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If Your HC and OC Are Telling You They Can Fix Darnold, Then You...


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51 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

First of all. Wilson is flat out a better prospect than Sam. Faster release, better arm, better accuracy better decision making. Second the tape (which I actually think for Fields is not all that great) is only about half of the player evaluation. Wilson is crushing Fields in these areas. There is a reason he is dropping.

Yeah that’s your take and stuff.  Continue to believe all the smoke screens being put out there right now.

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Point and laugh then draft a QB?

If Your HC and OC Are Telling You They Can Fix Darnold, Then You...   Realize that you hired a bunch of idiots. 

really? so you hire a highly touted head coach and OC and then you laugh in their face and go against their wishes on who they want at qb? that would be pretty dumb

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Just now, Paradis said:

I know many of you are over Sam, and I understand.  I too love the idea of new hope... but I also want Sam to work out bad enough to buy into what the Jets are selling if they tell me they’re gonna try and fix Sam. I want that dream. We owe him one. 

Many of us want Sam Darnold to be good make us forget the last 3 years. 

But as a NY Jets fan wanting a winning season and good QB play we have doubts. 

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1 minute ago, Paradis said:

I know many of you are over Sam, and I understand.  I too love the idea of new hope... but I also want Sam to work out bad enough to buy into what the Jets are selling if they tell me they’re gonna try and fix Sam. I want that dream. We owe him one. 

To me it’s Sam or Fields shouldn’t be another option.

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6 hours ago, QB1 said:

Saleh was jumping around like a school girl during Wilson’s pro day, Sam is done.

That's because he and JD were thinking about all the draft picks they will get in a trade down after Wilson looked good running around in shorts and playing catch with his friends.

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5 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I know many of you are over Sam, and I understand.  I too love the idea of new hope... but I also want Sam to work out bad enough to buy into what the Jets are selling if they tell me they’re gonna try and fix Sam. I want that dream. We owe him one. 

You can't fix the fact that Sam has a low football IQ like his mentor Mark Sanchez.

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49 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

So when they analyze the 49ers trade, even with given up 2 additional firsts and a 3rd SF wins that trade almost all the time. Because not only do they get a QB but they get 3 or 4 established players which is equal or slightly better than the picks they gave away.

This all hinges on the QB becoming an elite player within the first two years and for that elite QB play to be a draw for free agents coming in on short money before the elite young QB gets paid. In the case of keeping Sam vs drafting Wilson, it equates to zero additional salary slots because Darnold would have to be good in 2021 to earn an extension ~or~ you’re drafting a rookie QB next year anyway. I know you’re high on Wilson as a prospect, but it seems like there are enough question marks about him to keep the choice between him Wilson or Darnold alive inside the Jets organization. Personally, if we are to have confidence in the coaching staff, and we think they are any good, they should get the deciding vote, particularly if their concerns with Wilson are in regards to his personality and ability to be part of the culture they want to build. I wouldn’t want to have risked my professional life on taking the Jets job and have the first major development of my head coaching career be the GM forcing a QB I’m not comfortable with down my throat, especially if there’s a viable alternative already on the roster. Thanks to Maccagnan, there are no major contracts coming up for the Jets until Quinnen Williams is due for a deal. The Jets shouldn’t let the differential between Wilson’s deal and Darnold’s extension factor into their decision-making. It’s penny wise and pound foolish. 

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19 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I know many of you are over Sam, and I understand.  I too love the idea of new hope... but I also want Sam to work out bad enough to buy into what the Jets are selling if they tell me they’re gonna try and fix Sam. I want that dream. We owe him one. 

If the Jets cut ties with Darnold because they think he sucks and the trade partner turns out to be the 49ers, whose coaching staff is made up of alleged offensive savants, maybe the Jets should weigh this decision more carefully. 

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2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

In concept i agree, who doesn’t want multiple 1st rounders in multiple years.  In reality, we know that it’s hard to be in good position to draft qbs without trading up.  And with better talent and a more competent coaching staff, the jets probably won’t be picking 2nd or perhaps even top 5.  So as has been written here, there’s a good chance that if darnold busts (again), the jets will need to burn this additional draft capital to move up to take next year’s wilson.  And lastly, there’s always an undercurrent of a bad news bearsesque ‘wait ‘till next year’ among jet fans.  We’re terrified that if we blow our load and take our shot now, this year, and it doesn’t work, we’re screwed for all eternity, yet that’s the only way we’re ever getting out of this 10 year purgatory we’ve been in.

 

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I get it.  I just have this feeling that the addition of Saleh and his staff is enough to get this team near ~6-11/7-10, which then leaves you in the awkward situation of needing to pay Sam (who I don’t think will turn it around enough to warrant a long term commitment) or trade up (ughhh).  That’s primarily where I see our respective potential  scenarios clashing.

I guess I just don’t see the path to +.500 with Darnold if he’s bad or injured. And the fact that there isn’t one elite, lock first overall pick at QB next year should make you less nervous about having pick #5 as opposed to pick #1. There is one elite prospect this year, and that’s Trevor Lawrence. Wilson had a great season during a year a large swath of teams opted not to play football at all, and good for him, but he’s been elevated by positional scarcity being even more scarce this year. Could he be great? Maybe. But hanging the franchise on his brittle little shoulders is a monolithic risk, and one the Jets shouldn’t feel any urgency to take.

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1 hour ago, Paradis said:

I know many of you are over Sam, and I understand.  I too love the idea of new hope... but I also want Sam to work out bad enough to buy into what the Jets are selling if they tell me they’re gonna try and fix Sam. I want that dream. We owe him one. 

We owe him one? To quote Don Draper, “that’s what the money is for.”

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1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Huh. I had you pegged for one of the JN’ers on the level. Not the kind that thinks it’s that easy to fool billion dollar teams while us MB posters figured it out no probs. 

also, teams called to inquire and we said not at this time. But maybe run your theory past the Easter Bunny and see what he says. 

Given the amount of people on here who still think the Jets aren't moving on from Darnold, I'd say many of us MB posters haven't figured out jack sh*t.

There are only two reasons why the Jets would put out that there is internal disagreement over what to do with Sam. One would be if they were looking to trade down in the draft, which would have already happened with San Fran if they were truly interested in doing so. The other is to boost Sam's value in a trade.

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8 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Given the amount of people on here who still think the Jets aren't moving on from Darnold, I'd say many of us MB posters haven't figured out jack sh*t.

There are only two reasons why the Jets would put out that there is internal disagreement over what to do with Sam. One would be if they were looking to trade down in the draft, which would have already happened with San Fran if they were truly interested in doing so. The other is to boost Sam's value in a trade.

Sorry dude but there is no chance you’ll get me to buy into any crackpot theory that on April 5 the Jets are still implementing stages of their mastermind plan to manipulate Darnold value.

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I know many of you are over Sam, and I understand.  I too love the idea of new hope... but I also want Sam to work out bad enough to buy into what the Jets are selling if they tell me they’re gonna try and fix Sam. I want that dream. We owe him one. 


He is a professional athlete and made 20 million dollars. No one owes him sh*t.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app
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18 minutes ago, J_Smith said:

We owe him one? To quote Don Draper, “that’s what the money is for.”

No, we don’t literally owe him anything. But that’s not what I meant. 

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Douglas hasn’t done much this offseason to address the OL.  It doesn’t matter who the QB is they will be running for their lives.  
 

This situation reminds me of 2006.  Everyone wanted Leinart and Reggie Bush.  The Jets took Ferguson and Mangold in the first round instead.  

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2 hours ago, Paradis said:

Huh. I had you pegged for one of the JN’ers on the level. Not the kind that thinks it’s that easy to fool billion dollar teams while us MB posters figured it out no probs. 

The New York Jets, the 6th most valuable NFL franchise, employed Mike Maccagnan at the most important organizational position for 5 years.

Money doesn't always buy intelligent GM's.  

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1 hour ago, NamathToCaster said:

You can't fix the fact that Sam has a low football IQ like his mentor Mark Sanchez.

Exactly.  Bill Walsh wouldn't be able to "fix" Sam Darnold.  

Slow processors cannot be fixed.  Period.

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6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The New York Jets, the 6th most valuable NFL franchise, employed Mike Maccagnan at the most important organizational position for 5 years.

Money doesn't always buy intelligent GM's.  

Touché... but we all know Darnold still being a Jet is not part of some fcking amateur hour ploy to wrestle a high pick out of a team 

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55 minutes ago, J_Smith said:

We owe him one? To quote Don Draper, “that’s what the money is for.”

But we do owe him one.  He will not turn 24 until June.  His first year - Spencer Long.  Enough said.  His second year - Ryan Kalil.  Enough said.  His third year - Chris Hogan and the rest of the gang.  We all saw it.

Personally, I would like to see at least one season with decent personnel before we throw away a 24 year old QB.  Unlike Watson, we own Sam.  He cost us the #3 pick and three second round picks to acquire him. 

We have so many other needs.  We are not making the playoffs next season with Wilson or anybody else.  We should add a sure thing in Sewell or trade down for a haul of picks and Chase, Pitts, Sewell, Smith, Waddle, etc.

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13 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Sam Darnold and Wilson are the same player it’s stupid to draft him.  Fields sure if you are desperate for a QB change.

100%. Keep Darnold, trade back, reevaluate next offseason. This is what will happen! 

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12 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

He's basically a combination of Patrick Mahommes, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, John Elway, Dan Marino and Joe Montena, so yea. 

No Tom Brady?  I mean these comparisons get a little ridiculous at times. At the end of the day this guy will be Wilson. Hopefully not Marc Wilson.

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6 hours ago, Paradis said:

Touché... but we all know Darnold still being a Jet is not part of some fcking amateur hour ploy to wrestle a high pick out of a team 

That was the “ploy” in keeping Jamal Adams, no? Mostly I think he’s still here because of a couple reasons:

1. Potential best-offer for Darnold getting better. Nobody’s offered up a good enough pick yet, and at least one team that may have floated a 2nd rounder as an idea never made a concrete/official offer & has since pulled back on that anyway. A team may not be offereing as much today, figuring they can trade up or land someone in the draft, but if a team’s last acceptable prospect is taken before their pick, then Darnold’s value to them goes up, and maybe he can squeeze a future 1 out of them - or package one of our future day-2 picks with Darnold for a future 1st. But those aren’t really likely trades until the draft is here, with so many QBs coming out in this class.

2. Potential best-offer for the #2 overall pick getting better. He’s also hanging onto Darnold just in case he gets blown away with an offer he can’t refuse for the #2 overall pick. Even on the minuscule chance that Wilson goes 1st and he’s unexpectedly sitting on the Lawrence pick; however unlikely, the only 100% odds are that it 100% cannot happen if he trades out of the slot before Jacksonville hands in their pick card.

Adding to the above is the other thing he’s got in his back pocket, which is that - thanks to the Adams trade - the Jets are not desperate for more draft picks in this draft. It’s just a guess of mine, but with 5 day 1-2 picks this month, even without trading down, I think he’d rather have a round higher pick next year than a round lower pick this year. Not only will the (theoretical) prospect level be higher but he’ll also have a better idea of what he really needs after Saleh’s first year with them. Plus there are only so many rookies any coach will want on the field this year as it is. 

Also since he’s not desperate for an extra day 2 pick in 2021, he can wait on it and first see how Wilson/Fields/etc look in OTAs/minicamp before Saleh decides, OK the rookie’s clearly our week 1 starter

It’s impossible to know what future offers will come in, but ultimately I still expect a QB at #2. We’ll see soon.

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19 hours ago, BettyBoop said:

If Your HC and OC Are Telling You They Can Fix Darnold, Then You...

Do as your HC wants you to. I can't believe this dumb question is even being asked? Not you in general Mr. Boop, but the question overall. It is psychotic stupidity to tell your brand new HC that "you're going to get what I give you and you have no say" and simply ignore his input. That's a GM that already has one foot out the door. The best thing ANY executive can do is trust the guys he has hired. ANY good executive wants to give his guy the tools that he needs to succeed. Just like any good HC wants to put his players in position to do what they do the best. So I'll GUARANTEE you as JD is apparently a good executive, that he's going to try to give Robert Saleh everything he could possibly want or need. If that means keeping Sammy? Then that's EXACTLY what's going to happen.

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Again though, do we have any reporting that says Saleh doesn't want Wilson? Or just that he could fix Darnold if need be? Those things aren't mutually exclusive. It's possible to think both are options. I could understand all the melodrama if someone told me Saleh didn't want a rookie QB. Otherwise, this comes down to a new HC saying "whatever you want, boss".

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If we can get a haul like Miami did we should trade out of the No. 2 pick.  We should also be prepared to either trade Sam or cut him at some point if he continues to struggle and we don't want to tag or sign him.  

The team needs more talent.   If we can get a late 2 or early 3 for Sam dump him now and sign Mullens or some other cannon fodder for a year.   We might get a shot to draft Mills in the third or 4th round.  He might well be as good as anyone else in this draft class. 

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9 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

To me it’s Sam or Fields shouldn’t be another option.

Wait, wait....what happened to "In Joe we trust"? Now we added "...unless he picks a qb I don't trust"? We all have our favorite, but I'm backing the qb that (probably) gets picked by JD 2 weeks from Thursday. If that's Wilson, great. If that's fields, fine. 

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20 hours ago, neckdemon said:

really? so you hire a highly touted head coach and OC and then you laugh in their face and go against their wishes on who they want at qb? that would be pretty dumb

I don't believe it.  Mike Shanahan says hello.  

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3 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

 

Do as your HC wants you to. I can't believe this dumb question is even being asked? Not you in general Mr. Boop, but the question overall. It is psychotic stupidity to tell your brand new HC that "you're going to get what I give you and you have no say" and simply ignore his input. That's a GM that already has one foot out the door. The best thing ANY executive can do is trust the guys he has hired. ANY good executive wants to give his guy the tools that he needs to succeed. Just like any good HC wants to put his players in position to do what they do the best. So I'll GUARANTEE you as JD is apparently a good executive, that he's going to try to give Robert Saleh everything he could possibly want or need. If that means keeping Sammy? Then that's EXACTLY what's going to happen.

Not at all true. If it was teams would almost never pick rookie contracts. Reality is that it is the GMs job to balance short term goals and long term plans. The Jets are going to take his desires into account but starting with a new QB is an organizational decision. The head coach will always want the veteran and another pick option for the most part. But I think this report is BS because it was all smiles at the Pro Day

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13 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Not at all true. If it was teams would almost never pick rookie contracts. Reality is that it is the GMs job to balance short term goals and long term plans. The Jets are going to take his desires into account but starting with a new QB is an organizational decision. The head coach will always want the veteran and another pick option for the most part. But I think this report is BS because it was all smiles at the Pro Day

This. The hope is that the desire of the two coincide - and thus that they both know what they're doing - but ultimately the decision rests with Douglas, since it's his ass if the roster sucks.

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without reading the rest of the replies, there is only 1 right answer here...which is...they have to all be on the same page before even getting into this relationship. if the implication is that joe douglas and the coaches are divided on the QB, we are all screwed much worse then any of us thought.

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without reading the rest of the replies, there is only 1 right answer here...which is...they have to all be on the same page before even getting into this relationship. if the implication is that joe douglas and the coaches are divided on the QB, we are all screwed much worse then any of us thought.

Yep. They've probably...or at least they had better have...discussed this issue to death in interviews before Saleh was hired. If they're not aligned on this, the draft is moot. Like I said earlier, this is drumming up drama for clicks.
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2 hours ago, RVAJet815 said:

Wait, wait....what happened to "In Joe we trust"? Now we added "...unless he picks a qb I don't trust"? We all have our favorite, but I'm backing the qb that (probably) gets picked by JD 2 weeks from Thursday. If that's Wilson, great. If that's fields, fine. 

I feel the Darnold camp will accept it if Joe decides to move on with a rookie and support that decision but if Joe decides to stick with Sam I'm not sure the Wilson/fields camp will not take it so well and there will be calls for joes head.

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