone assumes he was lights out the other 3 games he started.  
 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/11252/joe-flacco

overall 55% completion for 2020. 50% the 3 other games. Stellar. 0-4. 

6 tds in 4 games started and 3 turnovers, compared to 9 tds and 11 int in 12 games with the same supporting cast. Nobody said Flacco was great, just better. 

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

Say you take a deal with Carolina.  What do you think the chances are that everything breaks “right” and we or Carolina suck enough again for a top 2 pick.  Answer this honestly, not with a “LOL the Jets always suck though” mentality, because we have sucked plenty and very rarely end up with a pick this high.

So, in this scenario, you get the 8 pick, plus another two(?) firsts. You draft Slater, or one of the receivers at 8. The season goes one of two ways:

1. Darnold becomes decent+ under LaFleur and the Jets go 8-8, 9-7.

2. Darnold continues to suck, and the Jets go 4-12, 5-11 and they get the 6 pick next year, along with two other firsts. 
 

Win win either way. 

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

The only reason Sam is still on the roster is because JD hasn’t gotten his asking price. He will eventually take whatever he can get but for now there’s no harm in holding out.  
 

If you keep saying it, maybe it'll be true. Or maybe he likes Sam just as much, or maybe even more than your Golden child.

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